As promised, I want to round off my pieces on the Salisbury case by looking at what I consider to be the major issues and flaws with the case presented to the public by the British Government and the Metropolitan Police, as well as the role played by the mainstream media. I have chosen 10 major points (not in any particular order), although there are many more issues than these.
1. Verdict First; Investigation Afterwards
I was bound to be interested in this case from the off, since it took place in the city where I reside, just a few hundred yards from my home. But what really sparked my interest into writing about the case for so long, was the response of the British Government. Within 48 hours of the incident, before the investigation had properly begun, and before any of the facts of the matter had been established, certain Government ministers were already pointing the finger of blame at the Russian state. Too quick. Something’s up.
Then on 12th and 14th March, little more than a week after the incident, and still with almost no facts of what actually happened having been established by investigators, the British Prime Minister, Theresa May, not only formally accused the Russian Government in the House of Commons, but also announced a series of responsive measures. Much too quick. Something’s definitely up.
So quick were the accusations and verdict, that anyone interested in understanding the truth of what happened, rather than making blithe, fact-free assumptions, could not fail to have had their suspicions aroused.
There are three things to note about this.
The first is that the idea of reaching a verdict before an investigation puts the British Government firmly in Alice in Wonderland territory. Quite apart from being plainly ludicrous, it also meant that the investigation was both politicised and prejudiced right from the start. The possibility of an impartial investigation was dead in the water just a week or so after the incident, and it was the British Government that killed it off. One can’t help but wonder whether that was the very point they were hoping to achieve.
The second issue with their reckless accusations is seen in their paltry response to what they say happened. You might think that this is a ridiculous statement to make, given that the response included the expulsion of diplomats, not only in Britain but also in a number of other countries. But it absolutely is not. What is alleged is that a chemical weapon was used, by a foreign Government, on the territory of Britain. Moreover, it is also alleged that the two suspects allegedly left at least one of their two bottles of “Novichok” lying around in the city (yes two bottles – see point 5 below), the contents of which was apparently enough to kill thousands, if not tens of thousands of people.
If this is what really happened, I would expect a rather more robust response than the expulsion of a few diplomats. I would expect the expulsion of all diplomats, the closure of the Embassy, and pretty much any and every measure possible short of a declaration of war. Basically, I would expect everything those folks at the “Integrity Initiative” were calling for back in 2015!
As it was, the actual response was pathetically inadequate to the charge being made, namely that the Russian Government was responsible for the use of a chemical weapon on the streets of a British city, which was left there to potentially kill thousands of innocent people. The feeble nature of the “response” to what could have been considered an act of war is, in my view, a big clue that those making the accusations and taking the responsive measures do not really believe the story they have told, and that there was an awful lot of theatre going on.
But the third, and by far the most important point about the British Government’s initial accusations, is this: the accusation and verdict came over two weeks before the door handle theory was first mooted, and over three weeks before it was officially confirmed as the place of poisoning (on 28th March). This is VERY important.
In his only interview on the subject, the CEO of Porton Down, Gary Aitkenhead, stated that the organisation he heads was not able to identify the origin of the substance used. To do so, he said, required “other inputs,” some of them intelligence-based, that the Government had access to.
So what were these intelligence-based inputs? We have no need to speculate. This is what a Foreign Office spokesperson said of the reasoning behind the accusations:
“As the Prime Minister has set out in a number of statements to the Commons since 12 March, this includes our knowledge that within the last decade, Russia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents — probably for assassination — and as part of this programme has produced and stockpiled small quantities of novichoks.”
As an aside, if this were really the case, then the British Government had an obligation to inform the OPCW of their intelligence, especially since the OPCW had declared in November 2017 that Russia had eliminated its entire stock of chemical weapons. So why did they not?
But the claim made by the spokesperson presents a glaring problem. What was this knowledge that “Russia has investigated ways of delivering nerve agents”? The answer was of course subsequently given to us: the infamous alleged FSB manual, which apparently included details of how to deliver nerve agents via door handles. Yet if this is the case, it gives rise to the following question:
If the British Government came to the conclusion that the Russian Government was behind the attack by 14th March, and if this was based in part on the existence of intelligence showing the delivery of nerve agents via door handles, why was the door handle not identified as a possible place of poisoning until more than a week later, and only officially confirmed on 28th March?
That question will never be answered, of course, because to do so would … all together now … “compromise national security.” There is, however, a quite plausible explanation, but you can probably work that out for yourselves.
2. CCTV, CCTV everywhere, but not a clip to see
It is a curious fact about what was almost certainly the biggest police investigation in British history, that the amount of CCTV footage shown to the public by the police of events on 4th March totals less than one minute. However, it should be noted that even this footage was only aired in November — more than eight months after the event —, and was very obviously highly selective in terms of fixing certain thoughts in people’s minds and excluding others. Let’s just say that it was more interesting for what it didn’t show than for what it did.
It is an even more curious fact that not one second of footage has ever been shown of the Skripals on that day, unless you include a few seconds of a car driving along a couple of roads.
Curiouser still, the only bit of CCTV footage of “the Skripals” that was released, showing them walking through Market Walk at 15:47, turned out not to be the Skripals at all. You might say that it turned out not to be anyone at all, since the footage was ridiculously grainy, the couple impossible to identify, and the pair in question, who the media and the police said were the Skripals, have been quietly forgotten about, as if they never were, even though they are almost certainly persons of interest in the case. Remember, you never saw them.
What should we make of this?
The response I have sometimes received when pointing this out is that the police have no obligation to show any CCTV footage in public. They are the ones investigating, and they need not do anything for the benefit of armchair sleuths. Fair enough. But then nor does any reasonable person have any obligation whatsoever to believe that they have been carrying out a genuine and impartial investigation. Why so?
Simply because on numerous occasions, the Metropolitan Police appealed for members of the public to come forth with information about what they may have seen on that day, and yet they steadfastly refused to let the public see any images of the two main people involved in the case, Sergei and Yulia Skripal. The public still don’t know what they were wearing on that day, or the colour of Yulia’s hair.
Ordinarily, when a police force appeals for members of the public to come forward with information, if there is CCTV footage that is relevant to the case, and which might help to jog people’s memories, it will be shown. Obviously. But not in this case. Instead, the Salisbury public were asked to wrack their brains to try and remember whether they may or may not have seen anything of interest, but without so much as being allowed to see a single second of what Mr Skripal and his daughter were wearing that day.
Yet such footage does exist. For example, there exists what has been described to me personally as “real clear footage” of Mr Skripal feeding ducks near the Avon Playground with some local boys at 13:45, with Yulia Skripal standing nearby carrying a red bag. Why has this not been aired? Remember, the Metropolitan Police allege that the pair were poisoned almost an hour before this, at his home, and so there can be no “reasons of national security” for not showing it, can there? Oh but there is. You see, that particular piece of footage blows a gaping hole in the poisoning by door handle explanation, which would immediately become obvious to all if it were ever aired in public (see point 6 below for more details). Which is why you will probably never see it.
3. Don’t ask any hard questions — you’re a journalist
The Salisbury poisonings show that the idea that Britain has a properly free press is dead. When I say free press, I am not talking about the ability and willingness of the media to print salacious gossip and pointless tittle tattle about celebrities, which they seem to excel at. No, I’m talking about the will and ability to hold the authorities to account on issues which those authorities would rather they were not challenged on. That, in my understanding, is the essence of a free press and one of the things that marks out free countries from tyrannies.
Right from the beginning of this case, three things were very apparent about the media response:
Firstly, despite the fact that there was deep scepticism in the public about the narrative that was being touted (this could be seen by scrolling to the bottom of articles on the case, where you would find comment after comment often ridiculing the official line), not one mainstream media organisation was prepared to ask the obvious and most basic questions that needed to be asked. True, there were some notable and noble individual exceptions, such as Mary Dejevsky writing in the Independent and Simon Jenkins in the Guardian. But other than the faint glimmer of light here and there, no media organisation in Britain was either able or willing to question the claims being made by public officials, even when they were nonsensical and riddled with holes.
Secondly, no media organisation was prepared to defy the Government when DSMA notices were slapped on the case, especially in relation to Mr Skripal’s Salisbury handler, and the connection he had to Christopher Steele, author of the “Trump Dossier”. And in case anyone is inclined to defend them by saying that it would have been a huge risk for them to defy the Government, well that is one thing, but it certainly does not excuse the fact that they all then fell into line, refusing to ask any of the sorts of questions that proper journalists should have been asking.
Thirdly, many of these organisations were prepared to report one set of “facts” on one day, only to report an entirely contradictory set of “facts” on another, without so much as an acknowledgement that this is what they had done. Many of them simply ignored their own reporting, even on the occasions when it was accurate, and instead went with the “new reality” put forward by officials. Memory Holes are clearly a fundamental part of the office equipment in these so-called news organisations! Here are three such examples:
Firstly, all media organisations reporting on the case in the first week or so stated that the Skripals went to Zizzis restaurant followed by the Mill pub. This was based on their own interviews with numerous witnesses, and such is the number of people who corroborated this order of things that there can be no doubt that it is correct (this is more fully discussed in point 7 below). Yet when the Metropolitan Police published its timeline on 13th March, updated on 17th March (and since disappeared from its website), it had the order the other way around. What did those same media organisations do when they saw their own interviews and reports summarily dismissed with no evidence presented as to why this was so? Why, they completely ignored it and duly began reporting the new reality. Of course. That’s just what journalists do, isn’t it?
Secondly, it was reported in a number of places on 25th March, such as (The Mirror, The Mail and Metro for instance), that Sergei Skripal had been feeding ducks next to the Avon Playground (this is in The Maltings, about 50 yards from the bench). Crucially, these reports said that he had given bread to some local boys. The Sun then followed this up on 28th March, with an interview with the parents of one of the boys. This is one of the most significant occurrences of that day, and yet after The Sun piece appeared, to my knowledge no mainstream media organisation has reported on it, and the Metropolitan Police have never mentioned it in their timeline. Perhaps there’s a DSMA Notice — Duck’s Shan’t be Mentioned Again — on the incident, but regardless of the lack of reporting, the fact is it DID happen, and IT IS one of the most compelling pieces of evidence that the Skripals were not poisoned at the place and the time that officials claim (see point 6 below for more details).
Thirdly, no media organisation has bothered to seriously question what Detective Sergeant Nicholas Bailey was doing, where he went, and at what time, even though official accounts have contradicted one another on this on numerous occasions. Mr Bailey has been a first responder at the bench (according to a number of officials, including Theresa May and Amber Rudd). Yet he was never even at the bench when the Skripals were there (according to Mr Bailey). He entered Mr Skripal’s house at around 5pm. Yet he didn’t enter it until around midnight. He was wearing a body camera with his uniform. He was plainclothes. He was wearing a forensic suit. He was admitted to hospital on the Sunday. He was admitted to hospital on the Monday. He was admitted to hospital on the Tuesday. Perhaps all three. He entered the house by the front door. He entered the house by the back door because he couldn’t get in the front.
In short, almost no two accounts of Mr Bailey’s actions and movements can be reconciled with one another, and yet the media either hasn’t noticed, or doesn’t care. Is there a DSMA Notice on him as well as the ducks (Detective Sergeant Movement Anomalies)?
All in all, it seems that although our vaunted “free press” is able and willing to comment on the attire and habits of irrelevant celebrities, it is neither able or willing to ask serious questions of officialdom when officialdom has decided that a certain issue can’t be questioned or is something to do with “National Security”. There’s a word for a press like that, but it ain’t “free”. And in terms of this case, it raises obvious questions about the veracity of the claims being made, since truth isn’t usually afraid of being held up to scrutiny.
4. Petrov and Boshirov — Spetsnaz-trained muppets?
Much was made of Petrov and Boshirov’s interview with RT’s Margarita Simonyan, and how their account somehow proved their guilt. What I find strange about this reaction is why those who pronounced case closed after the interview don’t apply the same level of critical analysis when it comes to the claims made against the men. For the record, I have little doubt that the account given by the pair was by no means the whole truth of what they were doing that day, but I also have little doubt that the claims made against them are also far from the truth.
Why do I not believe their account? Nothing to do with the snow and the slush, which was apparently enough to prove their guilt in the minds of many. On that point, their account was indeed correct. There was loads of snow in Salisbury on Saturday 3rd March, and I have photographs dating from that day which prove it. No, my incredulity at their story is primarily due to the fact that they arrived in Salisbury on 3rd March at 2:25pm, apparently expecting to go to Stonehenge. Well, unless they are particularly dense, this claim is absurd. In the winter, last admittance to the site is at 3pm. Anyone travelling from London to see the monument would surely have checked this out beforehand, which means that according to the two men, they gave themselves 35 minutes after departing from the train to wait for a bus, board it, and be driven there before closing time. No chance, regardless of whether it was or wasn’t open.
That being said, what of the case against them? Just as I find their “we were only tourists” line to be risible, I find the “they were deadly assassins” line to be even more absurd. Nothing about their movements on the two days in question indicate that they were carrying out an assassination attempt using the world’s most lethal nerve agent:
Firstly, they flew in on the same plane from Moscow, not from different locations as you would expect intelligence agents carrying out an assassination to do
Secondly, they then travelled, walked and stayed together at all times, not separately, which is again contrary to how we would expect people involved in such a mission to act
Thirdly, they apparently left their two bottles of “Novichok” unguarded in a dingy hotel all day on the Saturday, whilst they took themselves off to Salisbury
Fourthly, they drew attention to themselves on the Saturday evening by cavorting with a prostitute and smoking dope (which could have seen the police called in)
Fifthly, they made absolutely no effort whatsoever to hide themselves from CCTV
Sixthly, they were in Salisbury in daylight and allegedly carried out their crime in the middle of the day
Seventhly, they apparently did their deed with the Skripals in the house and the car parked outside in the drive (why not dose the car door handle?)
Eighthly, they did not get the first available train back to London after the alleged poisoning, but apparently decided to hang around, strolling across town after their alleged deed was done, taking pictures and looking in coin shops, at a time when — according to the allegations against them — they could well have expected a major police manhunt to begin
This may be many things, but it is absolutely not the actions of Spetsnaz trained GU assassins. But what of The Metropolitan Police’s specific claims against the two men?
Firstly, it should be noted that in The Met’s description of what the men did in Salisbury on 3rd and 4th March (now disappeared from their website), there was astonishingly little detail. There was in fact more detail about their movements in London than in Salisbury.
Secondly, The Met states that the two men were in Salisbury on Saturday 3rd March for what it calls reconnaissance. I find this laughable. Reconnaissance of what? Salisbury? There’s always Google maps. Mr Skripal’s house? Of course! So where is the evidence that they went there that day, and if they did, why didn’t they poison the door handle then, since Mr Skripal was out of the house at the time and it would have been far less risky to do it then, rather than when he was in the house. Besides, the men stated that they spent most of the time in the station café, a quite specific claim that could easily be debunked if false.
But the biggest claim made by The Met, and in my view the most misleading of all, is this:
“CCTV shows them in the vicinity of Mr Skripal’s house.”
This was confirmed by Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon, who stated on the BBC Panorama programme, Salisbury Nerve Agent Attack: The Inside Story:
“What the CCTV shows is the two suspects on the way to Christie Miller Road. On the way to the Skripals home.”
Oh no it doesn’t. The CCTV referred to (of the two men on the Wilton Road at 11:58 on Sunday 4th March) does not in fact show them in the vicinity of the Mr Skripal’s house, and nor does it show them on the way to Christie Miller Road. What it actually shows is the two men around 500-600 yards from Mr Skripal’s house, on a completely different road, and not looking at all as if they are interested in crossing the road to get to Christie Miller Road, either via Montgomery Gardens or Canadian Avenue (I’m very grateful to Brendan, one of the commentators on this site, who has put together a fuller explanation of this which you can see here).
For all I know, they may have gone to Christie Miller Road after being seen on the Shell garage CCTV. But this particular piece of footage of them in no way indicates this, and to suggest to the public that it does is simply misleading and disingenuous. Indeed, if this is the best evidence The Met has against the pair, it is worse than flimsy and would convince no jury with its wits intact.
So if not tourists and not assassins, what were they? Here is the one part of this piece when I indulge in a little speculation. To me it seems that the best explanation for their actions and movements is that they were couriers of some sort. That they were either taking something to Mr Skripal, or receiving something from him, or perhaps both. Their pattern of behaviour is far more in keeping with such a mission. I can well imagine the Russian intelligence services instructing two people involved in such a venture to act like tourists, to keep together, look normal, take pictures, don’t try to hide. What I can’t imagine is them instructing two people sent on an assassination mission with a deadly nerve agent to act in this way. That’d be really, really dumb, wouldn’t it?
5. The other bottle of “Novichok”
According to the explanation given by The Metropolitan Police (who incidentally still have not confirmed the “real names” of the two suspects as unearthed by the Atlantic Council-linked organisation, Bellingcat), Petrov and Boshirov brought two bottles of “Novichok” with them on a plane, left those two bottles of “Novichok” in their hotel room on Saturday 4th March whilst they travelled to and from Salisbury, had those two bottles of “Novichok” in their hotel room when smoking dope and using the services of a prostitute, took those two bottles of “Novichok” with them on a train on Sunday 4th March, used one of those bottles of “Novichok” to spray the oily substance on Mr Skripal’s door handle. And then what? Why, they marched across to the other side of Salisbury, dumped the other bottle of “Novichok” — the one they hadn’t used — in a bin, and either took the one they had used in their bag back to Moscow, or dumped it elsewhere.
Come on, come on, you say. The Met has never said all that.
Absolutely they haven’t. But it is the inescapable conclusion of their case. They never talk about the “other” bottle, because it is inconvenient to do so. It kind of messes things up. And yet, according to their own case, there must have been another bottle. How so? Because in one of his interviews, Charlie Rowley explicitly said that the box he found had a cellophane wrapping on it, which he had to cut open. Which means that it can’t have been the bottle that Petrov and Boshirov are alleged to have used on the door handle of 47 Christie Miller Road, can it? They can’t have taken the bottle apart, put it back in its box, cellophane wrapped it, and then dumped it in a bin over the other side of town, can they? Did you notice a cellophane-wrapping-machine-sized-lump sticking out of their backpack? No, me neither.
So what does The Met think? Can they explain why two men, apparently on a mission to kill Mr Skripal at the door handle of his house, brought two bottles with them (especially since they tell us there was enough in one bottle to kill thousands of people)? Can they explain why, after using one of the bottles, they then went over to the other side of town and dumped the fresh, unopened bottle of Novichok in a bin? And can they explain whether they think the men took the opened bottle with them back to Moscow, or left that in Salisbury too? I very much doubt whether The Met can explain these things, or that the British media is ever going to ask them.
And so we must apparently be satisfied with the explanation — implied by The Met’s claims — that the men inexplicably dumped an unopened bottle of “Novichok” in a bin, in cellophane wrapping, and did who knows what with the other.
Oh and something else that bothers me: can they tell us whether they ever found the gloves the two men used when allegedly doing their deed? I mean, they did use gloves, didn’t they? They must have done. Well, wouldn’t these have been dumped somewhere in a bush near Mr Skripal’s house? It’s unlikely that they would want to risk putting these potentially nerve agent-contaminated items back into their backpack. So where are the gloves, and where is the other bottle? Or is that a case of asking people who know what really happened to tell us how the thing that didn’t happen, happened?
6. Duck’s are still a’ dabbling, up tails all (and the boys are okay too)
I’ve mentioned the duck feed above, and I want to emphasise here just how crucial it is to the whole case. The Metropolitan Police allege that Mr Skripal and Yulia became contaminated with “Novichok” by touching the handle of his front door. This would have been sometime around 13:30, a few moments before his car was seen on CCTV in India Avenue and Devizes Road, driving towards Salisbury City Centre.
According to the official timeline (which has now conveniently disappeared from The Met’s website), they are said to have parked the car on the top floor of the Sainsbury’s car park at 13:40 and:
“At some time after this, they go to the Bishops Mill Pub in the town centre.”
At some time after? Bit woolly isn’t it? Yes it is, and that may be because there’s something missing. After parking his car, Mr Skripal and his daughter did not go to the pub or restaurant, but took a little detour, across The Maltings, to the Avon Playground, where they fed ducks for a while.
As I mentioned in point 3, this incident was first reported on 25th March, and then subsequently in The Sun on 28th March. In those pieces, it was stated that during the duck feed, Mr Skripal shared his bread with some local boys, with one of them even eating a piece. The purpose of these articles was clearly to show just how callous those behind the poisoning were, since it could have led to the poisoning of these boys. But because none of the boys became ill in the slightest, inadvertently what these articles actually ended up showing is something else entirely.
When I first read those pieces, my assumption was that the incident had taken place after the Skripals had left Zizzis, and that they may even have taken some garlic bread from the restaurant with them. However, a parent of one of the boys confirmed to me that they had been shown “real clear” CCTV of the incident, and that the timestamp on the footage was 13:45. In other words, the incident was before the visit to either Zizzis or The Mill.
This is extremely significant. The table at Zizzis was taken away to be destroyed (destruction of evidence?) apparently because it was contaminated with nerve agent (although somehow the pair managed to enter through the door without contaminating it). And yet prior to this, Mr Skripal took pieces of bread in his hand, fed ducks with some, and gave other pieces to a group of young boys, one of whom ate a piece, but suffered no ill effects.
Three simple questions:
1. If Mr Skirpal was so contaminated that the table at Zizzis had to be destroyed, how come none of those boys were poisoned, particularly the one who ate the bread, since the duck feed happened before the visit to the restaurant?
2. Why is this incident absent from the Metropolitan Police timeline, despite the fact that they know it happened and when it happened?
3. Why have the media organisations that reported it not followed it up, especially given that it took over two weeks after the incident for the police to inform the parents of the boys?
The duck incident alone casts huge doubt on the idea that Mr Skripal’s hand was contaminated with “Novichok” prior to 13:45. As such, it calls into question the whole official narrative. Perhaps this is why it, along with many other events, has been disappeared down the Memory Hole.
7. It’s the wrong timeline
I mentioned above the timeline of events in Salisbury that day. There is a simple rule of thumb here, and it is this: if investigators cannot get the timeline right, you have every right to doubt that they have got other things right. If you were sitting on a jury, and the defence lawyers were able to show you that the police had not only missed important parts of the timeline out, but had in fact got the order of events wrong, you would be unlikely to convict, wouldn’t you? In fact, you would have a duty to not convict, since the prevalence of errors in the investigation would leave you with reasonable doubt about the case for the prosecution.
There are four basic problems with the Met’s timeline. Let’s look at them in ascending order of importance.
The first is that some of their timings are just plain wrong and — frankly — rather silly. For instance, according to The Met’s caption above the pictures of the two men coming into Gatwick Airport, they entered at 3pm. This is impossible, however, since the airplane they were on did not land until nearly 4pm.
The second is that some of their timings are inexplicably vague. For instance, in the timelines they released on 13th and 17th March (no longer on their website), the following was stated regarding Mr Skripal’s car on the morning of Sunday 4th March:
09.15hrs on Sunday, 4 March: Sergei’s car is seen in the area of London Road, Churchill Way North and Wilton Road.
So it was in three places at once? Why were they unable to be more specific, since the CCTV cameras would all have had timestamps?
I believe there was a reason for this, and once again it gives little confidence in the investigation. At the time that the initial timelines were issued, The Met issued appeals for information on the whereabouts of the Skripals that morning. The impression given was that the Skripals drove to the cemetery at around 9:15, and were then out for most of the morning, but their whereabouts was unknown.
Yet if you read the timeline carefully, and this order was also stated verbally by Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, and if you couple this with a little local geographical knowledge, a quite different picture emerges. Both in Mr Basu’s statement and in the timeline, the order given was this: London Road, Churchill Way, Wilton Road. But this is not travel from the home to the cemetery; rather it is the opposite: from the cemetery towards the house.
In other words, the Skripals did not go to the cemetery at 9:15 or thereabouts; they actually came back home from the cemetery at that time. But if that’s the case — and it is strongly implied by The Met’s order of roads — why were they appealing for information about what the pair were doing on that morning? I submit that it was known all along that they were in the house from about 9:15 onwards, yet the reason it was not cleared up is that it presented something of a problem in terms of the allegations against Petrov and Boshirov. If those allegations were true, the Skripals would have been at home at the time, with the car in the drive. If it seems absurd that the assassination should be carried out in broad daylight, then this scenario makes it all the more so.
The third problem with the timeline is one I have mentioned above — the missing Duck Feed — and so there is no need to repeat the details of that here.
The final error in the timeline, and in my opinion the most egregious of all, is the order of events regarding the Skripals’ visit to the Zizzis restaurant and The Mill Pub. As I mentioned above, all of the early media reports, which were compiled after interviewing witnesses, agree that the Skripals first visited the restaurant, then went on to the pub. Here is a selection of those reports:
“Sergei Skripal went for a drink with his daughter at 3pm at The Mill in Salisbury after eating at a Zizzi Italian restaurant. In the pub, they ordered two glasses of wine before Mr Skripal went to use the toilet. The witness, who did not want to be named, said that when he returned he appeared as if he was drunk. He said Mr Skripal and his daughter Yulia then left immediately without finishing their drinks.”
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/daily-mail/20180310/281625305816856“It is not clear when the Skripals were confronted, having left a branch of Italian restaurant chain Zizzi between 2pm and 3pm. After leaving the restaurant, they are thought to have gone to a nearby a pub called The Mill. They were then seen walking through a shopping precinct and found on a bench overlooking the Avon shortly after 4pm.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5473177/Woman-40s-taken-hospital.html“The Skripals had eaten lunch in Italian restaurant chain Zizzi in the centre of Salisbury on Sunday. They are believed to have left between 2pm and 3pm and gone to a nearby pub called The Mill before being found later on a bench overlooking the Avon.”
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/emergency-services-called-to-building-next-to-zizzi-restaurant-at-centre-of-russian-spy-poison-plot-a3784031.html“A witness told detectives he saw a man with a black mask covering his nose and mouth acting suspiciously around 3pm last Sunday. At the time Mr Skripal and Yulia were thought to be in the Mill pub a few yards away.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html“Witnesses have said that after eating at Zizzi’s restaurant they went to the Mill pub where Mr Skripal appeared unsteady on his feet, as if “drunk” – even though he had only ordered a single glass of white wine – suggesting the effects of the nerve agent were rapidly taking effect.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/10/poisoned-police-officer-not-hero-just-job/“Officers yesterday took CCTV from inside The Mill. They had gone into The Mill pub following a meal in a Zizzi restaurant.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5742937/cops-hunt-blonde-woman-seen-on-cctv-20-mins-before-ex-russian-spy-spy-sergei-skripal-and-daughter-yulia-were-poisoned/“Steve Cooper, who was at the Mill pub with his wife and dog for a couple of hours last Sunday afternoon, told the BBC he was outraged. Some of his friends, who had been in the pub at the same time and seen Mr Skripal head to the toilet, could not remember what they had been wearing that day, he added. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43362673
When was Mr Cooper in The Mill? Here’s what he said in an interview with ITV:
‘We’d been sitting on the very bench at around 3pm and then moved onto The Mill Pub and left there at 4:45pm where we saw the air ambulance.’”
https://www.facebook.com/itvnewsmeridian/videos/1699234906804241/“Mr Skripal and his daughter Yulia were believed to have been in Salisbury city centre from 13:30 GMT on 4 March. A witness told the BBC that he saw the pair in the Zizzi restaurant at about 14:00 GMT.”
http://web.archive.org/web/20180309174732/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43315636
There were other reports, but I trust you get the picture. Zizzis first, from about 2pm onwards; Mill second.
And yet for some inexplicable reason, the timeline released by The Met on 13th March, updated on 17th (no longer available on their website), reversed this order. Here is what it said:
13:40hrs: Sergei and Yulia arrive in Sainsbury’s upper level car park at the Maltings. At some time after this, they go to the Bishops Mill Pub in the town centre.
14.20hrs: They dine at Zizzi Restaurant.
15:35hrs: They leave Zizzi Restaurant.
On what basis has the cloud of witnesses been dismissed? What evidence does The Met have that those witnesses were wrong?
This is very serious stuff. An investigation that not only ignores the testimony of multiple witnesses, but without explanation gives an official version of reality that completely contradicts what these members of the public stated in all honesty is … oh what shall we call it? Orwellian? Yes, Orwellian will do, since in that great man’s dystopias, officialdom is always right — even when it is wrong and distorts and dismisses reality.
Quite simply, if investigators are prepared to leave crucial events out of their timeline, and mess with reality in others, as has been done, reasonable people not only have a right to disbelieve their conclusions, I would say they have a duty. Anything else is to invite the very future that Orwell taught us to fear.
8. The Impossible Door Handle
The theory that Mr Skripal and his daughter were poisoned at the handle of his front door is impossible. I do not use that word lightly, and nor do I use it because of any fancy of my own. Rather, I do it because the official version of events, which tries to establish the door handle as the place of poisoning, actually refutes itself.
Much of what I’m about to say is a summary of what I have set out in more detail back here. But the basic points are as follows.
“It’s very unique in its ability to poison individuals at quite low concentrations.” – Porton Down Professor Tim speaking about Novichok.
“The Russians called it Novichok. Thought to be 10X more toxic than any nerve agent created before or since.” – Jane Corbin.
“To kill a person, you need only 1mg. To be sure, 2mg.” – Vil Mirzyanov, who worked on the Foliant project.
“The Russians weaponised Novichok for the battlefield. The tiniest dose can be fatal.”– Jane Corbin.
“It’s difficult to say, you know, possibly into the thousands.” – Deputy Assistant Commissioner Dean Haydon when asked how many people could have been killed by the substance in the bottle.
This programme, which was clearly endorsed by The Met, since it featured the likes of Deputy Assistant Commissioner, Dean Haydon, wanted its viewers to know three things about “Novichok”: That it is extraordinarily deadly; that a dose of just 2mg is enough to produce certain death in a person; and that the two suspects had enough of the substance in their two bottles to kill 1,000s of people.
But the problem with this, of course, is that the people who allegedly became contaminated at the door handle, did not die. In fact, not only did they not die, but they spent the next few hours feeding ducks, eating a meal and going for a drink.
To square this particular circle, the BBC invited Mr Mirzyanov to give it his best shot. Here was his explanation:
“Maybe the dose was not high enough. Salisbury was rainy and muggy. Novichok breaks down in damp conditions, reducing its toxicity. It’s the Achilles Heel of Novichok.”
The first part of his answer is obvious nonsense. This is the same person who on the same programme claimed that just 2mg of “Novichok” is enough to be sure of killing a person. And given that Mr Skripal allegedly contaminated a number of places around Salisbury, including the table in Zizzis that apparently needed to be destroyed, we can be sure that had he been contaminated at the door handle, as the official line has it, the dose must have been far in excess of 2mg.
So it must be the damp conditions then? Er no. Not possible. Why? Well, I could point out that the “Novichok” would have been on the door handle for a maximum of 80 minutes (between 12:10pm and 13:30pm), and that during this time the weather was fine. The only thing it would have come into contact with would have therefore been the air, and it barely seems worth pointing out that it is beyond unlikely that a nerve agent apparently designed for the battlefield would degrade so quickly. And if it did, how likely is it that the chosen method of assassination would have been to spray such a substance on an exposed door handle in a country that is notoriously damp?
But there is something far more fundamental than this. Something that, as I say, makes the claim impossible. It is this: According to the Organisation for the Prevention of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), in a statement on 4th May:
“The samples collected by the OPCW Technical Assistance Visit team concluded that the chemical substance found was of high purity, persistent and resistant to weather conditions.”
So the BBC, backed up by officialdom, puts forth an explanation as to why the Skripals did not die, which is that the substance, of which 2mg is enough to surely kill someone, degraded so much in just 80 minutes due to the damp conditions that a dose far in excess of 2mg wasn’t enough to kill them. But cometh the OPCW, over 25,000 minutes later (on 22nd March), and what they apparently found was the same substance, but in a state of high purity and totally unaffected by weather conditions.
Do you now see the impossibility of this? The dose wasn’t too low. Mr Mirzyanov tells us just 2mg of the substance will surely kill. And it can’t have been degraded by the weather, because the OPCW found a substance that hadn’t been degraded by the weather.
There is no way of squaring this circle. No way of getting 2 + 2 to = 5 no matter how hard you try. It is impossible. Let me say that again, it is impossible. Let me repeat it one more time, just to make sure the point is made: The idea that Sergei and Yulia Skripal were poisoned by “Novichok” on the handle of his front door is IMPOSSIBLE.
9. The Silence of the Skripals
Yulia Skripal has been heard from a number of times. There were statements made in her name, there was the “interview” she did with Reuters, and there were the calls she made to her cousin, Viktoria. But all that stopped in late July, and in the last known contact she had with her cousin at that time, she apologised for having previously accused her of messing up her plans to return to Russia, saying that she now had access to the internet, and now understood everything.
Just pause there for a moment and think. Yulia Skripal wants to return to Russia? To the place where the people who ordered the attack on her father are in Government? Does she not understand what they did, and what they might do to her again if she were to go back?
Actually, one of my contentions is that she did not have any idea about what the British Government and Metropolitan Police were saying about the case in public until July. You can read a more detailed piece on why this is so here, suffice it to say that the only way to make sense of her rant at her cousin in early July, that she had messed up her chances of going back to Moscow by going on TV talk shows, and her subsequent apology later in July together with the comment that she had seen the internet and now understood everything, is that she wasn’t actually aware of what was being said in public before. Think about it: if the British authorities had told her she and her father had been poisoned by the Russian state, and that this had led to a huge international outcry, she can hardly have wanted to go back to Russia, and she can hardly have thought that her cousin was the reason she couldn’t return.
Anyway, since Yulia has not been seen or heard of since she “got the internet”, and since on many occasions she expressed the desire to return to her home, I’m afraid that until we hear otherwise, it is reasonable to conclude that she is not a free person.
But what about Sergei? Here, we have something even more interesting and obvious. When was the last time you saw Sergei? When was the last time you heard him? When was the last time you read a statement put out in his name? The answer to all three questions is you haven’t. He hasn’t been seen, nor heard from, nor so much as a statement put out on his behalf at any time since 4th March.
Isn’t this a tad strange? Yulia was allowed to speak. She was allowed to read out a pre-prepared statement to Reuters back in May. But not a peep from Sergei. Why not?
A big clue may well come from the BBC reporter, Mark Urban. In his book, he claimed that Mr Skripal was initially reluctant to accept that the Russian Government was behind the poisoning. He never got around to telling us whether Mr Skripal did eventually accept it, but I suspect not, since had he done so, I am quite sure that the authorities would have had him in front of the cameras, testifying to what had happened to him, essentially backing up the official story. But so far he has been silent.
But much more ominous, he has not been in contact with his ailing mother since before 4th March. We are talking about a man who was apparently in the habit of speaking to her once a week, and yet since March 2018, according to his niece, Viktoria, he has not contacted his mother even once. Why is this? If what happened to Mr Skripal is as the British authorities allege, what possible reason could there be for his not being in contact with his mother? It isn’t because his health won’t allow it. In a call to her cousin back in July, Yulia stated that although his voice was too weak to speak on the phone, he would be able to in a matter of days. And yet since then, nothing. Silence.
By itself, this of course proves nothing. Yet it is not by itself. It must be seen in the light of the other points made above. When we put it together with all those oddities, anomalies and impossibilities, I’m afraid that it looks suspiciously like the reason Mr Skripal hasn’t spoken to his mother, is that he is not allowed to. Like Yulia, until shown otherwise, it is reasonable to conclude that his silence is not a voluntary silence.
10. The lethal substance that can be treated with baby wipes
All the pre-2018 literature about the “Novichok” nerve agents leave us in no doubt about their toxicity. For instance:
“In 1982, the Soviets began a secret CW development program codenamed Foliant. The program had the apparent goal of developing new binary nerve agent weapons. Novichok has been described as a new toxic agent and it is very difficult to treat the poisoning (practically impossible; the toxicity was about ten times greater than VX agent).”
We even have the testimony of one of the substance’s creators, Vladimir Uglev (who is no friend of the current Russian Government, by the way), who gave the following account of what happened after he got a tiny amount of this agent on his hand:
“‘I rinsed my hands with sulfuric acid and then put them under tap water,’ he said, adding it was the only way to survive. Another researcher who was contaminated in 1987 died of multiple illnesses five years later [my emphasis].”
So the only way to survive is by taking action as drastic as rinsing your hands with sulphuric acid?
Now, remember in their report of 4th May, the OPCW said that the substance they found on the door handle of Mr Skripal’s house, which was apparently the same substance Mr Uglev got on his hands, was of “high purity”. When Mr Uglev got it on his hands, he knew he only had seconds or at the most minutes to wash it off — with acid — otherwise face certain death. And yet when Sergei and Yulia Skripal apparently got the same substance on their hands, nothing happened to them for hours and they went to feed ducks, eat a meal and go for a drink.
Can a rational person really believe that the substance Mr Uglev describes is the same one that apparently affected the Skripals? I don’t think so. And yet this is what those investigating the case want you to believe. This is odd, however, since Public Health England’s advice to Salisbury residents in March this year kind of gave the game away that it was not the same substance at all:
“Wipe personal items such as phones, handbags and other electronic items with cleansing or baby wipes and dispose of the wipes in the bin (ordinary domestic waste disposal) … Please thoroughly wash your hands with soap and water after cleaning any items.”
So the substance that one of its creators says needed to be washed off very quickly with sulphuric acid, and which another of its creators (Vil Mirzyanov) tells us that 2mg is enough to lead to certain death, can be dealt with by using baby wipes?
I’m sorry, but this is just bonkers. Imagine going back in time to pre-March 2018, and hearing an announcement that the armed forces were being protected against possible nerve agent attacks by being supplied with baby wipes. What would you have thought? You’d have thought that someone somewhere had lost the plot, wouldn’t you? And you’d have been right. Whatever those who were hospitalised on 4th March this year were poisoned with, it cannot have been the same substance that Mr Uglev describes, can it? And yet the official narrative says it was. Draw your own conclusions.
Conclusion
You will have noticed from the above that what I have not attempted to do, is to advance a theory of what happened on 4th March 2018. The reason for this is that I simply don’t know, and whilst I may have certain speculative ideas, I don’t know nearly enough to be certain of writing them down.
What I have done, is simply to take the claims made by the authorities, and subject them to the kind of scrutiny that I would have hoped our so-called free press might have done. And I believe that when a light is shone on these claims, the inescapable conclusion is that they are found wanting. They are full of holes, they don’t add up, and despite much trying, they can’t be made to make sense.
Even as I was finishing this piece off, yet another round of nonsense was unleashed; this time, the news that the roof of 47 Christie Miller Road (including the roof of the study) is to be taken off and replaced. Remember, we’re talking about a substance that can be cleansed with baby wipes. Remember, we’re talking about a substance that apparently breaks down after 80 minutes of exposure to the air. But 11 months later, it is again so deadly, that a whole roof needs replacing!
Of course the media is not bothering to ask the obvious questions about this action, such as:
How exactly could the roof timbers have become contaminated?
Who could have contaminated them? D.S. Bailey?
But why would he have been in the attic?
Why is the ceiling / roof in Zizzis not being replaced?
Why has the roof in The Mill not been dismantled?
What was really in the attic?
Obvious questions, yet none of them will be asked.
In conclusion, I think it abundantly clear that what we have been told about what took place on 4th March in the beautiful city of Salisbury is not, in fact, true. It is clear that something else happened, and much of what we have seen since then has been theatre and an attempt to cover up what actually took place. It is my earnest hope and prayer that the truth will soon be revealed.
“Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands far away;
for truth has stumbled in the public squares, and uprightness cannot enter.
Truth is lacking, and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey.
The Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no justice.”
(Isaiah 59:14-15)
Postscript: Some of the commenters on this site are setting up a new forum to continue sharing information on the case in the future. When that site is up and running, I will post a short piece pointing people towards it.
As I have said, it is my intention that this will be my last piece on the case. However, that comes with the caveat that if there are any other major developments, I may well decide to write about them. Amongst other things, I will probably also be writing from time to time about events and issues that may well be connected to the Salisbury case, such as the so-called Integrity Initiative, which the British media doesn’t seem to have heard about yet. But for now, That’s All Folks.
Hi all,
As there are now tons of comments on here, and as people are still commenting, and as it’s really, really long and difficult to navigate, I’ve set up a Shiny New Thread for you to make comments and to have a discussion:
http://www.theblogmire.com/shiny-new-thread/
Best wishes,
Rob
Thanks Rob,
I was starting to develop carpal tunnel.
Is The Hero Having A Laugh….He an MI5 Fraud!
I can’t think of an appropriate comment, so I won’t make one.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-wiltshire-47164044
“This Page has been temporarily frozen
Looks like we still need a few details from the page owner before we can get this Page up and running again. If you’ve already donated, don’t worry – your donation is safe. If you’d like to donate, please keep checking the Page for updates.”
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/det-sgt-nick-bailey
Ah ha, that other page seems to have been a scam.
This seems to be the correct JustGiving page:
https://www.justgiving.com/fundraising/nickbailey1772?utm_id=124
and dsnb published an update a couple of hours ago.
Could Porton Down stuff have been administered to Mystery Couple once
both had been administered to SDH so it would show in blood tests?
Porton Down antidote then administered after blood sample tests. BZ used
for initial bench area attack by Aggressive CIA Masked Couple.
Combined Operation By U.K.-U.S. prior Syria?
A Third Suspect? I taking this with a pinch of salt! We started with Seven GRU Agents
[One Female-Red Haired] This figure-count later varied so much I lost count.
Super Recognisers discovered a Chap named as Dangerous Gordon. Releasing a
rubbish heavily pixelated black-white photo image with his eyes blocked out?
Im sure Mr Bellingcrap would have discovered this Third Agent and Identified him as
his Investigation Skills are so much better than Met Police-U.K. Security Services and
Super Recognisers!
Yes another bit of BS on the day Theresa returns to Brussels.
Total Hogwash keeping Novihoax alive as Brexit goes down toilet!!
“Dangerous Gordon”.
Don’t you mean Flash Gordon?
Photo of Flash Gordon. I wonder if MI56 have seen this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flash_Gordon.png
He seems to be walking on water. Perhaps he’s been feeding the ducks.
You forgot the dark haired Romanian woman, or at least that was the number plates told The Mail.
Sergey Fedotov was the general director of the Russian Authors’ Society (RAO). The organisation that collect royalties for musicians and authors in Russia. Either ROA or Sergey had set up several property investment and management companies to hold the organisations property.
What better way for the Russian Mafia to launder money and transfer it out of Russia and into safe property investments in the UK than by claiming it was royalty earnings.
And Fedotov could travel to the UK regularly to supervise the ROA property investments and renovations. He reportedly spent 2 million pounds renovating Castle Graig in Scotland. He could get ROA associates into the UK each year too maybe and there names could have even been Rus and Alex?
One discrepancy though, earlier court case stories have Fedotov’s age today as being 42 while all the Skripal third man spy recent stories have his age as 45.
There are some things that are suspicious about Sergey Fedotov. He said that in 2014 his son was threatened by a business partner. Which dangerous oligarch was he in business with I wonder?
The main group investigating his embezzlement charge was the FSB.
And he was sentenced to 18 months jail but magically go parole after just 6 months in jail. Letting him out at the end of 2017, just two months before the reported Skripal poisoning.
He also had an expensive apartment in London so he could have stayed there or in anyone of his other houses after March 4th but MI56 would know that of course.
Not jumping to any conclusions, just food for thought.
No food for thought. For instance, there are an intelligence agent John Williams and a businessman John Williams. And so what? Having the same name, which is widespread in certain country, does not make the persons with that name the same persons.
The three agents:
No doubt we will get a CCTV still shot and the revelation of the real name of the third man.
In September, the Telegraph stated the existence of this chap.
It does raise several issues:
1) If the three have made March trips to the UK on 2016, 2017 and 2018, then they must have been “known” to the UK security forces. After all, visa submissions include fingerprints. These trips were probably observed by MI5/6.
2) Nobody would believe that the planning to attack Skripal would take three years. But wait, that is exactly what the MSM will claim.
3) The UK does a very poor job of determining who is leaving the country. Sergey could be anywhere. However, the spin that he remained in the UK now gives HMG a crutch for the second Novichok bottle, and the delayed discovery of this by Charlie.
“Third agent remained in Salisbury to watch SDH and then struck with second dose in the bins which Charley found,”
Is this a big Brexit day?
We must analyze where the Fedotov story comes from !
This is an Telegraph article on October 10, 2018 :
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/10/10/revealed-name-third-russian-agent-sent-gru-target-sergei-skripal/
The source was Fontanka :
https://m.fontanka.ru/2018/10/10/124/
Fontanka closely worked together with Bellingcat to track the identities of Petrov and Boshirov.
We are safe to say that the whole story comes from the Integrity Initiative armoury.
Their odour signature is about the whole Skripal case
Liane, all true.
But I can see this one dripping out with a Bellingcat revelation as to the read ID, passport application etc., just like Rus and Alex.
As I mentioned, no one in the MSM will wonder about the UK Moscow Embassy’s role in visa applications, similar trips by the three super agents in prior years, Border Agency not tracking departing visa holders, why and how someone with a checked bag changing flight plans at the last minute is not a security flag, why this comes to light 11 months after the event,etc etc Does not make the UK look weak?
Yes, Theresa May tries to convince the EU to agree to a different deal.
I would say, no chance. Despite all the cant, EU countries are interested in BREXIT as companies relocate to the continent (they are there for the market, not the production)
“If the three have made March trips to the UK on 2016, 2017 and 2018…”
According to the Blogmirer Patrick Mahony, who attended the presentation of Mark Urban’s book back in October, Urban said that Fedotov and Boshirov (Chepiga) came together to the UK on the same dates in March in 2016 and 2017, without Petrov (Mishkin). According to the Russian website Fontanka.ru, Fedotov came to the UK in March in 2016, 2017 and 2018. Fontanka did not say “the same dates” and did not say that Fedotov came to the UK with someone else. However, Fontanka said that Fedotov and Petrov travelled together to Czech Republic in January-February 2014.
Alexandr Skripal was alive in March 2016 and 2017. March is his birthday.
He was the same age as these guys. Friends from school?
That’s a bit of a stretch, anidea: Sasha was born in 1974 and iirc PnB are even now only around 40 (mind you, with fake IDs they could be older or younger … ).
Surely the third Russian isnt the ‘Sergey Fedotov’, the Russian embezzler, who owned three or four houses in Brighton and Castle Grant in Scotland, whose ex wife sold works of art and antiques from the houses, including Salvador Dali statues and took some of it to Switzerland. Fedotov hid the houses in his ex wife and her father’s names.
I wonder if Sergei Skripal could have been mixed up in this scheme somehow. Skripal was reportedly poisoned not long after Sergey Fedotov got out of jail in Moscow?
If Skripal wasn’t involved in Fedotov’s houses scam, its very unlikey that an assasin would use such a high profile name, the name of a now Russian criminal with ties to the UK as a false name to enter the UK.
Curiouser and curiouser
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/12/russian-tycoons-4m-war-with-wife-over-brighton-homes-dali-sculpt/
From a discussion with Paul below. Paul assumes that only a state laboratory like Porton Down could design new variants of Novichok.
So why design new variants to assassinate a spy?
My assumption – to give OPCW a reason to get involved. On June 27, 2018 there was a vote in OPCW enabling the organisation to put blame on perpetrators. Media quoted Syria and Skripal as reasons for the vote.
3 days later Dawn Sturgess went to hospital. OPCW certified that she was killed by the same toxic substance that was used in Skripal’s case.
However, Borishov and Petrov were out of the country and rubbish bins emptied a long time ago.
So now, a third Russian is rumoured to have taken his luggage out of the plane and stayed in Britain. You bet that this will be extended to the idea he was responsible for the perfume bottle.
Talking about Syria, Britain seems to have kind of stepped back in the aftermath of Salisbury
From September
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-thanks-turkey-for-longstanding-role-in-tackling-north-west-syria-crisis
From August
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/20/britain-to-stop-funding-free-syria-opposition-as-assad-closes-in
From January this year
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article/breaking-britain-withdraws-half-of-its-warplanes-from-syria-iraq/
I am sure this is in some way connected with the fake ‘attacks’ in Syria. As I understand it, this isn’t a ‘novichok variant’ it is being classified as a new category of agents.
The issue I have been pondering is ‘why would they use a new and unknown agent, knowing that they would then immediately have to seek to ban it?’
I suspect that it is because it doesn’t work very well. It couldn’t be properly weaponised so they (i.e. UK/US) used it in Salisbury and tried to blame Russia – which was why ‘Stupid May’ was so quick out of the starting blocks in blaming Russia and why the UK refused to allow Russia to assist in the investigation.
So the next question is why are there two “new agents”?
And why is decontamination so extensive – especially in a place where Skripal “highly likely” never went, ie. Sergeant Bailey’s house.
Here are the OPCW January 14, 2019, meeting minutes:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm6202%28e%29.pdf
Reuters reported:
“Monday’s OPCW decision was confidential and no other details were released.”
Whatever HMG is up to, it is not ‘decontamination’.
TASS spills it
http://tass.com/politics/1039903
“A spokesman for Russia’s mission to the OPCW said Russia “voiced a number of serious critical remarks concerning the proposal” on adding Novichok-type agents to Chemical Weapons Convention schedules
“
PD isn’t allowed to test nerve agents on soldiers any more. Perhaps they thought it would be useful to test a new nerve agent on an old spy.
I cannot remember for sure but thinks the plane that was illegally searched was the one bringing the 2 to Uk allegedly…or the one they exited on….or was it the same plane coming and going?????
Tonight’s Brain Teaser
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/06/third-skripal-hitman-remained-uk-salisbury-novichok-nerve-agent/
The Third Man (Fedotov) who accompanied the Russian Assassins to Britain unchecked his luggage off a flight to Russia on the 4th March.
He arrived in the UK on the same flight as the two assassins and was booked on the same flight as them to return to Russia on the 4th March but he changed his plans.
His passport number is known yet their are no CCTV images of him.
How is it possible that there are no CCTV images of him?
So there is a Russian terrorist that may be still on the loose in the UK, he may have more bottles of Novichok in his possession but we are not allowed to know what he looks like.
“A source told The Telegraph: “It is not clear why Fedotov did not board the flight. But at the last minute he checked himself and his bags off it. He could still have been running around Britain.”
We need to know more. Did he stay in the same hotel as PnB? Did he smoke dope? Was he entertained by a prostitute? This is all vital information.
The trio made the same trip in March in 2016 and 2017.
Is Operation Dagger an annual event?
The rag I read said it was a Russian news source that the Telegraph picked up.
Shows how good the UK border agency are doing.
That outbound Gatwick manifest must have been checked months ago.
What’s going on?
To Liane
Just in case you didn’t see my reply, did anyone manage to establish the frequency of the bin collections where Charlie is supposed to have found the “perfume”?
Commercial waste collections are subject to individual contract terms but the frequency is weekly. If the bins fill faster than usual, extra collections are arranged by phone on a case by case basis.
What you cannot do is have a bi-weekly or monthly collection period.
Thanks Paul, that basically puts an end to the theory that Charlie found the “perfume” in the bin since it had to be dumped there on 4th March and there would be CCTV evidence.
Only if you assume that one and the same party dropped the novichok in March. Not if you allow for the possibility that a second party dropped the perfume bottle or one party had second thoughts.
Thanks for sharing the article, Peter. I missed it.
https://www.explicite.info/articles/3145
There are some interesting points in the article :
1. Quote : “That day, I stayed at Charlie’s and Dawn was there. I left them in the morning because it was my son’s birthday. I came back about two hours later and there I saw ambulances. Charlie was crying and Dawn was on a stretcher being given oxygen. She did not look … alive“, recalls Sam Hobson. (End Quote)
It’s obvious that Sam has stayed with Charlie and Dawn over night in Muggleton Road 9.
Quote : Mr Hobson stayed with Ms Sturgess at John Baker House while she dyed her hair blonde and they later went to Mr Rowley’s home in Amesbury.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/992439/novichok-police-witnesses-suspect-photo
But maybe there were more people over night in Muggleton Road 9 :
Craig Pattenden, 38, and Sam Hobson, 29, were with them when they took a bus from Salisbury to Amesbury on Friday evening. Sam, from Amesbury, said: “She found some sunglasses on Friday and started wearing them.
“On the bus back she was saying to me and Craig, ‘Do you like my new sunglasses? I found them’. I think it was in the park.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6737081/novichok-victim-dawn-sturgess-contaminated-sunglasses/
Craig Pattenden and Sam Hobson… but may be more :
Neil Basu on July 8, 2018
“You may also be aware that we recovered the bus upon which they travelled on Friday night, 29 June, as well as a red Transit van that Charlie travelled in on Saturday 30 June.
Tests on the bus have shown no trace of the nerve agent. The van is still undergoing examination, but four other men who had been in the van prior to its seizure by police have all been contacted and preliminary tests show that they are clear and have no symptoms.
Officers have also identified and spoken to a number of people who we know were with Dawn and Charlie before they became ill.“
http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-from-assistant-commissioner-neil-basu-national-lead-for-counter-terrorism-policing-in-the-uk-313952
Craig Pattenden and Sam Hobson and four other men in a red Transit van …
What has really happended at Muggleton road 9 in the night before Dawn and Charlie felt ill ?
A party with drug use ? How many guests were still there when Dawn had the first symptoms ?
Why did Sam Hobson left in the morning and came back about two hours later ? I don´t buy the story of his son’s birthday.
Fact is that Sam and Charlie are scared. Has it to do with the guests ?
2. Quote : Then back at home, it was Charlie who started to have symptoms.
“He started feeling a little weird, he told me he thought he had been poisoned. Then he started accusing me and even trying to strangle me. It was not like him to have that kind of attitude, I managed to calm him down, but then he started swinging back and forth and his eyes were bloodshot. ” Sam called an ambulance and after being examined at home for two hours by doctors in protective gear, Charlie was taken to the hospital. (End Quote)
Sam never before mentioned that Charlie was trying to strangle him. Sam always told a story like this :
“He was sweating loads, dribbling, and you couldn’t speak to him. He was making funny noises and he was rocking backwards and forwards and there was no response from him, he didn’t even know I was there. It’s like he was in another world, hallucinating.”
A panicked Hobson called an ambulance at around 1430 GMT.
https://www.nation.co.ke/news/world/UK-nerve-agent-attacks-couple/1068-4649136-tndvaez/index.html
„Sam called an ambulance and after being examined at home for two hours by doctors in protective gear, Charlie was taken to the hospital.“
This too was never mentioned before. Why examine Charlie for two hours ?
3. Quote about Sam Hobson : His brown hair on his forehead and his big blue eyes reveal a young man who looks anxious and not quite comfortable. He has to wear a splint for his back after being hospitalized for three weeks. “An infection,” he says, wondering if his presence with Charlie and Dawn on the day of the poisoning has anything to do with it. (End Quote)
No UK media ever wrote about Sam´s illness !
Peter, you wrote : „Sam too was admitted to hospital suffering from the same bug, his ate away at his spine and it had to be reconstructed. Charlie was told his meningitis had nothing to do with the “Novichok” (how do they know that?) and Sam was told his illness was an unfortunate coincidence.“
Where does this additional information come from ? Did Charly tell you ?
4. Quote : Some sources close to the case say that Charlie was offered help: detox, special protection but he apparently refused because he was paranoid about being arrested by the police because he possessed drugs. (End Quote)
Where the drugs found by the police in Muggleton Road 9 ? What drugs ? Fentanyl ?
Does the Met use this find to put pressure on Charlie ? „Tell what we want you to tell, or…“
5. Quote Peter Beswick : Sam was not checked out for contamination until 2 weeks later when he gave a thumb prick blood test. (End Quote)
Peter, do you have a source for not checked until two weeks later ?
It would be a very gross negligence, because they knew that Sam had close contact with both victims. I only found this :
Mr Hobson described frantically calling an ambulance for his friend…
He has not been tested for possible exposure but said authorities are making regular checks on his health.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/amesbury-poisoning-latest-novichok-skripal-salisbury-wiltshire-victims-russia-a8431711.html
To refresh the memory, this was the official timeline :
Detectives released details of their movements on Friday and Saturday after speaking to key witnesses and trawling through more than 1,300 hours of CCTV footage.
They issued the following timeline:
At around 12:20pm on Friday Mr Rowley and Ms Sturgess are together at John Baker House in Salisbury before leaving and visiting several shops, then heading to Queen Elizabeth Gardens.
They return to John Baker House at around 4.20pm before catching a bus to Amesbury at approximately 10.30pm. Detectives currently believe they spent the night at an address on Muggleton Road, Amesbury.
On Saturday ambulance crews called on the address at 10:15am, where Ms Sturgess had been taken ill and took her to hospital.
At around midday, Mr Rowley visited Boots the chemist on Stonehenge Walk in Amesbury and then returned to his address in Muggleton Road around half an hour later.
At around 1.45pm he visited the Amesbury Baptist Centre on Butterfield Drive and returned home at around 3pm.
At 6.20pm the South West Ambulance Service were called back to the address on Muggleton Road and Mr Rowley was taken to hospital.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-07-05/amesbury-novichok-poisoning-cctv/
Thanks Liane,
I can’t remember the part where and when Dawn was in Boots for hair dye, a July 4th event, so she was going red, white and blue to dress up for the celebrations.
Hair dye was Boots, and sun glasses and perfume might have been “lifted” there by Charlie, while the assistant was helping Dawn with hair colourants.
I can see no reason why authorities would connect the two cases via “Novichok” without being forced to.
It is another spike into the theory that “Borishov” and “Petrov” were the lone culprits who attacked the Skripals via doorknob.
There must have been “Novichok” inside Skripal’s house, and authorities came up with the doorknob theory not to implicate them when it was clear they would survive.
I doubt that the accident happened inside the house. More likely a glass bottle broke when Skripals passed the stuff on. And it might have been Sergeant Bailey who was supposed to arrest them.
So the perfume bottle might have been a reminder that there are some people who know the background story and might be able to prove it.
The ‘perfume’ was not capable of being sold in Boots.
1) it is counterfeit – Nina Ricci does not even make that size container (or a similar box) for the real thing.
2) it was not a sample (that would have been made by Nina Ricci – see ‘1’ above).
3) it does not have the ‘e’ (estimated) symbol next to the quantity – it therefore is not allowed to be sold through normal retail channels.
4) the only source I have found for the bottle and the box is online in Russia. Several online stores were selling it… but not anymore.
Now that we know more about the alleged contents of the bottle, it is clear that the package (including its thick ‘bacon wrapperlike’ wrapping) was produced by a state actor… but that state actor was not Russia.
Whilst on this subject of the bottle, on September 5, Basu said that on July 10 police searching Rowley’s kitchen garbage container had found a perfume box. On July 11, the police had found a perfume bottle on the kitchen table.
But on Sunday July 8, Savid Javid had stood outside Rowley’s front door – only a few meters away from the unnoticed bottle! I wonder what steps had the police taken to make sure the property was safe for HMG’s minister’s visit…
I would not be so sure about the state actor. People close to OPCW claimed because the substance was pure it must have been a state actor but not even Theresa May claimed that (Russia might have lost control).
Anthrax comes to mind which could be proven to have been produced in a US state laboratory.
I guess any person in a university labority could produce an organophosphate similar to the known descriptions of A-234.
It is nothing to do with the purity of the sample. Novichok was already on the OPCW database. Whatever was used in Salisbury/Amesbury was not on the database… yet PD had a sample.
I doubt anyone in a university lab could ‘knock up’ a brand new category of nerve agent… that would take the resources of somewhere like… Porton Down!
ok. That still leaves the possibility of a single crazy employee like in the antrax case. Everybody nowadays being a contractor opens more avenues.
Actually, you might have solved the puzzle of what was intended with this attack.
To create an incident that forces the OPCW to get involved as the substance found is “new” plus implicating Russia in violating the CWC.
It seems the countries involved in this got what they wanted as the OPCW now can put blame on perpetrators.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44634434
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/27/world/middleeast/chemical-weapons-attacks.html
New York Times article on the same topic explicitely naming Skripal as reason for the vote.
Three days later Dawn Sturgess goes to hospital.
As I have mentioned elsewhere, I have a reliable overseas government source who has told me that Salisbury was (in their estimation) a “US directed show”.
The more we learn the better that description fits the facts.
I suspect that Salisbury was (in some way) connecetd with the faked white helmet attacks in Syria. A staged event on ‘home soil’ might have been thought as a better way of broadening public support for the anti-Russian BS.
The people we are dealing with are just not very smart… they have the power to organise and carry out these attacks but they are arrogant and very stupid.
Red Transit Van-Others. Are these who Charlie is referring when
he says “They”?
How many times (and at how many different places) in one day would a lady dye her hair?
“Mr Hobson stayed with Ms Sturgess at John Baker House while she dyed her hair blonde and they later went to Mr Rowley’s home in Amesbury.”
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/992439/novichok-police-witnesses-suspect-photo
This from Charlie Rowley to ITN: . “Dawn was talking about finishing dying her hair, because she’d been dying her hair down by the river the day before.”
John Baker house is not ‘down by the river’, though it’s interesting that it features yet again in the story. A bin was removed from that location for testing – days after the Skripal incident a body (Tyler Gray).
Interesting,not seen or heard about bruising-scratches. Did Charlie
do that? Did one of Red Transit Van people get discovered as an
undercover operative and it all kicked off?
Just an idea-theory but did Dawn-Charlie witness something 04-03-18
and an undercover operative-agent MI56 infiltrated Dawn-Charlie’s
group of friends in a failed attempt at silencing them both.
Thanks.
Yes, thanks Liane
Can I ask you a quick question, did anyone manage to establish the frequency of the bin collections where Charlies is supposed to have found the “perfume”?
“Then he started accusing me and even trying to strangle me.”
If that’s true, then as hinted by Liane, Charlie grabbed Sam’s neck tightly with hands that were contaminated with ‘Novichok’ or whatever. But Sam wasn’t given a blood test until 2 weeks later, and develops a spine-eating infection that is supposed to be unrelated to the poisoning?
Sam had marks on his neck soon after the Amesbury incident – maybe from fingernails and bruising?
https://www.news.com.au/world/skripal-poisoning-unknown-substance-scare-a-few-km-from-where-russian-diplomat-daughter-attacked-in-wiltshire/news-story/46c565a23a42818e29038b7ac11800e2
Cropped: https://ibb.co/9HyCFjY
The risk to Sam’s health was even greater if Charlie is correct about when he himself got contaminated:
“I was okay after touching the bottle the first time because I washed my hands, but when I went back to the flat I think I got infected again from the tap.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/novichok-attack-survivor-charlie-rowley-13703922
If that’s true, then he tried to strangle Sam with freshly contaminated hands (assuming that the strangling story is also true).
It has been assumed all along that Charlie’s illness was only caused by his contact with the poison several hours earlier when he spilled it from the bottle. However his belief that it happened later (when he came back to the flat) seems plausible.
Brendan, that is a very good observation. The strangulation marks are clearly visible.
You can see not only scratch marks but also haematomas.
The color of the haematomas has changed from blue to yellow-brown. So they very well can be 4 days old.
This is the right side of the neck on July 4 :
https://ibb.co/0KghzxW
But was it really Charlie who tried to strangle Sam ? And if so, was the reason really Novichok ?
Maybe Charlie blamed him for Dawn’s condition, so he stung his throat ?!
I don´t trust Sam. He changes his stories. For example about his treatment or non-treatment.
On July 4 he told ITV in a video : „I´ve been checked over, I´m completely fine.“ https://twitter.com/itvwestcountry/status/1014520482907947008?s=19
Peter – are Charlie and Sam still friends ?
Was Pablo Miller involved in Operation Hades?
And was he responsible for the British “anti-drug” flagship project in Colombia as the now deleted linkedin page claims (which is rumoured to have been a Russian plant in 2017)
He was in Spain in 1995 when he supposedly recruited Skripal, same year operation Hades was planned in Spain, the stooges arrested at Munich airport were Colombians and Rafa, the Spanish BND spy, planned a concurrent cocaine sting project involving BND and Colombia.
Operation Hades – arrests in August 1994 and planed before.
True. Skripal was in Madrid from 1993 onwards.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/sergei-skripal-russia-putin-salisbury-poisoning-spain-madrid-spy-connection-a8254281.html
Did he work for more than one Secret Service – like for BND, too – whilst keeping a back channel to Russia?
There was no news about any GRU agents uncovered/arrested because of Skripal. Did he play a completely different role, like connecting/finding people to deliver stuff for money?
Same era (first half of 1990’s) BND acquired Novichok.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/novichok-germany-west-knowledge-obtained-sample-salisbury-russia-skripal-poison-nerve-agent-a8356851.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278691518306598
Not sure where I got this from, apologises if it’s from the blog, but if you read all of it, then you can definitely assume that they were not poisoned by a nerve agent, Novichok or otherwise.
It is a play on people’s association. You can call alcohol a nerve agent as it acts on people’s nerves. There was a very obvious attempt to blow things out of proportion and – at the same time – to calm things down.
Never mind, the Salisbury cases “highly likely” were organophospate poisonings. You can do that with pesticides or – as in Kim Yong Un – VX.
Thanks,
I read it with interest and have emailed the author with a question or two.
If Dr. Nepovimova responds I will publish on the Blog.
From Dr. Nepovimova’s article : “the exact reliable data are still missing”.
I’m not convinced that the extreme lethality of Novichok is not a hoax.
Yes, this Dutch article claims the contrary
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/03/21/unknown-newcomer-novichok-was-long-known-a1596490
“His work was quoted in Western professional magazines and it became clear that institutions such as Edgewood had been investigating the Russian VX quickly and openly. The decisive factor must have been that the Russian VX is not very different from the American VX- and is also less toxic.”
BBC Panorama:
Who can forget the words of Professor Tim, the man at PD who first identified the deadly nerve agent,
“The professor talks about the moment he discovered the substance used against the Skripals in Salisbury was novichok.
A BBC Panorama documentary on TV last night (Thursday November 22nd) feature the Porton Down scientist who established the poison used on Sergei and Yulia Skripal was novichok.
Professor Tim, from the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, who’s surname cannot be revealed for security reasons, talks about the moment he identified the nerve agent in the attack against the former Russian spy and his daughter.
“It was a jaw dropping moment. I went through a number of emotions from disbelief to anger.
“It’s one of the most dangerous substances known. It’s quite unique in its ability to poison individuals at very low concentrations.”
So there you have it, it is indeed a known substance, and apparently Prof Tim knows its toxicity too.
How did he know that?
Because he has seen the animal / human experimental testing literature.
There is no other way to obtain that information
Duncan:
At 17:30pm on Wednesday 7th March, Mark Rowley announced to the press that PD had identified a nerve agent but refused to name it. That was quick work… how would they do that?
PD might have known what it was but it was not on the OPCW database… yet Mrs May did not ask OPCW to investigate until the following Wednesday (14 March).
I do not understand why PD would not have immediately (i.e. on 7 March) notified OPCW that a nerve agent (not known to OPCW) had been used… and sent them samples.
It also begs the question of why Mrs May accused Russia… how could HMG know that Russia was the ‘only source’ of a chemical (not known to OPCW)… but PD also had samples?
What’s in a name?
Well it depends on how unimaginative you are or how important it is to differentiate between things.
So in Cricket where there is no need to tax the imagination, we have Wickets. A Wicket can be one of the two sets of three stumps at each end of the 22 yard playing area (which is also known as the Wicket). And then when a player is Out by all manner of means (not all understood by the unimaginative) that too is classed as a Wicket.
But when it comes to fruit we have different names for different things and it is why apples and oranges are called different things. Its important.
Nerve Agents fall into a Twilight Zone when the Experts try and differentiate between them depending on what their intention is eg to elucidate between two different types of chemicals or sometimes it is necessary to bamboozle, confuse or convince their audience that only Experts need to understand the details.
And not all Experts agree on the various classifications / categories / families / groups / names.
We have the Old School who like the give specific names to individual chemicals eg Sarin, Soman & Tabun and then put them into a common series eg the G Series or V Series, to denote a particular family that exhibit common features.
Then along came a new group (a long time ago now) and these went under the Name Novichoks because that was the name in Russian for “Newcomer” but there was nothing particularly Russian about them, they are also known as 4th Generation Nerve Agents. The grouping under a single name was in part because it wasn’t clear (to anyone) just how many varieties existed from the Chemical Weapon Research that was going on in Labs all around the world. The rules are that if someone found a new Nerve Agent (or deadly chemical) then they should report it to the OPCW and register it in their Database. This is precisely what Iran did in 2016.
But not everyone follows the rules, some cheat (as in Cricket) and do stuff secretly and don’t inform the OPCW until they have been rumbled.
There is further confusion put in place by some people that want to fog the understanding of the Science further. There is a malign element within the Killing People with Chemicals Community that want to rebrand another traditional group of harmful chemicals from one thing to another. They want to introduce the Wicket into Weaponised Chemical Science, they want to rename Apples as Oranges (but keep oranges as oranges)
A Discontented Cell within DSTL at Porton Down and the OPCW want to re-classify a family of Synthetic Opiates (fentanyls / carfentanils ) currently known as Incapacitants to Nerve Agents or to give it its proposed full Thoroughbred Registration Name; Central Nervous System – Acting Chemicals.
This was the substance used to subdue the Hostage Takers (along with the hostages in the Moscow Theatre Siege in Moscow in 2002, unfortunately 170 people died (20% of those exposed to the Incapacitant).
Us non-experts do not need to understand the science we just need to recognise when we are having our chains pulled. But for now the British Definition of Novichok is any harmful new chemical that could have come from Russia.
I will make some observations which you can make of as you will.
The Chemical used in Salisbury and Amesbury, despite what Porton Down and the OPCW said it was (or what their amended view is now) exhibited characteristics of Incapacitant rather than Nerve Agent.
The Death toll in the Moscow Siege – 20%, the Wiltshire Incidents – 20%.
Opiates in some people can cause severe allergic reactions (anaphylactic shock) which may occasionally be fatal. A friend at the scene described Dawn; “she did not look … alive” when they placed her in the ambulance.
Heavy drug users can become strongly resistant to opiates resulting in higher and higher use to get the same buzz.
If Charlie had been contaminated by an Opiate Incapcitant in the morning it may not have had the affect that a non drug user may display. However if he visited the chemist and picked up his methadone medication and later that day took some that may have been enough to push him into overdose.
Opiates can and do weaken the immune system. Bacteria that exists benignly in our bodies, if our immune systems a weakened to such a point, can turn on us and cause serious illness and occasionally death
Sam Hobson was with Dawn and Charlie that day in Amesbury, he was in the flat with Charlie he phoned the ambulance.
When Charlie was discharged from hospital he contacted a bacterial meningitis it sent him back to hospital. Sam too was admitted to hospital suffering from the same bug, his ate away at his spine and it had to be reconstructed.
Charlie was told his meningitis had nothing to do with the “Novichok” (how do they know that?) and Sam was told his illness was an unfortunate coincidence.
Sam was not checked out for contamination until 2 weeks later when he gave a thumb prick blood test.
When we are not told the Truth we are left to work out for ourselves what the Truth really is, we may never get the full Truth but at least by continuing to inquire we move closer to it and further away from the Lies that we have been told to accept.
original doc https://www.explicite.info/articles/3145 translated by the author
The forgotten death of Dawn Sturgess
This is where she lived. In a small street, a stone’s throw from the town square, where November’s Remembrance Day decorations are already being replaced by the big Christmas tree that employees of the town hall are installing. It is early November, only four months since she died.
At John Baker House, where she lived, homeless people aged between 18 and 65 find a shelter in the twenty rooms. The broad red brick house offers a temporary place to live for up to two years, giving a semblance of home. The front door is secured by a pass entry system and an intercom and the comings and goings are numerous on this rainy Wednesday. In front of the entrance, some people take the time to chat about her. Others ask, “How much do we get? » for them to talk about it. It’s not possible to enter the house, a social worker simply gives us a booklet with the number to contact for the press. On the piece of paper that has just been detached from the wall, it explains in capital letters how to respond to journalists: “DO NOT SAY NO COMMENT ” ask them to contact us “. On the phone, Chris, the press manager, explains that the situation is complicated: “We have had many enquiries and now we want to move this story away from the house and its residents.”
By the entrance of the house, a young resident stops when he hears “French journalist”. “Oh, I’ve been to France,” he recalls. The memories of his French are practical: “Je suis fatigué” and “comment ca va? “. The man, in his early twenties, explains that he was released from prison and that he was not there when it happened, that he did not know her. Above his head, his fellow house mates mock him from the window of the first floor as a ray of sunshine sneaks between two rain showers. “She was staying in that room. Today we call it “The Novichok Room”. In Salisbury, it’s the word that scares, the one that recalls bad memories. It also put the city of about 60,000 people into world’s headlines.
“We only reopened last week. It was a tough year, we had the snow and the Novichok … twice!” says a waitress at the Italian restaurant Zizzi. It was after having lunch in this restaurant that Sergei Skripal and his daughter were rescued, unconscious and suffering from spasms on March 4th. They had just been poisoned by a chemical agent: Novichok. The case was in the British media for weeks: a former Russian spy poisoned by a foreign nervous agent on British soil, a story worthy of the best crime series. A case taken very seriously by the British government which accused Russia of a direct attack on its soil. Sergei and his daughter Yulia, after weeks of treatment at Salisbury Hospital, survived and are now under British government protection in an undisclosed location. In September, the police confirmed the rumours: the attempted murder was perpetrated by two Russian agents, Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov. They were tourists according to the Kremlin. A little later, the British investigation website Bellingcat revealed the true identity of the two suspects: Alexander Mishkin and Anatoliy Chepiga, two Russian agents of the GRU, the Russian military intelligence. The investigation went quickly. The suspects will probably never be apprehended. Russia denies any involvement.
But for Her, things went differently. She too was poisoned by Novichok, but by accident. “Collateral damage” as they say. She, on the other hand, is dead. And since her death, it’s as if, She was anonymous, forgotten, not interesting enough for the newspapers and the government to make it a diplomatic crisis as they did for the Skripals. Dawn Sturgess had three children, a “problem with alcohol” according to her family, and was in love with Charlie Rowley, as his Facebook page attests. She lived in the John Baker House, in the “Novichok Room”.
After the Skripal attack, police reassured the people of Salisbury that the risk of contamination was low. On June 30, however, in Amesbury, a small town about twenty minutes’ drive from Salisbury, the lives of Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley were rocked. “That day, I stayed at Charlie’s and Dawn was there. I left them in the morning because it was my son’s birthday. I came back about two hours later and there I saw ambulances. Charlie was crying and Dawn was on a stretcher being given oxygen. She did not look … alive, “recalls Sam Hobson, 29, a friend of the couple who was with them that day. Dawn had complained of a headache that morning. She did not want to take medication because she didn’t want to mix with those she was already taking, anti-depressants. To calm the pain, she had a shower but then collapsed. It was Charlie who found her and called for help. The rest of the day, Sam recalls it as if it was yesterday. Dawn had to go to the hospital for more in-depth exams so Charlie and him went out to pack a bag with belongings for Dawn. On the way, they stopped at the Amesbury Baptist Church, which was holding a family day. Charlie had never been to this church before but took the opportunity to make a small prayer for Dawn. Then back at home, it was Charlie who started to have symptoms. “He started feeling a little weird, he told me he thought he had been poisoned. Then he started accusing me and even trying to strangle me. It was not like him to have that kind of attitude, I managed to calm him down, but then he started swinging back and forth and his eyes were bloodshot. ” . Sam called an ambulance and after being examined at home for two hours by doctors in protective gear, Charlie was taken to the hospital. He stayed there for about 3 weeks.
Dawn Sturgess, died on July 8th. A bad date to die this year. In the midst of the Brexit storm, the announcement of the death of the forty-year-old was unveiled on Sunday evening, just before the resignation of the then Brexit Minister, David Davis. The next day, it was Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary known for his dubious jokes and disheveled blond hair, who was resigning. Theresa May lost two ministers in 24 hours, just days after announcing her new exit plan from the European Union. Dawn’s death almost went unnoticed. Monday, July 9th, the day after the announcement of her death, the front pages of national newspapers were mostly about Brexit. Out of ten national dailies, five did not mention Dawn’s death. The others devoted just a little inset. A blatant lack of media coverage compared to the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal. Why ?
Because Dawn Sturgess was what could insensitively be called a “second class citizen”. She was an alcoholic, was in a relationship with a drug addict, came from a very modest social background. She was neither rich nor high profile on social networks and hailed from a small town only famous for its medieval city and cathedral. And now for Novichok. At present, we still do not know the exact circumstances of her poisoning. According to the latest report from the Metropolitan Police dated September 5th, “Charlie said he found a box of perfume in a charity bin.” He then tried to assemble the bottle of perfume before offering it to Dawn who sprayed the product directly on her wrist. In the Skripal case, it was revealed that it was with a bottle of Nina Ricci perfume with a modified tip that the two suspects sprayed the chemical agent on the door handle of Sergei Skripal’s house in March. In a recent BBC Panorama interview, Commissioner Dean Haydon, in charge of the investigation, said the amount of the product contained in this perfume bottle “could have probably killed thousands of people.”
The police claimed that the Skripal and Dawn and Charlie’s incidents are related and that it is the same product used in both poisonings. But in the report of September 5th, the police also admitted they “cannot explain where the bottle of perfume was between the attack of the Skripal on March 4th and when Charlie Rowley said he found it on June 27th.”
Since that report, nothing else has leaked about the investigation of Dawn Sturgess’s death. While the Skripal poisoning suspects have already been found, for Dawn, no charges were pressed. Contacted by Explicit, a source from the Metropolitan Police who prefers to remain anonymous specifies a troubling point. It is indeed Novichok but “at the moment, it is impossible to know if it is the same batch of Novichok used for the attack on Skripal … and it may never be possible to know it”. This is one of the reasons why no charges are currently pressed against anyone in the case of Dawn’s death: the evidence to show the involvement of the two Russian agents is insufficient. When asked whether the police are investigating a possibility other than those of the two Russians the answer is very politically correct: “We think that the two cases are related, interpret it as you wish”. Another detail is important, whilst for the Skripal case there were 250 detectives in charge of the investigation, they are now only 50 on both cases. How many are working on Dawn’s death remains a mystery. The subject is very sensitive and if the communication war with Russia pushed the UK to show all the means put in place for the Skripal, the lack of information regarding the investigation of the death of Dawn Sturgess is striking.
But so far, it does not seem to disturb anyone, at least not officially. No major investigation in the British press, no family or friends who are indignant or mount a campaign on social networks for justice for the death of Dawn. For them, life is not easy either and the desire to move on, not to talk about it publicly, seems to take precedence over the rest. In the end, it’s all good for the government.
The government sticks to the official statement of Theresa May also dating from September 5th. The British prime minister devoted the majority of her speech to talk about the Skripal attack and previous attacks by Russian citizens on UK soil. Only a few lines mention Charlie and Dawn: this incident, she says, “left four people fighting for their lives and caused the death of an innocent woman. The entire House of Commons supports the family of Dawn Sturgess especially after this tragic loss”. A message she had already briefly expressed the day after Dawn’s death last July. Beyond the 23 Russian diplomats deported as a result of the Skripal attack, the government took no further action after Dawn’s death. It was already the maximum that could be done explain sources close to the case.
In the meantime in Salisbury, life goes on. Charlie Rowley, recently interviewed by the Sunday Mirror confessed how his life was turned upside down: “Novichok could kill me, I think about it all the time and I’m terrified. ” The forty-year-old has had many health problems since his poisoning: a stroke, partial blindness and meningitis, all linked according to him to Novichok. Dawn’s family did not want to answer our questions but Sam Hobson remembers her as a “mother figure who people ask for advice” and still talks about Dawn in the present. He talks about her funeral at the end of July when there were so many people that many of them had to stand outside the chapel of the Salisbury crematorium. “She is missed by a lot of people,” says Sam. His brown hair on his forehead and his big blue eyes reveal a young man who looks anxious and not quite comfortable. He has to wear a splint for his back after being hospitalized for three weeks. “An infection,” he says, wondering if his presence with Charlie and Dawn on the day of the poisoning has anything to do with it. Today he lives with his uncle and his grandmother, just for the time to recover before returning home. The young man who had been working as a mechanic since he was 16 is unemployed and living on social benefits. He says he has not received any help since the poisoning. Some sources close to the case say that Charlie was offered help: detox, special protection but he apparently refused because he was paranoid about being arrested by the police because he possessed drugs. In his interview with the Sunday Mirror, Charlie contradicts these words: “The system is broken, I need support. If the authorities offered me help I would have accepted it. I feel like I was abandoned, “he explains to the British newspaper.
His friend Sam tells us that Charlie was simply relocated to another apartment because his had to be decontaminated after the poisoning. An ironic relocation. When he was with Dawn, “Charlie’s dream” according to Sam, was to have a larger flat, with two rooms, but his requests to the council were denied. Today, Charlie has been relocated in an apartment with two bedrooms. But now, Dawn is dead.
Elodie Goulesque
To Peter
Didn’t someone find out how often the dumpsters were emptied in Catherine Street?
Another thing about such a tiny bottle/box, if you throw something that size into one of those large bins, surely it would just slide to the bottom. That’s what happens in my recycling bin, the smallest things seem to make their way to the bottom, between the gaps, and my bin is just a fraction of the size of those dumpsters.
It’s ironic it takes a French journalist to take the time to write such a compassionate piece in memory of Dawn.
Symptons are ok for organophosphate poisoning.
I don’t think attackers cared for the Skripals alive or dead. Rather dead if the intention was to take them out of circulation. Yulia is reported to have stopped breathing – if the military nurse had not been there who knew exactly what to do she would hardly have survived.
Some of the excessive decontamination makes sense if you assume that they are looking for something but not all of it.
It wasn’t just organophosphate poisoning that was claimed. it wasn’t claimed it could have been an insecticide it was claimed it was a Military Grade Nerve Agent, it was stipulated that it was a Novichok of which Boris Johnson said Porton Down had a sample of, he further said it was Novichok A-234
If you are going to Troll you will be hit by facts
OPCW advice on how long a Military Grade Nerve Agent takes to cause clinical symptoms when poisoned through the Skin: 20 – 30 mins
Porton Down Advice (PHE) on the time for the New “Stuff” to take effect: Min 3 hrs Max 12 hrs
The perfume bottle had a capacity of 5,500mg
1mg of Novichok is likely to kill, 2mg will definitely kill. Charlie sniffed it into his lungs (no odour), he spilt hundreds of milligrammes onto his hands, wiped over the kitchen surfaces, poured it into the drainage system in Amesbury.
It wasn’t Novichok. If it was he would be dead and so would hundreds of other people.
Thanks to Peter for creating the link below.
https://www.scribd.com/document/398902896/Known-Novichoks-and-New-OPCW-Schedules-1258
The whole point of this chemistry discussion is to prove that the Novichok series of nerve agents was known to the science community.
Not secret, not Russian unique.
Further discussions as to what was on the door handle are spurious, as there was no chemical on the door handle.
Novichok was quickly concocted by Gary and PD, in an attempt to give HMG a stick to hit Russia with.
Some time later, HMG thought “well, this stuff is so nasty, it has to be on the OPCW schedules, lets do that.”
One may wonder if the Novichoks were known about, and information about them published in 2016, why did the OPCW not become more proactive before March 2018.
In the link attachment, other Novichoks are named, with structures given.
May standing up in the HoC and stating that it was a nerve agent made by Russia, or stock lost by Russia was a lie.
Nothing more, nothing less.
She was forced to lie because of PD Gary and Boris coming to the “Russia conclusion” too early.
The French told OPCW that Novichok was not unique to Russia, but that report was suppressed and not made public.
The MSM simply had to find the Iranian paper and the subsequent SpectroscopyNow publication to see this truth.
“Mrs May, the OPCW were informed in January 2017 that this family of nerve agents can be made by anyone with a simple knowledge of organic synthesis. Why do you believe Russia rather than Iran, Ukraine or the USA would want to kill this old ex spy?”
1993 OPCW ignored statement by Uglev and Mirzayanov of their existence.
Dismantling the Soviet/Russian Chemical Weapons Complex: An Insider’s View Vil S. Mirzayanov, October 1995, p.21:
“One should be mindful that the chemical components or precursors of A-232 or its binary version novichok-5 are ordinary organophosphates that can be made at commercial chemical companies that manufacture such products as fertilizers and pesticides.”
OPCW: Report of the Scientific Advisory Board on developments in science and technology for the Third Review Conference, 27 March 2013:
“The SAB emphasised that the definition of toxic chemicals in the Convention would cover all potential candidate chemicals that might be utilised as chemical weapons. Regarding new toxic chemicals not listed in the Annex on Chemicals but which may nevertheless pose a risk to the Convention, the SAB makes reference to Novichoks. The name Novichok is used in a publication of a former Soviet scientist who reported investigating a new class of nerve agents suitable for use as binary chemical weapons. The SAB states that it has insufficient information to comment on the existence or properties of Novichoks.”
Development, Historical Use and Properties of Chemical Warfare Agents. Royal Society of Chemistry, 2016, Dr Robin Black, Head of the Detection Laboratory, Porton Down (former colleague of Dr David Kelly):
“In recent years, there has been much speculation that a fourth generation of nerve agents, ‘Novichoks’ (newcomer), was developed in Russia, beginning in the 1970s as part of the ‘Foliant’ programme, with the aim of finding agents that would compromise defensive countermeasures. Information on these compounds has been sparse in the public domain, mostly originating from a dissident Russian military chemist, Vil Mirzayanov. No independent confirmation of the structures or the properties of such compounds has been published.”
At an OPCW meeting, not sure of the year but must have been sometime between 2013-2016, there is audio of Hilary Clinton asking members outside the forum, for the report into these new type of agents to be supressed.
Skripal roof not toxic then
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-04/skripal-house-undergoes-decontamination-work/
Where are the bio-hazard suits?? It seems it is not just the roof either!
From your link:
“Part of the work will see the property’s roof dismantled and a neighbouring garage removed …”
Plus they are taking down parts of the house! Removing breeze blocks!!
They are still looking for something – this is nothing to do with ‘decontamination’.
Which also means that the UK doesn’t have Sergei either… he would surely have told them by now if he had hidden something.
So if the US has Yulia (which I think they do) who has Sergei… the US or Russia? My bet is Russia.
Maybe Sergei was involved in the dossier and fed everything he got back to Yulia (she visited him often enough)… Sergei did a bit of translating and cut and pasted the dossier together but Yulia handed the raw material to Stepan and Russia now knows all the sources of the faked info… in which case Yulia might be more valuable to the US than Sergei – all he did was a bit of editing.
That would explain why it happened when Yulia was out of Russia and it would explain why Viktoria (and according to her Stepan) knew “the pub” (i.e. The Mill) was important. It would also explain why Stepan vanished as soon as Yulia did. Perhaps there were 2 cars waiting in the car park: Sergei went off with the Russians and Yulia got into Nigel’s taxi to go off with the Americans in the AA.
So the US has Yulia; Russia has Sergei and HMG has some roof parts and breeze blocks in which it hopes to find something… and lots of CCTV that proves how useless they are.
“Which also means that the UK doesn’t have Sergei either… he would surely have told them by now if he had hidden something”.
Not necessarily – we don’t do torture* – but we might have sent him to somebody who does.
*allegedly
“We don’t do torture”… that might be a case of wishful thinking.
There is plenty of material like this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/28/uk-role-torture-kidnap-terror-suspects-after-911-revealed
I am sure that if HMG had Sergei, they would have got him to talk by now – one way or another.
Does the “neighbouring garage” mean Sergei’s garage (converted to an office) or the garage of the house next door?
I still think Sergei was using his house to store chemicals from Porton Down as part of some MI6 operation.
I take “neighbouring garage” to mean the neighbour’s house. Sergei didn’t have a garage, it was converted before the taxpayer bought the house for him… but it probably still only has a single-leaf wall between it and the neighbour’s garage, so they will check to see if Sergei hid something in the connecting wall.
Hi Peter B,
Has Charlie said anything to you about his comment “They’ve killed my girlfriend”. Made to his brother? I completely understand if you cant answer.
https://williambowles.info/2019/02/04/britains-secret-propaganda-integrity-initiative-targets-russia-by-thomas-scripps/
Mechanism of Sergei´s front door
Elena Evdokimova wrote on twitter :
Experimenting with 2 of the doors opening outside as Skripal’s door, tried to do it without thinking- never closed the door by the handle, always just pressing on the door itself.
Kev371 answered : With some doors like this, you can push/press it closed BUT to lock it you need to press the handle upward (which tightens the closing) and then turn a key in the lock. (1st out would leave the door to be closed and locked by the second and not touch the handle)
Steve H answered : If the door opens outwards, nobody would ever touch the handle on leaving the house! At least there is no guarantee that they would – hence it is not something an assassin would use!
https://twitter.com/elenaevdokimov7/status/1092171329271296000
This inspired me to look closer at the door mechanism.
I believe that the whole door installation is the custom work of a joiner.
However, a level is missing. You have to take a giant step on the doormat.
I think Sergei chose an outwards opening door because he kept the old door – a double door system. With an inwards opening door there would not have been enough space.
He may have chosen this double door system so the cats can not run away.
The door has three stainless steel hinges. They are self closing ! Like this :
https://www.simonswerk.de/produktselektor/ps/Modell/show/siku-3d-k-4240.html
To lock the door you have to use a key, but I´m not sure if you really need to press the handle upwards. Lever locks have the keyhole in the door handle itself. That´s not the case with Sergei´s door. But it could be a Push-In Lock – difficult to see.
Anyway, it is not necessary to touch the outer door handle to lock the door.
How would two persons leave the house via this double door system ?
For self-closing doors, it is common for the preceding person (Sergei) to hold the door open to the next person (Yulia) at the inside door handle. Then he waits for the person to be outside and lets the door fall into the lock. Then he takes the key and locks the door.
In this variant, neither of the two persons touched the outer door handle !!!
Can’t leave one aspect of this unchallenged:
Self-closing hinges + self-locking door = potentially disastrous combination aka how to lock yourself out far too easily (or how to knock yourself out far too easily, banging your head against a wall in frustration).
IMO (having had a self-locking mechanism installed as standard but changed by a locksmith within a week of installation and had a keysafe fitted at the same time) and IME, it is possible to close and lock the door using only one hand because, having raised the door handle to engage the door multi-locking mechanism, it can be returned to the level position and the door then locked using the key.
I think the cylinder lock is just about visible at 47CMR, in some images; or there’s a smudge where the cylinder would be would be, on the door handle.
https://www.upvc-hardware.co.uk/locks-amp-gearing/replacement-multipoint-upvc-door-lock-mechanisms
The cylinder lock can be seen clearly here
https://ibb.co/6sfGv6F
from image 7/8 in slideshow in https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-russia-police/yulia-skripal-poisoned-with-her-russian-double-agent-father-is-getting-better-idUSKBN1H4327
Regardless of how the door was locked or closed, there was no reason for both Sergei and Yulia to touch the handle. Only the person closing or locking up on the way out needed to touch it.
Thanks, Brendan, that’s exactly what I hoped to illustrate.
The New Stuff (OPCW)
P-Alkyl (H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl)N-(1-(dialkyl(≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl)amino))alkylidene(H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) phosphoramidic fluorides and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts
e.g., N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene)-P-decylphosphonamidic fluoride
…….
O-alkyl (H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) N-(1-(dialkyl(≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl)amino))alkylidene(H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) phosphoramidofluoridates and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts
e.g., O-n-decyl N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene) phosphoramidofluoridate
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B%28e%29.pdf
……
The Old Stuff (OPCW)
• Tabun, O-ethyl dimethylamidophosphorylcyanide, with the American denomination GA. This nerve agent is the easiest to manufacture.
• Sarin, isopropyl methylphosphonofluoridate, with the American denomination GB, a volatile substance mainly taken up through inhalation.
• Soman, pinacolyl methylphosphonofluoridate, with the American denomination GD, a moderately volatile substance which can be taken up by inhalation or skin contact.
• Cyclohexyl methylphosphonofluoridate, with the American denomination GF, a substance with low volatility which is taken up through skin contact and inhalation of the substance either as a gas or aerosol.
• O-ethyl S-diisopropylaminomethyl methylphosphonothiolate, better known under the American denomination VX, a persistent substance which can remain on material, equipment and terrain for long periods. Uptake is mainly through the skin but also through inhalation of the substance as a gas or aerosol.
http://web.archive.org/web/20180314094036/https://www.opcw.org/protection/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/
……………
• Novickok A-234 (various sources)
• A-234 (Nerve agent)
• [(1E)-1-(Diéthylamino)éthylidène]phosphoramidofluoridate d’éthyle [French] [ACD/IUPAC Name]
• Ethyl [(1E)-1-(diethylamino)ethylidene]phosphoramidofluoridate [ACD/IUPAC Name]
• Ethyl-[(1E)-1-(diethylamino)ethyliden]phosphoramidofluoridat [German] [ACD/IUPAC Name]
• Phosphoramidofluoridic acid, N-[(1E)-1-(diethylamino)ethylidene]-, ethyl ester [ACD/Index Name]
http://www.chemspider.com/Chemical-Structure.64808787.html?rid=ad025885-25b9-4b63-8d4b-51f7121d24c7
2 New Groups
N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene)-P-decylphosphonamidic fluoride
O-n-decyl N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene) phosphoramidofluoridate
Old Novichok A 234
Phosphoramidofluoridic acid, N-[(1E)-1-(diethylamino)ethylidene]-, ethyl ester
Vladimir Uglev in his interview said there was no antidote to the four FOLIANT nerve agents. Porton Down could only identify the NEW STUFF if they had a sample prior to 4th March and had been working on an antidote.
The literature does not agree as to the “structure” of the molecule.
I can’t paste drawings on the Blog.
A-230 and A-234 have been in the literature for years.
They are known substances.
The Iranian paper was a recent example.
This link is an older example. 1957 !!
https://twitter.com/climateaudit/status/980519315089879042?lang=en
Irrespective of what was or was not used in Salisbury, there is no unique link to “Novichok” as described by May and the Russian state.
In summary, this family of compounds has been known about for 60 years.
They are easy to make.
Novichok does not = Russia.
The French had a report submitted to OPCW stating this obvious fact and the UK asked OPCW to suppress it.
Our problem is that apart few a few, like us, Galloway, Helmer, and Murray no one cares.
Well hopefully the Coroner cares.
If he is allowed to do his job.
Lets have a reality check because its getting silly again.
There was no Novichok on the door handle or anywhere
There was no New Stuff anywhere until the OPCW turned up
New Stuff was given to the OPCW and they were told that had been found all over the place and in the victims bodies. That wasn’t true.
The Hoax relies on people who make up the cover up being less stupid than the people listening to it,
That hasn’t worked so far except in parliament and the media.
But fair play to them, they are sticking it out, I suppose spending the rest of their lives behind bars is incentive enough.
We don’t know that, do we?
I think it is unlikely that whoever dreamed the propaganda for this up wished to find “Novichok” in a sealed bottle at Charles Rowley’s place.
Never mind a slightly different “Novichok”.
We are told what was found in Salisbury and Amesbury was a Military Grade Highly Pure Nerve Agent.
We are told by the OPCW that Nerve Agents cause clinical symptoms when contact is through the skin in 20-30 mins.
We are told by PHE that the “stuff” found in Wiltshire creates clinical symptoms in a minimum of 3 hours and a maximum of 12 hours.
Therefore we know that what was found in Wiltshire was Not a Nerve Agent.
PHE failed to tell us how they knew how long “this stuff” takes to act, it certainly wasn’t by observation of what happened to Dawn unless of course she also suffered severe anaphylactic shock similar to that which some people have associated with opiate intolerance
Nobody seems to know the effects of the two structures quoted by OPCW as “new”.
If someone wanted to prove to the British Government that they are helpless they succeeded.
Public Health England said they knew
“Speaking in regards to how long it would take before the affects of the nerve agent would come into effect on a person, Public Health England Medical Director Paul Cosford said:
“If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.””
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2630419/amesbury-incident-novichok-could-be-active-for-50-years/
The OPCW know about Nerve Agents but they didn’t know about the New Stuff
“Poisoning takes longer when the nerve agent enters the body through the skin. Nerve agents are more or less fat-soluble and can penetrate the outer layers of the skin. However, it takes some time before the poison reaches the deeper blood vessels. Consequently, the first symptoms do not occur until 20-30 minutes after the initial exposure but subsequently the poisoning process may be rapid if the total dose of nerve agent is high. The toxic effect of nerve agents depends on them becoming bound to an enzyme, acetylcholinesterase, and thereby inhibit this vital enzyme’s normal biological activity in the cholinergic nervous system.”
http://web.archive.org/web/20180314094036/https://www.opcw.org/protection/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/
Read the entire document for a good backgrounder on Nerve Agents
“maybe if “
I think of it as the difference between the brand and the fake brand, a bit like a bona fide Nina Ricci product and the fake Premier Jour.
The OPCW eschews branding in favour of registering generics, so the propagandist will readily resort to the use of a more easily remembered brand name – this benefits the purveyors of fake products, potentially damages the reputation of the original developer, and sidesteps the more robust requirements of the serious gatekeepers.
Peter, that is true,BUT
Samples with some chemical or other were given to the OPCW.
( We suspect from Porton Down, after Gary spoke to soon, and Boris spoke even sooner.)
That chemical, according to HMG could only have come from the Russian state,
It is easy to prove that lie. It does not need to be proved to the OPCW, because France and the other member states know that.
Chemical XXX = Russia is the root of the lie.
I posted this below in a response to Paul and Peter.
I don’t think the significance has been grasped by the Blogmirers
In 2016 Iranian academic researchers made Novochoks.
Significant?
But just as important they called these substances Novichoks.
“Paul, when the Iranians synthesised the nerve agents, they called them Novichoks.
This academic work was well before the Skripal poisoning.
The Iranian paper was published, then later became an article in Spectroscopy Now.
In that 2107 article the Spectroscopy Now author said that the Iranian work, (formulae, spectra, molecular structure) had been passed to OPCW , which means Porton Down too.
Some obvious conclusions based on this:
The Iranians were aware of the Novichok class of nerve agents.
The “nerve agent” community was completely aware regarding the chemical nature of these compounds, simply by reading at least (there are probably other papers) the Iranian work.
BUT
We are lead to believe that despite this, this class of compound was NOT on the OPCW list of chemical weapons OR known to Porton Down.
In addition,despite being produced some 2 years ealier in a Iranian lab, we are told by HMG that ONLY the Russian state could access this type of nerve agent. The Novichok family.”
I can only agree with what you write.
As I noted below, on 14 March, 2018, at the meeting of the UN Security Council, FRANÇOIS DELATTRE, French Ambassador to the UN, said:
“A substance, never declared to OPCW, had been used in a European country.”
If the substance was Novichok – he made an erroneous statement because Novichok had been declared to OPCW.
If his statement was correct (and it seems it was because the substance is NOW to be added to the OPCW database)… how did he know?
Peter Wilson’s speech on 14 January, 2019, is, however, the game changer because it confirms that the chemical used in Salisbury and Amesbury is the family of chemicals that are NOW to be added to the OPCW’s database! So those chemicals cannot be Novichok.
It is worth looking at what Peter Wilson in more detail:
“Which brings us to the substance of our meeting today, namely the joint proposal from the Netherlands, Canada and the USA to add two closely related families of chemicals to Schedule 1A of the Convention. We commend the thorough and objective review of the proposal by Technical Secretariat which confirms that:
• first: the criteria for including toxic chemicals on Schedule 1A have been met
• second: the procedural requirements of the Convention have been followed
• and third: that the proposal is consistent with the advice of the Scientific Advisory Board
We have discussed the joint proposal with the co-sponsors and I want to state very clearly that the UK fully supports it. The proposal covers the chemical weapon that was used in my country less than a year ago. It was intended to cause death and tragically it did so. The reports from the Technical Assistance Visits following the appalling events in Salisbury and Amesbury not only confirmed the identity of the substance involved, but also its high toxicity. The two closely related families of chemicals have no identified legitimate civilian use.”
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/62nd-executive-council-meeting-of-the-opcw
It is a circle that cannot be squared. The chemical in Salisbury and Amesbury was not Novichok.
Frankly I find the term “family” in chemistry completely confusing. As far as I can see it is used for “similar” compounds so the Salisbury stuff may be similar but still new.
OPCW naming and code conventions have not room for a programme name like “novichok” and Iranians surely registered their results with the chemical name.
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/VER/DEB/Rules_for_Naming_Compounds_in_the_OPCW_Central_Analytical_database__OCAD_.pdf
Thank you Anidea
You have succinctly explained why it is not possible to put this at Russia’s door
Is the apparent contradiction explained by what Anidea said before – that the Novichoks synthesised by the Iranians did not include A-234 (the alleged weapon against Skripal)? I’m no chemist but aren’t the Iranian ‘Spectroscopy Now’ nerve agents all methyl-based compounds, whereas A-234 is an ethyl?
It shouldn’t matter anyway because the USA has known for decades about the ‘Novichok’ family, including A-234 whose molecular structure was listed in NIST 98. If anyone’s concealing info, it’s the Americans and their partners in Porton Down.
I’m not a chemist either but
According to the the OPCW one of these two is what was found in Salisbury and Amesbury
1.Proposed text:
P-Alkyl (H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl)N-(1-(dialkyl(≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl)amino))alkylidene(H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) phosphoramidic fluorides and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts
e.g., N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene)-P-decylphosphonamidic fluoride
No known CAS Number
2.Proposed text:
O-alkyl (H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) N-(1-(dialkyl(≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl)amino))alkylidene(H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) phosphoramidofluoridates and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts
e.g., O-n-decyl N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene) phosphoramidofluoridate
No known CAS Number
Possibly because I am not a chemist I don’t believe either of those two were found in Wiltshire other than in Porton Down and the samples said to be taken from the victims.
That’s how the Hoax works
Looks like two derivatives of the same stuff. Why two? One found in Amesbury and the other in Salisbury?
When I tried to ask that question before, anidea, my query fell on deaf ears. I do think it’s worth pursuing.
I also speculated that maybe this was the reason why there’s insufficient evidence, allegedly, to charge PnB with Dawn’s death and Charlie’s poisoning. Maybe this notion tries too hard to tie up loose ends.
Don’t forget this here
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-skripal-czech/czechs-tested-novichok-like-substance-for-chemical-warfare-protection-government-idUKKBN1I51KJ
“Nerve agents of the Novichok type though not the same as that used to poison a former Russian spy in Britain have been synthesised in tiny amounts in the Czech Republic to help train the army against chemical warfare, the government said.”
Does this put the Iranians in the frame for the poisoning?
Peter & all
In his twitter Kier Pritchard shows a photo (he outside with the First Responders).
https://twitter.com/wiltspolicecc/status/974336244384698370
From left to right : Escort Officer Janet Bald, Sgt Tracey Holloway, Kier Pritchard, PC Alex Way, PC Alex Collins.
In his thread Pritchard too times highlighted that they ALL were FIRST Responders !
I´ve written about Janet Bald / Julia Gay before :
https://www.theblogmire.com/where-was-detective-sergeant-nicholas-bailey-poisoned/#comment-19270
Again the question : Why would/could an Escort Officer be First Responder ?
Here is a job description :
Quote : Escort Officers will be responsible for the secure detention, care and welfare of detained persons whilst transporting them to custody or other locations on behalf of arresting officers. In addition, they will have secondary administration roles including continuity of exhibits and monitoring of CCTV.
https://wiltshire-police.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-External/brand-3/candidate/so/pm/6/pl/1/opp/25-ESCORT-OFFICER/en-GB
Peter already wrote : „The presence of an Escort Officer indicates to me the possibility that someone had been or was about to be detained by the police.“
Question : Are HorizonWilts team supervisor Julia Gay and
https://twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/970608103329878016
Escort Officer Janet Bald the same person ?
https://twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/974281426387587074
They are obviously not the same person (you cannot do this type of name twisting in small communities without being found out) but they may be sisters.
I agree with anidea, Janet Bald and Julia Gay are different people but they may be related.
Just a thought on what Julia Gay’s team does, because the Horizon team seems to be closely tied in with the PCC’s office (Angus Macpherson, again) as well as with the police etc. The mumbled thought is about DSNB because it was Angus Macpherson, rather than Kier Pritchard of whoever the Chief Constable might now be, who released the news that DSNB had returned to work. And I wondered then whether he might have been sent on secondment to the Police and Crime Commissioner’s Office, but now I also wonder whether he might have been seconded to the Horizon team.
The 2nd video here gives a good idea of the proximity of the key locations
But first a police officer specifically chosen the meet Mrs May at 47s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzU0rls_t3g
He was waiting alone on the bridge, a few photographers were allowed to take snaps but the press pack had been held back.
Advice to photographers at 54s (next video) “If anyone is interested there’s going to be a moment up at the Mill pub on the Bridge, if you want that shot then we’ll take you round”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9qQbdmD750
Council CCTV camera on HSBC bank 3:00 (overlooking Zizzis)
So they start heading to the Mill through the Maltings via Market Walk at 5:50
Then they remember to show her Zizzis 6:00 (an after thought) (note Council CCTV camera on Ceiling of Market Walk at Castle Street end)
Jenny’s 7:40, Snap Fitness 7:50
Council CCTV camera above Market Walk (Malting’s end) 10:30
16:40 Cote Brasserie (Sergei’s regular meeting spot with Pablo Miller)
16:55 The Mill
17:55 quick jog round the front of the Mill to see the introduction of Mrs May to a police officer.
Anyone know who he is? Why he was singled out?
https://cml.sad.ukrd.com/image/657265-1600×900.jpg
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/britains-prime-minister-theresa-may-talks-with-wiltshire-polices-picture-id932343966
https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/08e28c1b81b667061b503198996f84d6fa86d829/0_79_4431_2659/master/4431.jpg?width=620&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=9820e702f83b65a52d42bd454ac6960f
First Responders
PC Alex Way and PC Alex Collins
https://twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/974285225168658433?lang=en
Sgt Tracy Holloway and PC Alex Collins
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/14/we-did-our-best-police-who-rushed-to-skripal-scene-tell-of-shock-and-pride
I thought the PC Way and Sgt Holloway might have been a mix up / mis-heard but apparently not
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/1850252/2000-worth-of-items-stolen-from-salisbury-greenhouse/
And there’s more
https://twitter.com/wiltspolicecc/status/974336244384698370
There were reports of two police officers being at the scene before the 4:15 / 4:16 call to the emergency services was made but it is clear we are still not being given an accurate account of what happened at the bench in those first few minutes.
Why is that?
Operational Reasons / National Security / Ongoing Criminal Investigation???
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22pc+alex+way%22+salisbury&client=firefox-b-d&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=cnl0qqj0UGf_QM%253A%252COAQK6Pcybo2qUM%252C_&usg=AI4_-kRK2muvncPzw2dx7VQm2IosPus4uQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiS-MD2yJ_gAhXRx4UKHZHcBnIQ9QEwB3oECAYQCg#imgrc=cnl0qqj0UGf_QM:
First Responder Escort Officer Janet Bald
https://wiltshire-police.tal.net/vx/mobile-0/appcentre-External/brand-3/candidate/so/pm/6/pl/1/opp/25-ESCORT-OFFICER/en-GB
The presence of an Escort Officer indicates to me the possibility that someone had been or was about to be detained by the police
First Responder PC Alex Way talking to Chief Pilot of now defunct Heli Charter Ltd George Lawrence he was piloting the Wilts Air Ambulance that day (pic 8/25)
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16064166.russian-spy-is-one-of-two-in-hospital-after-medical-emergency-at-maltings/
@Liane
Here is the picture Peter mentions:
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/resources/images/7485883/
Is that one of the police cars that was destroyed?
If Alex Way was a first responder, that car must have been dripping with novihoax…
Surprising it didn’t contaminate George as well.
It was on Liane’s list, Paul, and from somewhere I garnered the nugget that the driver of this vehicle spoke to the Air Ambulance pilot.
I thought I was keeping up but apparently not.
So the story now is;
Ms Holloway and Mr Collins get there first (from the police except the two that are already there)
Then Ms Way and Ms Bald turn up and Ms Way goes to see the pilot of the air ambulance ……. and so they have to bury her car.
Is that where we are?
“Is that where we are?”
It might be, if you are wont to assume that the more recent the info, the more reliable it is.
As far as I can tell, the first mention of Holloway and Bald, and Collins and Way, as first responders was when the PM visited Salisbury:
https://twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/974281426387587074
https://twitter.com/wiltshirepolice/status/974285225168658433
Back in March, there didn’t appear to be a Collins’n’Holloway double act. Now there is.
(You know this already, but some others here may not.)
Is Chief Pilot asking Police for assistance in finding his lost
missing Paramedic?
Yep. If MI6 was trying to replicate the Operation Hades script, then the idea would be to arrest the smugglers minus the spy in the act.
There is an interesting part from Operation Hades in this link – in German.
https://www.zeit.de/1995/52/Die_Abgruende_der_Operation_Hades/seite-2
“Auch die Anbieter scheinen dem BND bekannt, handelt es sich doch “um eine ukrainisch/russische Gruppe, die Beziehungen in höchste Regierungskreise der Ukraine haben und über Kontaktlinien zur russischen Botschaft in Madrid und zur spanischen Vertretung in Kiew haben soll”.”
The sellers seem to be known to BND as they are a Ukrainian/Russian group with relations to highest Ukrainian government circles and contact lines to the Russian embassy in Madrid and to the Spanish representation in Kiew.
Skripal was based in Madrid in 1995, Urban claims that 1995 was the year he was recruited.
His name is Jared Yalden (from Kier Pritchard’s twitter thread) and his unique name reveals him to be a Detective Constable. He’s about the same age as DSNB – slightly younger – so he may have been DSNB’s buddy on 4 March, and/or he’s maybe the other mystery poisoning patient. One of DSNB’s work colleagues, anyway
Or he’s a random member of Wiltshire Police, in uniform for the day, and I dunno maybe he’s won the Meet the Maybot lottery or summat.
Why the French – there is a French initiative
“International Partnership Against Impunity for the Use of Chemical Weapons”
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/french-foreign-policy/disarmament-and-non-proliferation/events/article/international-partnership-against-impunity-for-the-use-of-chemical-weapons
Is that an ‘initiative’ or an ‘agenda’?
Formed in January 2018… just in time for Douma, Salisbury… why do I think of the ‘Integrity Initiative’ when I read their webpage?
https://www.noimpunitychemicalweapons.org/-en-.html
Paul – To answer your question: it’s an agenda masqueurading as an initiative and promoted via a proxy by an ‘Initiative’. It simply oozes the II style nd modus operandi.
“Chemical Weapons – No Impunity
The International Partnership Against the Impunity for the Use of Chemical Weapons has just been launched!
“Ringing together around 30 countries and international organizations, its purpose is to supplement the international mechanisms to combat the proliferation of chemical weapons. This intergovernmental initiative deals exclusively with the issue of impunity for the perpetrators of chemical attacks worldwide, and is a forum for cooperation in which the participating States have made several commitments that include gathering, compiling, and retaining all available information on those who use chemical weapons, etc.” Efforts like this are increasingly needed as the use of chemical weapons in Syria has been met with little adverse outcome for those at fault. GMU’s Dr. Gregory Koblentz highlighted Syria’s CW killchain, noting that “Bringing these criminals to justice, however, will be a long, slow, and difficult process. Many individuals who comprise Syria’s chemical weapons kill chain were listed in a U.N. Security Council resolution that was vetoed by Russia and China on Feb. 28.” Koblentz also points out that “So far, the only concrete steps to hold these individuals accountable for their actions are financial sanctions and travel bans imposed by the U.S. and European governments. Although the sanctions themselves are largely symbolic, by identifying these individuals and specifying their role in the chemical attacks, the United States and its European allies are laying the groundwork for future prosecutions once Assad is no longer in power.”
https://pandorareport.org/tag/chemical-weapons/page/2/
This outfit is headed by Prof Gregory Koblentz, the same man who ‘likes’ supports the Integrity Initiative’s Twitter posts. I also found this tantalising snippet:
“Jew Gregory Koblentz of George Mason University said: Given President-elect Trump’s professed interest in improving relations with Russia, it is unlikely that …” The rest is missing.
He heads the Department of Public and International Affairs and Director of the Biodefense Graduate Program at George Mason University…. is an Associate Faculty at the Center for Global Studies at GMU. …is a Research Affiliate with the Security Studies Program at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and a member of the Scientist Working Group on Chemical and Biological Weapons at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation in Washington, DC. His research and teaching focus on international security and weapons of mass destruction.”
“Dr Sonia Ben Ouagrham, Assistant Professor in the Biodefense Program… served 10 years as a Senior Research Associate at the Monterey Institute of International Studies, Center for Nonproliferation Studies (CNS)… Editor-in-Chief of the International Export Control Observer, a monthly newsletter devoted to the analysis of WMD export control issues in the world… was also an adjunct professor at the School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS), Johns Hopkins University, where she taught a course on WMD in the former Soviet Union (FSU).”
“Saskia Popescu is a doctoral student at GMU Biodefense and editor of the Pandora Report… an infectious disease epidemiologist and infection preventionist whose work focuses on hospital biopreparedness after she managed response to the 2014 Ebola outbreak… holds a MPH in infectious disease epidemiology, a MA in international security studies, and is certified in infection prevention”.
https://pandorareport.org/about/contributors/
Join the dots.
That is an interesting bit of digging!
Here is the missing bit from your quote:
“Given President-elect Trump’s professed interest in improving relations with Russia, it is unlikely that one of his first diplomatic acts will be to force Russia to veto yet another resolution on Syria,” said Gregory Koblentz, the director of the biodefense graduate program at George Mason University. “Holding the Assad regime accountable for its use of chemical weapons and other war crimes is likely a lost cause.”
The rest of the article is well worth reading as well – they really are clowns:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/01/12/u-s-allies-slam-brakes-on-obamas-parting-blow-at-putin/
Is the idea that the “good guys” (America and friends) can use chemical weapons with impunity but the “bad guys” (Russia and friends) cannot?
16th March 2018
The Times
“Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.
STEPHEN DAVIES, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust”
This is very much open to interpretation.
1) “no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury” – That’s clear, there was no Novichok
2) “there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning” – So Sergei, Yulia and the policeman were “significantly poisoned” but not with Novichok. It could be just that they drank too much in the pub.
3) “No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved”. – What agent is that? I thought we had established that there was no nerve agent involved.
True, Blunderbuss, except that it’s most unlikely that Sergei and Yulia were poisoned at all, however, the bench couple were.
“3) “No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved”. – What agent is that? I thought we had established that there was no nerve agent involved.”
I understood it to mean that ‘the public’ means any ‘concerned’ anyone who is neither a member of the emergency services nor the armed forces (effectively, anyone outside a cordon) was poisoned by whatever substance affected the Skripals and/or DSNB.
Tssk, or even the ‘bench couple’ rather than Sergei and Yulia.
According to Rob, Dr Davies later rescinded this statement, claiming that bad editing on the part of The Times had misrepresented his intended meaning. Apparently they chose to excise the word ‘other’ from the doctor’s original phrase, ‘no other patients’. (http://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-clearing-up-a-mess-left-by-the-times/).
Feasible, yes. Plausible, no, since the presence of ‘other’ in that phrase would 1. imply a (grammatical) subject he does even mention and 2. actually render the entire clause redundant.
Being a literate individual, he need only have written: ‘there have only ever been three patients with nerve agent poisoning.’
Re my comment above: For ‘does’ please read ‘does not’.
Pyotr Petrovich Kirpichev led Foliant program
A-1972 developed by Kirpichev in 1972 – liquid form
B-1976 and C-1976 developed by Vladimir Uglev in 1976 – liquid form
D-1980 developed by Kirpichev in early 1980s – powder form
They have nerve paralyzing effect but differ in their precursor and usage
Under Kirpichev several hundred modification of this class of agents were discovered
From a blood sample its possible to determine where produced
From their records they could determine who produced it and when
“Novichok” is not a binary agent “The toxin is transferred via two less dangerous substances when it is time to use the chemical agent.”
1993 OPCW ignored statement by Uglev and Mirzayanov of their existence
Uglev has no knowledge of single binary chemical weapons for period up until 1994
From March 27
https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/former-opcw-official-no-conclusive-proof-of-russian-complicity-in-salisbury-attack-1ae3749ba38e
According to the Clingandael Institute, the US did not address its concerns about Russia’s undeclared Novichok capability through the OPCW: “The US decided to address these concerns through bilateral channels, rather than directly engaging formal OPCW mechanisms.”
Dr. Trapp’s analysis throws further light on the murky details of what Russian and Western governments know about the nerve agent that was used on Sergei and Yulia Skripal. His last post at the OPCW was Secretary of its Scientific Advisory Board. Since 2006, he has been a consultant on disarmament of chemical and biological weapons for the European Commission and several UN agencies.
Dr. Trapp confirmed that at least some Western countries “would have done their own research to be able to characterise these chemicals and be able to identify them by chemical analysis should they ever be used. That is perfectly legitimate under the CWC, which allows, for good reasons, countries to continue work in chemical protection, to acquire, synthesise and investigate toxic and precursor chemicals to this end, and to work on such issues as detection, identification, protection and medical countermeasures, decontamination and other technical aspects of protection.”
Asked if Mirzayanov’s claims had ever been corroborated, Trapp said that they had been “verified in a legal sense: not corroborated.”
Referring to Russian efforts to prosecute Mirzayanov for divulging state secrets when he first criticised the Soviet CW programme, Trapp added that:
“As the original affair in Russia to an extent was played out in public, Western secret services will surely have picked up on that at the time, and some labs will have worked on ‘re-engineering’ these types of chemicals to see whether the claims could be true and to have data on these agents in their reference libraries.”
Bilateral meetings between the US and Russia did provide confirmation of the programme, however, in the context of the Wyoming Agreement and the Bilateral Destruction Agreement. The latter “never entered into force but the data exchanges and some site visits and clarification meetings were conducted between the two countries,” said Dr Trapp.
“In those discussions, the Russians never disputed the factual claims by Mirzayanov, including the research and development work on Novichoks, the agents involved etc. They merely disagreed with the US interpretation as to what, if any, of this would be declarable under the agreed rules of data exchange, which also were reflected in the rules of the CWC declaration system and ambiguities regarding what needed to be declared under development of CW.”
To Paul
I’ve put an answer to your French question below but you might not have seen it. The Russians were asking the same question, why the French were involved but not them.
Those are indeed the questions I was referring to – but why did Russia pose those questions to France? I have always thought it implies Russia knew more than it is saying about what really happened and this was intended as a warning to TPTB.
Let us be very clear of what Porton Down’s submission to the High Court means.
If it was false then it is a very serious situation.
And if it was true it is even more serious.
If it was true they did not know what the poison was, where it came from or the pathology that the poison would take.
PHE made up false advice, the police acted on false information, May, Johnson and other Ministers gave false statements to the HoC and our allies who took unproven punitive actions against Russia and continue to do so.
So what is it? Did PD lie to the High Court or did HMG lie to everyone else?
If it was false (PD Submission to the High Court) then it means they knew what the Poison was and were able to identify it so quickly because they had reference samples / data.
It means PD were the only people in the world known to possess the “Stuff”. It means they kept that knowledge from the OPCW.
It means PD continue to create New Nerve Agents in Secret.
To clarify the question:
Did Porton Down know precisely what the substance was or did they just have a vague idea.
The truthful answer to either of those options is enough to put individuals in prison for the rest of their lives.
That is the gravity and enormity of the question.
But lying to the House of Commons only gets you a one-day ban.
One from the recent past…hard to keep up with the ever-changing tale.
Headline from the Mail On Sunday (and others) reported on 16th September 2018
“Novichok suspects’ drug-fuelled night of cannabis and prostitutes at £75-a- night East London hotel just hours before Salisbury attack
Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov reportedly kept guests awake at hotel
Witnesses say cannabis wafted from their twin room at City Stay Hotel, London
Furious guest complained after the pair smuggled a prostitute into room for sex”
Later in the article…
“They have been charged with conspiracy to murder the Skripals and DETECTIVE SERGEANT NICK BAILEY (my capitals), who fell ill after rushing to the aid of the couple after they were found collapsed on March 4th”…..er but not according to Panorama…
“Security forces say evidence will only be produced if the two Russian agents are brought to trial”
Apart from this being arguably the most laughable episode of the charade, is it not possible to bring a trial in their absence ? The witnesses to this little episode would provide some more lurid headlines but we would get EVIDENCE.
Something HMG are constantly denying us plebs.
DS Nick Bailey….Yes….Very Strange Hero? A Major piece
in this Jigsaw Puzzle. Got doubts about this Chap and his
unorthodox actions 04-03-18.
Was Bailey using his DS ranking to gain access to Porton Down or meeting
an Employee for collection of something?
The very strange actions of his on 04-03-18 seem that Bailey was in a Panic.
Was he trying to recover-destroy evidence implicating himself with Skripals?
What did he do in field at rear of his house?
A very strange Hero..Who has lost everything?
Was this a honey trap? A prostitute employed by MI56 to get information out of BnP?
All starting to fit together now-fall in place!! Tech side beyond me
so Well Done Everyone Working On This Case-Lie.
Good Work Everyone,Keep Digging!
What is the Truth about the Chemical found in Salisbury and Amesbury?
RUSSIAN FEDERATION AIDE MEMOIRE ON ENHANCEMENT OF THE CHEMICAL WEAPONS CONVENTION – April 2018
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/EC/M-59/en/ecm59nat04_e_.pdf
The above Aide-Memoire explains the extent to which Novichoks were known and included in the CAS / OCAD Databases
Recent Developments
The New Chemical Discovered in Salisbury and Amesbury does not fit into any Chemical Group Currently in the OPCW Database – a new Category had to be created.
The Iranians Synthesised 5 Novichoks plus 4 Hybrids in 2016 under the Guidence of the OPCW these were added to the OPCW database
http://www.spectroscopynow.com/details/ezine/1591ca249b2/Iranian-chemists-identify-Russian-chemical-warfare-agents.html?tzcheck=1,1,1&&tzcheck=1
“The authors succeeded in synthesising and obtaining detailed mass spectral data on a series of unusual nerve agents. The data have been added to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons’ Central Analytical Database (OCAD)”
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/62nd-executive-council-meeting-of-the-opcw
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B%28e%29.pdf
https://cen.acs.org/policy/chemical-weapons/Novichok-nerve-agents-added-Chemical/97/i3
OPCW Guidelines for Schedules of Chemicals
https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-chemicals/annex-chemicals
Current chemicals in schedule 1
https://www.opcw.org/chemical-weapons-convention/annexes/annex-chemicals/schedule-1
Scheduled Chemicals Database 2018
https://apps.opcw.org/cas/default.aspx
Handbook for Chemicals
https://www.opcw.org/resources/declarations/handbook-chemicals
That is a fantastic piece of work!
Your spectroscopynow.com link clearly proves that by no later than 1 January, 2017, the OPCW had included Novichok in its database.
Your link to Peter Wilson’s speech on 14 January, 2019, states that the chemical used in Salisbury and Amesbury is the family of chemicals that are NOW to be added to the OPCW’s database!
“The proposal covers the chemical weapon that was used in my country less than a year ago. It was intended to cause death and tragically it did so.”
Which means that it could not possibly be Novichok that was used in Salisbury and Amesbury because that was already in the OPCW’s database.
This makes one point very clear: the UK could not possibly permit Russia to be involved in the investigation because it would be immediately clear that it was not Novichok but perhaps it would also have given Russia information about a chemical that it did not know about.
It is also clear that if this chemical was not in the OPCW’s database, then it must have been an experimental chemical (which rules out any of the known and discussed alternatives such as BZ) and it clearly points the finger at somewhere such experimantal chamicals are being developed.
You mean like the top secret US Facilities at Porton Down whose staff are directly employed by the US and are protected by diplomatic immunity. How do these facilities stand legally with regard to OPCW and Chemical Weapons Convention. Are they operating under the radar? Who knows what they are doing if they don’t have to tell anyone?
We also keep returning to the question of “what did France know?” And why did Russia address questions specifically to France?
On 14 March, 2018, at the meeting of the UN Security Council, FRANÇOIS DELATTRE, French Ambassador to the UN, said:
“A substance, never declared to OPCW, had been used in a European country.”
As we now know, Novichok had been declared to OPCW, so where had M. Delattre’s incorrect briefing come from?
https://www.un.org/press/en/2018/sc13247.doc.htm
French never forgive us for “Nelson”
To Paul
https://www.rusemb.org.uk/fnapr/6449
02.04.2018
Russia’s questions to France regarding the Skripal case fabricated against Russia by the United Kingdom
On March 31, the Embassy of the Russian Federation in Paris delivered to the French Foreign Ministry a note with a list of questions to the French side regarding the Skripal case fabricated against Russia:
1. On what grounds did France become involved in the technical side of the United Kingdom’s investigation of the incident in Salisbury?
2. Has France officially notified the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) of its involvement in the technical side of the investigation of the incident in Salisbury?
3. What evidence did the United Kingdom hand over to France as part of the technical side of the investigation?
4. Were French specialists present when biological samples were collected from Sergey and Yulia Skripal?
5. Did French specialists conduct their own tests of the biological samples collected from Sergey and Yulia Skripal and, if so, at which specific laboratory?
6. Based on which attributes did the French specialists conclude that the chemical warfare agent of the Novichok type (in accordance to British terminology) or its analogues were used in this case?
7. What expert knowledge does France have in studying chemical warfare agents of this type or its analogues?
8. Based on which attributes (markers) was the alleged “Russian origin” of the substance used in Salisbury established by French specialists?
9. Does France have control samples of the Novichok chemical warfare agent (in accordance to British terminology) or its analogues?
10. Have samples of the chemical warfare agent of this type or its analogues been developed in France and, if so, for what purpose?
Boris Johnson announced in an interview that the reason Porton Down were able to identify it is because they had a sample of it.
Which suggests that PD had possession of a Chemical it had not registered with the OPCW.
And where is the evidence that Russia worked with this New Chemical?
“You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?”
“Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …”
“So they have the samples …”
“They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said “there’s no doubt”. We have very little alternative but to take the action that we have taken.”
https://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-russias-position-in-skripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/a-43043873
You beat me to it! I was thinking the same thing.
PLUS: Is this why the OPCW merely ‘confirmed’ the UK’s identification instead of saying what it actually was?
Novichok was in the OPCW database but as Peter Wilson has now confirmed, the Salisbury/Amesbury chemical wasn’t. So the OPCW was not in possession of the data needed to identify it… presumably the UK/US provided that data for the purpose of the OPCW’s analysis… but it still left the OPCW with the problem that they were being asked to confirm a nerve agent that was not in their database.
The evidence says it was not a Novichok.
Whatever it was there is no evidence that it came from Russia or they knew anything about it.
Common sense says no self respecting, would be, assassin he would not use an aerosol / atomiser to coat a door handle with Nerve Agent for the Simple reason it would kill them.
And no witnesses at the bench gave a description of Yulia or Sergei Skripal. The only witnesses who gave descriptions indicated it was not the Skripals who were at the bench.
Not a good place for the government, police and other agencies to be. The evidence is they have commissioned a ludicrous Hoax and Covered it Up ridiculous lies.
Peter ‘Wilson’s words preclude the possibility that it was Novichok!
“The proposal covers the chemical weapon that was used in my country less than a year ago. It was intended to cause death and tragically it did so.”
And this was confirmed by the French Ambassador to the UN, (how did he know?):
“A substance, never declared to OPCW, had been used in a European country.”
That Dawn was NOT murdered by Novichok but by some new type of nerve agent, is surely information of relevance to the coroner.
The OPCW and Porton Down are now arguing that Incapacitants are actually now best described as Nerve Agents.
In much the same way an Axe could be described as a Nerve Agent if it used to chop someone’s head off. The Central Nervous System can be badly disrupted by Incapacitants such as Synthetic Opiate Cocktails and Axes.
Paul, when the Iranians synthesised the nerve agents, they called them Novichoks.
This academic work was well before the Skripal poisoning.
The Iranian paper was published, then later became an article in Spectroscopy Now.
In that 2107 article the Spectroscopy Now author said that the Iranian work, (formulae, spectra, molecular structure) had been passed to OPCW , which means Porton Down too.
Some obvious conclusions based on this:
The Iranian were aware of the Novichok class of nerve agents.
The “nerve agent” community was completely aware regarding the chemical nature of these compounds, simply by reading at least (there are probably other papers) the Iranian work.
BUT
We are lead to believe that despite this, this class of compound was NOT on the OPCW list of chemical weapons OR known to Porton Down.
In addition,despite being produced some 2 years ealier in a Iranian lab, we are told by HMG that ONLY the Russian state could access this type of nerve agent. The Novichok family.
John Helmer on Gorilla Radio
http://www.gorilla-radio.com/2019/02/01/gorilla-radio-chris-cook-astra-taylor-john-helmer-janine-bandcroft-january-31st-2019/
starting at 36:00 to “Skripal poisoned himself”
see also:
http://johnhelmer.net/gorilla-radio-reveals-what-really-happened-to-sergei-skripal/
John Helmer believes that Skripal poisoned himself by accident. What he hasn’t said is why Skripal was in possession of the poison. Presumably he was going to hand it over to somebody and dropped the bottle in the process. Helmer thinks it might have been an MI6 operation or a private operation.
PnB played no part in the poisoning. The Russians knew in advance about the operation and sent PnB over to “make themselves obvious”. This was to let the British spooks know that Russia knew about the operation.
Have I got it right?
Where would the poison have gone if Skripal hadn’t dropped the bottle? My guess is that it was headed for Syria to be used in a “false flag” operation.
Was Skripal a regular conduit for poisons moving from Porton Down to Syria? Was the loft in his house being used for storage of poisons awaiting shipment? This would explain why the roof had to be removed.
Like your thinking-theory!
The only reason why this could be the case is that official Britain would wish to have nothing to do with it. Russia has nothing “the West” cannot produce.
The reason this happened in Germany before – see operation Hades – was 1 elections
2 pressure put on Russia to agree on weapons inspections.
@anidea 3:20 pm
Operation Hades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium_affair
“The BND was mainly criticized for the fact that its initial investigations had resulted in the smuggling of plutonium to Germany, without any safety precautions and ignoring all related concerns”.
Substitute MI6 for BND and there are similarities to the Skripal affair.
“Substitute MI6 for BND and there are similarities to the Skripal affair.”
Fully agree.
Unfortunately the Operation Hades Wiki only scratches the surface of the scandal. There was much more, but that´s not the point here.
The reason why the roof had to be removed is the same as the reason why Zizzi had to be “decontaminated” and why the “decontamination” took many months. It is all for a public show.
It is being reported that senior Venezuelan military defectors have appealed to Trump for help.
Well it is just more lies!! The ‘defectors’ were not wearing the correct uniforms – just more actors!!
“The badges on their uniform say FAN – Fuerza Armada Nacionales. This is an outdated pattern, which has been dropped.”
https://southfront.org/setting-scene-for-regime-change-in-venezuela-army-defectors-russian-mercenaries-and-disappearing-gold/
So it’s the “White Helmets” routine all over gain.
TPTB know that the MSM is totally compliant and will publish whatever rubbish they are given. But TPTB are really not very smart and make lots of silly mistakes in their haste to fake the news.
Judge refuses to publish list of political groups spied on by police:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/31/judge-refuses-to-publish-list-of-groups-that-have-been-spied-on
https://thebell.io/en/the-scientist-who-developed-novichok-doses-ranged-from-20-grams-to-several-kilos/
This is just an extract:
Q. Is it possible to say with confidence that Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were poisoned with an agent from the “Novichok” series, or could it be confused with a nerve agent like for example VX?
A. It’s unlikely to be confused with VX, but with Zoman and Zarin, it’s possible, but only before the laboratory investigation has begun. The chemical agents in our, as you called it, series, are extremely tenacious.
Q. In a recent interview which he gave to “Novaya Gazets”, Mirzayanov says that a comparative analysis was most likely conducted using samples from the victims of the poisoning, by comparing these samples with a formula which British specialist could have taken from his book. Could that be true?
A. If you take a formula from that book you could conduct screening for several years. But specific agents and precursors for these agents are not included in his book.
Q. How could the person who poisoned Skripal and his daughter have done so without putting himself in danger?
A. Agents should be transported in a container suitable for combat use. It is likely that within this container the chemical agents were put on some kind of carrier (cotton balls, powder, ready-made poisonous elements). All of the container’s external surfaces must be covered in a degassing solution and wiped with a solvent. Therefore, the person who carried out the attack does not need to defend himself.
Q. Why is Russia demanding that the British send a blood sample from the victims?
A. From the remains of the chemical agents in the blood, it is possible, with the aid of various types of analyses, to determine where the specific dose was produced and by whom. I suspect that modern methods of analysis have even improved on what we had some 30 years ago.
Another extract.
“Is there even a minimal chance that the victims of the poisoning might recover?
– If Skripal and his daughter received a lethal dose of B-1976, C-1976, or D-1980, then, most likely, they will suffer the same fate as earlier victims. There is no antidote to these agents. I can say with nearly 100% certainty that if Skripal and his daughter are taken off of life support, they will die,”
Well, that clears it up…..
“One of these substances was used to poison the banker, Ivan Kivelidi and his secretary in 1995. A cotton ball, soaked in this agent, was rubbed over the microphone in the handset of Kivelidi’s telephone. That specific dose was developed by my group, where we produced all of the chemical agents, and each dose which we developed was given its own complete physical-chemical passport. It was therefore not difficult to determine who had prepared that dose and when it was developed. Naturally, the investigators also suspected me. I was questioned several times about this incident.”
So basically, GCHQ could identify where it was produced and when. Craig Murray says GCHQ refused to say that Russia had produced it, because they know they didn’t, but they also know who did. Gary Aitkenhead was also very reluctant to call it “Novichok” but had been pressurised into it by the government. It’s also significant that he made his statement after government recess.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/03/20/one-of-the-russian-inventors-of-novichok-says-russia-isn-t-to-blame-also-he-may-have-sold-poisons-from-his-garage-in-the-1990s
One of the Russian inventors of ‘Novichok’ says Russia isn’t to blame in Britain. Also he may have sold poisons from his garage in the 1990s.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/04/portonblimp-down-episode-2-a-tale-by-boris-johnson/
Since Rob announced his semi-retirement from Skripal World there have been a number of revelations (in no particular order)
Acting CC Kier Pritchard was not telling the truth about the first responders being decontaminated overnight on Sunday 4th March;
“CC Pritchard said officers at the scene underwent a “decontamination process” at Salisbury District Hospital overnight on Sunday and into Monday morning, after details of the attack became clearer.”
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16270991.kier-pritchard-says-ds-nick-bailey-poisoned-at-skripal-house/
The first police officer on the scene was not DS Bailey but that accolade of heroism goes jointly to PC Collins and Sgt Holloway. Not only was PC Collins not sent for decontamination that night he didn’t even have a wash.
“Collins went off shift. Instinct told him to get changed and he left the clothes he had been wearing in his garage. “I’m glad I did that,” he said. “I was intending to have a shower but I was so knackered I just climbed into bed and fell asleep.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/14/we-did-our-best-police-who-rushed-to-skripal-scene-tell-of-shock-and-pride
Sgt Hollaway handled both the victims without wearing gloves and this included Sergei’s wallet which contained the card which he used for payment in Zizzis;
“Collins, a police medic, put on gloves to handle the patients. Holloway remembers examining Sergei Skripal’s wallet with bare hands. The officers handled both the Skripals.”
CID did turn up eventually but were not much help;
“The uniformed officers called CID and a duty inspector. They helped get the Skripals into ambulances. Sergei was still rigidly fixed in a sitting position, so it was hard to manoeuvre him on to a stretcher. CID officers attended. “They were like: ‘That’s fine, everything’s OK’, and off they went again,” said Holloway.”
The first “medical” responder turned out to be Army Chief Nurse Col McCourt who along with her daughter placed the female at the bench onto the ground and into the recovery position. Another passer-by, Jamie Paine, assisted at the scene.
Another revelation has been that the poison that affected the bench couple and also the Amesbury victims Dawn and Charlie was only added to the OPCW’s schedule of banned chemicals this month (Jan 2019). The chemical identified did not fit into any existing banned groups and a new category of chemicals had to be created by the OPCW so that the substance could be registered with them.
This raises a number of questions;
The OPCW are aware of Novichoks, in 2016 under the watchful eye of the OPCW, 5 Novichoks plus 4 hybrids were synthesised by the Iranians and the formulas / manufacturing methods published. The Iranian Novichoks were added to the OPCW database.
But these Iranian Novichoks do not belong in the same group as the chemical found in Salisbury and Amesbury. So if the Wiltshire poison isn’t a Novichok, what is it?
And how did Porton Down know what it was?
Boris Johnson told the Russian Ambassador to Britain that the Wiltshire poison detected was identified by Porton Down as Novichok A-234.
But he also said in an interview that Porton Down had a sample of it and that is how they identified it.
Yet the OPCW had not seen this chemical before, it was New to them and they had to create a new Category to register it in the Schedules of banned substances.
Had Porton Down not registered their knowledge of the substance with the OPCW? It appears not. And did they originally mis-identify it as A-234 or a “related compound” or “closely related agent”?
If so was the allegation made in the HoC by Theresa May based on a flawed analysis? That allegation and it subsequent punitive reprisals against Russia by Britain and more than 2 dozen other countries may yet lead to war with Russia.
And if it is now true that the substance identified in Wiltshire is New and fits into no previously known category of Chemical Weapon then how could it possibly be deduced that it originated in Russia and the Russian State was responsible? The answer to that question is quite simple it can’t.
These are all questions that the Wilshire Coroner and the Jury in Dawn’s Inquest may want to consider;
The Veracity of the government and her agencies evidence on the matter
And
What the poison actually is and if it is possible to determine the source?
How it came into the possession of Charlie and why the striking differences of development of symptoms between the Skripals (2 and half hours onset), Bailey (3 days), Charlie (8+ hrs), Dawn (15mins).
Why was a weapon designed to coat a door handle put into an atomiser which would likely kill the person applying it, why not paint it on a la Nail Varnish?
Where did the offending bottle sit between March 4th and June 30th, what was its journey from the Russian suspects to Charlie’s kitchen? Had the Amesbury bottle anything to do with the Salisbury poisonings other than containing the same “New” substance?
Was it a “Nerve Agent”? The OPCW advice (nerve agents in general) take 20-30 mins to effect a person with clinical symptoms when absorbed through the skin.
Public Health England (Porton Down) advice regarding “this stuff”, the New stuff was clinical symptoms appear in a minimum of 3 hours and a maximum of 12.
Now given the OPCW hadn’t seen the New Stuff before but Porton Down had samples of it, I think Porton Down’s estimate on latency of symptoms may be the more reliable but it does confirm, in my view at least, that the Wiltshire substance, the New Stuff was Not a Nerve Agent and Not a Novichok.
Very thorough. Is there a danger that TM could pull Blair’s stroke of ordering a public inquiry and skittle this evidence at a stroke? (aren’t coroner’s now obliged to go along with the findings of such?)
That is a fear but Interested Parties would still be represented at the public inquiry.
With Hutton / Kelly, the witnesses were not required to give evidence on oath
No Standard of Proof was applied, no second opinions, no cross examination, no sworn evidence.
Hutton had no Coronial experience, no medical qualification, he had no legal power to rule on the cause of death, only a Coroner or a Jury if one sits has that power.
And yes you are right the Law has now been amended so if a public inquiry finds the Cause of death was Suicide and the Coroner learns proof from new evicdence that the public inquiry got it wrong and it was murder / accident / unlawful killing the Coroner is bound by Law to record the death as Suicide. Only another change in the law can put that right but because it is “such a useful little law” (Falconer) it is never likely to be changed and the Travesty may occur again
119.Paragraph 9(11) prevents the resumed senior coroner’s investigation from reaching a conclusion which is inconsistent with the outcome of the inquiry which triggered the suspension or any criminal proceedings that had to be concluded before it could be resumed. For example, if the outcome of an inquiry was a finding that a particular individual had committed suicide, a senior coroner’s investigation cannot conclude that the particular individual was unlawfully killed.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/25/notes/division/5/1/1/1/11/8
Re-reading para 118 in the above link is slightly ominous.
The Coroner could be ordered to suspend the Inquest until the criminal investigation is completed and as that looks like it will never happen …………
Thank you for the additional info. Much appreciated. The ‘shackling’ of a coroner’s findings to those of a public inquiry is IMO an ominous move, since it overwrites at a stroke what should be an outcome independent of any other opinion or finding, including of course those sponsored by government. It is an unsubtle breach of the principle of the separation of powers, in this case one which hamstrings the judiciary.
Peter, Excellent summary.
I think, unfortunately, you will be proved correct.
HMG will claim that EAW have been issued, and the investigation continues.
Although we know this should not affect the Coroner in determining “how” Dawn died, I sadly think that adjournment will be the result.
The other part of that reality is that the two agents will never be arrested, which I believe is entirely what HMG hope for.
“118. Under paragraphs 9(4), 9(6), 9(8) and 9(10) the investigation may not be resumed before such criminal proceedings have ended __unless a prosecuting authority or the Director of Service Prosecutions (as the case may be) has told the senior coroner that there is no objection to the investigation being resumed.__”
It is possible for the senior coroner’s investigation to continue in parallel with the inquiry. Perhaps we can urge our MPs to urge the prosecuting authority or the Director of Service Prosecutions to allow the coroner’s investiaton to resume. There is certainly a lot of public interest for this to happen.
Peter, I am astonished that this is in fact written into UK law. This is very worrying. This would effectively gag serior coroners from publishing their professional findings if the findings are at odds with those of an inquiry. What is a coroner to do if their findings are inconsistent with an inquiry?
What should happen is that an inquiry should come up with their conclusions, and the senior coroner should also come up their own conclusions. If it is desired that the conclusions of an inquiry should take precendence over the conclusions of a senior coroner’s investigation, then a provision could be added to the Coroners and Justice Act to state this.
But as stands currently, 119. Paragraph 9(11) appears to force senior coroners to come to a conclusion that may not be their genuine pofessional conclusion. This is quite Orwellian. It certainly does seem to be put in to allow government enquiries to force senior coroners to go along with what the government want them to conclude.
Doodlebug and Peter, you suggested that this is a fairly recent amendment. Does anyone know when this was amended and what the rationale?
Is this the kind of thing constituents could write to their MPs to suggest be changed?
“For example, if the outcome of an inquiry was a finding that a particular individual had committed suicide, a senior coroner’s investigation cannot conclude that the particular individual was unlawfully killed.”
Thanks, Peter, that’s a good summary and one that would ideally be addressed by a public enquiry – which, of course, isn’t going to happen.
For the reasons Duncan outlines, I imagine that anything of genuine public curiosity value will not be mentioned in a public domain coroner’s court.
My sole experience as an interested party in a high profile case is that all and only that needs to be covered by the inquest is sufficient to issue a death certificate. Clearly the basic details about Dawn will be known and all that remains to be established is the cause(s) of death.
All and anything else may be disregarded by the coroner. The coroner’s discretion is also applied when considering the request, by an established interested party present at the inquest, for a full transcript of the court proceedings once this is available …
… as ever, the laws and the rules are ever so bendy when interpreted by an experienced practitioner.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/
“I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve agent as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them to do so. Porton Down would only sign up to the formulation “of a type developed by Russia” after a rather difficult meeting where this was agreed as a compromise formulation.”
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/
I have now received confirmation from a well placed FCO source that Porton Down scientists are not able to identify the nerve agent as being of Russian manufacture, and have been resentful of the pressure being placed on them to do so. Porton Down would only sign up to the formulation “of a type developed by Russia” after a rather difficult meeting where this was agreed as a compromise formulation.
Yes, a very good summary.
I am not sure about the “related” family chemistry stuff. It could be that A-234 exists by description of Mirzayanov only, and that the people who constructed this incident tried to follow a generic recipe that could have many interpretations (as Mirzayanov’s addition to his book was certainly not meant as a terrorist cookbook – as a matter of fact, he said so). Chemists are extremely quiet on the case, presumably because it is politicized and they do not have scientific information.
So the “new Novichok” could be created for its open source documentation (not wishing to use the Iranian recipe).
There is no practical reason for the choice of poison that I can see except its propaganda value.
There seems to be no other documentation for the Foliant programme than Mirzayanov’s book.
https://www.ft.com/content/3c279804-3b44-11e8-b7e0-52972418fec4
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https://www.ft.com/content/3c279804-3b44-11e8-b7e0-52972418fec4
“I have no doubt that it was precisely A-234 which was used!” Mr Uglev said in comments emailed to the Financial Times from his retirement home on the Black Sea coast.
He said judging by comments made by Porton Down scientists and other information he had received, the substance had to be the compound he had first synthesised in December 1975 at the State Scientific Research Institute of Organic Chemistry and Technology, in the southern Russian town of Shikhany.
Mr Uglev has spoken about the Skripal case before but his latest remarks go much further than previous comments.”
That would be 44 years ago. How likely this was the “same compound” indeed.
But Uglev recognized the structure. So presumably someone imitated it.
https://russia-insider.com/en/novichok-full-o-nuts-tweet-happy-local-police-chief-leaves-clues-skripal-affair/ri26116
There seems to be additional stuff here I have not been aware of …worth examining for loopholes.. John Helmer acknowledges Liane T’ s contributions to Skripal investigation as I am sure most would do.
Duh…..posting link that others have posted previously….oh well proves I still check out the blog.Best wishes to everyone.
Did I Just Witness That Correct On BBC News Propaganda?
“Theresa to return to Brussels” Glorious black-white footage
of Spitfire climbing into air then switching to formation of Fighters
in formation over Sleepy Blighty……….
Now then…Why BBC who Impartial keep playing the Britain Can Take It
Card? You cant be a Nazi-Commie-Racist as not PC……….
Dunkirk Theresa……Bloody Lire….O.K..BBC Said So!
Was this just an error by BBC NEWS?
“WE Will Fight Them On The Benches” As Dunkirk Theresa climb’s into
sunset in a Spitfire for a tussle with Tusk and Co in sky’s over Brussels.
Good Night from The BBC News Propaganda Team,Dont Have Nightmares.
We In Control Of Operational Requirements…Sleep Tight!!
Tell truth about Bailey and why Theresa told lies…Mr BBC Propaganda…
From John Helmer’s recent post we learn he is in receipt of a leaked police log of events that took place around the bench on 4th March and it details yet another revised timeline
First call made to emergency services 4:16 put this is a “silent call” another call with spoken concerns is received a little later.
(Wiltshire Air Ambulance logged their call at 4:19)
(from Helmer’s Leaked log)
“The Wiltshire police control room log’s next entry reads: “The police unit arrived first at 16:24 hours and an off-duty medical person at the scene stated to the officers that she believed the male and female (later identified as the Skripal’s) had taken something. Further units were tasked at 16:27 to keep back onlookers.”
Early reports based on Jenny’s Restaurant CCTV timestamp (I think) was police car arrived 4:15, paramedics running 4:17, paramedic car 4:18
The new timeline gives a far longer period of time between Freya Church leaving the scene and police / paramedics arriving.
Fortunately for the police they have the CCTV that will confirm precisely the timeline during those early minutes and who did what. Unfortunately for us that is secret for Operational Reasons / National Security / Ongoing Criminal Investigation.
New timeline says there is more than 20 minutes between Freya seeing the couple and the police arriving.
Witnesses present before Col McCourt and her daughter placed the female on the ground into the recovery position include Olly Field;
“There was some blonde bird laying on an old man’s shoulder doing this hand thing in the air,” he added.
”I just thought they were strung-out on heroin. There’s all sorts of homeless running around so I didn’t think too much of it.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sergei-skripal-poisoning-latest-russian-spy-daughter-substance-police-investigation-home-secretary-a8243746.html
From the research put together by Liane and others we can see the order in which witnesses were present, from the first sighting by Freya or Olly, then others that saw the female seated, there are those that were present when the female was place on the ground and some that describe the police arriving.
We don’t know however when the couple arrived at the bench or which route they took. The police know, we don’t for reasons already discussed.
Peter, John Helmer gave a link how a “silent call” works.
It takes some time until the anonymous caller can press the 55.
Therefore it is astonishing that WAA was alerted already 3 min. later.
Also how long did it take for daughter now present with a brother it seems to phone mother….how long the conversation what was its content eg mum theres people like this i think they need help what should I do….listens to advice….did she stay on the phone or hand it to brother so he could relay info back to mum etc etc how long for mother to walk over at what speed…..
https://www.sott.net/article/406044-Sergei-Skripals-niece-to-demand-Yulia-Skripal-a-Russian-citizen-be-declared-missing
“”In February it will have been a year since I last heard Yulia’s voice. … ”
Is this tantamount to Viktoria claiming that the call from ‘Yulia’ which was recorded broadcast on Russian national television, was bogus? Ditto the call from ‘Yulia’ on Elena’s birthday?
It’s possible that Viktoria was the victim of a hoax, and it’s a pity that she didn’t share such concerns with the Panorama crew when they visited Yelena. Or maybe she now thinks it was a hoax BBC crew … still, she’s keeping the story alive, and that may be what matters most.
Viktoria + pinch of salt = how seriously she can be taken
Official Russian statement on Victoria’s intention to declare Yulia missing
http://tass.com/world/1042346
There is no official British statement. Just the Reuters video.
Victoria is the only relative who can effectively challenge the British government with a claim that she (Sergei Skripal’s mother and Yulia Skripal’s grandmother) has a right to know.
I don’t dispute anything you say, anidea, my quibble is that Viktoria now seems to be claiming that she hasn’t spoken to Yulia since February 2018.
What now might be happening seems purely politically inspired and motivated. That said, for Yelena’s (not Elena’s, sorry) sake, Sergei and Yulia ought to be allowed contact with their ailing Russian relative; and a way ought to be found, for them to do so, even if Viktoria’s predilection for the publicity route has to be factored in.
Actually, Viktoria acting in her capacity as Yelena’s attorney, is the relative with the right to mount such a challenge; or Viktoria herself, if Yelena has died.
It has been political right from the start.
https://www.dw.com/en/the-curious-case-of-yulia-skripals-recorded-phone-call/a-43287554
One year equals March 2018 to February 2019 = 12 months.
Indeed it does, and Milda has made us aware that the English version of the article seems to be at fault, in omitting the words ‘half a’ from the phrase ‘half a year’.
Given that March 2018-February 2019, my original point was that there are allegedly two phone calls, from Yulia to Viktoria during that year, and Viktoria recorded both these calls, and claimed both to be genuinely from her first cousin Yulia Skripal.
Given Milda’s translation from the original published Russian, the hanging chad is whether what Viktoria said has been edited in the Russian version and translated correctly in the English version (because the latter version may be from an earlier document or audio).
This is the Russian original:
https://iz.ru/839114/2019-01-28/rodstvenniki-iulii-skripal-potrebuiut-priznat-ee-bez-vesti-propavshei
Viktoria said “in February it will have been HALF a year….”
Actually, half a year were on 24 January, if I count correctly. But Viktoria’s mistake is forgiveable.
Thank you, Milda, for clarifying that it’s the English version that is incorrect.
Apologies to Viktoria, if indeed her words suffered in translation.
Ahem, if Sergei has dual nationality, why can’t she declare him missing too?
I wrote to the Wiltshire Coroner asking for the copy of the agenda for the pre-inquest review hearing (PIR) on Dawn Sturgess, but it was refused.
I then made a Freedom Of Information request to Wiltshire Council for the same document. This is an excerpt from the reply:
“The Coroner Office is not a part of Wiltshire Council nor is it formally subject to the Freedom of Information Act, therefore Wiltshire Council do not hold the information you have requested”.
Is that in reference to Helmer’s article stating the inquest has been postponed again till April? I can find no information on the web substantiating Helmer’s article.
http://johnhelmer.net/wiltshire-coroner-cannot-rule-novichok-as-cause-of-death-theresa-mays-skripal-story-fails-bottle-test/
See this below:
David S says:
January 18, 2019 at 4:22 pm
The coroner’s office has confirmed to me by phone that the inquest on Dawn has been postponed. There will now be a “pre-inquest review” on 15th April
thanks mate.
Call to action.
With George Galloway now being censured for a “lack of balance” it seems that any non mainstream media is now being censured.
This is the thin end of the wedge.
Free speech is under attack.
David and myself both complained to the BBC about the same lack of balance in their Panorama programme. I have now complained to Ofcom about this, and the non handling of my complaint.
I encourage all Blogmirers to complain to Ofcom.
If you don’t like Galloway, then switch off your radio.
The Mother of All Talk Shows is his platform. We cannot have him silenced.
The episode in question he quite correctly questioned what HMG were telling us. in March.
That is his democratic right, and it is our right to listen if we so choose.
If TalkRadio, his employer get fined, then they will be reluctant to continue to employ him.
This is our free speech being eroded.
To Duncan
I have a 48 page complaint to send to Ofcom regarding its failure to comply with Section 4 Impartiality which covers the following:
1. Promoting pro right-wing politics and anti left-wing politics.
2. Absence of cover of the Yemeni conflict.
3. The Balfour Declaration – Britain’s Promise to the Holy Land
4. Jihadis You Pay For
5. One sided cover of the Syrian conflict.
6. One sided cover of the Salisbury poisoning.
7. BBC racism and promoting hatred of Russia.
8. One sided cover of the Crimea.
9. BBC McCarthy witch hunt against Jeremy Corbyn.
Should have read the BBC failure to comply with impartiality. They fail on 8 of the 9 requirements.
Rob,
An ADENDUM to my last, (Which seems to have left some confusion)
OI lef’ oot th’ dooks! Wi’oot th’ dooks the Skripals’ 4 March afternoon time-line is incomplete.
Here is complete, beginning with the time-line as time-stamps defined:
1340 carpark
1345 feeding ducks
1420 entering Zizzi’s
1535 exit Zizzi’s
1547 Probable Nemeses video’d moviing toward the Market Walk bench
1555 Skripals noticed on Market Walk bench for having odd appearance
1556 Air Ambulance lifting off to go a wrong direction
1615 Ground ambulances called
We can add, for two separate witness citings both noting the time,
1645 Air Ambulance witnessed lifting from carpark.
Notes:
There are two time-windows, 1345 to 1420 and 1535 to 1555, the first thirty-five minutes, the second twenty minutes, when the Skripals might have gone to The Bishop’s Mill. To utilise the first window they would have had to finish feeding ducks and walk to the pub. It is reasonable to assume, from the Skripals rushing to arrive in Salisbury Towne Centre at 1340 with bread to feed ducks for an interim, that that time was early and that they went for an appointment, not to lunch at Zizzi’s. We may conjecture the appointment to have been to ‘be at the Market Walk bench after 1400 to receive something’, and that the ‘something’ was something they desired enough to rush to be there early. Thus, we may assume that they fed ducks until shortly before 1400, then went toward the bench. We may conjecture that they found the bench occupied, 4 March, 2018 being a warm and dry Spring-like day, until rain in late afternoon, and so continued on to the Mill for a drink while waiting for the occupiers to move off. Adding walking time, from 1400, we can put them in the Mill at 1405, and settled with drinks by 1410, shortly after which Sergei was witnessed to wobble toward the loo, which, for Sergei being diabetic, we may conjecture to have been to give himself an insulin shot. Returning at about 1415, realising that rebalancing his diabetic condition required him to as soon as possible eat something, we may conjecture he and Yulia leaving the Mill to go to Zizzi’s, arriving there at 1420, as time-stamp recorded. This reconstruction incorporates, and justifies, all witness testimony, except the Skripals having come from Zizzi’s, which the witnesses, not having travelled with them, would have had to assume and conjecture.
The twenty-minute time-window, from leaving Zizzi’s at 1535 to being in distress on the Market Walk bench at1555. is shorter, and must be shortened more, at each end, to allow them walking time from Zizzi’s to the bench, and collapsing time after reaching the bench.
Porton Down, to maintain its scientists’ scientific intgrity while compromising the credibility of its authority for political expediency as minimally as it saw itself able, affirmed the agent analysis identified used to incapacitate the Skripals, at that time identified by the Government, using words provided by Vil Mirzyanov in his 2009 book, “A234 “Novichok”, as ‘of a type similar to a substance known as A234 “Novichok”.’ For recognition of its effort, we may assign credibility to the Porton Down statement, at a fundamental level, as we may assign credibility to the OPCW statement that “the substance” they identified on the Skripals’ door-handle “was persistent”, where they did not specify exactly what the substance was. In the Porton Down statement case, where, unlike in the OPCW example, the substance identified is identified of a specific family (the OPCW ‘substance’ could be any organic compound exuded or used by humans). For this we may assume for the Porton Down substance characteristics common to the A230 chemical family, which include hygroscopy and short effective half-life and response induction time. For this, the substance that incapacitated th Skripals, in the 80% humidity of Salisbury on 4 March, would have to have had its binary components mixed within seconds before its administration, and would have induced reaction in about five minutes (this is clearly not the substance the OPCW’s “experts”, turned into weasels by some British Government magicking, looked for, and found persistent, on the Skripals’ door).
That the compound used to incapacitate the Skripals was binary, and the binaries were combined immediately before their administration, is evidenced by Yulia’s blood-samples showing unresolved fractions, fractals not yet combined to form the compound. That the combining had completed by the time the administration reached Sergei is evidenced by his blood-samples evidencing only compound residuum. Nick Bailey’s blood-samples evidencing presence of the same residuals as Sergei’s, together with evidences demonstrating that the administration to him occurred, at minimum, twenty minutes after Yulia and Sergei, evidences that the mixed compound was protected from the 80% humidity of the day.
For our time-window defining purposes, the above evidences evidence that Yulia and Sergei Skripal were administered the A230 family compound that incapacitated them at about, or shortly prior to,1550, at least five minutes before 1555 time they were witnessed to be visibly incapacitated. This evidence evidences the Skripals having been on the Market Walk bench prior to 1550, and most likely also prior to the 1547 time two persons, who other evidences, chief amongst which is a red portfolio bag, ‘of a type’ seen in later in photographs lying discarded under the bench, that in the video the camera-side party seems to be carrying, along with a cannister (which bag, had Yulia ever carried it, would have made her look like a lawyer, and be noticed to by everyone who saw her) suggest to have been the Skripals’ Nemeses were recorded in a time-stamped video-snippet moving toward the bench on which they would in probability have been then seated.
Thus, the window for the Skripals to have possibly been to the Mill pub after leaving Zizzi’s is shortened to between 1535 and 1545. Assigning five minutes for them to walk from Zizzi’s, to the pub, 1535 to 1540, and then from the pub to the bench, 1540 to 1545, we have no time left. They would have to have done the Mill as a relay-race baton-pass, or as a Tour-de-France water-‘stop’. If the last their drinks-glasses ought have been found discarded along their route toward the bench, instead of left in the pub. Unless, of course, they were snatched up for souveniers by eager fans.
That the compound used to incapacitate the Skripals was binary, and the binaries were combined immediately before their administration, is evidenced by Yulia’s blood-samples showing unresolved fractions, fractals not yet combined to form the compound
Evangelista, I am not sure what the above actually means.
You have stated quite a few things I would take issue with.
1) If the agent was binary, then the perpetrators took great risks in transporting and mixing the two solutions. To what purpose? (Have you looked at the Iranian organic synthesis method and the final stages? You could not do this type of lab work outside a Salisbury pub.)
2) Yulia’s blood. You have seen toxicology reports? Please share them.
Unresolved fractions is not a medical term. If “precursors” were actually in Yulia’s blood, one would think of these, more likely as breakdown products or metabolites. Show us your link to the report please.
If we start with hearing your basis for these two statements, then we might consider the rest.
Hi Duncan,
I am not exactly sure how you achieved the impression that an A230 binary nerve-agent was synthesized outside a Salisbury pub. I like the image, though, a couple of chestnut-sellers hovering over a gas cook-plate, sort of like the old safe-crackers (yeggs in their trade jargon) melting dynamite to extract the nitroglycerin.
No, the stuff is made in labs, in isolation chambers, with charcoal filters and negative pressures. It is then molecularly precipitated, or distilled, or separated, into stable, and safe to handle, store, carry, components. I do not think the Iranians bothered to separate the A230s they synthesized to binaries, because their interests were in “weapons-grade” battlefield-deployable agents, and in those only for defence and antidote development. The Iranians are not known for interests in aggression, except in the minds and paranoias of those who are still rankled by their having lost control of the nation’s resources, so their research did not carry to resolving transport and deployment difficulties. I believe, however, a Czech scientist did investigate precipitation to binary, for being spurred by the secretiveness and deflectiveness of US and UK representatives at international conferences, to investigate the potential for Mirzyanov’s A234 “Novichok” appearing in assassination scenarios.
Binaries of nerve-agents can be carried with reasonable safety, or placed in separate chambers in a rocket or shell, for safe handling by the shooters, and then, the chambering broken down by whatever means at launch, mix to deadly in transit.
In the Salisbury case this would be what the deliverers would have done. Evidence indicates most probably having the safer of the agent components in the red portfolio bag, then squirting in the other at the last moment, before dropping the bag. Yulia was obviously not the target, but she was very interested in whatever Sergei was told would be delivered, and clearly, evidenced by her OPCW attested fractal content. Bailey evidences that the A230 used was not lethal, or especially dangerous, which evidences that Sergei was kept in coma more for the UK authorities being in a panic and at a loss for what to do with him in the glare of public scrutiny. Some fractals of chemical combinations that are harmless in mixture can be harmful, or deadly, if not to handle, if ingested. I suspect Yulia’s reaction was in part to fractions that should not have entered her system in fractions.
For information on Yulia’s blood, go to the OPCW. They did the work-up. Fractals of an A230 are fractals of an A230 for being fractals of the A230. Some may interact in human organic reactions the same drawn as isolates as drawn out from, some will not. I presume that the OPCW chemists differentiated between and defined compound fractals as such separatly from precipitated fractions, such as would identify, or signature, the compound compound.
Does that help? I am not writing about medical events or medical phenomena, only about chemical interactions.
With the above explanation of binaries you may be able to now join me in amusement in creating a scenario of Petrov and Bosherov pair, being, or our scene, something on the order of Monte Python Upper-Class-Twit Russian Assassins, given two bottles of Nina Ricci fake-a-like that are the two parts of the deadly poison they are deployed to deploy, arriving in Salisbury, casing the house, identifying Sergei and figuring out that with only one target, in one place and the assassination being a one-time-shot, what do they need two bottles of the stuff for?. Whereupon they throw one half in the bin and attempt to assassinate with the other one… And then, having, they believe, fulfilled their mission, off they go to sight-see Stonehenge, in the dark, of course, since they have a torch that Petrov wants Bosherov to shine across the circle so he can make a selfie of himself tight-rope-walking accross on the beam…
It makes as much sense as any other theory that’s been come up with about the courier-tourist lads who picked the wrong to days to visit Salisbury on.
Evangelista,
Your timeline is partly based on the official timeline, which is false. See this post by Rob:
https://www.theblogmire.com/the-10-main-holes-in-the-official-narrative-on-the-salisbury-poisonings-6-the-meal-and-the-drink/
According to Rob’s research, based on witnesses’ testimonies, the timeline was as follows:
13:40hrs: Sergei and Yulia arrive in Sainsbury’s upper level car park at the Maltings.
13:45hrs: Sergei is seen on CCTV feeding ducks near the Avon Playground, and handing bread to three boys, none of whom seem to have been affected by a nerve agent.
13:50-14:00hrs: The Skripals enter Zizzi Restaurant.
14:35-14:45hrs: They leave Zizzis and walk to The Bishops Mill Pub. the timeline was
Milda,
Rob put the Skripals in Zizzi’s at 1350 for crediting the eye witnesses’ testimonies that the Skripals went to Zizzi’s before they (the eye-witnesses) saw the Skripals in the Mill. None of the eye witnesses, however, testified to having b een with the Skripals to see where they were before they entered the Mill, or where they were.
Thus, I discounted the obviously non-eye-witness portions of the eye witness’s testimonies. As the Met had exact time-stamp times from Zizzi’s cameras, I accepted their assignments of those times.
I also discount the statements that the Mill had “16 cameras”, because the MET, who are sticklers for time-stamping, provided no time-stamp data for the Mill.
Evangelista,
Of course, the Met has all the CCTV videos and all the timestamps. But the information they provide to the public is not about how things really were on 4 March, but how they want the public to see that. To put it simply, they lie. For instance, officially, the Skripals walked to the bench from Zizzi through the Market Walk. But it is clear that the Skripals did not walk there near 4pm, because on the Monday 5 March, when the police reviewed the recordings of private-owned CCTVs in the area, they took with them only one image of a man-woman couple, who in fact were not the Skripals (they just matched the formal description of the Skripals, being an older man and a younger woman). If the Skripals had indeed walked through the Market Walk near 4 pm, the police would have certainly taken their image. (Credit to Liane for making this observation.)
” … the MET, who are sticklers for time-stamping,”
Of course they are, just look at what they did to their issued cctv stills, of the suspects coming through exit channels at Gatwick.
A 10-second time-stamped interval, ideally accurate or but even otherwise, between one shot and the other would have avoided a huge amount of controversy. They had literally months to get this right, and to double check it, but this they didn’t do.
Fellow Blogmires,
John Helmer wrote a new article :
http://johnhelmer.net/novichok-full-o-nuts-in-the-case-of-sergei-skripal-police-commissioner-angus-macpherson-lifts-the-lid/
John didn´t know about SJ´s bad habit of up-dating articles and not to mention that.
Therefore, he fell into the trap with the police van, which was allegedly parked in front of Sergei’s front door on 4 March.
In fact, the photo was taken on 5 March. And the other car belong to the neighbor.
Apart from this mistake, which is not John’s fault, the article is very worth reading.
My name is mentioned in the article.
So I want to share with you the document that John Helmer mentions.
Peter Beswick was kind enough to upload it for me :
https://www.scribd.com/document/398372132/Skripal
Along with Liane’s research, the “New” facts that continue to drip out and the “Old” facts that we now know to be lies, I put together this aide-memoire of witnesses reported to have been at the bench.
It is not in appearance order but by carefully analysing the evidence available it it possible to put a picture together (without the assistance of CCTV) of what actually happened at the bench.
It is something the police have repeatedly refused to inform us about. Many of those witnesses are able to give physical descriptions of who was on the bench? This would clear up the greatest controversy in the sorry mystery.
However if it is the Skripals on the bench mystery still abounds:
Why have we seen no images of the Skripals that day or a description from the police of what they were wearing or Yulia’s hair colour. Why no CCTV footage, why no clear timeline at the bench, why the deliberate confusion, lies, distractions and amendments to the narrative????
If it is not the Skripals on the bench the questions above are redundant
Witness aide-memoire below, these people need to come forward and give their evidence publicly as to the descriptions of the Bench Couple. A year is too long to have to wait for that basic and simple evidence and there is absolutely no honest reason to keep that information hidden any longer.
The excuses of Operational Reasons / National Security / Ongoing Criminal Investigation get more and more ludicrous each time they are trotted out.
Witnesses at the bench (NB Bailey does not appear in the list)
People Caught on CCTV (Snap Fitness & Jenny’s) in Market Walk ?
All those that passed the bench whilst the pair were there.
Police & Ambulance incl Air Ambulance (AA fast response car plus helicopter paramedics)
Shop keepers and staff
People who have seen the Council CCTV footage
………
Freya Church (“100%”, “definitely” the same couple as in Snap Fitness CCTV video)
Olly Field (“blonde bird”)
Jamie Paine + girlfriend
Nurse Col McCourt + husband, daughter and son
“Security Guard”?
“Two Police Officers” (before call made to emergency services)?
Doctor?
Gary Newman (owner of G&T Cards)
Richard Wheeler (Manager b&r textiles) (CCTV camera on b&r just a few feet from the bench)
Shop keeper putting rubbish out (could be Richard Wheeler)
Dan Holmes
Georgia Pridham
The umbrella holder(s)
Destiny Reynolds
Emma Pearson (as female was being placed on the ground)
Ian Parsons paramedic
Sgt Holloway + PC Collins
Meg Edgar
Graham Mulcock
From John Helmer’s article:
“Local sources say it is well-known in the area that drug addicts needing cash to feed their habits steal from Boots products they know to be popular for resale in local pubs. Rowley, according to Macpherson’s tweet, appears to have been suspected of obtaining something from Boots in addition to his methadone prescription, and to have left a CCTV trace of his doing it.”
Perhaps the notorious perfume bottle was stolen from Boots and had nothing to do with the poisoning. It was just a convenient prop to hang the poisoning story on.
Uhm..And we all know what type of cellophane wraps boxes.
Wouldn’t you smell a dud if it was like “Thick Bacon Wrap”
From the Helmer article:
“McCourt says she did not call the police immediately. Several minutes elapsed because she telephoned her mother first.”
From the second link:
“Abigail quickly alerted her mum, a qualified nurse, who was nearby”
???
Did I really read John Helmer’s blog correctly?
Daughter Abigail tended to the two victims on her own, and then after a few minutes called her Mum?
Because the Chief Army Nurse was not beside her when Abigail encountered the prone victims at the bench, so Abigail did her thing, then contacted Mum?
How could this have taken 10 months to come to light? The media have DSB a hero by completing a clumsy breaking and entering.
Abigail preventing the dastardly Superagents, world’s most deadly nerve agent, thwarted by an English schoolgirl.
Now that is a story.
“world’s most deadly nerve agent, thwarted by an English schoolgirl”.
It sounds like an Enid Blyton story.
John Helmer is misinterpreting what Abigail said. The phone call to her mother was the next day, after Abigail learnt about the incident on Snapchat during a break at school. She said clearly in the Spire FM interview that she was with her family on the way home on Sunday, when she noticed the man in distress and they went over to see. Her mother also said “she assisted me to put Yulia Skripal in the recovery position”. So Abigail did not treat the Skripals on her own.
From what I’ve read, and now re-read, it seems like Alison McCourt is the person described as the unnamed off-duty army doctor; and Abigail was probably the person described as a nurse (clearly competent but with less experience and authority).
Fr’instance, this witness is probably Alison McCourt:
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2334644/doctor-tells-of-horror-to-keep-poisoned-russian-spy-sergei-skripals-daughter-yulia-alive-as-nerve-agent-took-hold/
Two non-emergency services medics at the bench, apparently doctor and nurse, actually mother (very senior nurse) and daughter (trained first aider).
What’s your question? I don’t get what you are implying. She didn’t phone police first, she phoned her mum first. I honestly don’t understand what you are questioning.
How likely is Abigail to have made a ‘phone call to someone ‘nearby’?
That said, according to Brendan (above) John Helmer attributes to Abigail on the Sunday a ‘phone call she made the following day. If that’s so then there’s no paradox after all – just a requirement that Helmer get his facts straight next time.
Theresa’s comments and my thoughts below.
TM Military-grade Novichok nerve agent positively identified
by experts at the UK’s
Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, an OPCW-accredited and designated laboratory
ME Meaning that PD did in fact have reference material on hand, in order for this confirmation to take place.
TM Novichok is a group of agents developed only by Russia and not declared under the CWC
ME Ambiguous statement, this class of compounds “not known” because they have now been banned in January 2019. Not sure here, who was to declare what.
TM A violation of the fundamental prohibition on the use of chemical weapons (Art. 1 CWC)
ME Again, ambiguity and obfuscation. Was/is the Novichok family banned prior to March 2018.
If the assumption was that they did not exist, that that was wrong as PD had reference material.
If the assumption was that they did exist, then why were they not on the OPCW schedule of banned CWs?
TM First offensive use of a nerve agent in Europe since the Second World War
ME Possibly, although the PD experiments, I find offensive as they gassed many animals to take the Pentagon dollars.
TM We are without doubt that Russia is responsible. No country bar Russia has combined capability, intent and motive.
There is no plausible alternative explanation
ME
Capability: Iranians made some two years earlier.
Intent: Not too deadly, other than poor Dawn. Far more efficient ways of killing people, without risking CCTV capture and witnesses. What was the intent?
Motive: Sergei, seemingly had many enemies. I can think of many several reasons for his removal, but none with an inefficient nerve agent.
TM As of Sunday 18 March, we count over thirty parallel lines of Russian disinformation
ME As we know, dissention or inquisitiveness is treason. So, all questions of HMG’s narrative must be Russian.
TM “Based on this capability, combined with their record of conducting state sponsored assassinations
–
Including against former intelligence officers whom they regard as legitimate targets -the UK Government concluded it was highly likely that Russia was responsible for this reckless and despicable act”
Prime Minister Theresa May, 14 March
ME I don’t think so.
Peter, that would be the “How” part of the coroner’s role.
Who Dawn was, when and where she died are probably not at issue in this hearing.
How she died could be determined without associating any guilt.
I imagine it would go along a “heart failure, due to body organ collapse due to a neurological agent.” path.
Pathologist would state this.
Now the toxicologist’s report would be interesting, but it might also be suitably vague. (Ongoing criminal investigation…)
Fundamentally, it is a death by poisoning case.
The Jury would need to satisfy themselves on the poison concerned.
“Nerve Agent” in this case is unreasonably vague but the how it came to be in Charlie’s home, where it was found and how did it get there are all very important aspects of the “How” if an Open Verdict is to be avoided.
As is the type of Nerve Agent because we have been told by HMG that it was a Novichok.
Novichok s are a known group of chemicals to the OPCW, they are banned.
We have just learned that the chemical that killed Dawn does not belong in the existing banned group of Novichoks and a new banned group created by the OPCW for its classification.
ie The chemical that killed Dawn is NOT a Novichok.
The Jury will want to know why HMG misled the public because any evidence an Agency of HMG gives to Inquest cannot be relied on until their credibility is re-established.
The Inquest’s purpose is to establish the Truth of what happened and in this case it means stripping away the lies and deliberately false information that has he promulgated by HMG and her Agencies.
The witnesses will be under oath and at risk of purjery if they continue the false narrative.
I think the best we can expect is that Dawn was killed by a Chemical that has recently been added to the OPCW banned list. It is not as originally announced by HMG a Novichok.
Details of how it came into the possession of Charlie and where it came from are uncertain.
Boris Johnson said Porton Down had samples of it
“You argue that the source of this nerve agent, Novichok, is Russia. How did you manage to find it out so quickly? Does Britain possess samples of it?
Let me be clear with you … When I look at the evidence, I mean the people from Porton Down, the laboratory …
So they have the samples …
They do. And they were absolutely categorical and I asked the guy myself, I said, “Are you sure?” And he said there’s no doubt. We have very little alternative but to take the action that we have taken.”
https://www.dw.com/en/boris-johnson-russias-position-in-skripal-case-is-increasingly-bizarre/a-43043873
Boris Johnson confirmed to Alexander Yakovenko (Russian Ambasador to Britain) that what Porton Down had identified was “ A-234 ”
Mrs May announced in Parliament on 14th March that it was a Novichok, she wrote to the OPCW the same day confirming the same.
…
The OPCW knew about A-234, it was a banned chemical
The OPCW didn’t previously know about the existence of the chemical that was used in Salisbury and Amesbury and it was not added to the banned list until Jan 2019
…
When are they going to get their story straight?
Here is HMG’s “evidence” that Russia was Responsible
And before anyone asks – no its not a joke.
https://www.scribd.com/document/398388251/UK-Briefing
The Russian Response
https://www.scribd.com/document/376281546/Salisbury-a-classified-case
Peter,
From that Russian document.
“On 4 April
at the request of Russia an Emergency session of the OPCW Executive Council was conducted. A draft decision sponsored by Russia, China and Iran suggested a joint investigation of the incident. The decision was supported by 6 votes, with 15 members voting against and 17 abstentions. Almost all the 15 members voting against the decision
were US and UK’s military allies.”
What surprised me was 17 abstentions. What possible reason would there be for such a large number? How could a member not have an opinion on this simple point?
.
Fear of US reprisals
Apart from the OPCW saying its what Porton Down says it is, have they ever said it was a Novichok and that it originated in Russia?
One of these two chemicals is what was found in Salisbury and Amesbury (page 3)
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B(e).pdf
Results of Post Mortem Tissue Tests
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2018/09/s-1671-2018%28e%29.pdf
Amesbury Incident
“displays the toxic properties of a nerve agent”
NOT “possible to draw conclusions as to whether the samples are from the same synthesis batch” (as used in Salisbury)
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2018/09/s-1671-2018%28e%29.pdf
Salisbury Incident
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/S_series/2018/en/s-1612-2018_e___1_.pdf
Were there two Hit Teams is Salisbury that day? Team A and Back up Team B? Job Completed Team B dump their sealed poison and leg it.
But if I were a member of the Jury when the Coroner sits I would want to know how HMG knows it came from Russia.
I would also like to know how Porton Down knew extremely quickly not that it was just a Nerve Agent but a specific one from a group called Novichoks.
That is an important question because if Porton Down knew what it was that indicates they were previously aware of its existance and its specific Novichok nomenclature.
The OPCW were not aware of it apparently, it was “New” to them, not on their Banned List.
So if Porton Down had prior knowledge of this poison (and there is no evidence that the Russians had ever heard of that specific nerve agent) then Porton Down may hold the answer to how that poison came to be used in Salisbury and Amesbury and where those poisons came from.
What I would have expected Porton Down to say (now that the facts are dripping out) is;
“We haven’t a clue what this is, we have never seen it before, our scientists are working hard to discover the precise formula but it is nothing that has been registered with the OPCW and not something we have come across before.
We have no toxicity data, mammal experimental data, no antidote advice, no symptom or pathology data.
We no it acts on the Central Nervous System, Immune System and Enzyme chemistry as a Nerve Agent might be expected to but we have zero experience of this chemical”
But that’s not what they said. What they did say they said very quickly, too quickly.
I suppose old habits die hard for the scientists at Porton Down and when the an opportunity to test a New Chemical on Human Beings arose, how could they refuse?
Why the gender of the “perfume bottle”?
To suggest that Yulia brought it via plane?
Because it was supposed to be used by a female member of a hit team.
But you should think she would have wrapped the cellophane off in preparation.
And why the punishment of Sergej Skripal not to allow him to phone his mother.
The Bins would have been emptied-changed long before Charlie
found stuff. If Charlie did find it in Bin it was placed for him long
after 04-03-18.
The first link, with the amended spelling to ‘fluoride’ (ie the (e) version of the file) no longer works.
The links to the two versions are here:
http://www.theblogmire.com/summing-up-the-official-claims-in-the-salisbury-poisonings-weighed-in-the-balances-and-found-wanting/#comment-23172
AFAIK the only difference was the misspelling, and blunderbuss mentioned it before:
http://www.theblogmire.com/summing-up-the-official-claims-in-the-salisbury-poisonings-weighed-in-the-balances-and-found-wanting/#comment-23170.
eleanor
Here is a corrected link:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B%28e%29.pdf
Corrected link:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B%28e%29.pdf
The US Defense Threat Reduction Agency and Georgia
https://www.rt.com/news/438543-georgia-us-laboratory-bio-weapons/
“RT could not independently verify the authenticity of the documents presented by Giorgadze.
The former minister and veteran intelligence officer, who does not rule out that the documents might be a very elaborate fake, now wants a group of experts to carry out an independent investigation. He has said he will ask the US President, Donald Trump, and the US Congress to launch an investigation into the lab’s activities”
More from Georgia
https://eurasianet.org/assassinations-by-poison-russia-points-the-finger-at-georgia
“Noted for his trademark silver hair and moustache, Patarkatshvili ran afoul of the then newly chosen Russian President Vladimir Putin almost two decades ago and moved to Georgia, where he then crossed swords with Saakashvili.
The Georgian Prosecutor’s Office on October 17 released tapes allegedly describing a 2007 plot to assassinate Patarkatsishvili. In the tapes, a former Georgian security official tries to convince the oligarch’s bodyguard to facilitate the assassination. The official mentions a deadly substance that “can be smeared on a door handle.”
Did anyone notice the reaction times to make some announcements vs others?
e.g.
The announcement to accuse Russia and Name Novichok as the offending poison
Firstly to accuse a Nuclear State of attacking another on their soil, in a public place with the deadliest Military Grade Nerve Agent known to man and chucking out their diplomats, in addition to getting allies to mirror the punishment is very serious stuff and requires unequivocal evidence.
In the event no credible evidence was produced that demonstrated it was the Russians wot did it but the Judgement and Punishment was delivered swiftly. Too swiftly.
And the Novichok concerned, how did Porton Down know which specific Novichok it was and Mrs May know it came from Russia? For Porton Down to know the Specific Novichok they must have had the reference data. But we are now told by the OPCW there was none.
The Novichok concerned was not on the OPCW banned list because it was “New” to them. So how were Porton Down able to identify it so quickly. What did they compare it with, where did their reference Samples come from, the Mass Spec Signatures, the Formula??? If the OPCW hadn’t seen it before why hadn’t Porton Down informed them of its existence, registered it and requested that it be banned? The law requires that they do that to comply with their International Obligations.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-novichok/chemical-weapons-agency-agrees-to-ban-novichok-nerve-agents-idUKKCN1P818O
And then compare those unfeasibly rapid responses to unexplained tardy ones:
The source of the poison was the door handle (despite having in their possession a Russian Manual on how to coat door handle with Nerve Agents)
Bailey being poisoned and the infinitely variable narratives of his actions that day. Why did it take 3 days for the public to learn of Baileys poisoning?
Why did it take 10 months to learn the identity of the first medical responder? We still don’t know what Bailey did that day or in the days following.
Why do we still not know what the Skripals were wearing that day. Why can’t we have evidence that they are still alive? Why can’t we see photographic images of them that day?
Why did they wait 2 weeks before they informed the parents of the children who were handed bread by the Skripals 15 minutes after touching the door handle? Especially when you consider the Skripals were so badly contaminated when they later dined in Zizzis, the table they were sat at had to be destroyed in a furnace.
But there were also elements that were never revealed:
Why reports of Yulia (and sometimes Sergei) being taken to hospital in the Air Ambulance not corrected or the letter to the Times by the Lead Consultant at Salisbury District Hospital A&E saying no one was poisoned by Nerve Agent. (the Spire FM report re AA not taking the Skripals does not abrogate the responsibility of the other media outlets correcting their stories’ or explaining why they got it so wrong)
We were never told why the Air Ambulance response was so strange.
And the evidence of Freya Church or Ollie Field has never been refuted by the police, that evidence says the female at the bench was not Yulia.
We are approaching the 1 year anniversary of the Salisbury poisonings and much of the narrative is still being re-written, much is still being hidden, the authorities ducking behind the lame excuses of Operational Reasons / National Security / Ongoing Criminal Investigation so as to withhold the Truth.
8 months since Dawn and Charlie were poisoned and still no charges in relation to Dawn’s death, no Inquest, Insufficient Evidence.
We are witnessing the dying spasms of the most grotesque Hoax that the British government has ever performed.
RIP Dawn our thoughts and prayers are with you and the hope that Justice will be done.
Peter, my FOI tracker saw your DSB request.
I also saw the Section 30 criminal investigation caveat which no doubt will be the February response.
Anyway, well done. The Blog needs more doers than talkers.
If you wish let Rob pass to me your email address.
I think I will also try to put a point of view to the coroner.
I am very happy for you to have my email address Duncan
“The Blog needs more doers than talkers.”
No chance of active help from me, Duncan, I’ve already been told (but not by you), to:
‘Don’t lecture me about stuff you know nothing about.’
Denise, nice work on the AHT article and to Peter; I would never poo poo anything you have to say ! :)))
My pleasure Keith, that’s what we do here at ‘Truth Justice And Not The American way Inc.’ lol
I am still blocked from commenting on this website, the original comment contained a vernacular form of the past tense of defecated (anagram of hats), I changed that to pooed, but that didn’t work so just now retried again and re-edited enough so it should not be considered a duplicate comment.
Still blocked.
Rob says he is not responsible
Clearly I can still comment but only on certain stuff
This is to test my unblocker
https://www.scribd.com/document/398318406/Farrago
Peter, Its possible that a word/s in your post are considered by the WordPress algorithm to be offensive and its those that maybe causing your post to be blocked.
Peter, you could try sending it in several parts and that way you will see which part is causing the problem.
It’s not about a large industrial town in North Lincolnshire, is it?
Yes Blunderbuss, Scunsbury. lol
By the way, are we sure Skripal betrayed Soviet/Russian agents? Or was he rather used for information on Russian (dis-)armament? Was that why he settled in Salisbury? And was that the reason his Russian sentence was rather light?
Skripal’s post in Madrid was “Scientific and Technical Secretary.”
When you look around for arms control you find some interesting traces of the Skripal incident.
Like this
https://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/russiaprofile
“The State Department stated in 2016 that it “cannot certify that Russia has met its obligations under the Convention: for declaration of its CWPFs [chemical weapons production facilities]; its CW development facilities; or its CW stockpiles.”
The UK accused Russia of assassinating a former Russian spy, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter Yulia, in the UK using the chemical agent Novichok on March 4, 2018.”
Skripal was in Malta during the 1980’s through to the early 1990’s.
He was there during the 1991 Malta Summit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malta_Summit
And yes, he did meet a lot of scientists.
https://www.maltatoday.com.mt/news/national/85102/sergei_skripal_russia_malta_embassy_attache_mi6_gru
The funny thing is that Mark Urban in his book tells exactly what is written in the Malta Times article quoted below
http://lander.odessa.ua/doc/The%20Skripal%20Files%20by%20Mark%20Urban.pdf
So my guess is Skripal did not tell him anything about it. Presumably his book project in 2017 was not on Skripal but he interviewed Skripal about other things.
It is curious though that he ends Skripals appointment end of the 1980’s. The Malta Times says this
“He served in Malta into the early 1990s. ”
The Malta Summit must have been a big event for Skripal.
It is completely unclear what Skripal is supposed to have delivered to the UK.
There is no report of any Russian spy arrested because of him.
Sorry 1989 Malta Summit.
Guys, I am glad that the blog is still active.
One thing I found interesting in the link above – “Scripal frequently drank in the Railway social club and gambled”….. What is this “Railway Social Club”?
Maybe Scripal was doing his business meetings there? We know that B&P stayed quite a time, at least 40 missing minutes, somewhere nearby railway station, both on 3-th and 4-th March. Maybe they met Scripal or someone close to Scripal at the club?
Blunderbuss said:
Support Wiltshire Air Ambulance as Costs Rise by 15%:
https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/support-wiltshire-air-ambulance-as-costs-rise-by-15/
Is this to pay for spook flights? I think the spooks should pay for them.
Denise said:
I think MI56 were most likely paying for the use of the Air Ambulance but now their
cover is blown, they are no longer using them. The 15% increase in costs probably
isn’t real, its just that they lost the MI56 income.
It may also be the reason Heli Charter went into liquidation. They probably lost the
MI56 income across their entire operation as a result of the Skripal exposure of
MI56’s helicopter use by them.
Perfect-Well Done!
Good thinking, Denise.
Just been censored by this site for telling the Truth in a responsible and grown up way.
You should be ashamed Rob
I wonder what that was about.
What are you talking about, Peter? I’ve been spending time with family today and hardly had a chance to look at comments all day, much less censor them. Not exactly sure what I’m supposed to be ashamed of.
What am I talking about, I wrote a factual account of the deceit promulgated by HMG and her Agencies.
That needs to be repeated as often as needed until the majority of the public are aware that they have been lied to.
I can back up every allegation I make with facts, you yourself Rob have produced many of those facts here.
I was blocked from posting that comment on your website, that is why I said you should be ashamed. If the block was not of your doing but some 3rd party interfering then I apologise unreservedly.
I will attempt again to place the post here, in a few moments, if it doesn’t appear and you are not responsible then I will assume your website actually isn’t a safe place.
It is possible that the blog software has a comment filter based on expressions.
Try to reword your stuff and it will probable go through.
I can’t be arsed.
Anidea-Cascadian-Anonymous! Thanks for Info on how
mobile communications work. Sorry for Ignorance in this
field-subject-tech…
I Old School Radio Building-Repair. Valves-Solder-Equipment
found Markets-Boot Sails-Junk….Love SW [Shortwave]
Sorry for causing dispute amongst us Guys-Gals…Best Wishes All!
Please correct if wrong! Robin Cook MP..Questioned In Parliament
Actions In Gulf over WOMD?
I Served GW-1…Memory failing. Was Mr Cook found on Hillside
alleged heart attack?
A fit-healthy Chap who loved walking-hills. No health issues,Found
Dead after questioning TPTB.
You should read Cook’s resignation speech, he died 4 weeks after making it.
In it he revealed that Al Qaeda was invented, financed and mismanaged by the CIA.
There is a firm rule of the US, if you blab their secrets you will put your life in danger.
Kelly died 6 weeks after reporting to a NYT journalist that the president was lying about finding evidence of WMD manufacture in Iraq
Many many more have died they would include Assange and Snowden if they could get their hands on them.
That’s how democracy works in the US.
Thank You Peter! Its shocking what happens if honesty goes against
HMG. Hope Coroner In Dawns Inquest stands for truth?
He must be vigilant-on guard. Robin Cook-Doctor David Kelley have
both fallen due questioning HMG Operational Requirements………….
It was all a lie GW-1..
I think the government’s message to the spooks has always been: “Kill any people who get in your way but don’t get found out. We don’t know about it and we don’t want to know”.
What has changed is that members of the public are finding out about spooky killings, through data leaks, and are demanding action. This means that the government now knows the things it doesn’t want to know.
They have come up with a brilliant solution. Blame all killings by British spooks on the Russians. Problem solved.
To Cascadian
Couldn’t agree more. Just imagine turning up at court with the “evidence” that your double agent is now a security risk and having to answer all those probing questions. Then there’s the risk the warrant may be denied. All too risky, why not just go straight to the Home Secretary.
Here’s somethings you might find funny (if you haven’t seen them):
https://principia-scientific.org/breaking-us-military-suddenly-blocks-uk-from-all-spy-satellite-access/
https://theintercept.com/2014/12/13/belgacom-hack-gchq-inside-story/
https://securelist.com/regin-nation-state-ownage-of-gsm-networks/67741/
Came across this today.
Trying to verify this happened is proving to be hard for a Saturday.
Anyone able to confirm this actually happened as this piece dictates?
Is the coroner still not happy to sign off on the cause-of-death?
http://www.pacificfreepress.com/2019/01/24/opinion/skripal-case-coroner-unconvinced-yet.html
Coroner needs to be careful! He could be found dead in
a field.
Operational Requirement!
Let me say this again for newcomers.
Mark Urban stated at his talk in Salisbury that Chepiga and Fedotov had come to the UK on the same dates in 2016 and 2017 as 2018.
In 2018 Fedotov came again but not accompanying Chepiga. This time Chepiga was with Dr Mishkin.
To me this says only one thing – it was a regular meeting with Sergei. You don’t take 3 years to kill someone.
Also a doctor’s involvement might indicate Sergei was unwell, with something he couldn’t go to his GP about.
Urban said this was “the latest news” and nodded at someone in the audience, who obviously concurred, as Urban then went on to state the above.
Patrick M.
Yes.
You can also add “Borishov” and “Petrov” being in Prague at the same time as Skripal according to Czech journalists.
And the Czech organized crime police looking into this.
Only functional reason for a doctor would be that the stuff they handled was effectively dangerous. But in that case the doctor would need equipment. Not “highly likely” they tried to get this through customs.
I would take Bellingcat’s identification with a lot of salt. “Highly likely” they were fed the identities of some dead people.
There is a campaign claiming that ex-Soviet chemical, nuclear materials are still not safe.
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/10/moldova-nuclear-weapons-isis/409456/
“Because the AP’s investigation focused on sting operations by the FBI and Moldovan authorities, in which undercover informants broke up transactions they themselves may have played a role in initiating, the report left open questions about the real likelihood of terrorists obtaining large quantities of nuclear materials. “[I]n most of the operations arrests were made after samples of nuclear material had been obtained rather than the larger quantities,” the AP wrote. “That means that if smugglers did have access to the bulk of material they offered, it remains in criminal hands.”
The claim that there was a black market for nuclear materials was used by Germany’s BND in 1995 to pressure Russia to let the US clean up.
But if you accept the identification of Dr. Mishkin as real there is this a New York Times report:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/08/world/europe/skripal-russia-alexander-mishkin.html
“Dr. Mishkin received his alias, Alexander Petrov, upon moving to Moscow in 2010, Bellingcat reported. Before traveling to Salisbury, it said, he used the identity to travel extensively in the former Soviet Union, including several trips to Ukraine as well as to the breakaway Moldovan republic of Transnistria.”
And yes, NATO helped Moldova to clean up its “obsolete pesticides”
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_156468.htm
and – of course – there is a low level conflict between Russia and NATO in Moldova.
https://www.globalgreens.org/news/moldovan-greens-declaration-russian-military-activities-moldova
“Those activities are creating also premises for insecurity around the military ammunition depot in Cobasna, where are stoked more than 14,000 tons of former Soviet, current Russian old ammunition and chemical weapons. The ammunition and weapons have a significant chance of explosion, or contamination of soil and water, affecting the surroundings.”
There are also claims and counterclaims about chemical weapons going to be used in Ukraine.
http://tass.com/world/1034342
https://www.unian.info/war/10394961-russia-plotting-chemical-attack-in-donbas-ukraine-intel.html
https://www.irozhlas.cz/zpravy-domov/double-agent-sergey-skripal-followed-prague-russians_1810101220_miz
Czech journalists said:
“Skripal came to Czech Republic in the mid-October, not long after the two men who, according to British investigators, allegedly attempted to murder him four years later.”
This is, Skripal came to Czech Republic not long AFTER P&B.
That is not what Czech Radio says
https://www.radio.cz/en/section/curraffrs/skripal-suspects-believed-to-have-followed-him-in-czechia-long-before-attempted-poisoning
“The suspected perpetrators of the Novichok attack on Russian double agent Sergei Skripal reportedly visited the Czech Republic in 2014, at the time when Skripal himself was in the country, allegedly helping the Czech counter-intelligence service uncover Russian spies. Radiožurnal, Czech Radio’s flagship news channel, broke the story on Wednesday, citing Czech intelligence sources
The two men, who are believed to work for the Russian intelligence service GRU, arrived in the Czech Republic in mid-October 2014, using the same cover names as they did in Britain -Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov – just days before Skripal’s scheduled visit to the country.
Czech Radio’s investigative reporter Janek Kroupa cites his source at military intelligence as saying that everything points to the fact that Skripal was being followed by Russian agents long before the attempted poisoning in Britain.. “
More from the link
“Alexander Petrov, who has been identified as Alexander Mishkin by British intelligence and the Investigative group Bellingcat, briefly booked into a hotel in Ostrava before moving to Prague on October 16, while the man believed to be colonel Anatoliy Chepiga –going under the fake name Ruslan Boshirov – visited Prague on October 11.”
According to Fontanka.ru, Petrov and Fedotov, another GRU man, visited the Czech Republic in January-February 2014. Apparently, they had some dealings in that country. No connection with Skripal.
These guys are reported to have been all over Europe so “highly likely” they had lots of connections.
But their itinery – reportedly – crossed Skripal’s several times, last time was made public by the British Government accusing them of assassination but keeping quiet about the visa they had.
Skripal is reported to have been in the Czech Republic before in 2012.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/14/sergei-skripal-briefed-european-intelligence-services-reports-say
They might as well have been meeting Pablo Miller in Salisbury as Skripal was part of his network, same as Litvinenko and Berezovsky were.
I never heard that P&B’s itinerary crossed Skripal’s several times. The only claim I know is that of October 2014 in Prague. But the claim is not accurate: Skripal came later.
But Urban’s a halfwit
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201810051068634152-urban-skripal-harding-miller/
Urban and Pablo Miller are mates. They joined the 4th Royal Tank Regiment (based Tidworth, Salisbury) and received their Commissions on the same day.
They both left and joined different branches of the Intelligence Services.
Now consider this; Sergei who is living in Salisbury in relative anonymity but apparently fearful for his safety decides to blow his cover by publicly blabbing details of his Cold War activities.
To demonstrate his disregard for discretion and privacy further he hands over his family photo to Urban and gives him permission to publish whatever he wants.
The interviews take place at Sergei’s home when his son becomes ill and dies. Urban proceeds with the project regardless.
HMG thinks this is a good idea and gives Clearance for the book and gives Urban all the assistance he requires.
How likely do you think any of that is?
Did Urban say that Chepiga (Boshirov) and Fedotov visited the UK on the same dates in 2016 and 2017 as in 2018?
According to the Russian website Fontanka.ru, Fedotov visited the UK in March of 2016, 2017 and 2018. They did not say “the same dates”.
I don’t think that Petrov and Boshirov had meetings with Skripal in Salisbury or anywhere else. I think P&B were lured to Salisbury by the plotters of the Skripals poisoning. My hypothesis is here:
https://www.theblogmire.com/summing-up-the-official-claims-in-the-salisbury-poisonings-weighed-in-the-balances-and-found-wanting/#comment-22775
Support Wiltshire Air Ambulance as Costs Rise by 15%:
https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/support-wiltshire-air-ambulance-as-costs-rise-by-15/
Is this to pay for spook flights? I think the spooks should pay for them.
Hi Blunderbuss, I think MI56 were most likely paying for the use of the Air Ambulance but now their cover is blown, they are no longer using them. The 15% increase in costs probably isn’t real, its just that they lost the MI56 income.
It may also be the reason Heli Charter went into liquidation. They probably lost the MI56 income across their entire operation as a result of the Skripal exposure of MI56’s helicopter use by them.
I’d forgotten about this:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/25/drug-dealer-behind-fresh-novichok-scare-given-11-year-jail-term-alex-king
At the time of the Prezzo incident, so much was said by the media as to how Alex King’s Russian wife had been persecuted by Putin.
Can anyone confirm if the £48 million special budget to build a new Chemical Weapons Defence Centre and to initiate a vaccine program for British soldiers actually got transferred to Defense or was this a promise which will only be realized in the passing of the next Tory budget?
Thank you.
Home of Novichok victim declared safe (Charlie’s house)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/24/salisbury-poisoning-home-novichok-victim-declared-safe/
An interesting story: The Nurse’s Tale – “How We Poisoned the Skripals”
https://ahtribune.com/world/europe/uk/skirpal/2822-nurse-tale-alison-mccourt.html
Excellent.
Well written, with of course NO UK media interest.
Rob,
I found your review of the evidences of 4 March, 2018 a useful addition. I agree that the Met’s ordering of the CCTV sightings of the Skripal car indicate direction of travel, toward home, and that that is significant. I believe the Met began, and carried on, investigating competently and procedurally correctly prior to the government interfering “for national security”. Thus, I also believe the Met timeline order, with the Skripals visiting the Mill before going to Zizzi’s, ‘correct’. It is logically so, particularly for Sergei being diabetic and witnesses reporting seeing him shaky and unsteady (symptoms of an insulin imbalance) and heading for the loo (to administer himself an insulin shot) before making a quick exit to a restaurant for ‘healthy’ food, also needed to restore insulin balance. The witnesses would have reason to know, and ability to observe those movements, which they would not for the Skripals’ movements from the pub, unless they were in entourage, travelling with them. Sergei’s witnessed irritability in Zizzi’s, and wanting (needing) food immediately, would also be characteristic of insulin crisis. Stress is often a factor in insulin crisis, and credible witness evidences indicate Sergei did have factors to induce stress, in addition to any of his immediate situation that afternoon.
I suspect that your especial focus to the order of the Skripals’ movements the afternoon of 4 March is for your perceiving something important there, but not able to put your finger on it. I might be able to help. To begin, I assign importance to the Skripals’ being in The Maltings and being back and forth, but not to the order. I don’t think the Met saw importance in the order either, but were not happy they had no Mill time-stamp data. They appear to have put the Skripals’ Mill visit, with vague time reference, between the time-stamps they had, for the carpark and Zizzi’s. For argument I am going to put them at the Mill twice. I suspect the Mill had no security cameras at all, not even an old tape-loop one to discourage druggery or thuggery in the hallway to the loo (if there was one).
To review all events, in order, to begin, 4 March 2018 was a pleasant Spring day, relatively warm, dry and sunny (before rain in the evening). A nice day for a sit-down on an outdoor bench. The evidence indicates that the Skripals went early morning to visit their departed, during which activity it would not necessarily be unnatural that they might have turned their phones off to not be disturbed in their communing with the dead. Between 9:00 and 9:30 the evidences indicate they were on their way home and arrived there. They would be very unlikely to have had their phones off on the drive or at home. At about 13:30 they were off from home, on their way to The Maltings. Just an urge for lunch? Possibly, but if they stopped in the Mill first, less likely. More likely that Sergei received a phone call, shortly before 13:30, advising them to go to The Maltings and sit on the bench on Market Walk, where he would be seen and would be delivered something he would be interested to receive. And that Sergei told Yulia, who was also interested, whereupon they both jumped in the car and went straight to The Maltings, parked at the carpark and went — to find, it being a nice day, the bench occupied. The phone call would increase stress levels, and finding the bench not empty for them would increase them more. Going to the Mill for a drink while waiting for the bench to become free would be natural. Sergei having an insulin reaction, in the circumstances, would not be unnatural. Sergei appearing shaky and unsteady, going to the loo to dose himself with insulin, then departing hurriedly to Zizzi’s for a quick ‘healthy’ ‘lo-cal’ meal, would be natural. Returning, finding the bench occupied again (perhaps Steve Cooper, wife and dog still there, or someone else, they could stop again in the Mill, to wait their turn. Finally, the day beginning to cool, the bench becoming less popular, they have their turn. They take possession, taking position, and wait.
The plotters, who have been waiting and watching, signal their cohorts the plot is on, and move in. They pass behind Sergei, ignoring the ‘bird’, drop their ‘something’, and moving on along. The ‘bird’, Yulia, not an intended target, snatches up the something, opens and looks in… And things begin to go wrong… The binaries have not yet fully combined, she is going to have component fractions and combined fractions both in her blood, which was going to proof the composition, that it was carried in binary, was just mixed, and was gong to almost kill her, perhaps for elements of the binary components being more toxic in raw, unmixed, form.
You can see why, especially with all the upheaval brought by things going wrong, the plotters, in addition to needing to prevent CCTV showing the delivery and drop circulating, needed to prevent the phone call to the Skripals at home coming to be known. The first they would want to do would be to erase Sergei’s phone. Then, especially if they did that with too much hurry, forgetting to check for other calls that might have been, they would need to ask, somehow without revealing anything, and pretending, if there were any calls to either Skripal’s numbers, that the non-existence of records of those was not for their erasures, but because the Skripals had turned off their phones. So, “where were the Skripals?” (when they were home) and “why were their phones off?” (when they were on).
Where the evidences end, or waver to uncertain, and conjecture begins, you can tell here, including where the thinning is for the lack of CCTV, including in the Mill, where Sergei might or might not have made a call, or calls, himself, perhaps updating the plotters to his location, or to others updating them. All of the conjectural fill does fit in, and adhere to the logical and reasonable criteria for conjectural evidences, and does dovetail with the evidences that are certain.
You can trace (and listen in to) all phone calls via cell tower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_tracking
Police will have a full record of who phoned whom in Salisbury on that day.
Anidea
Your statements: “You can trace (and listen in to) all phone calls via cell tower” and “Police will have a full record of who phoned whom in Salisbury on that day”.
Suggests a startling ignorance of the realities of modern technology, and perhaps a little too much watching of CSI and related programmes.
The phone companies maintain records of phone calls made via their networks for one purpose only – revenue, they charge for the use of their service. I accept that they may hand over these records to the police, but the record is just that a number established a connection with another number, just that, no more.
Trace and listen in – debatable, this may have been true in GSM times but now we have 3G and more. To listen requires that the network operations centre intercepts the traffic between two devices communicating via the network – this is no mean feat as anyone familiar with network technology knows, very feasible, but not trivial.
PS my knowledge doesn’t come from Wikepedia, it is based on my own education and work experience.
It is a matter of law and storage. Secret Services are beyond the law.
https://www.ted.com/speakers/malte_spitz
But any station of the route of a cell phone call can be used to listen in or store connections
https://www.disklabs.com/how-mobile-phone-masts-work/
This here is what NSA does according to Snowdon
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/04/nsa-storing-cell-phone-records-daily-snowden
And law in Britain deems security more important than privacy
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/04/uk-surveillance-proposal-nsa-gchq-edward-snowden
Anidea
You quote second hand sources – which suggests lack of first hand experience, something which I do possess.
Law and Storage – have you idea or understanding of the complexity underlying that statement? Well, I do. Back in the 80s I had the task of collecting and storing data traffic between Inland Revenue terminals and the mainframe computer. This was just one terminal mind, but even so I had to become quite creative in pruning the data traffic to achieve the end result; storage of traffic elements to calculate (offline) the response times). In those days storage and computing power were limited, much less so today, but even so the computing and storage problems remains because the amount of data being exchanged has magnified in step with the other two factors. Even when compressed, speech data is not insignificant (i.e. it requires a bandwidth of about 32kbit/s to encode it), so imagine how much storage is required, and how much – non-revenue generating – bandwidth is required to transport it to the storage elements. I’ll answer, IT IS A LOT !!
Storing Cell phone records – this is same as what the phone company does to calculate the charges it makes for use of it’s service. It’s just that the NSA is doing it in parallel.
Law in Britain – again, there is a storage problem and a related problem related to how to pick out individual sessions, this is why they have pushed it down onto the ISPs, and the ISPs don’t like it because . . . wait for it, yes, you’ve guessed it, non-revenue generating storage and bandwidth elements.
This is wikepedia speaking, it’s me.
Back in the 80’s. It is 2019. 1984 long gone.
Terabytes are no problem now. Data is considered “the new oil”
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2017/05/06/the-worlds-most-valuable-resource-is-no-longer-oil-but-data
They collect, obsessively, everything, to feed artificial intelligence with. We are at Exabytes now. Yes it is driven by economy, not secret service. The secret service stuff is a by product.
If this type Information-Intel so easily obtained via
Security Services-Police would we not have zero [0]
crime-terrorist attacks?
I don’t understand this type of tech?
Please correct if I wrong…Thanks!
Did you notice that terrorist attacks recently were done by people “known to the security services”?
These are some reasons for that I can think of
– watching people to get information, but not having the manpower to effectively prevent them from doing anything
– recruiting agents in certain milieus, these agents might have an agenda of their own
– deliberately risking terrorist attacks to make people vote for surveillance
That is the problem with CCTV – you catch the chain of couriers but not the people who send them.
And not people wearing masks.
And you need huge manpower to sift through the stuff.
What they are working on are behavioural systems to predict and prevent criminality.
Like your car sniffing if you have drunk alcohol and blocking automatically.
Or the Chinese system where you have to collect brownie points to be a full rights citizen (that actually is a positive approach to it, which reminds me of trying to control a classroom).
Or facebook/whatsapp guessing what mood you are in.
All signalling data is collected – that’s the who, where, when – but you need a court warrant identifying the “target” for the voice data to be collected.
Yes, but that warrant is to collect realtime data, not stored data.
Who, what, where, when is nothing more than call records which the phone companies collects for revenue and billing purposes.
I know the internals of these systems, I’m not waffling.
Sorry, I should have addressed my reply to Mark (Confused.com)
“If this type Information-Intel so easily obtained via
Security Services-Police would we not have zero [0]
crime-terrorist attacks?
I don’t understand this type of tech?
Please correct if I wrong…”
I was trying to point out there are two specific parts to a mobile call. The signalling part, which if Snowdon is right, is passed on to the NSA for some bizarre reason, and the voice data, which is not collected unless with a High Court warrant, but they have to prove sufficient grounds. I’m wondering what that would have been for Sergei’s calls to be intercepted? He’d have to be classed as some sort of security risk.
Anonymous-1
I agree with what you say, but I think I should mention that there is a common misunderstanding regarding the notion the live collection of data. Any online interaction engaged in by a person which is collected by the authorities is only admissable in a court of law if it is appropriately sanctioned (i.e. with a warrant) – it should be clear small hurdles such as that will not prevent them from doing collecting such data on anyone who takes their interest, it’s just that they could not then use it in a court of law.
Draw attention to yourself and they will train their baleful eye upon you! They do not see the law as a limitation, it is a hindrance.
So, yes. They could have been collecting realtime data on Sergei. In fact, I’ll put a fiver on it.
Will we ever get to see it? Er,…, um,… NO!
PS Laws are often introduced not to serve some needed function, but instead to legitimise what is already occurring – RIPA is an instance, as is its sequel.
Listen, son.
I spent 45 years of my life in telecoms, computers (designing parts of them) and IT installing and helping design parts of those systems.
You have no idea of the complexities involved. Simply because you can walk into Currys and purchase a terabyte disc doesn’t imply “Terabytes are everything” is the solution.
You have no clue.
To store data you need filing systems (I’ve helped run data warehouses – data – for Sainburys), databases, bandwidth, cycles, processors, etc.
https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/graham-dwyer-trial-master-phone-allegedly-used-by-accused-in-contact-with-slave-phone-64-times-on-day-elaine-ohara-disappeared-31036196.html
Cascadian, you might want to read this article. The police can access who phoned who, and which masts the calls went through.
Patrick M.
I don’t need to Patrick. As I’ve stated many times, I’ve spent the last 45 years of my life as a technologist in telecoms, computers and IT. I’m intimately familiar with the technologies used. I know what they are or are not capable of.
The data you speak of is maintained by the phone companies themselves as normal operational data. But the main point is that they will maintain the minimum required for the purpose, no more. They are a commercial operation who will not spend money unnecessarily – of course, they may be mandated to do more (e.g. network ISPs being made to maintain records fo websites visited), but, as the ISP and other experts have told them, it is not trivial to intercept individual sessions and the equipment required is very expensive (something else I was exposed to).
Equipment is getting cheaper every month.
From the US
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/05/22/how-long-cellphone-companies-store-your-call-records
From Britain
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/07/27/data_retention_law_passed/
More from Britain
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/10/automatic-police-access-customers-mobile-phone-records-like-cash-machine-ripa-three-ee-vodafone
“Three of the UK’s four big mobile phone networks have made customers’ call records available at the click of a mouse to police forces through automated systems, a Guardian investigation has revealed.”
Oh yeah, the internet is covered, too
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-34715872
“The internet activity of everyone in Britain will have to be stored for a year by service providers, under new surveillance law plans.
Police and intelligence officers will be able to see the names of sites people have visited without a warrant, Home Secretary Theresa May said.
But there would be new safeguards over MI5, MI6 and the police spying on the full content of people’s web use.
Mrs May told MPs the proposed powers were needed to fight crime and terror.”
And – should you think that these are empty statements with no technology behind it – you can read up here
https://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/
Sigh!
Cascadian, this is all a bit “angels on the head of a pin” as the whole thing was an Op to remove Sergei and disrupt the network he had created.
But you are factually wrong, call and mast information is stored. You should read the article I linked.
Patrick.
Anonymous – Anidea?
Where in my statements about call record data being recorded is there something that is factually incorrect?
Call record data – collected for billing and revenue generation – would include: * *the number initiating the call, thus identifying the sim
*the cell with which the handset (containing the sim) established a connection
*the destination cell and associated handset, or terrestial handset
*the duration of the call
As stated previously, the phone companies are commercial organizations, they don’t spend unnecessarily.
And, to be blunt, I tire of you quoting second hand sources without any indication of actual experience of the technologies involved – and by this I mean data networks.
Enjoy your time on the head of pin.
Sorry, it has been a long time I met someone in the industry claiming “experience” as an asset.
I did talk to a fairly young guy last year though who said he would never have believed a smartphone RAM of 8 Gigabyte.
There are just too many assumptions that are not correct. I will just point out the first two:
1) You say: “witnesses reporting seeing him shaky and unsteady” – that was indeed reported but the first 2 reports said ‘everything was normal’ it was only 2 days later that the DM produced a very suspect article that was then copied by other MSM outlets. The DM report was almost certainly planted to create the impression that Sergie had been unsteady, for which no real evidence exists.
2) You say: ” I suspect the Mill had no security cameras at all” – this is totally wrong! The Mill had at least 12 security cameras (that we know about).
Having an alternative theory is fine but it must include the known facts – sadly your theory ignores the known facts.
The traffic cameras were not working that day and hadn’t done for 2 years, the City centre cameras (CityWatch cameras were all working, 64 of them). So the traffic cameras at Wilton rd (St Pauls Roundabout), Churchill Way (Castle St / Rd Roundabout) and London Rd (St Marks Roundabout) could not have provided the evidence that they were “seen”.
[It is strange that we were not shown the India Ave / Devizes Inn / Shell garage CCTV footage of their trip to AND from the cemetery (depending which route was taken, Devizes Rd or Wilton Rd.]
Possibly the location information came from the location pings from their phones however that appears to have disappeared at 9:15.
I don’t put any interpretation on the way the “sightings were given” the order in which they were stated does not indicate to me that was the direction of travel if only one time (9:15) was ascribed.
The response of food and alcohol to a diabetic hypo was odd, should have been sugars first, then carbohydrates, no alcohol, that would make more sense. But the behaviour described by some witnesses might suggest a hypo condition.
The bench in the CCTV shot of the Russian pair on Fisherton bridge at 13:05 (130m from the famous bench) had snow and slush still on and around it, it would not be dry to sit on. However a witness has said he and his partner were sat on the famous bench earlier in the day.
https://ibb.co/dSVDFf [That bench is the same distance from the CCTV camera and the famous bench is from the Maltings Walk CCTV camera (40m) ie that is the detail of the scene at the bench that the police have, there is also another Council camera overlooking the bench area on Sainsburys 50m away] https://ibb.co/k8j9WQT
The Mill had 12 CCTV cameras, the police seized all the footage. Council CCTV camera tracked everyone’s movements around the Maltings, bench, Mill and Zizzis, the police know the precise routes that were taken and the times, they know exactly what occurred in the Mill.
The Met have released a CCTV Image of a suspect regarding
paint being thrown-daubed on Statues-London.
Yes its a crime and disrespectful.
Why cant Met release CCTV footage-images of what happened
at-near Bench-Salisbury?
They don’t want help from public because they know inside job.
I think poor Dawn witnessed incident and silenced.
I have no evidence but this is my idea. Charlie was implicated
and out of depth.
To Peter
Do you know if Charlie has to sign the Official Secrets Act?
Do you know if he received anything from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme, if not he ought to apply?
If you can’t say, just say.
To Paul
I’ve been reading through the posts and you replied to a John Jennings from the USA. You said:
“Senior US officials were complicit, likely on a ‘rogue’ basis” – I have a source who has told me that the US was certainly involved and when I queried “exactly which arm of the US?” I was told “US military”. Whilst I cannot divulge the source, please assume it is trust worthy. How would that change your thinking?”
So your source is 100% sure that the US military were involved?
My source (non UK, who I have known for over 20 years and has a senior position for a foreign government) initially called it a “US directed show”.
I replied: “Which US faction do you mean? Trump? Military? CIA? Deep state? etc?”
The reply was: “US military”.
US Defense Threat Agency – They are military based in Germany’s Ramstein
http://www.dtra.mil/Mission/
Are they the ones running the US laboratory in Porton Down?
All you need to know is in here:
https://www.politforums.net/english/1522357924.html
Peter,
OPCW and weaponised opiates was probably the fallout of the Moscow theatre hostage “rescue”.
The tox world seems to be believe that Carfentanil was in an aerosol sprayed into the crowd.
Thus, the first use of an opiate as a weapon, so OPCW had to take note and add it as a chemical weapon.
The Moscow Theatre Siege was in 2002, the recent push to have the group reclassified by the OPCW was in Aug 2018 (or that’s when the paper was published), Porton Down were driving it (Timperley), the OPCW’s legal bigwig was fronting it (Matthews).
Check out Matthews here and Timperley Boss at Porton Down DSTL and outgoing OPCW Chairman Timperley.
https://www.opcwday.org/speakers/
Fatalities in the Moscow Theatre Siege 170 out of 850 affected = 20%
Fatalities in Wiltshire Poisonings 1 out of 5 affected = 20%
https://www.opcwday.org/speaker/christopher-timperley/
https://www.opcwday.org/speaker/robert-j-mathews/
Russia has declared its chemical weapon stocks destroyed end of 2017. It is possible that they are trying to find another reason to travel to Russia.
For Operational Reasons will Contractors working on roof
47 CMR be required to work-operate in Spacesuits if working
more than three meters above ground level?
Have Health-Safety Officials assessed risks-work involved?
Other parts of the story have changed recently, we had the Chief Constable tell us Bailey was a first responder and a hero we now know that was not true, in fact the actual first police responders were not at all impressed by Bailey’s contribution;
“The uniformed officers called CID and a duty inspector. They helped get the Skripals into ambulances. Sergei was still rigidly fixed in a sitting position, so it was hard to manoeuvre him on to a stretcher. CID officers attended. “They were like: ‘That’s fine, everything’s OK’, and off they went again,” said Holloway.”
Pritchard also said that the first responders were sent to hospital overnight on Sunday for decontamination, that too wasn’t true. P C Collins went to bed without even a wash.
I suppose we were told these lies for “operational reasons”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/14/we-did-our-best-police-who-rushed-to-skripal-scene-tell-of-shock-and-pride
This Is Very Interesting. Thank You!
Looks like the MeToo fundamentalist militia have joined forces with government agencies.
Is Alex Salmond on Integrity Initiative’s hit list? I suppose just appearing on RT automatically places him on.
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/why-leslie-evans-must-resign/
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/01/why-does-the-state-hate-alex-salmond/
He was a regular at RT, and I read it first on Margarita Simonyan’s Telegram first, even before it hit the headlines. She said it would most likely be a ‘sexual’ smear similar to what they tried with Assange. She turned out to be right. It’s all becoming so predictable nowadays. She also said that working for RT can be dangerous work.
I think we are being prepared for another announcement, the Skripal plot is to be rewritten again.
First we had Novichok and it must have come from Russia
And then Porton Down in High Court papers confirmed it might be Novichok or it could be a “related compound” or “closely related agent” and later said it could have come from anywhere.
Then it emerged that Iran actually synthesised 5 Novichoks and 4 Hybrids in 2016 and published the formulas and manufacturing method under the watchful eye of the OPCW.
Then Porton Down and the OPCW pushed to have weaponised Opiates known as Incapacitants re-badged as Central Nervous System – Acting Chemicals or Nerve Agents for short.
Then the OPCW wanted to add two New groups of chemicals to the prohibited list, one of them being the substance used in Salisbury and Amesbury.
These, we are told were New to the OPCW, they hadn’t come across them which begs the question how Porton Down, the OPCW and the Independent Verifying Labs knew that it was a Novichok. And how Mrs May knew it came from Russia.
Before the Skripal affair the OPCW advice on the period for time of a Nerve Agent to cause Clinical Symptoms was “20-30 mins” by contact through the skin.
http://web.archive.org/web/20180314094036/https://www.opcw.org/protection/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/
But when Public Health England (PHE) gave advice after the Skripal poisoning they said
“If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.”
Now these two pieces of advice are clearly not reconcilable, or at least I thought not. I queried PHE on their advice and asked for an explanation; what I received back actually shocked me because not only can their new statement not be reconciled with the pre Skripal OPCW advice, it completely contradicted PHE’s post Skripal advice. This is what they told me;
“Both statements are correct, but answer different questions.
2) PHE “This Stuff” (Novichok) presents its symptoms (through skin contact) between 3
(minimum) and 12 hours The minimum 3 hours is for contact with a very high quantity.
1
OPCW: Symptoms will appear through skin contact (Nerve agents in general) between 20
and 30 minutes.
The PHE statement gives (1) an upper limit to the time within which symptoms might appear
after exposure to the lowest dose likely to still be able to give clinical symptoms (12 hours);
and (2) the upper limit to the time within which symptoms are likely to arise after exposure to
a quantity likely to cause severe clinical harm (3 hours).
The OPCW statement refers to the average time likely to be taken for symptoms to appear
where exposure to a high dose has occurred (that is one that is likely to cause significant
illness).
Again, both statements are correct, but answer different questions.”
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/539752/response/1289350/attach/html/2/968%20FOI%20Public%20advice%20on%20Novichok.pdf.html
I hope you are keeping up.
So I have asked PHE to review their response. However they are in one heck of a mess. Trying to rewrite history, science and previous advice is not going to fool anyone unless the expatiation that goes with the next version of the narrative is credible and more importantly honest.
What I think is likely is that it will be announced that the “New” Novichok found in Salisbury, that was not on the banned list of the OPCW will turn out to have very special properties not least its effect on various human bodies and the capability to not affect some people, harm some a little, make some really ill and kill others in varying periods of time depending on the weather but remains pure and undegraded when subject to rain and snow for several weeks.
The other problem in credibility is where did the knowledge come from in to make the statements of how long “this stuff” takes to initiate clinical symptoms. Has it been tested on animals or people? If so where did that supply of Novichok / Related Compound come from, who made it, why didn’t the OPCW know about it???
Now its great to have hindsight but honesty doesn’t require hindsight, if you don’t know you say we don’t know. But to make make stuff up in a situation of this seriousness is absolutely and utterly unacceptable.
But more unacceptable would be if Porton Down knew what this “unknown” substance was before the OPCW and it had been synthesised and tested on animals or people.
Whatever the next version is it cannot undo the damage already done in confidence, trust and credibility of HMG and her Agencies.
Have I got this right?
1) The Skripals (or actors posing as the Skripals) were poisoned with something classed as an “incapacitating agent”.
2) British government claimed Skripals were poisoned with a “military grade nerve agent”.
3) The OPCW has re-classified the “incapacitating agent” as a “nerve agent”.
4) This retrospectively makes the government’s untrue statement true.
5) That’s all right then.
All after the alleged event 04-03-18 I must add!
Falsify non-existent evidence then fit it to a lie.
The paper was put forward by the chief legal brain at the OPCW Matthews and supported by a CW boss at Porton Down who happens to be the chairman of the OPCW Timperley.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326916630_Central_Nervous_System-acting_chemicals_and_the_Chemical_Weapons_Convention_A_former_Scientific_Adviser's_perspective
“…Member States of the Chemical Weapons Convention are discussing the types of toxic chemicals which are permitted for use for various law enforcement purposes including domestic riot control”.
That sounds ominous.
Your post actually opens a new can of worms.
“Then Porton Down and the OPCW pushed to have weaponised Opiates known as Incapacitants re-badged as Central Nervous System – Acting Chemicals or Nerve Agents for short.”
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2018/11/rc4nat26%28e%29.pdf
“Toxic (and potentially lethal) chemicals that target the central nervous system (CNS), so-called “incapacitating chemical agents or ICAs”, and their potential use in certain law enforcement scenarios, have been discussed in numerous forums. We believe these chemicals pose a serious challenge for the Convention.”
Did the United States keep the “Russian VX” out of discussion at OPCW because it was indeed less toxic than VX and might be used in “law enforcement”.
And was it used on Skripal because it was less toxic to intimidate them and get them under state control (to ask them about the sources of the Steele dossier) but was the fun over with the death of Dawn Sturgess?
To Peter
How was Charlie when you spoke to him? It was in person was it?
I speak with Charlie regularly on the phone band have met him.
He’s ok considering what he has been through, he is in happy at the moment because of the way he is being treated
I may report back further on this but when you look at the treatment served up to Bailey and what has been dished up to Charlie it is truly disgusting
He is unhappy at the moment
I think the first question the Coroner should ask Charlie at Dawn’s inquest, when it’s finally held, should be: Mr Rowley who were you referring to when you said to your brother, after you were told of Dawn’s death, “They’ve killed her”?
“He was semi-woken and said ‘they killed my girlfriend, they killed my girlfriend’. He was very angry and crying”, he told the Mirror.
Clinical Governance: official policy of risk management and sharing of best practice.
Following the Salisbury events, where SDGH was at the forefront of a totally new clinical situation for mainland UK. The NHS is mandated to share lessons learnt with all clinicians going forward.
I have stated previously that there will be no such activity. We are now ten months on and the NHS management must be assured that there will be no repeat Novihoax incidents in the UK. I am unaware of any efforts to share within the NHS the ‘expertise’ gained in treating the Skripals, DSB,
Charlie and Dawn.
Then again that would involve placing your professional integrity in front of your peers !
Hi Keith, Its most likely that they haven’t shared anything about the treatment in novichok cases because no one was poisoned with novichok and so they didn’t treat anyone for novichok poisoning and so they dont have anything to share. lol
And recent reports may suggest that Nick may have got poisoned with radium from under Sergei’s window frames. lol
Denise,
Did you have a reason for saying radium? I’d assumed it was polonium.
No Blunderbuss, I was just sending up the Daily Mail’s ridiculous and obvious II style Russia’s bad scare campaign, nuclear material found at Sergei’s house story, with my radium comment.
I think the scam was to try and link in the public’s mind, the Litvinenko polonium case, to this one.
From the Daily Mail jan 13 2019
“Novi-CHUCKED! Military in biohazard suits remove windows at home of ex-spy Sergei Skripal in ‘deep clean’ to remove potential traces of radioactive material after Russian poison attack
The Salisbury home of Sergei Skripal is to be dismantled as part of ‘deep clean’
Former spy, 66, and daughter Yulia, 33, survived exposure to Novichok in March
Current extensive phase involves covering house and garage with ‘sealed frame’
Military team will then dismantle and remove roofs on buildings over two weeks”
Thanks Denise.
I thought the DM was hinting at the Litvinenko polonium poisoning too.
It “highly likely” was the Daily Mail’s use of alternative facts.
But the way I am thinking now Skripals may very well have been used to get dangerous stuff out of ex-Soviet Union Russian places to put pressure on Russia for “cooperation”.
It was done before by German BND in 1995 in “Operation Hades”. Intriguingly it was done via Spain and 1995 was the year Skripal became a double spy.
I find this discussion about Polonium curious.
The stand out noted property of Polonium is its quite short half-life; of the many different (all radioactive) isotopes of Polonium, the longest half-life is only about 138 days. So, if you are going to shift polonium around the place you are going to need a lot of it and be quick about it to offset the possibility that your client is going to become a bit miffed about the inert pile of stuff you deliver.
Note, this document is from the NRC, not Wikipedia:
https://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/polonium.html
I guess the attraction is that it is “only produced by Russia”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/11/substance-used-to-poison-litvinenko-could-only-have-come-from-russia-inquiry
Another attraction is that it leaves a trace.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/litvinenko-poisoning-case-kovtun-apologizes-for-bringing-polonium-to-germany-a-454259.html
And, of course, it has this feel of weapons of mass destruction …
The current timeline is
Just before 1:30pm the Skripals leave home by car
1:40 They arrive at Sainsburys Car Park
1:45 they feed some ducks
2:20 – 3:35 They eat in Zizzis
4:03 Witness reports seeing them on the bench
At some point they went in the Mill pub.
Zizzis and the Mill were very badly contaminated
But where else did the go?
There are two periods of time, between Duck Feeding & Zizzi and Zizzi & bench, that the public are not sure where the bench couple were.
One of them is the visit to the Mill pub, possibly both if they returned to the Mill. The Mill had 12 CCTV cameras, the police seized the recordings.
1:45 – 2:20 (35mins)
3:35 – 4:03 (28mins)
The police know for certain the movements of the pair found on the bench but for Operational Reasons / National Security / Ongoing Criminal Investigation the public are not allowed to know. We are not allowed to see still images or moving video of the couple, we are not allowed to know their precise movements and we are not allowed to know exactly where they went and the routes they took.
Why is that? What is it about Operational Reasons / National Security / Ongoing Criminal Investigation that prevents us knowing those details?
Its a serious question, and one that it looks likely will be asked and an answer required in a Court of Law when a Freedom of Information Request is refused using those excuses and the appeal process begun.
The exemptions to the FoIA have to be Lawfully applied which means they have to be applied reasonably which means there must be a reasonable explanation not just a meaningless bald catch all “we’re not telling you”; that is unreasonable and therefore unlawful.
How much of the bench area did they decontaminate? Just a narrow area or did it reach into Avon Playground?
It is a kind of logical puzzle. Connect contaminated dots with likely movements.
How about collecting stuff at Avon playground, going to the Mill, going to Zizzi, checking stuff at Zizzi, find something is missing, returning to the Mill, returning to Avon playground.
At some stage someone finds the stuff that was missing and puts it into a collection box.
Bailey sent for what was missing and finding some of it.
They removed the bench, planter, steel gazebo with tiled roof and the paving bricks in the area, then they dug up the earth under the area and then relaid the paving bricks
Fisherton Street to Avon Playground is a 6 minute walk?
Not at its nearest point it’s not, not even at my slow walking pace.
Google claims 0.3 miles via Chapel Place. 10 Minutes if you are slow?
From the nearest point of Fisherton St to the playground is less than 200m.
But what is your point?
Distract from the discussion?
Borishov and Petrov walking into a cul de sac in broad daylight to poison a spy is not very likely.
But Borishov and Petrov exchanging stuff with Skripals when feeding ducks is what I expect from a spy story.
The only reason why Skripal dealt in Novichok as Litvinenko dealt in Polonium would be because they thought it could be traced back to Russia.
I agree the two were set up but it might very well have been Skripal who set them up in the first place.
German BND in 1995 imported plutonium from Moscow to Germany via a Spanish agent. Skripal will know about it because he was posted in Spain then. It is the year he is reported to have been recruited by MI5. The importers minus the Spanish agent were arrested when they arrived in Munich. I suspect it was not BND’s idea but “developed by US”.
It was used to put pressure on Russia to let the US “safeguard” Russian nuclear material.
https://www.russiamatters.org/analysis/25-years-nuclear-security-cooperation-us-russia-and-other-newly-independent-states
Cooperation was halted in 2014 “because of Crimea”
Chemical Threat Reduction agreement with Russia ended in 2013. End of 2017 Russia claimed it had destroyed all chemical weapons. This was confirmed by OPCW.
US Defense Threat Reduction Agency has been out of a lot of business recently
http://www.dtra.mil/Mission/
It is possible they are trying aggressively to get a foot back into the door.
Anidea, the paving under the bench was replaced in a cheap way. Instead off changing say 3m square they changed individual pavers. I assume this was to lend credibility to flecks of vomit landing on individual bricks. It looks ridiculous.
And as to an exchange I still think that happened in Priory Square. The playground and Dauwalders are tens of metres in both directions, and we know Skripals and P&B were in those locations at the same time.
Patrick
Charlie carried the fake stuff in his pocket for a couple of days.
Is this titbit of information to explain the over stressed-damage
to the box?
And who would carry a 3 by 3 1/2 by 1/2 inch box around in his pocket for a couple of days, if in fact he did do that?
And 1/2 an inch seems too thin to me for a perfume box anyway. More like an inch thick?
And if the box was wrapped in thick plastic, “like bacon is packaged” it couldn’t have become as damaged, as it appears in the photo, before the wrapping was removed.
Yes it seems this snippet of information has been added Post Charlie’s
Interview and after Blogmires questioned the condition of The Box as
shown via Met Police.
3X3X1/2 Inch box does not seem correct when you think of internal packaging
and size-diameter of bottle held within?
Charlie very precise over his measurements..?
“And if the box was wrapped in thick plastic, “like bacon is packaged” … ”
In his ITV interview, Charlie uses the word ‘cellophane’ which is nothing like the sort of robust, sealed packaging used for bacon rashers.
I wonder why the difference between the public and private descriptions …
Good Point,Correct! Big difference between a Shrink Wrap Machine
and an Industrial Bacon Wrap Machine.
Could such a machine be fitted into a backpack -operated in a
Hotel Room-Public Toilet?
Think MI56 over engineered Bacon [Novihoax] Perfume Package.
Try getting through Customs with a Bacon Wrap Machine and plug
to connect U.K.socket-power without getting pulled.
You can buy an adaptor at W H Smith.
Look at the two photos
https://www.sott.net/article/405554-Skripal-first-responder-revealed-as-Chief-Army-Nurse-dossier-connection-blamed-on-Russia
https://www.explicite.info/login?redirectTo=/articles/3145-espions-russes-poison-mortel-et-affaire-détat–la-mort-oubliée-de-dawn-sturgess
Anonymous-1, what point are you trying to make with these two photographs? Are you suggesting that they are the same person?
Are you suggesting that Colonel McCourt and Dawn Sturgess are the same person? It doesn’t seem very likely.
They look spookily similar. Couldn’t help thinking about:
“Bellingcat has been able to confirm the actual identity of one of the two officers. The suspect using the cover identity of “Ruslan Boshirov” is in fact Colonel Anatoliy Chepiga, a highly decorated GRU officer bestowed with Russia’s highest state award, Hero of the Russian Federation.”
I’m not suggesting Dawn and Colonel McCourt are one of the same because one is dead. If there was ANY doubt about the identity of “Ruslan Boshirov” and “Alexander Petrov” they would have been denied visas. When the press started asking questions about their visas, the government refused to answer.
There is absolutely no doubt that Elliot Idiot Bellingcat would claim, from those photos, that Dawn and Alison definitely the same person!
and this
Reference CAS-5242305-FFF86M
Thank you for taking the time to contact us again. We are sorry to learn that you were not satisfied with our earlier response.
We raised your remaining concerns with the Panorama team involved in this investigation. They respond:
‘Thank you for your contacts.
You take issue with comments made in the programme by former Soviet scientist Vil Mirzayanov. When Mr Mirzayanov described Salisbury that day as rainy and muggy, it was clear from the programme that this was in the context of an early March afternoon, in the immediate aftermath of an exceptionally cold snap referred to as ‘the Beast from the East’ and described in the programme as “a bitterly cold Siberian storm.” Heavy snow falls had just melted, creating moisture in the air, the signature of a rapid thaw.
According to the BBC’s weather provider, MeteoGroup, rain was forecast for the morning and throughout the afternoon across Wiltshire, leading to damp conditions. Their records also show temperatures of between 9 and 11 degrees, humidity of over 80% and relatively speaking, for a winter’s afternoon, the audience will have understood “muggy” in this context.
You will know that Mr Mirzayanov offered a number of reasons in the programme as to why Novichok was not fatal in this instance. He said in the programme, “Novichok breaks down in damp conditions weakening its toxicity.”
Witnesses who were in Salisbury told us that it was damp that day. Furthermore, CCTV of the two Russian suspects walking along Bridge Street/Fisherton Street at the bridge over the River Avon, was included in the programme at just after 45 minutes in. The CCTV clearly shows melting snow in the gutters and very damp pavements. This CCTV was recorded at about the time the Skripals were leaving their home in Christie Miller Road, which is just under a mile away. Given the weather conditions for that period, the programme team believes it was appropriate to report Mr Mirzayanov’s view that damp conditions may have been a factor in the Skripals surviving.
Thank you for taking the time to write us.’
LOL the BBC considers a temperature high enough to melt snow to be a sign of damp muggy weather. They seem to be confusing melting with evaporation.
The reply does contain some slightly relevant information though – the forecast for midday was for much wetter weather than it turned out to be:
“rain was forecast for the morning and throughout the afternoon across Wiltshire, leading to damp conditions.”
If we believe Vil Mirzayanov, then the GRU mustn’t have bothered checking the weather forecast – if they had, they would have known that the Novichok would not work that day.
That’s the same GRU that, according to the Telegraph this week, went to the trouble of framing Pablo Miller by setting up a fake Linkedin page in his name long before the attack.
Or maybe the GRU were actually clever to use Novichok because it’s very persisent (as the OPCW said), and what Vil Mirzayanov said in Panorama is therefore wrong. I’m getting confused. But I guess that’s the idea of the British media reports.
According to this rather badly-worded sentence the weather forecast caused the damp conditions
“According to the BBC’s weather provider, MeteoGroup, rain was forecast for the morning and throughout the afternoon across Wiltshire, leading to damp conditions.”
The BBC give no confirmation that there was rain, so Mirzanov was wrong to say it was rainy and therefore we can assume the Novichok wasn’t washed off the doorhandle, but rather broke down because of atmospheric humidity. 82% humidity isn’t that high for Salisbury, and the Novichok was applied at the least humid time of day. By 10 o’clock it had reached 100% humidity so we might wonder how DS Bailey could have been poisoned.
Damp weather forecasts always cause damp weather. That’s why people blame the weather forecaster for the weather.
It’s like wind turbines causing windy weather.
Please stop providing Rail Networks with more excuses for
delays-cancelations!
Why they just don’t come clean and say Driver couldn’t be
bothered getting out of bed this morning due to damp weather.
Don’t worry, they will introduce drive-it-yourself trains soon.
Wow! You get a detailed weather explanation from the BBC.
In their response to my complaint they come up with drivel, including the fictitious claim that DSB entered the house at midnight under instruction.
Ironically that might be true, as Bailey was probably ordered to break in by MI5.
“It wasn’t cold” which made one witness remember an aggressive dark skinned man man wearing a mask and hoody.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html
This man was caught by several cctv cameras.
Makes you wonder why the police were not interested in him, or the masked female who was also in the area at the same time.
“It wasn’t cold, I was out without a coat, so it didn’t make sense that he had his hood up and face covered.’”
So presumably it was not raining either
Mr Francis reported the masked woman (in the Pret shop) to the police, on Wednesday. This was the day after the CCTV of the Market Walk woman carying a large red bag was made public. The initial version of the DM story mentioned a ‘large coloured bag’… that reference was edited out of the story, within half an hour.
I have tried to contact Mr Francis to ask about the bag but he has not replied. From another source, I have been told that the woman in Pret was carrying a large red bag.
I strongly suspect that what triggered Mr Francis’s memory and made him report what he had seen on Wednesday, was not the weather but the fact that he recognised the bag in Pret and the bag in Market Walk as one and the same.
This could be easily disproved with 30 seconds of CCTV…..
They obviously put our complaints together. I just had replies to 2
Reference CAS-5235913-PY5JDW
Thank you for contacting us.
Both Mark Urban’s book and the media reports you mention pre-date the very detailed and at the time of Panorama’s broadcast, most up to date briefing by the detective leading the Salisbury inquiry. He told the programme team that the Skripals were at home when Novichok was applied to their front door handle. Given this, we are confident our reporting is accurate.
You are correct that Dean Haydon told the programme that both Sergei and Yulia Skripal got Novichok on their hands, therefore we are confident the audience will have understood this and viewed the dramatic reconstruction in the context of his words. As I’m sure you will appreciate the programme team, must be free to make editorial decisions as to what it includes from a contributor’s interview and the level of detail it chooses to go into.
The programme teams stands by its journalism and the editorial decisions it made.
If you are still dissatisfied, you can contact the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU). The ECU is stage 2 of the BBC’s complaints process. Details of the BBC complaints process are available at http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/handle-complaint/ where you can read the BBC’s full complaints framework.
If you wish to contact the ECU please write to it directly within 20 working days of receiving this reply. Please explain to it why you believe there may have been a potential breach of standards or other significant issue for it to investigate. You can email ecu@bbc.co.uk, or write to: Executive Complaints Unit, BBC, Broadcast Centre, London W12 7TQ. Please include the case reference number we have provided in this reply.
Kind regards
Deborah Dawson
BBC Complaints Team
This is at least explicit confirmation that Dean Haydon considered the Skripals to be at home when the poisoning occurred.
Peter and others.
The BBC replied to my Panorama complaint this afternoon.
I am really hitting the high points with this and WPD Professional Standards both giving me the “go away” sign, which usually just makes me more determined.
Utter rubbish below, especially in the light of Abigail McCourt’s efforts.
They view DSB as first in the house under instruction, which was not what Bailey said in their own programme.
As for the comments on the arrest warrants. Preposterous that they would be issued under aliases, when the correct names were known.
Everything in this fiasco is “operational reasons”.
I am off to the pub for operational reasons.
—– Forwarded message —–
From: “bbc_complaints_website@bbc.co.uk”
Sent: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 14:11
Subject: BBC Complaints – Case number CAS-5237251-9VNGN1
Reference CAS-5237251-9VNGN1
Thank you for contacting us again. We are sorry to learn that you were not satisfied with our earlier response.
We raised your remaining concerns about the Nov 22 edition of Panorama with the team involved.
We stand by the journalism in this investigation. It’s clear from the opening interviews that Paramedics were the first responders on the scene – we heard from them directly, while DS Bailey was tasked later that night to investigate the victim’s home (“I was the first person into the house”).
This was not about hearing ‘the Government’s version of events’ but rather first hand accounts from those who were there at the time. We heard from a number of eyewitnesses with direct experience of what happened on the day and the man who is leading the police investigation. We can assure you that the team challenged and questioned every facet of what they were told.
The unfolding events were complex and we accurately reflected them. While you feel other areas deserved more attention, we can’t cover every possible eventuality within a limited scope.
We’ve noted your additional points, including a query as to why arrest warrants were not issued in the suspect’s real names. We understand the British Government knew the true identities of the two men, but chose not to release them for operational reasons.
Having offered the above, I’m afraid we cannot correspond with you further at this first stage of the complaints process. If you are still dissatisfied, you can contact the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU). The ECU is stage 2 of the BBC’s complaints process. Details of the BBC complaints process are available at http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints/handle-complaint/ where you can read the BBC’s full complaints framework.
If you wish to contact the ECU, please write to it directly within 20 working days of receiving this reply. Please explain to it why you believe there may have been a potential breach of standards or other significant issue for it to investigate. You can email ecu@bbc.co.uk, or write to: Executive Complaints Unit, BBC, Broadcast Centre, London W12 7TQ.
Please include the case reference number we have provided above in this reply. If you have a disability which means you cannot write to the ECU and may need the BBC to provide a reasonable adjustment for you to access stage 2, you can telephone the ECU on 0303 0806145.
Kind regards
Deborah Dawson
BBC Complaints Team
http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints
The police lied for operational reasons.
How are we or the BBC meant to know what actually happened?
If the BBC knew the police were lying, then they were lying.
So what I take from that is for operational reasons we have been told a pack of lies about what happened in Salisbury and Amesbury and that’s ok
Bizarre way to conduct a public relations exercise
Typically useless stock reply but, if “We can assure you that the team challenged and questioned every facet of what they were told.” It would be interesting to know exactly what questions were asked and to whom. Are BBC programs subject to a freedom of information request?
No. They are excluded on the grounds of Journalism.
I asked the BBC under the FoIA what information the BBC had that allowed them to know that Dr David Kelly was dead before his body was found and that painkillers were involved in the death several hours before his body was discovered by the forensic team.
They refused to tell me citing Journalism as their exemption.
It is now obvious that the Police and BBC lied for operational reasons
Ok, I was afraid of that, but have they been doing any journalism?
Also, whilst we are on the topic of FOI requests, I have some background in NHS data, has anyone persued any FOI requests with Salisbury Hospital?
Personal data difficult to get to unless phrased carefully.
So does a question about the errant lead consultant in A&E could be worthwhile.
And were the nursing staff that looked after the “Skripals” regular staff or drafted in and where from.
There is one though that could cause a fun. When was the patient named as Sergei shipped out?
There are lots more just use your imagination, and put them on What Do They Know website.
Yes Peter I have been thinking along those lines with respect to the team from Porton Down who were coincidentally present when the Skripals were allegedley admitted. Re personal patient data, It would be nice to know diagnostic details. I was interested to find out at an NHS refresher course on a very hot day last summer on “Information governance” that with the Skripal case in mind I asked the data manager that was addressing us under what circumstances could personal patient data be released. Apparently this can only be done if it is deemed to be “in the public Interest”. Although Im not sure who decides what the “public interest” is. Also, it occurs to me that they might produce anonamysed data for the A&E department cross referenced against treatment type, diagnosis etc which might be of use.
“…have they been doing any journalism?”
Good point. If they haven’t been doing any journalism, they can’t use the journalism exemption.
Chief Nurse of the Army….
Alison McCourt and her daughter Abigail were the first responders at the bench.
Alison is an experienced nurse and has spent many years in the military.
Co-incidentally, she was appointed to her role only a month before the Skripal incident.
I can well imagine a mother’s pride in having her daughter involved in triaging and administering first aid at the park bench.
But what is the reality of what they encountered?
Two adults, unconscious or catatonic outdoors in a public area.
(No traffic accident, gunshot, blood flowing from wounds etc.)
Alison must have gone into auto pilot mode based on her 30 years in the military.
However, the most obvious causes of the Skripals demise could be eliminated immediately.
1) Not electrical shock. Lightning strike, power cable etc.
2) Simultaneous heart attack, embolism, cardiac arrest? Highly unlikely
Chemical attack – Incapacitating agent, nerve agent, drug overdose or poisoning.
Seems obvious in hindsight, but why then have your teenage daughter exposed to risk?
My own thoughts might have been a suicide pact, but that would have involved some sort of substance inhalation or ingestion.
Other adults were present, maybe not first aiders.
This comes to light some 10 months post event. The Army or HMG must have given Colonel McCourt permission for this to be aired, and her daughter Abigail to receive the award.
(Separate point to the Blogmirers, what if it was a suicide pact with some chemical Sergei had access to, kept in his loft, transferred from its primary container into a perfume bottle, taken to the bin by Sergei at some time prior to the park bench incident.
Sergei agitated at the Mill, then decides with or without Yulia’s approval, to attempt to end their lives. HMG actions save them, DSB sent to the house to find the chemical stash, PD and little Gavin hatch the Bad Russia plot, etc. etc.)
I haven’t been following the comments for a while but the Alison/Abigail McCourt development is almost surreal, and I wonder if this remarkable coincidence might cause some of those who believe the government’s story to doubt it. I notice the Guardian didn’t report the identity of Abigail’s Mum in their coverage.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/20/novichok-poisoning-victims-sergei-skripal-first-helped-by-teenage-girl
I listened to the short interview with Abigail. What I find intersting is that she is fairly detailed in her description of events up till the point where she says “…we went over, and obviously it developed from there, and we wwnt home.” So she didn’t say anything at all about what she did. I find this curious, because this is what people would want to know after you’ve won a Life Saver award. People want to hear about what you actually did to save their lives!
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2782928/exclusive-teenage-girl-describes-moment-she-found-collapsed-skripals
The Guardian article does in fact identify Abigail’s mother:
“…her mother, Alison, who is an army colonel and chief nursing officer…”
SayLess, you are correct, I am a careless skimreader. Presumably Angela McCourt is the passing doctor mentioned here
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/14/we-did-our-best-police-who-rushed-to-skripal-scene-tell-of-shock-and-pride
Lol, GZ, I fear you are conflating the decorated military nurse, or her prized daughter with Angela’s Ashes!
There is a Christian news organisation based in Florida, USA called Trunews led by someone called Rick Wiles.
Yesterday’s (22/1/19) edition of their video newscast ( or Godcast as they term it) discussed the Salisbury Scripal incident — From about 40 minutes onwards on the following video:
https://www.trunews.com/stream/five-eyes-are-better-than-one-is-uk-the-secret-source-of-the-russiagate-narrative
Hope this is of interest.
“Hilary had a server in her bathroom”.
OK, I fell off my chair laughing at that point (and you should be aware that I am considering sueing for injuries sustained).
Computers and bathrooms, it sort of puts my entire association with electronic equipment (45 years) into perspective.
I did like the picture though, odd that they should depict our Queen in that way isn’t? The truth manifests itself odd ways, sometimes.
Mind you, it’s a bit of stretch to assign credibility to people who quote the bible as fact and also claim to be bringing Muslims to (it’s the same god, folks) god – especially when one should be aware that Muslims regard Jesus as just another prophet.
It’s not completely wrong though. Her server was stored in a room that used to be her bathroom before it was turned into her server room.
@ Phill
A server room is a very different animal to a bathroom.
Just as a utility room on the second floor of Sea Containers house on the South Bank in London wasn’t a server room.
HOWEVER
Suitable modifications to the room: installation of power, air conditioning, network links, server racks, etc. was required to convert the utility room into a server room.
The same would have been true of the bathroom in Hilaries house. It misrepresents reality to say that it was just a (unmodified – this is what was implied) bathroom.
Either way – that she could have employed people to set up this server with the capability to receive government e-mails without going through the firewall, gateways and proxy servers that should be used leaves me wondering about the truth of the story.
“Hilary had a server in her bathroom.”
Give the lady a break. She’s entitled to employ a butler.
Charlie was very exact-precise regarding size of Perfume Box
3×3 inch-1/2 inch.
I would have thought words like approximately-about the size of
would have been more realistic-like a ciggie packet size maybe?
MI56 are on to me. They sent Benji the binman to steal the rubbish bag from outside my house during the night. Just mine – all the other rubbish bags in the road are still there.
https://nowarnonato.blogspot.com/2018/03/the-past-porton-down-cant-hide.html
There’s a NO WAR NO NATO petition to sign if you want to.
Trump saying he will leave Nato….he has been neutralised by House of Representatives passing a bill to say they have control over belonging not him. Just shows you…..they want war?
http://johnhelmer.net/wiltshire-coroner-cannot-rule-novichok-as-cause-of-death-theresa-mays-skripal-story-fails-bottle-test/
And I see we are now back to a glass bottle. What happened to the plastic one? Ah, I’ve got it – the plastic one poisoned the Skripals and the glass one poisoned Dawn and Charlie.
The pictures of glass/plastic bottles as “evidence” remind me of the Iraq war. We were shown an aerial photo of a building with a lorry outside it and then a photo of the same building without the lorry. This was “evidence” that the building had contained chemical weapons but the lorry had taken them away. It might equally well have been a dustcart taking away the rubbish.
I can add a little detail, I have spoken with Charlie and he is as sure as he can be that he found the “perfume” in the bin behind the Charity shop although he is not certain. He says the plastic wrapper was thicker that cellophane, he said it was “thick like a packet of bacon”. The bin was a regular haunt for Charlie when he was “Treasure Seeking”, he has had several finds in that bin.
Charlie’s memory is he carried it around for a couple of days in his pocket before he gave it to Dawn. He also says he never used the toilets at Queen Elizabeth Gardens where traces of Novichok were reported found.
The toilets and the bin are both overseen by Council HD CCTV Cameras as is the front of the Charity shop.
A French Journalist has reported that she spoke with someone close to the case within the Met and was told the reason no charges have been brought in relation to Dawn’s death is that there is Insufficient Evidence
This is a paragraph from the French article (translated by Google)
“The police claimed that the Skripal and Dawn and Charlie incidents are related and that it is the same product used in both poisonings. But in the report of September 5, the police also admit “can not explain where the bottle of perfume was between the attack of the Skripal on March 4 and when Charlie Rowley said he found it on June 27”.
Since that report, nothing else has leaked about the investigation into the death of Dawn Sturgess. While we have already found the Skripal poisoning suspects, for Dawn, no charge was withheld. Contacted by Explicit, a source of the Metropolitan Police who prefers to remain anonymous specifies a troubling point. This is indeed Novitchok but “for the moment, it is impossible to know if it is the same Novitok’s lot used for the Skripal attack … and it may never be possible to know it. ” This is one of the reasons why no charge is currently withheld in the case of Dawn’s death: the evidence to show the involvement of the two Russian agents is insufficient.”
https://www.explicite.info/login?redirectTo=/articles/3145-espions-russes-poison-mortel-et-affaire-détat–la-mort-oubliée-de-dawn-sturgess
Are you serious?
About what? But yes everything I stated is serious, deadly serious.
So…..will he be called as a witness surely.
The John Helmer article is brilliant ! @All : Read it.
Peter, indeed „Insufficient Evidence“. It is impossible to link the Skripal poisoning to Charlie´s perfume bottle. If Coroner Ridley would be allowed to hold a proper inquest it would all be debunked.
Two questions remain : Where did this perfum bottle come from and was Novichok in it ?
Three : Where is the item that contaminated the Skripals ?
There certainly was “Novichok” of the same type found with Skripals in it as this second case after four months is a huge embarrrassement to the official narrative.
– that all this was about was assassinating the Skripals
Instead its aim is the scare.
It was deliberately made in a way it could not align with the door knob theory.
Well, the local pharmacist gave to me, in response to submission of a prescription for antibiotic spray for my ear, a glass spray bottle with a similar (not identical) nozzle.
Methinks that private education, with the use of expensive private tutors, is quite efficient at producing folk who can get through the gate restricting access to elite universities (provided they can cough up the fees). And such folk, provided the degree taken (e.g. politics, history and philosophy) isn’t too tasking, can acquire the necessary CV for entry into politics as special advisers and career politicians. Such folk, of course, are excellent at dreaming up false flags that illustrate all too clearly their intrinsic lack of brilliance and attention to detail.
The Coroner has to satisfy himself and the Jury need to be satisfied that the infromation they are getting from all the agencies is correct, factual and honest.
At the moment it does not appear to be.
It appears that Porton Down and the government knew that May’s claim that it must have been the Russians because only the Russians made Novichok. This is untrue. The Iranians sythethised it in 2016 and published the manufacturing method.
The Sept 5th Met Statement with photographs of the Russian suspects contains deliberately false information.
Public Health England advice on the effects of Novichok a ludicrously detached from the advice from the OPCW. The OPCW says Nerve Agents act through the skin and cause symtoms in 20-30mins. PHE said 3 hrs minimum for a large dose and up to 12 hours for a significant dose.
PHE are now saying they did not mean that and what they meant was an upper limit of 3 hours fro a large dose and up to 12 hours for the smallest dose that would cause clinical symptoms. They say have not given a lower limit (which is actually not true) but the gap in credibility between what the OPCW say and whatever PHE is saying today (it may have changed again) is too far at odds for people to place any confidence in it. Then take into account the vastly varying times with which the symptoms presented in all 5 victims and the conclusion must be that the evidence cannot be relied on.
So the Coroner and the Jury are facing being presented with information which has been given by these Agencies that cannot be trusted. This places in doubt if Novichok was involved at all.
I could not find what you say the OPCW quotes as latency period.
The who says this
http://www.emro.who.int/ceha/information-resources/nerve-gas-fact-sheet.html
“Latency period
The effect of exposure to sarin depends on the amount of the agent, route and duration of the exposure. The symptoms will appear within a few seconds after inhalation exposure to the vapor form and from a few minutes to 18 hours after exposure to the liquid form”
The advice has now been taken down but I have an archived link somewhere, will did out.
This is the relevant text
“Mechanism of Action
A characteristic of nerve agents is that they are extremely toxic and that they have very rapid effect. The nerve agent, either as a gas, aerosol or liquid, enters the body through inhalation or through the skin. Poisoning may also occur through consumption of liquids or foods contaminated with nerve agents.
The route for entering the body is of importance for the period required for the nerve agent to start having effect. It also influences the symptoms developed and, to some extent, the sequence of the different symptoms. Generally, the poisoning works faster when the agent is absorbed through the respiratory system than via other routes.
Poisoning takes longer when the nerve agent enters the body through the skin. Nerve agents are more or less fat-soluble and can penetrate the outer layers of the skin. However, it takes some time before the poison reaches the deeper blood vessels. Consequently, the first symptoms do not occur until 20-30 minutes after the initial exposure but subsequently the poisoning process may be rapid if the total dose of nerve agent is high.”
The archive has been wiped in goole and wayback machine, there are a few about but I would suggest to anyone interted in refering back to this OPCW page then save it on your pc as html and text, for some reason they don’t want us to see it
http://web.archive.org/web/20180314094036/https://www.opcw.org/protection/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/
original url now redirects or says no longer available
https://www.opcw.org/protection/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/
Would it be possible for someone to present all theblogmire info re N at the Inquest….I wonder if Russ Embassy or a legal representative of kind… would attend probably not……wonder if eg RT will be permitted ..
Excellent piece.
Duncan did you see this?
http://www.spectroscopynow.com/details/ezine/1591ca249b2/Iranian-chemists-identify-Russian-chemical-warfare-agents.html?tzcheck=1,1,1&
So what was really found in Salisbury
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/S_series/2018/en/s-1621-2018_e_.pdf
“DIRECTOR-GENERAL’S REQUEST TO THE SCIENTIFIC ADVISORY BOARD
TO PROVIDE ADVICE ON NEW TYPES OF NERVE AGENTS
Recent events involving the use of nerve agents against individuals in Malaysia and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have drawn considerable attention internationally, including in the scientific community. While the Malaysia incident involved a well-known V-series nerve agent, the incident in the United Kingdom involved a highly toxic nerve agent with a structure that has appeared in open literature but has never been declared under the Chemical Weapons Convention. For the chemical identified in the United
Kingdom incident, no information has been reported in peer-reviewed scientific literature.”
As I understand it the OPCW added 2 new chemical groups to the prohibited list last week and published their formulas.
They said one of them is what was used in Salisbury.
Which suggests what was used in Salisbury had not been banned.
Yet the Iranians synthesised 5 Novichoks (“along with four deuterated analogues2 – whatever that means) back in 2016, published the manufacturing method and shared the information with the OPCW.
What I would like to know and perhaps Duncan can assist, are the two chemicals that were added to the prohibited list last week the same as what the Iranians synthesised?
Deuterium is an isotope of hydrogen. ( as is Tritium)
Deuterated compounds are commonly synthesized so that the specific position of a hydrogen atom can be determined.
The molecular weight of the compound has its mass increased by 1 atomic mass unit. (amu) so that helps with the spectral elucidation too.
Every Hydrogen atom that is replaced by Deuterium results in the atomic wight of the molecule increasing by 1 amu.
A D4 designation means that the new molecule contains 4 Deuterium atoms.
It is a very common technique, and deuterated reagents and solvents are frequently used in organic synthesis and mass spec work.
The other thought that comes to mind that if the “New” chemical that was found in Salisbury was indeed New, how did Mrs May know it was called a Novichok and the Russians made it?
It could have been called XR958 and produced by somebody that followed the Iranian recipe and added a twist.
The only conclusion I can come to is that the “New” chemical wasn’t new but an old Novichok or Mrs May, Porton Down and the OPCW are not telling the truth.
And where did PD, the OPCW and the independent verification labs gets their reference samples / chemical formulas / Mass spec signatures from?
If none of them had seen it before, how did they know what it was? And where it came from?
One of the new chemicals was used in Salisbury.
But what about the other one? Who made that? Who is creating new 4th generation chemical nerve agents? Where did the OPCW get the sample / formula from for that 2nd new chemical?
Porton Down did not say “Novichok”. They said “of a type developed by Russia” “or that family”.
That would mean they could not attribute it clearly?
Theresa May thought it was good PR.
Could that mean all they had to put a name on it was Mirzayanov’s book?
everybody else said “we confirm Porton Down’s findings”
It seems to me that the Iranian chemists didn’t prove the extreme toxicity of “novichok”.
Russian statement
http://tass.com/politics/1039903
From the Russian statement.
Sounds to me like nobody owns up to having a sample and how they got it to check against, but that the Salisbury stuff looks similar what Mirzayanow described.
Which makes sense as he was interviewed right from the start but makes no sense as he describes Novichok’s characteristics in a completely different way than eg. Ugljev.
Czech laboratories seem to have tested A-230 but – they say – not A234.
“Thus, Russia objects against the three nations’ proposal to “put under control not the entire spectrum of toxic agents developed and patented in many member nations of the convention, including those called ‘Novichok’ in the West, but only two families of agents illustrated by abstract chemical compounds, which may not exist at all.” Iranian synthesis seems to be Novichok but not A-234.
So is it Novichok as developed by Edgewood?
There is this interesting Dutch article
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/03/21/unknown-newcomer-novichok-was-long-known-a1596490
which claims
“His (Mirzayanov’s) work was quoted in Western professional magazines and it became clear that institutions such as Edgewood had been investigating the Russian VX quickly and openly. The decisive factor must have been that the Russian VX is not very different from the American VX- and is also less toxic.”
Yes Peter, to me it is significant and I commented in the Blog last week.
The key aspect being:
The information was submitted to the OPCW more than a year before the “unique, it has to be Russia” deadly nerve agent was used in Salisbury.
The Iranians made the stuff. The stuff that could only be made by, or lost by, Russia
The French submitted a report to the OPCW about this, but according to my very reliable source, it was suppressed.
Well, we know it was suppressed, because it is not in the OPCW adchives.
“Salisbury Cathedral organ removed for major restoration”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46964676
I wonder if they will bury it.
Yes they found some Bacon Wrapping in the pipes
Watch and weep.
He may be an actor,I don’t know but the story could be told by any English voice about Britain.
This is where we are.
Its not a threat that if we don’t mend are ways this might happen.
We have arrived.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl1hUskTycc
our ways
Apart from France, Belgium and the Netherlands, Yellow Vest protests have so far taken place in:
Egypt, Poland, Bulgaria, Australia, New Zealand, Croatia, Canada, Finland, Germany, Iraq, Republic of Ireland, Finland, Taiwan.
Here is some video of the protests in Canberra:
https://twitter.com/UnityNewsNet/status/1086596979642245120/video/1
Odd that you can’t read about any of it in the ‘fake news’ MSM.
Bring back the Internationale!
Who will be next appearing at The Bench? Andy McNabb “Bravo-Roger-10-10”
Bear Grills eating Slugs or Captain J.T.Kirk with a Landing Party coming In Peace?
Not bad for a Sunday early closing…..
Sorry! Top Army Medic-Daughter wandering around Bench Area on a
Sunday 04-03-18 Sunday early closing hours…
DS Bailey looking for Illegal Workers on same date 04-03-18.
Strange Masked Aggressive Couple running around 04-03-18.
Mystery Couple and Red Handbags 04-03-18.
Air Ambulance on a Jolly Pleasure Flight 04-03-18.
No….Sorry…Not Having It….Total Hogwash-Rubbish!
I don’t think any sensible person believed the Novichok on the door handle ruse.
Why?
1) Because Mi6 had a Russian Manual on Assassination Techniques that was devoted to how to Coat Door Handles with Nerve Agent. Yet they didn’t bother to test the door handle for 2 weeks and deliberately put the police guarding the house and the people going in and out at risk of a very gruesome death.
2) After several weeks the Novichok was still incredibly pure. No derogation from UV, Oxygen or Temperature / Pressure fluctuation. The Handle had been snowed on again and rained on dozens of times. People with gloves and bare hands had grasped the handle, yet the Novichok remained uncontaminated.
3) It doesn’t take two people to close and lock a door.
4) The advice from the OPCW is that symptoms from Nerve Agent Poisoning via the skin will develop within 20 – 30 minutes. The Skripals dropped simultaneously after one of them last touched the door handle 2 and a half hours earlier. (albeit of different sexes, ages, health condition, weight, metabolisms and different doses received.
5) The Duck Feeding children were handed bread by Skripal 15 minutes after he had been in contact with the door handle. The police have denied responsibility that their safety falls within the police remit to keep the public safe so they did nothing for 2 weeks. One of the boys is reported to have eaten his piece of bread.
6) The Skripals were so contaminated 2 hours later that the furniture in Zizzis had to be destroyed.
7) The Russians were prevented from testing the Novichok to determine if it was one of theirs.
8) The Staff at the Mill and Zizzis who took payment and handled glasses, crockery, cutlery and furniture used by the Skripals were not thought to be at risk, neither were the other customers who used the same doors as them and those that came into contact with surfaces that must have been contaminated.
9) The first responders were not sent for decontamination despite what the Chief Constable said, a police officer at the scene handled Skripals wallet without gloves, another one who handled the victims didn’t even have a wash that night after his shift despite the pair having soiled, wet themselves and vomited. Those two officers assisted putting the victims into the ambulance with no protective clothing.
10) Spraying a Nerve Agent and forming an aerosol would surely kill the people coating the door handle as well as the people that touched it.
The evidence is the door handle was not involved other than it formed a later part of the Hoax Narrative because the original one was pants.
Presumably the “manual” referred to “smearing” nerve agent in gel form on said door handle, as this was the narrative for months. But all references to smearing seem to have been dropped in favour of “spraying” due to the find of the fake perfume bottle and it’s preposterous adapter. Funny how we haven’t heard any more about the “manual” … Guess that doesn’t fit the new narrative either!
The cretinous Gavin wrote the manual on his laptop when he stayed up all night typing up the evidence.
But silly young Gavin forgot to use Russian let alone a cyrillic keyboard. His teacher told him to try harder next time. It was written in an old school exercise book with Eton College crossed out and replaced by “gru rushen Ursasins Manuel” in clumsy laboured handwriting.
Nonsense, it was written by Adrian Mole, Aged 13¾.
Yes. And the replacement of the roof of Skripal’s house is a show to impress the public, similar to the show of Zizzi decontamination for many months. There was nothing to decontaminate in Zizzi – see the points listed by Peter.
“2) After several weeks the Novichok was still incredibly pure. No derogation from UV, Oxygen or Temperature / Pressure fluctuation. The Handle had been snowed on again and rained on dozens of times. People with gloves and bare hands had grasped the handle, yet the Novichok remained uncontaminated.”
Wasn’t the “purity” of the novichok a few weeks after the incident from when they tested the Skripals blood, not the door handle? Still ludicrous anyway!
“3) It doesn’t take two people to close and lock a door.”
As said before by many people, this can be explained away by Sergei shutting the door and then holding hands with Yulia. It was reported that novichok was found on opposite hands (ie: Sergei’s left hand, Yulia’s right – or the other way around) and that makes sense to me. But if it’s spread that easily you’d have to ask why there are no dead ducks….
I Keep going back Image-Picsx3 Post Event?
Considering what happened at near bench,area is
spotless?
Just a thought.
With two people collapsed at the bench, the initial thought might have been drug poisoning.
Possibly even a fentanyl or carfentanil incident.
Is it conceivable that the Army’s most senior nurse would have let her daughter get in close?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6610945/Girl-16-person-rush-help-Skripals-nerve-agent-poisoning.html#comments
I thought a mother’s first instinct would be making sure her child was safe.
Out of harms way, rather than part of the action.
Apparently not so.
I am not in the military, I am not a nurse, so I don’t know.
Yes Duncan! This does not figure? I ex military and I would
definitely tell my kids…Run-Get Safe Place-Dial 999-Hide!
The nurse if she let her daughter manhandle Yulia to the ground she must have known it was safe for her and her daughter to do so.
And then nominate her for an award.
Life saver of the year. The manager of the CCTV system got a life time achievement award at the same do.
I think they actively convinced her to take part as they wanted to create some positive Salisbury spirit. They could not have Sergeant Bailey as he was poisoned in the wrong place, so they tried to get her. She did not want to take the award so she got her daughter to promote first aid and helping people instead of walking on by. The “first suspected” heart attack (two people?) is a hint. It is all very nice and cuddly (and deserves applause).
The BBC actually quotes the nurse as saying that she could detect no sign of nerve agent on the skin of the Skripals, so she certainly looked. And she sure knew how to. Their hands would have been the obvious spots. The BBC filmed the burns on Charles Rowley’s hands.
They must have ingested or inhaled the stuff.
If I saw two people collapsed on a bench I suppose I would also assume they must have suffered heart attacks
That seems to contradict what the BBC’s Daniel Sandford said he was told – that there was contamination on Yulia’s left hand, as well as on Sergei’s right hand. He presented that as evidence supporting the door handle theory when it was announced.
The amount of any nerve agent on the hands would have been too small to be visible, but it should have caused a noticable rash if it was enough to critically injure them. A rash is one of the symptons of organophosphate poisoning on the skin. I haven’t seen any pictures of Charles Rowley’s hands. Has anyone any links to those?
ITV showed Charley’s hands – they made a point of it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFaGuqHb7f4
That looks more like bruising on the back of his hands (at 43 sec in the video), maybe from tubes attached in the hospital?
Well, that is after a couple of weeks of healing.
You don’t put tubes on the back of hands. You put tubes where the blood runs.
“You don’t put tubes on the back of hands.”
What nonsense, of course you do. I’ve been on a saline drip / IV twice, and both times on the back of hands, like this:
https://www.reference.com/health/hospitals-use-saline-drip-iv-4dfb72bab4fa32ad
You hands looked scarred like Charlie’s after this?
Strange how just a few weeks ago BBC was pushing story
regarding compulsory First Aid Training for School Children.
Paving the way for Army Medic and Hero Daughter………….
First Aid Training, Lesson 1 – how to treat a patient with Novichok poisoning. (1) Tell the patient a Russian joke. (2) Do not put the patient in an air ambulance – he/she might end up in the Bermuda Triangle.
Without CCTV, we can’t be sure the daughter was even there.
The girl’s role might have been minimal, something like “Take a look, Mom!”
My hypothesis as to why the story of the nurse and her daughter has been made public now is that TPTB want to help promote exotic conspiracy theories. The government does not like the debunking of the official narrative, such a thorough debunking as that by Rob, so they want to discredit the debunking by providing fodder for exotic conspiracy ideas.
https://www.sott.net/article/405465-The-case-of-the-contaminated-attic-Did-Sergei-Skripal-accidentally-poison-himself
They certainly take decontaminating the attic very seriously
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6618761/Army-experts-dismantle-poisoned-spy-Sergei-Skripals-home-amid-fears-contaminated-novichok.html
John Helmer’s theory (and he might have Russian input) sounds implausible – at least when you assume it was Sergei Skripal or Yulia involved in chemistry.
But there is a glaring whole in all the newspaper reports – what what Yulia’s brothers occupation. Was he trained for a GRU career like his father and was his career interrupted by his father’s arrest. What did he do in England (or try to do) why did he return to Russia like his sister? Was he a chemist and did they move to Salisbury because of him? Did they go to the attic where his stuff was looking for documents?
And was all this propaganda piled on when they were incommunicado in hospital by people (who thought they would die) seeing a great opportunity for propaganda?
I email chatted with John Helmer,
Regarding the Skripal home, I am still pondering.
Throughout the 10 month saga, I have tried to discipline myself in that:
1) Ignore what the official narrators say.
2) Watch what they actually do.
Wiltshire Council claimed they were replacing the roof and ultimately have the home returned to Sergei.
I wondered why, as the likelihood of either or both Skripals returning to the house seems highly improbable, and maybe even impossible if Sergei is dead.
If the house contained some other evidence, or information that HMG wanted to either find, or destroy, or even ensure that the item was not in the house or garden, then why not simply destroy the building, remove the bits, and put them in the same official landfill as the police cars, benches etc.?
In fact, only the table at Zizzi’s seems to have been destroyed, as that was claimed to have been incinerated.
Sadly, the same fate occurred to Dawn Sturgess. (and the Skripal pets?)
So my ponder continues.
“Why describe the roof removal? Why not just do it, and then later state that was part of the building destruction?”
The timbers were not contaminated, but we are being told they were.
We are being told something we did not need to know.
Possibly in order for us NOT to inquire into some other aspect that HMG does not want us to inquire into.
I think chemicals were being stolen from Porton Down, stored in Skripal’s loft and then sold on. This may have been an MI6 operation. It wasn’t only Novichok, it was something radioactive as well.
This Daily Mail article mentions radioactive material. It could be a mistake but, if so, why has it not been corrected? The article has been up for 10 days and nobody has disputed it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6584645/Military-biohazard-suits-remove-windows-home-ex-spy-Sergei-Skripal-deep-clean.html
READ THE COMMENTS – THEY’RE FASCINATING – NOBODY BELIEVES A WORD
Does anyone at the Daily Mail read the comments? If so, you’d think they’d have corrected the “radioactive” bit. Perhaps the DM isn’t as stupid as people think. Perhaps the house was being used to store radioactive material as well as Novichok.
Of course Skripal can return to the house if it was an accident. Nobody tried to kill him.
Information about Alexander is strangely scarce. He was married to the daughter of another GRU colonel Gennady Grishchenko, Natalia. Originally they lived in UK, in a expensive apartment, latter Natalia left Alexander because he was beating her while drunk. What is strange is that Natalia paid him 200 000$ from the sale of the house. If true this means that Alexander and Natalia were living in a house for at least 400 000$. But Natalia kept good relations with her ex family, kept contact with Yulia. For at least 3-4 years Alexander was living together Sergei in Salisbury, They were always together. And from what I found Alexander was living in UK from at least 2010. But he never worked anything? He was traveling to Russia, but not clear for what purpose? Then when he collapsed and later died in the train to Moscow, by liver failure, but at the time he was not drinking. Anything about Alexander is mysterious. I have the suspicion that he was too involved somehow with the “Novichok business”, maybe kept bottles of Novichok in his attics room. Later Yulia may have found and opened one of the bottles, contaminating the house and the room.
10 months later.
There seems to be flurry of Skripal articles from the media.
The Telegraph non- article article, the young heroine with the famous mum at the bench, DSB back at work, the roof timbers being removed.
OPCW updating their database.
Salisbury wanting to forget, but the media keep splashing it out there. (It can’t all be Brexit deflection.)
Was there any news about Dawn’s inquest?
Dawn’s Inquest has been delayed until after April when a Pre Inquest Review is planned.
I think the Coroner needs to be informed of certain facts regarding Novichok so I will provide a file for him and include your discovery (Duncan) it clearly casts doubt on the veracity of HMGs statements.
The file will set out to show that the evidence of HMG, the police, Porton Down and PHE are unreliable.
Peter, thanks and good luck.
I received my redacted response from WPD Professional Standards.
A lot of fluff, and detail of no value related to the boys and the duck feed and possible harm.
Summary,
“PHE look after public safety – Terror Team were doing the policing”
Not us guv.
Pathetic
Hi Peter, thanks for posting a link to the Pre Inquest Review guidance earlier.
Do we need to provide information to “interested persons” who would be able to attend ?
I ask as in Section 18 there is this :-
18. A PIR hearing must ordinarily be held in public: Rule 11(3). The coroner may direct that the public (but not Interested Persons) be excluded from a PIR if the coroner ‘considers it would be in the interests of justice or national security to do so’: Rule 11(5)
Final part of Section 23
Summarise decisions in writing and circulate to Interested Persons
I’m not prejudging what the coroner may or may not allow, but there seems to be plenty of scope for keeping information out of the public domain.
It is entirely up to the Coroner (and the Law what he admits as evidence into the Inquest.
However I can provide him with any evidence that I see fit if I suspect that an Injustice may occur if the Coroner is given false, tainted or deliberately misleading evidence by the witnesses.
That is my fear, so I am going to provide the Coroner with some Facts that challenge the Official Narrative.
The Coroner has a duty to satisfy himself and ensure the Jury is given Truthful evidence on which to base their Conclusion / Verdict.
The government now has two choices.
1) Allow the Inquest to go ahead with a Jury and accept that Facts will be presented that challenges the Official Narrative.
Or
2) Subsume the Inquest into Public Inquiry and expect the Coroner to rubber stamp a knowingly false Verdict (if he has evidence that the Public Inquiry Conclusion is or might be false).
The Law now requires Coroner’s to confirm the findings of a Public Inquiry even if they are in possession of evidence that provides proof that the Public Inquiry got it wrong.
Thanks Peter.
Totally agree that the coroner should refer this case to a jury.
But what I was pondering was….is it worth us providing info to an “Interested Person” before the coroner makes the agenda, as that “interested person” cannot be excluded and would therefore hear the full evidence.
I’ve no idea who qualifies as an “interested person” but presumably close relatives.
As an aside, deafening silence from the MSM on this.
Super…..copy to the coroners head organisation….head of judiciary….any one else..? Mayor….MP….euro MP if one by then….local paper….opportunity to swamp the media…..
The Insidious Initiative has failed.
They failed to achieve their major objectives;
1) Turn Public Opinion Against Russia
2) Discredit Jeremy Corbyn and keep Labour out of Power until they have a Leader who is Pliable to the wishes of the US
3) Disrupt the Nord Stream 2 European Pipeline Project
2015 Objectives
file:///C:/Users/lanca/Documents/sanctions-and-the-russian-federation.pdf
Advice to HMG on how to respond to the Skripal Poisonings
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2018/12/13/sergei-skripal-affair-ii-response-110318/sergei-skripal-affair-ii-response-110318.pdf
What II did achieve, they;
1) Alerted the public to the UK effort to destabilise the governments of every European Country
2) Hardened Germany’s stance against the bullying tactics of the US who wish to block Nord Stream 2
3) Revealed the cheap Propaganda Scares that they use against Russia and Corbyn deploying techniques that they ascribe as uniquely Russian behaviour.
4) Confirmed that II members employed by the UK taxpayer to work in the MoD, FCO, Embassies and other Offices of State are committing very serious crimes in this country and overseas eg Malfeasance in Public Office and Offences that Breach various countries Security Laws.
5) Weakened further the Confidence the public have in Civil Servants, Politicians, the Security Services, Police, Media and the Justice System.
II have helped enlighten the public to the Cancer that is spreading from Britain through Europe and beyond via II Cluster Cells.
We have been informed in the clearest possible way how far the Cancer has spread and the harm that it intending to do.
However there is an effective treatment, cut it out and burn it. It is up to us if we want to do that.
And other countries need to react too. They had no problem expelling Russian Diplomats on the Lies of May and II but now they have proof that Britain has placed dozens of Cluster Members in Countries throughout Europe whose purpose is to harm their Democracies. What have they done about that? What are they going to do about? Turn a blind eye, hope it goes away? That hasn’t worked so far and look at the result; a Disintegrating Europe, Increased US Control and Bullying, Riots, increased lawlessness and vocalised dissatisfaction.
Macron and Merkel have lost control of their countries it looks like the people are going to have too take charge.
“The Insidious Initiative … ”
Hah yes, I like that, but I might like the Iniquitous Initiative even better.
Politicising national security only serves to weaponise it, as anyone with a modicum of moral and ethical integrity would know.
The alliteration overwhelmed their individual and collective judgement, in their choice of (ill-chosen) name. Probably.
Initiative Inquisition……no one forgets the S…..because they want to put us on the rack…
Yes! Doing best Igniting Troubles in Ireland….
@Peter
As far as I know, German MSM and TV stations didn’t even mention, let alone critisize II.
Out of curiosity, does anyone know if the Tory government went ahead and approved the additional £48M investment in a new chemical weapons defense centre and the vaccination of thousands of British soldiers against anthrax that was tabled by Gavin WIlliamson last March under cover of the Skripal episode and the fear of a chemical weapons being planned in Syria?
https://www.malaymail.com/news/world/2018/03/15/uk-says-to-invest-48m-in-chemical-weapons-defence-after-spy-poisoning/1599433
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2004/may/06/science.research
Porton Down: apart from the Nazis, Britain has the dubious distinction of having carried out more chemical testing on its own citizens than any other country in Europe.
• Between the 40-50’s they tested Sarin and other nerve and biological agents on servicemen.
• Between the 50-60’s they regularly advertised for civilian volunteers to act as paid guinea pigs under the pretext of running a Government program to find a “cure for the common cold”, food and accommodation included.
• Between 1969-1975 they tested biological agents in Lyme Bay, Dorset and the London Underground.
It took the government until 2008 to admit guilt, issue an apology, to some of the relatives, and pay out compensation.
There were more that those you mention. They have an appalling reputation. Rob Evans’s book is a real eyeopener. Nor must we forget the countless innocent animals who have suffered indescribably and died there, and continue to do so – all in the name of war.
Meanwhile people like this are paying for it:
https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/which-war-torn-city-in-a-third-world-country-was-this-man-starving-to-death-in/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/21/skripal-poisoning-suspects-european-sanctions-list
Petrov and Boshirov are on a EU sanctions list.
“British police and intelligence, who traced the pair’s movements around Salisbury in minute detail,…..”
Minute detail is exactly what is lacking in the case against P&B.
And UKG still use their alleged pseudonyms and not the Bellinbrat alleged true names. How do they explain that?
You are wrong, Miheila.
Now Mishkin and Chepiga are officially named :
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32019D0086&from=en
But they are still not clean with the date and place of birth.
Strange, as they have all their visa applications with fingerprints and all the other data.
They are incredibly quiet about those visas. Because they were sponsored? By whom?
I am not wrong, Leane.
The MSM are wrong. You check the reports in the Guardian, Huffington Post, Reuters, and many more, and in other languages too. They all use the names Petrov & Boshirov, and don’t mention the Bellingbrat names. (I’ve yet to find one that differs in this respect)
Here are just a random few:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia/eu-sanctions-skripal-suspects-russia-calls-move-groundless-idUKKCN1PF18I
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/salisbury-poisoning-suspects-sanctions-alexander-petrov-ruslan-boshirov-russia-skripal-novichok-a8738851.html
https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-has-negative-reaction-to-latest-eu-sanctions-alexander-petrov-ruslan-boshirov-sergei-skripal/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/21/skripal-poisoning-suspects-european-sanctions-list
“Also named were two suspected Russian military intelligence officers, who have been identified as Ruslan Boshirov and Alexander Petrov…”
“Russian government spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told a news conference that the two Russian men — identified as Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov — are ‘suspected without any basis, there has been no proof so far.’ ”
etc.
PS RT seems to be the only one that’s got it right. (I don’t include them as MSM!)
“Alexander Petrov and Ruslan Boshirov (named in the sanctions ruling as Russian intelligence agents Alexander Mishkin and Anatoliy Chepiga) were subjected to a European asset freeze and a travel ban, along with Igor Kostyukov, the head of Russia’s main intelligence directorate (the GRU), and his deputy, Vladimir Alekseyev”.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-01-21/skripal-story-just-got-weirder-first-responder-revealed-chief-army-nurse
I was going through old screenshots I took and found something interesting.
There was an eyewitness called Jane Crofton. She tweeted on 5th March (in relation to the activity at the bench) :-
“I thought they seemed to be fighting”
If that was true it puts a different complexion on things. A struggle to kidnap/drug/taser the Skripals?
I haven’t looked if the tweet is still there, the handle was @OnCroft
Patrick M
The tweet’s still there but it has an image that is revealed in the comments to relate to an incident in Las Vegas:
https://twitter.com/OnCroft/status/970632128236085248
@eleanor I’m not sure whether she is describing the photo (which is erroneous) or what she actually saw.
Given it was put up less than 24 hours later, before it broke big time, and she seems to live in Salisbury, it is a curiosity at least.
Maybe she used the photo for illustrative reasons. The incident made enough impression on her to feel the need to tweet, even with a fake pic.
Patrick M.
I can see the logic of this report but the picture is misleading.
A rumble at the bench would happen if Skripals approached
by stranger/s and threatened-attacked.
The only other reason for this not to happen is if Skripals knew
who ever approached them or felt safe due to whoever being in
position of authority-uniformed.
The CCTV would solve this!
https://fabians.org.uk/building-resilience/?
I partly agree with this but there’s also plenty of unsupported assertions. The most damaging contributions to trust in our institutions are not the people questioning the Skripal narrative!
They are, for example, the Iraq dossier and Jack Straw saying you’d have to be a conspiracy theorist ….. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/28/what-did-jack-straw-know-about-the-uks-role-in-torture-and-rendition
The establishment can orchestrate its own demolition of trust without outside help.
And what about some clear examples of these alleged bots so we can see them for ourselves?
Integrity Initiative have taken down their website:
https://www.integrityinitiative.net/
Before hearing about Integrity Initiative, I felt the Russia hysteria might mean the UK security services had lost the plot totally. Farming disinformation out to dodgy semi-private setups does go a little way to explaining the apparent incompetence.
How many times I have seen ‘We must strengthen our cyber security capability because of Russia’ when a) I haven’t seen any credible proof that Russia is uniquely a problem and b) ‘we must strengthen our cyber security capability because of numerous threats from commercial organisations, governments and political groups, and criminals’ would make so much more sense.
No-one denies that attempts to steal data, influence us, deceive us and make money from us are all over the internet these days. We don’t really need to single out one country to make the case for working on defending ourselves.
So this is where “the state” got the idea from:
COINTELPRO (COunter INTELligence PROgram)
The FBI has used covert operations against domestic political groups since its inception; however, covert operations under the official COINTELPRO label took place between 1956 and 1971. COINTELPRO tactics are still used to this day, and have been alleged to include discrediting targets through psychological warfare; smearing individuals and groups using forged documents and by planting false reports in the media; harassment; wrongful imprisonment; and illegal violence, including assassination. The FBI’s stated motivation was “protecting national security, preventing violence, and maintaining the existing social and political order.
Figured it out.
It was the Skripals who did it. The Novichok was at their home which is why there is such an extensive ongoing clean up, to the point of dismantling and replacing structural parts of the house.
The Skripals spread the Novichok around – a quasi-terror attack? – and ended up contaminating themselves.
So why?
Enter Pablo Miller, Skripal’s British Intelligence handler and late of the government D Notice. Why the D Notice? Because of his affiliation with the Institute for Statecraft and their ongoing anti-Russia campaign through the Integrity Initiative, financed, in part by the FCO, NATO and the Atlantic Council.
If you read have read anything about the Integrity Initiative, their plans are to sew discord throughout Western countries, specifically the UK and the US to foment anti-Russian sentiment.
I’m betting the Skripals either had a stockpile of low grade Novichok in their house – remember, the government liaison for Porton Down is also listed as a member of the Institute for Statecraft – or they received it the day before the poisonings from two anti-Putin, Russian “dissidents” that visited Salisbury on two consecutive days. These are the guys that breezed through customs with fake passports and bottles of Novichok “perfume”. (this might also explain why they were in a cheap hotel, partying with hookers and smoking weed. A bit unusual for official GRU operatives).
I’m going to bet this was a semi-rogue British operation directed by the Institute for Starcraft. This Institute is under the auspices of the Foreign Office – wasn’t Boris Johnson the Foreign Secretary at the time? Boris was very quick to pronounce Russian malfeasance.
Also going to bet the operation got out of hand which required the British Military to come in and clean the whole mess up.
Skripal was a double agent – rumoured not to be retired and quite possibly still active.
Pablo Miller was MI6 – rumoured not to be retired and quite possibly still active.
There is quite obviously a cover up over this event, little makes sense, the media barely report on it and when they do, timelines and story details keep evolving. That Luke Harding of the Guardian has done exhaustive reporting should make one suspicious. Harding is rumoured to be fed stories by the Intelligence Community [the Trump / Russia nonsense, a British – American joint intelligence Op] and now the Skripal Affair.
We’ll see, although we probably won’t.
Then there’s still the disappeared red bag conundrum. Dawn Sturgess’ Nina Ricci perfume?
“Then there’s still the red bag conundrum.”
Like the Fox, the hen, and the corn seed riddle, the red bag puzzle has a solution. Whoever it belonged to its intended use was most probably for the Skripals to take home the ‘shopping’.
Oh Dear! One Third of Little Gavin’s Airfix Air Force cant fly.
Aunty Theresa wont give him money for paint-glue.
“Kremlin accused of laying false trail linking Sergei Skripal to ex-MI6 officer behind Trump dossier”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/20/kremlin-accused-laying-false-trail-linking-sergei-skripal-ex/
Some of us believe it’s not a false trail.
The article actually claims the LinkedIn page does not exist – I wanted to post a comment with a link to the archived copy but (no surprise) no comments allowed on the article.
They must be getting really desperate if they feel the need to publish such obvious lies and as for Robert Mendick (chief reporter) – a new low point in his career as a ‘journalist’ (read ‘lickspittle/lackey’).
The Telegraph used to be worth reading… but no longer.
They claim the Linkedin Page was fake.
What is definitively not fake is Booman Tribune drawing the connection and mentioning Skripal in January 2017. The guy running Booman Tribune is an American progressive so out of reach for MI6 but “highly likely” not working for Russia
https://twitter.com/booman23
And yes, the guys at Orbis do have Linkedin Pages or is this fake, too
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/chris-burrows-66106a90
Sorry, anidea, I see that you gave the precise link in another post.
Also beginning of January 2017 Forbes got pretty close
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2017/01/13/the-trump-dossier-is-false-news-and-heres-why/#593971de6867
“The PDF file of the 30-page typewritten report alleges that high Kremlin officials colluded with Trump, offered him multi-billion dollar bribes, and accumulated compromising evidence of Trump’s sexual escapades in Russia. That the dossier comes from former British intelligence officers appears, at first glance, to give it weight especially with Orbis’ claim of a “global network.” The U.S. intelligence community purportedly has examined the allegations but have not confirmed any of them. We can wait till hell freezes over. The material is not verifiable.”
More from above Forbes article
“As someone who has worked for more than a decade with the microfilm collection of Soviet documents in the Hoover Institution Archives, I can say that the dossier itself was compiled by a Russian, whose command of English is far from perfect and who follows the KGB (now FSB) practice of writing intelligence reports, in particular the practice of capitalizing all names for easy reference. The report includes Putin’s inner circle – Peskov, Ivanov, Sechin, Lavrov. The anonymous author claims to have “trusted compatriots” who knew the roles that each Kremlin insider, including Putin himself, played in the Trump election saga and were prepared to tell him.”
So did Yulia help her father with the report and was that the reason she was targeted. Did Yulia have a backchannel in Moscow as insurance?
Thank you anidea, I share the same view/question. There can be little doubt that Orbis is a deep state front and a mighty annoying impediment to Russia or the USA improving relations.
Where Sergei might have an old network of contacts, only face to face exchanges could be reliable so he would need someone in the position of his daughter to make the occasional visit or chat over coffee back home to extract his needed info to contribute to Orbis.
There is another trail though linking Pablo Miller to Berezovsky and Litvinenko.
When Litvinenko was murdered Vyacheslav Zharko got cold feet and told the FSB about his contacts with MI6
https://www.rt.com/news/interview-with-vyacheslav-zharko-2007-07-07/
Zharko was introduced to Litvinenko by Berezovsky. And Zharko identified Pablo Miller as the British recruiter Litvinenko introduced him to.
https://sputniknews.com/russia/2007081571629068/
So Pablo Miller is connected to the Berezovsky network including the Russian/Chechen mafia and two assassinations using the same script – a weapon of mass destruction pointing back to Russia, a scare, and in one case a cooperative, in the other case an uncooperative victim.
The two victims of the same script have another thing in common, they are reported to have worked with Spain on the Russian mafia.
And via the Berezovsky network Pablo Miller is connected to the murder of Glushkov, which the Russians keep inquiring about but Britain has become extremly quiet.
Except that there was not connection to Skripal, same as there is no connection of Pablo Miller to Orbis.
anidea, may I ask for a link to the precise tweet from Booman Tribune, or for the text ? Google doesn’t help me. Thanks in advance.
Methinks he doth protest too much.
What is this Robert Mendick article all about?
It rambles on, trying to show that something which is now not available, might have been significant.
Why would the people who wanted to harm Skripal lay a trail anyway?
Trails, even the ones which now do not exist only add visibility to what is a clandestine operation, or should be.
The Telegraph has tried to show that something that was hidden, should remain hidden, because it did not exist.
This is the Daily Telegraph reporting something they are not supposed to report.
ROFL
So there was a trail leading to Orbis and Steele.
It is behind a paywall. I cannot enjoy all of it.
Just sign up for an account at the Telegraph and you get a couple of free articles each week.
Telegraph article without a paywall
https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20190121/281513637340687
It is funny.
They are saying the Linkedin Profile of Pablo Miller (whom they do not name) was posted a year before the Skripal affair (ie March 2017) and is fake including his connection to Orbis.
They make it sound as if Pablo Miller is still working for MI6.
The point they are trying to make is that there is no connection between the Steele dossier and MI6. And that Russia tried to draw this connection by the fake Linkedin account.
It is disgustingly easy to fake a Linkedin account (or any social media account). Actually the connection between Pablo Miller, Orbis, Christopher Steele, the Dossier and Skripal was drawn here in January 2017 including a link to Pablo Miller’s Linkedin Profile
http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2017/1/12/52642/4357
I assume the British Government and MI6 are under extreme pressure from the Americans, to come up with this wild theory.
As for this conspiracy to work Christopher Steele had to come up with his dossier. So did he work for the Russians?
But in January 2017 someone knew Skripal had written the dossier and knew the connection to Pablo Miller, Mi6 and Orbis.
So when the dossier was discredited who decided to blame Skripal and withdraw him? And why was Yulia included?
And were Skripals saved because he went to the police about his concerns of being followed?
I suppose Britain cannot refuse access to Skripal to the Americans?
Some people in the US are suspicious
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-steele-dossier-fits-the-kremlin-playbook-1517175564
“There is a third possibility, namely that the dossier was part of a Russian espionage disinformation plot targeting both parties and America’s political process. This is what seems most likely to me, having spent much of my 30-year government career, including with the CIA, observing Soviet and then Russian intelligence operations. If there is one thing I have learned, it’s that Vladimir Putin continues in the Soviet tradition of using disinformation and espionage as foreign-policy tools.
There are three reasons the Kremlin would have detected Mr. Steele’s information gathering and seen an opportunity to intervene. First, Mr. Steele did not travel to Russia to acquire his information and instead relied on intermediaries. That is a weak link, since Russia’s internal police service, the FSB, devotes significant technical and human resources to blanket surveillance of Western private citizens and government officials, with a particular focus on uncovering their Russian contacts.
Second, Mr. Steele was an especially likely target for such surveillance given that he had retired from MI-6, the British spy agency, after serving in Moscow. Russians are fond of saying that there is no such thing as a “former” intelligence officer. The FSB would have had its eye on him.
Third, the Kremlin successfully hacked into the Democratic National Committee. Emails there could have tipped it off that the Clinton campaign was collecting information on Mr. Trump’s dealings in Russia.
If the FSB did discover that Mr. Steele was poking around for information, it hardly could have resisted using the gravitas of a retired MI-6 agent to plant false information.
“
It is a mess. But one with Skripals highly likely ending up as the scapegoats.
oh. From above link January 2018
“Special counsel Robert Mueller should be able to lift the veil on whether the Steele dossier was, as I suspect, a tool of Russia’s espionage. Mr. Steele has reportedly revealed details about his sources to Mr. Mueller, who has also been conducting interviews to determine which parts of the dossier are true and which are false.”
So did Christopher Steele claim Yulia as a source?
And did MI6 try to recruit Yulia and did Yulia say yes to be able to live in Russia and still visit her father but as an insurance informed Russian secret services?
Thank you anidea, but the ‘hacking’ tale of the DNC emails is thoroughly debunked. The documents that were leaked were downloaded of their network to a thumb drive. The file transfer times demonstrate clearly a download to a local memory device. That is more than likely a disgruntled or even right minded staffer with access. It could have been the Awan family spy ring, Seth Rich or any number of others. But local it was! not international transfer.
It is worse, Clinton et al, by commissioning the Steele dossier and promoting it after the election, enabled Russia to potentially blackmail Trump. The dossier is unverifiable by MI6 and CIA. Russia may be in a position to verify some of the stuff true or not.
Did the high IQ geniuses not realize that?
They did not care, as long as they could assure that Trump would not be able to come to an agreement with Russia.
So what happened at the Mill’s Pub?
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2730851/mill-pub-in-salisbury-wont-reopen-until-spring-2019/
and
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/clean-up-work-underway-in-salisbury-in-next-phase-of-recovery
“The nine sites identified are: The Maltings, Zizzi, the Ashley Wood compound, the Mill pub, two areas of Bourne Hill, Salisbury ambulance station, Amesbury ambulance station, the home of the police officer who became unwell following the incident, and the Skripal’s home. The Mill pub and Skripal’s home remain part of the ongoing police investigation.”
And where the highest quantity was found / spilt, Charlie’s gaff, everyone is ok.
It went in the drains.
Have you seen how much oil can spread on water, the amount that Charlie spilt on his hands (the oily stuff) and washed it down the sink, contaminating the whole block of flats plumbing and the entire Amesbury sewage system and the water treatment works.
Its a fuss, there’s no denying it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2H418M3V6M
It spreads to one molecule thick for hundreds of miles, it gets everywhere, in your crevices, you can’t get it out
Amesbury needs to be dug up if people are going to be safe
Haha…LOL…Check Your Crevices. Chocked on my meds!!
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2782928/exclusive-teenage-girl-describes-moment-she-found-collapsed-skripals/
The most senior nurse in the Army just happened to be there. She had been in Sierra Leone for Ebola.
And G-WLTS flew from Minety to Hullavington/Buckley Barracks where the 84th Medical Supply Squadron is based – who were in Sierra Leone for Ebola.
Quite a coincidence.
Patrick
I don’t think the aircraft went to Hullavington, it went close and tootled about a bit over the Flying Monk Brewery (a contributor to WAA), they came from Distilary Farm (a contributor to WAA) and did a fly past of 2 more contributors on the way to Salisbury (at a leisurely pace).
Its function was a contingency aspect. Chief pilot of Heli Charter UK Ltd, flying the thing.
Looks to me that they contribute to the air ambulance because they might need it in the case of a heart attack (they seems to live in farms far from hospitals).
Would they also take the precaution to store pharmaceuticals as they cannot be sure NHS does it?
@peter Like navigation waypoints! Or is G-WLTS a flying metal detector?
Or…could it be a lazy mistake or breadcrumbs or an in-joke and that wasn’t its route at all.
Surely Russian intelligence could make the WAA money trail connection too.
Patrick M
Delivering atropine and maybe oxime? It is pretty generic treatment for organophosphate poisoning it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pralidoxime#Mechanism_of_action
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/05/health/treating-patients-poisoned-with-novichok/index.html
Wiltshire Air Ambulance (WAA) gets anywhere in Wiltshire in 11 minutes
https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/about-us
WAA got the call at 4:19pm, the aircraft arrived at 4:53 in Salisbury.
They went the wrong way.
picking up stuff, people searching for stuff, everyone out on Sunday?
Really? The route taking off from the Devizes base
https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/map?icao=406CBC&date=2018-03-04
It is a triangle. We know what happened in Salisbury, what are the other two corners?
Somewhere Off Bermuda!
The NHS is on Integrity Initiative’s hit list so you may want to read this:
Aneurin Bevan (Nye Bevan) Welsh Labour MP for Ebbw Vale in South Wales for 31 years, the son of a coal miner, he was Minister for Health from 1945 to 1951. By July 1948, he had guided the National Health Service Act safely through Parliament, the resolution being carried by 337 votes to 178. The Tories were the only party to vote against it. The NHS came into operation from 5th July 1948 to provide medical care free at the point-of-need to all Britons regardless of wealth.
Bevan resigned when the Clement Attlee government decided to transfer funds from the National Insurance Fund to pay for REARMAMENT.
OLIVER LETWIN AND THE ADAM SMITH INSTITUTE 1980s
https://keepournhspublicgmcr.com/the-adam-smith-institute-explains-how-ccgs-can-be-used-to-privatise-the-nhs/
Under the Thatcher government, Oliver Letwin worked closely with the Adam Smith Institute to write The Health of Nations:
“That plan was designed in the mid-1980s by the team of Oliver Letwin and John Redwood, at the time the Director of Rothschild’s International Privatisation Unit. The Adam Smith Institute (ASI) was commissioned in 1988 to write the plan up for the public, though, oddly, this set of documents seems to have been largely overlooked by academics who have studied changes to the NHS in recent years.”
“The main report, “The Health of Nations” setting out the NHS privatisation plan concludes with its vision of the new system. We are now almost there, having already reached the penultimate stage which is to generate the final transition to the 21st Century NHS.
We could meet the health needs of everyone without the need for the government itself to provide health services through the NHS, simply by requiring that all individuals have medical insurance cover for a range of services that are deemed to be the acceptable minimum standard of health care. of course, those who wished to have a superior standard of service could take out a more extensive policy”.
In the late 1970s one of the first things the Thatcher government did was to abolish MRSI testing (it was routinely done on staff and patients) and outsource cleaning services on the pretext of saving money.
THE HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE ACT 2012
https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/2015/oct/02/nhs-one-way-road-privatisation
Passed by Nick Clegg and David Cameron, this Act removes the responsibility of the government to provide medical care free at the point-of-need.
THE ADAM SMITH INSTITUTE AND THE FUNDING OF SYRIAN TERRORISTS
https://www.activistpost.com/2017/12/uk-govt-exposed-for-funding-terrorist-councils-police-and-white-helmets.html
“The Conflict, Stability and Security Fund (CSSF) provides development and security support to countries which are at risk of conflict or instability.
In reality, the CSSF is a slush fund that is used as an ever-ready pool of resources to be dumped into conflict zones or areas that are to be turned into conflict zones by Western destabilization tactics.
The CSSF’s own website states that it has been allocated 1.163 billion British pounds for 2017-2018 alone by the British government. “
Watch the video of the prisoner held in East Aleppo and contrast it with the media coverage at the time calling it the “fall of Aleppo”. When Lizzie Phelan went in with RT there were dead bodies of men, women, children and babies shot in the head as the terrorists fled. It was not reported by the MSM.
OLIVER LETWIN CONSERVATIVE MP for SHAFTESBURY
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/30/oliver-letwin-a-career-in-gaffes
The “Integrity” Initiative has a well balanced political agenda, destroy the NHS, destroy Corbyn and go to war with Russia (destroy the world).
And the UK tax payer is paying for it along with the US taxpayer, Facebook and a few others..
Democracy, don’t you just love it?
With help from your outstanding work (and that of many others – though yours gets an acknowledgement), in case anyone is interested I wrote this longish piece, ‘The Gaslighting Initiative’: https://only9sixty.blogspot.com/
Interesting article, James Bruce.
A good reminder of all the suspicious death of people related to MI6 and Porton Down.
I have no doubt that, as you say, „Britain’s cloak and dagger merchants“ have no qualms about killing anyone who stands in the way of their interests.
Thanks for your reply, Liane Theuer. By the way, in my comment where I posted the link, I must confess I’d managed to get Peter Beswick confused with Rob Slane (owing to a misreading of a Tweet some time ago). So anyway, I hope to put that right, Deo Volente.
Please forgive me Peter Beswick – I’d got it into my head that you were the writer of this blog, owing to the way someone wrote a Tweet about your F.O.I. letter to Public Health England (which I read with interest, and their rather smug reply). When I said there was an acknowledgement, it was in fact to ‘The Blogmire’.
Before Dawn died the residents of her hostel were being decamped.
That didn’t happen in Charlie’s block of flats.
Charlie had been carrying around the “perfume” in his pocket for a couple of days before they went to Amesbury.
It’s as if the poisoning was meant to happen in Salisbury.
No Novichok found at Dawn’s home but a police radio phone was
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16335696.amesbury-nerve-agent-john-baker-house-residents-set-for-evacuation/?ref=ar
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2629985/appeal-to-help-rehomed-residents-after-amesbury-incident/
Such a collection of toiletries was where Charles Rowley got the perfume bottle in the first place?
Great Stuff Peter! Keep Up Good Work. Bit Shocked about
NHS. Didn’t know about dirty tricks involved at that extent.
Sorry! Anonymous-1 Also!! My mistake,credit to both.
Meds kicking In?
This is George Lawrence the pilot, who abandoned his paramedic at the scene.
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/15617842.wiltshire-air-ambulance-keeps-flying-thanks-to-teamwork/#gallery1
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm-4kMQX4AEyM19.jpg
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/resources/images/7485883/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen
Referring to the discussion between Eleanor and Paul regarding the cats. I think you all know my thoughts on this, but I can see your argument, Eleanor. However, there is more circumstantial evidence suggesting that pets were removed prior to the afternoon of 4th March. Partly this is in connection of what we know about the second cat, Masyanya, the one brought from Russia, which has already been discussed at length on here.
The authorities only became aware of a second cat when informed by the Russian embassy, and the local vet was also unaware of that cat, but Viktoria was not.
Furthermore, the response from the alleged DEFRA vet was highly suspicious and unprofessional. No qualified vet would euthanase a perfectly fit (but distressed) cat, nor would they explain their justification in a such a way. Would a DEFRA vet have taken the cat (and allegedly) dead guine pigs to Portin Down? There was danger present in the house, no ‘Novichok’, no nerve-agent residues, and they knew it. None of the many officials who entered that house or loitered around the door handle suffered ill-effects. It’s all utter nonsense!
Lastly, the name of that DEFRA vet, has never been disclosed. Why not? Because s/he never existed in the first place. II, or whover was pulling the strings, had to think something up to account for the pets, and that’s the best they could do. Totally unbelievable.
Therefore logic (and Occam) says that there were no pets present when the police fentered the house.
Another point. If Sergei was planning to flee, he would have ensured that his beloved pets were taken awy to safety before that fateful afternoon – and this is what he did, possibly with the help of Ross and Mo. Yes, Eleanor, Mo the plumber could well have picked up pets on 3rd March.
“No qualified vet would euthanase a perfectly fit (but distressed) cat”
Oh, I don’t know about that, Miheila, based on my experience with a VetsNow practice I would say that you are in error with that statement.
Please tell us more. What you said is trivialising the profession, unless you put it into context and explain the circumstances.
From what little I have to go on, whoever you speak of has no right to practice as a vet. Moreover, any ‘vet’ who admits to killing an animal on the sole grounds of it being distressed, as the alleged DEFRA vet claimed, has no right to be a vet. Distress on its own is not a clinical condition that warrants the ending of an animal’s life.
RCVS Code of Practice:
1.1 Veterinary surgeons must make animal health and welfare their first consideration when attending to animals.
Euthanasia
8.2 …No veterinary surgeon is obliged to kill a healthy animal unless required to do so under statutory powers as part of their conditions of employment. Veterinary surgeons do, however, have the privilege of being able to relieve an animal’s suffering in this way in appropriate cases.
Distress would never be deemed sufficiently appropriate, for it can easily be treated.
Nor did the statement allegedly made by that alleged DEFRA vet use the usual professional wording that one would expect. It caused an upraor at the time, and letters to the RSCPA, etc. It was unconvincing, poorly and inadequately written – more likely by someone at a desk with a political agenda than by a genuine vet. It was an insult to the profession. …But fitted in well with the sorry saga of lies.
@ Miheila
I’m not going to vent my spleen about this particular vet organisation on a public forum such as this – but, if you provide an e-mail address or somewhere elsewhere I can submit my views, then I’ll be pleased to do so.
Suffice to say that on returning a cat that I had consented to foster to this vet practice I was forced to sign a euthanasia order because they would not accept the cat back except on that basis.
Your faith in human nature far exceeds that of my own.
And, you’ve got me going now.
I had no intent to trivialise the profession, but, you seem to be remarkably naive in regard to human nature.
Lawyers often work for criminals.
Doctors have been utilised by the military (particularly in America) to supervise torture.
Psychologists have been utilised (again in America) to devise methods of torture which impose the most stress on those being tortured.
Intelligence services often engage in often murderous and certainly morally questionable activities.
All the above are human beings.
Laws are only effective at controlling human behaviour if the examples of behaviour are known and accounted for, otherwise they are toothless.
Your point ?
Alison McCourt’s bravery kept secret, Bailey’s false bravery heralded.
Why?
We don’t know Bailey’s bravery was false. I assume Bailey got poisoned at the wrong spot.
In the roof space of 47 Christie Miller Road Anidea?
The simple explanation of course would that Bailey got poisoned in Skripal’s house.
Which led to the crazed door knob theory.
There is of course this case from 2002.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1957411.stm
“A statement attributed to the “command headquarters of the Chechen mujahideen” and carried by the Kavkaz Centre news agency said that the fatal letter had been delivered by a messenger known to Khattab.
It adds that the messenger is now with the Russians.
“
At last something we can agree on
If Bailey wasn’t poisoned at the bench or the house, then where, when and how?
If we accept that the poison could take effect in the same time frame on both Skripals then it might very well have been in the house.
But that assumes the poison was non contagious, they had washed it off their hands feeding the ducks, and the question is what Bailey handled the other police officers did not. It means that Skripals opened the door to the assassins or brought the stuff in themselves. I think this may have been the case as the door handle theory evolved when it became clear that Skripals had survived.
The other option – more likely taking into account that Skripals were incapacitated at the same time – it happened near the bench. In that case Bailey was a hero and interrupted the assassins, was filmed on CCTV and the police know what happened, but keep mum because of “national security”.
The simplest explanation considering the reported movements of all the people of course would be
– Skripals feeding ducks at Avon Playground to indicate where the spy letterbox is
– Sergeant Bailey tasked to put the Novichok in the spy letterbox
– Skripals collecting the stuff from the spy letterbox and collapsing on the bench
– Sergeant Bailey tasked to plant the stuff in Skripals home
Was Avon Playground decontaminated as part of the clean up of the bench area?
In the field at rear of his own house. Hiding an Item/s removed
from roof space 47CMR…..
Do we think Alison McCourt is the blonde women in the Snap fitness Market Walk pic?
Pictures of Alison here: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/coincidence-chief-nurse-of-the-british-army-was-the-first-person-to-arrive-at-the-novichoked-skripal.html#more
no.
She might be Dawn Sturgess extremely made up and Charles Rowley. But the image is a photo of CCTV and blown.
If Alison McCourt was the female in the Snap Fitness cctv video then it could not have been her that treated the female at the bench.
The evidence says the female collapsed at the bench was one and the same as the female caught on the Snap Fitness cctv
There is no other evidence available to the public that suggests anything other than that. That is a pure and simple fact.
Drip by drip the scene at the bench during the first few minutes of the drama is unfolding, but much is being kept hidden.
Why has it been clouded in mystery? Why has it taken nearly a year to find out it was a schoolgirl and her mum (who just happened to be a colonel and Chief Nurse of the army) who administered the immediate first aid?
Freya Church says no one else was at the bench when she was present (4:03pm), she said the people on the bench were “100%” and “definitely” the same couple who were caught on the Snap Fitness CCTV recording; we were not even allowed to see a clear copy of that recording although Freya did see a clear recording on the Gym’s CCTV monitor.
This is what we were told in the beginning;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5470455/How-poisoned-spy-plot-unfolded-Salisbury.html
Apparently Jamie Paine is credited in some reports as calling the emergency services, in others someone else made the 4:15pm call (it is not uncommon for more than one call to be made to the emergency services regarding the same incident).
Whist the call was in progress the first police officers turn up (at 4:15), then running paramedics at 4:17 then the parametric ambulance car at 4:18.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/14/we-did-our-best-police-who-rushed-to-skripal-scene-tell-of-shock-and-pride
We have witnesses that saw the distressed couple, whoever they were, sat on the bench and then Yulia assisted to the ground and put in the recovery position. Jamie Paine wiped foaming mucus from the male’s mouth with a tissue and got some on himself.
There are reports that 2 police officers were present before the 4:15pm call, plus a security guard. We were told DS Bailey was the first police officer on the scene and then we were told he didn’t appear until after the stricken pair had been taken by ambulances (not the air ambulance, that was called a 4:19 but took over half an hour to make a 12 minute journey and when it got there a paramedic got out but never returned to the aircraft).
We are not sure if the doctor at the scene is the same person as the nurse or whether they are different people who just happened to be passing. One of them apparently worked on the couple for half an hour so it begs the question what the paramedics were doing.
The biggest question going begging is however is, even with the recent “additions” to the story we still have not been given a definitive account of what happened at the bench. It was after all, all recorded on CCTV by at least two High Definition cameras.
Why are the facts of what happened still being hidden from the public, why have a plethora of false accounts been put out, including by the police? Why have we not been told the truth?
Please read “female” for “Yulia”
This might be the reason we have not been told the truth……..
“But one witness who had seen the pair hours before they collapsed insisted Yulia was not blonde but had reddish brown hair.”
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5742937/cops-hunt-blonde-woman-seen-on-cctv-20-mins-before-ex-russian-spy-spy-sergei-skripal-and-daughter-yulia-were-poisoned/
“Olly Field, 30, saw Mr Skripal and his daughter on the bench after leaving a nearby gym around the time police were called at 4.15pm on Sunday.
“There was some blonde bird laying on an old man’s shoulder doing this hand thing in the air,” he added.
”I just thought they were strung-out on heroin. There’s all sorts of homeless running around so I didn’t think too much of it.””
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sergei-skripal-poisoning-latest-russian-spy-daughter-substance-police-investigation-home-secretary-a8243746.html
Yulia at a Moscow Airport the day before with reddish brown hair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-ys-DV-wUI
I would call Yulia’s airport color “blonde” but a lot depends on lighting
You can have a look at the variations people call “blonde” at google images, it goes from close to white to light brown.
“I would call Yulia’s airport color “blonde””
I suppose the 2nd pic here she is even blonder?
https://stv.tv/news/international/1412842-russian-airport-cctv-shows-yulia-skripal-boarding-plane-days-before-poisoni/
Camera Color Calibration Explained
https://photographylife.com/how-to-color-calibrate-camerashttps://photographylife.com/how-to-color-calibrate-cameras
Look at the colour of other people’s hair in the airport video. Look at their clothes, bags the signage and environment then tell me where in the footage something else that should appear blonde actually appears reddish brown.
Yulia had reddish brown hair that day, that is what the evidence says, the person in the Snap Fitness video had white hair and she was collapsed at the bench, that is what the evidence says.
If you have a single shred of evidence that it was Yulia at the bench then reveal it because so far there has been no independent evidence available to the public that says the female at the bench was someone other than the Snap Fitness cctv female.
And I think even you would agree that was not Yulia
Yulia said so herself.
You need to assume a lot of nurses coinspiring to claim she was not in the hospital. The more conspirators you assume in your story the less likely it gets.
That snap fitness photo – has it even got a time stamp?
Yulia also said she “did not wish to avail herself” – does anyone believe those were her words?
Yulia also spoke on the phone to Viktoria, without difficulty, only days after a supposed tracheotomy tube was removed from her throat – does anyone believe that?
The nurses etc. you speak of all said a nerve agent had been used in Salisbury – does anyone believe that?
Peter is right, there is no evidence that Yulia was ‘on the bench’ but there is lots of evidence that she wasn’t.
In the absence of proof, I think we can safely assume for now that those nurses and/or doctors at the scene were all a players in a meticulously planned act/exercise. They were no ordinary medical people who just happened to be around at the time. The same would apply to those treating the victims at SDH. They were most likely military personnel been specifically brought from elsewhere, not necessarily Porton Down or the DCBRNC. I wouldn’t be surprised if Alison McCourt had been one of them too – that’s if there really were two poisoned victims there for as long as was claimed. I’m even beginning to doubt that now.
Lighting affects color
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/49030-lighting-affects-color
Witness are famously unreliable. There are probably not two persons who see color the same way as most people have some form of color blindness.
If you cannot find more than a photo and witnesses describing colors your theory has a very week foundation.
It does not make sense otherwise. Who would replace the perfect victim?
There are two eye witnesses (whose evidence id public) that say the female on the bench could not possibly be Yulia.
There is no evidence from anyone (in the public domain) that describes the any identifying feature of the female to suggest that is was Yulia on the bench.
2 witnesses vs 0 witnesses
I will believe thank you, unless some evidence emerges that refutes the witness evidence.
The police have not refuted Freya’s and Ollie’s evidence. Doesn’t that tell you something?
They don’t say that. Freya Churchs says the woman on the bench was the woman on the Snap Fitness Video which she – I assume – sold to journalists.
She admits that she walked on as she assumed they were on drugs.
Ollie Fields who also walked on says she was a “blonde bird”.
Blonde is a very subjective description, if you wish you can even google for “red blonde” and you will find results.
There is simply no reason to assume it was not Yulia. Not even Russia claims that, so are they in on the conspiracy?
That Russia has not done so is a very interesting observation. Similarly, Russia knows that Yulia’s phone calls to Viktoria did not originate in the UK and has also chosen not to mention this either.
WHY Russia has chosen to ‘ignore’ these things is certainly confusing and has been the cause of discussion elsewhere.
It would seem that Russia knows full-well what really happened but is going along with the story – which is to the benefit of the party that REALLY got the Skripals.
Treasonous May also knows this and knows that Russia can pull the rug from under her at any time. If she ever she goes too far, Russia is willing to stop her (as in producing P&B to deny the ridiculous story of their weekend in Salisbury).
This is exactly the same tactic Russia has used in MH17 – they have known since day one that the Ukraine shot down the plane but have been very sparing in the evidence they have provided. It allows Russia to control the narrative – they do not give Treasonous or JIT any choice but to continue the current narrative whilst Russia holds onto the option of destroying the narrative whenever it wishes to do so.
The police still refuse to challenge the publicly given evidence from Ollie Field and Freya Church that says the female on the bench was not Yulia.
Why is that?
Remember the police were quite happy for the public to believe the false evidence that Bailey was the first police officer on the scene until it became abundantly clear that his story was decidedly fishy so they changed their story.
They can’t do that with Freya and Ollie’s evidence so that albatross remains around their necks
How close did these witnesses go? Which image of Yulia had they seen to conclude this was not Yulia?
Methinks thou art being a bit condescending, anidea. If you look at the other folks in the pic that Peter posted you will also see a blonde with light colour hair, so Yulia’s hair is certainly darker. There is also a brunette in the same image.
PS a hint – don’t lecture people who do a lot of investigation on the subtleties of white balance.
That is what I am saying. People’s idea of what is blonde are hugely different. It is from ash blonde, light brown to albino.
So which image of Yulia had the two witnesses seen to claim the woman of the bench was not Yulia or rather did they only say the woman they saw on the Snap Fitness CCTV looked like Yulia? And how much did journalists pay to take a photo from this Snap Fitness CCTV photo taken by a smartphone.
And how does this rhyme with Yulia having her hood up.
It assumes so much conspiracy to claim it was not Yulia on the bench and there is no rational motive that it is just fantasy.
PS another hint: respecting someone for his work does not mean that person has to be right.
Anidea, you argue on a statistical basis that the number of people supposed to be involved is just too many.
OK, want an example of something extremely unlikely? Try our existence – scientists have noted many times the extreme statistical unlikelyhood of our existence.
Further to this, you discount the possibility that a lot of the actors (in the sense of involved persons, not thespians) involved were/are either bound by orders or personal risk or official secrets.
Further, based on my life experience, you seem to be extremely naive – that not an insult, it’s an observation.
So your life experience is full of people conspiring and being able to keep quiet about it? When not even an army nurse can keep her name out of the news?
This here are the full local hero awards and their sponsors.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2782379/the-spire-fm-local-hero-awards-2019-winners/
and the special award given to “Salisbury spy poisoning emergency services”
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2784868/special-award-for-salisbury-spy-poisoning-emergency-services/
including the propaganda video on “Salisbury’s fighting spirit”
The number of atoms in the universe has 72 to 74 zeros after the first digit
The chance of any of us being here at all, chances as a proportion of one, has 30 odd thousand digits after the first digit to 1 you one if you consider the male side of the family and how many sperm are ejaculated during the act. That applies to only 30 generations.
Then add to that the chance of mum meeting dad )grans and grandads etc) (and mum and dad being born at all) and mum having the right egg up the shoot at the right time and you get into mind boggling territory.
The largest number that has ever been defined is denoted; by 3 arrow 3 arrow 3 arrow. Its big.
But the chances of us being here (odds to 1) are billions of times bigger than that. If each digit was one millimeter wide the length of the number would wrap around the size of the universe billions upon billions of times.
We are all Singularities. Lets make the most of it
anidea
I think you are a troll.
I base that on you assume all people who are photographed with red hair actually have blond hair but the camera / film / process is not calibrated properly.
You are trying to distract this blog by consistently, repeatedly and boringly repeating nonsense.
Red hair is red until proven otherwise (I know). Assuming the opposite (without evidence) produces the guff that you continually churn up
Actually, Peter, I’ve thought for a while now that he’s a spook.
I think what matters, what really really matters, is that what precise shade Yulia’s hair has been is of far less importance than it’s widely understood and accepted that the hair colour of FB Yulia, she of the longer darker hair, is not the hair colour of Moscow Airport and Reuters Yulia (a known colour in 2018, regardless of lighting).
These differences have been discussed here more than once (and by me, too!) and probably will be again. The effects of light and natural daylight are commented on, and how each shade should be described.
What doesn’t seem to ever get mentioned is that it’s not clear what witnesses have meant when claiming Yulia’s hair shade to have been – to some it’s reddish brown, to some it’s blonde but even here we can’t agree on what is red and what is blonde.
My stance fwiw is that 2018 Yulia has hair that is blonder and shorter in comparison to the earlier FB Yulia. In fact, it might be more helpful if Yulia’s hair colour in 2018 was called just that, to differentiate between this shade and the earlier colours she has used.
That makes sense.
I spent time with clients discussing colors on screens. I usually make an appointment and adjust the colors so they look good on their screen. Just hoping they won’t use another computer (well, I tell them that it depends on graphics card and screen but they never listen).
The lies start on the bench. It was certainly not Sergei and Yulia who were found there but whoever that couple was, they have been called ‘the Skripals’ ever since.
We know that we have been repeatedly lied to – anyone hoping to find the truth, must start with the facts and then go wherever the facts take them.
The AA was clearly never intended to be involved in the ‘bench incident’ its role was something else (it would take longer to get the patients onto the AA and then fly them to SDH, than it would take just to use a land ambulance). The fact that the president of WAA has resigned as a trustee and that HeliCharter is being closed down, tells us that whatever it was the AA was doing, HMG was not pleased!
But the lies start at the bench – it was not Sergei and Yulia.
Peter – As soon as I saw you referring to Yulia a red light flashed in my head. I was going to reply here: “I think you mean ‘Yulia’, not Yulia”! but you beat me to it. 🙂
By the way, wasn’t there someone called Ian (who wouldn’t give his surnmae) who also claimed to be a first responder – or was he just a witness? I seem to remember him being referred to somewhere as a male nurse. Anyway, we can be sure that the bench was pretty crowded before 4.15.
He featured in the Panorama programme, Miheila, and he’s a paramedic called Ian Parsons (he might be a WAA vehicle paramedic).
He is “Lead paramedic Ian Parsons”
Only important people make it to the bench.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2708065/emergency-services-hold-999-day-in-salisbury/
That’s the one, anidea, South Western Ambulance Service rather than WAA.
Thanks Eleanor. I’d heard the name long before that programme, but at the time his surname wasn’t given.
Accounts annoyingly vary, but among the first responders apart from Nick Bailey (allegedly at times) and Jamie Paine (?and his girlfriend whose name I forget) and sundry umbrella-holders (even though it wasn’t raining) were:
a) an off-duty military doctor and a nurse, or
b) an off-duty doctor and an off-duty nurse, or
c) a male nurse (on or off duty) and a doctor of some kind
d) a female ebola nurse and a doctor…
… etc.
At least we now know that a teenage girl was involved too, along with her mother, Chief Nurse of the British army – evidently the ‘ebola nurse’. But we still don’t know where the ‘doctor-and-nurse’ theme fits in. Was Abby McCourt thought to be the nurse, and her mother, the doctor? But what about that ‘male nurse’ and the ‘military doctor’ accompanied by a nurse (of some kind)? Was the male nurse, Ian Pearson, the chief paramedic? And what’s all this ‘off-duty’ stuff all about? All this suggests to me that there were two medics present, probably both military, and that Alison McCourt was accompanied by a doctor, mabe not at the bench but hovering nearby, as her son Cameron seemed to have been doing.
That bench was certainly a hive of activity before 4.15. On top of this there was probably a seething mass of random gawping onlookers with cameras. Attracted by the bustle, I’m surprised there wasn’t even a homeless busker there singing ‘Widdecombe Fair’ in the hope of any ‘spare change’.
Sorry, Parsons, not Pearson.
Now why would they have the top paramedic of the Region there?
Odd that he should get there so quickly. It almsot makes me think that it was all planned… but no! That’s impossible. Not the British way. Not cricket!
I think as Sergej Skripal was clearly apprehensive and felt followed (as reported by Ross Cassidy) he informed his police contacts. They were incredibly fast on the scene. It is possible that Alison McCourt was carrying a phone for emergencies.
There may be two reasons why they are not telling the truth
– because they are embarrassed that they let it happen
– because they know the perpetrators but it is politically inopportune to name them
This here is the police statement from June
http://news.met.police.uk/news/ongoing-investigation-into-incident-in-salisbury-on-4-march-309256
They must have a pretty good idea what happened.
If Alison McCourt was one of the players, and it seems very likely that she was, she would almost certainly be carrying a military-issue phone. They use a separate system than ordinary mobile phones – the same one (Tetra Airwave) as used by police, fire, ambulance, MI5, MI6, immigration, customs, etc. She would have been in constant contact with her superiors.
The police, or at least the higher echelons, knew that the incident was planned to happen and that it was a secret matter. Whenever MI5, MI6 or GCHQ are involved in incidents, the police are legally bound to obey any special instructions, and cannot act independently. Invoking the terms ‘national security’, ‘official secret’, and ‘royalty’ – which are seen as sacrosanct and not to be questioned, means that the police may need to act in ways that we would see as being against the law.
That would explain the schizophrenia of the decontamination with government people including nurses forced to wear protective gear while normal people went on with their life next to them – see Bailey on nurses versus his family.
GCHQ wanted the maximum propaganda effect when everybody else understood that the stuff was non contagious.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/12/salisbury-mp-convinced-residents-are-safe-from-nerve-agent
“A local woman said she believed there was a discrepancy between the advice that the public were given and what she was witnessing.
“To see people wearing tremendous protective clothing and then [PHE] saying to the rest of us: you’re fine, wash your clothes, use baby wipes is just extraordinary.”
She added: “It doesn’t make sense when I’m looking at a newspaper photograph of five men in space suits and we’re just walking around in ordinary clothes. There should at least be a hotline for people to ring.””
This guy here certainly did not toe the line
https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2018/03/16/duncan-selbies-friday-message-16-march-2018/
This here is the laboratory of PHE Porton – did they test the “Novichok”, too?
https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/rare-and-imported-pathogens-laboratory-ripl
And was the non-information due to their results not backing up the danger of the substance?
March 15, 2018
The U.K. is to invest £48 million ($67 million) in a new Chemical Weapons Defence Centre to maintain the country’s “cutting edge in chemical analysis and defence,” Defence Secretary Gavin Williamson said.
The new facility cannot produce weapons because the U.K. is a signatory to the Chemical Weapons Convention, but Dr Michelle Bentley, a Senior Lecturer in International Relations and Director of the Centre of International Public Policy at Royal Holloway, University of London told The Defense Post that the Convention allows signatories to develop defences against attack.
“The new centre will have access to all the chemical agents used in weapons – like sarin or the Novichok nerve agent used against Skipral – so scientists can develop defence mechanisms such as vaccines. Laboratories can effectively do what they like as long as they don’t weaponise the agent,” Bentley said. “Scientists are allowed to work with chemical agents, as long as it is for peaceful, commercial, or defensive purposes.”
Commenting on the timing of the speech, Bentley noted that it was “extremely coincidental” that the announcement was made today, saying the government may have wanted the facility to remain a military secret but publicising it could be a “show of military strength against Russia.”
“Perhaps the government thought they couldn’t justify spending £48 million on defence in a time of supposed austerity in the U.K. – especially as there wasn’t an obvious chemical weapons threat in this country before Skipral was poisoned,” she added.
https://thedefensepost.com/2018/03/15/new-uk-chemical-weapons-defence-centre-skripal-russia/
The new Chemical Weapons Defence Centre will it make easier for Porton Down to explain why they were able to diagnose Novichok so quickly. Because now they produce Novichok officially.
Unintentionally, Dr. Michelle Bentley delivers another motive of the UK to impose a false flag on the Skripals : justify spending £48 million on defence in a time of supposed austerity.
Killing two birds with one stone. And there are more than two birds :
Steele Dossier
RussiaGate
SDH heavily indebted
Toxic Dagger
Hamish earning a lot of money
Wargame training
Playground for Integrity Initiative
Promoting the Magnitsky Act
Pressure on EU to maintain sanctions
Liane Theuer, just to dot the i’s…
Did the £48 million get transferred to Defense or this a promise which can only be realized in the passing of the next Tory budget?
Again, if the £48 million special budget was transferred, do you know where the funds would most probably come from (i.e. from which existing Department budget would these funds be transferred) or would they temporarily be additional deficit spending appropriations?
Thanks for your feedback.
I believe this £48 million special budget and the White Helmet dossier were key factors in the phrasing of the official narrative immediately following the Skripal attack; certainly so far as Integrity Initiative would have been concerned (i.e. II Chris Donnelly’s “radically different way to do foreign affairs and defense” described in his “The Challenge of Brexit to the UK: Case study – The Foreign and Commonwealth Office” is described as nothing less than getting public money transferred away from the health care, education and social programs into the budgets of the military–industrial-security network)
The McCaughts seem to be pretty good at getting awards.
“Abigail’s mother, who won a medal for her role in tackling the ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone”
“Prison officers Other category winners: Public Protection – Hugh McCourt, HMYOI Feltham”
And now the daughter Abigail gets one for saying ‘look mummy their are sick people over there” which mummy already knew were going to be there and while all these awards are being awarded, poor old Nick isnt going to get his for some unknown reason now?
The son must be a dreadful disappointment
It sounds like a family mafia operation. This family cearly wield a hidden influence! It begs the question as what other perks they receive – as yet undisclosed. Their son, Cameron, is still only 14, so maybe he can expect his award in a year or so. Perhaps he’ll discover a GRU manual flung in a local bin, with a personal dedication to P&B by Putin himself.
It seems more than odd that in all the police media coverage at the time it was not deemed to be important enough to mention that the ‘dying Skripals’ were attended to by the Chief Nurse of the British Army and her teenage daughter.
Well, the decontamination of their car seems to have been reported.
https://www.forces.net/news/military-removes-vehicle-larkhill-nerve-agent-investigation-continues
Compare and contrast the attention the Skripals got to this poor soul
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16303215.man-died-after-police-left-him-in-public-toilet-to-sober-up/
Also Compare and Contrast the support given to Hero Bailey and Charlie Rowley and then the Media attention given to Dawn Strugess’ death compared with this anonymous fellow who lived in the same house as Dawn
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16099466.man-23-dies-suddenly-in-city-centre-supported-housing/
Its a Tale of Two Cities with a twist, they are both Salisbury
John Baker House had quite a reputation
https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/15487958.Three_men_arrested_after_raid_at_John_Baker_House/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/11/ive-been-so-upset-novichok-death-shocks-salisburys-homeless
https://www.sott.net/article/244410-Weapons-Expert-Who-Worked-With-Dr-David-Kelly-Found-Dead
Weird there’s never been a coroner’s inquest for David Kelly?
Technically there was an inquest but it was never formally closed as required by law.
The result was that Kelly never had a Final Death Certificate Registered, the Death Certificate in existence was an Interim Cert to permit disposal of the body, it was completed before any evidence was heard by Hutton.
The Coroner refused to register Huttons findings. Only a Coroner or a Jury, if one sits, has the legal power to conclude on the Cause of Death.
Hutton had no legal powers to rule on the cause of death, he had no coronial experience nor medical qualification.
The convention, at the time was if the Coroner could find no objection to a Public Inqirey’s findings into a CoD then s/he would rubber stamp the findings onto the Death Certificate but the Coroner in Kelly’s case chose not to do that instead he abandoned the Inquest.
Today if a Public Inquiry finds someone committed suicide then a Coroner Must, by law, put that finding on the Death Certificate; even if the Coroner has proof from new evidence that the deceased was in fact murdered.
That is what British Law has become.
I understand that people are calling for, what I thought was an inquest, but must be a second inquest with witnesses, can they do that?
There will be a movie though. Out soon.
It was getting rather crowded at the bench.
Reading that MoA article about the army nurse (and with grateful thanks to Elena Evdokimova), I think the scenario they give is (dare I say it), highly likely to be the truth about the Skripal affair. It is an identical theory to my own, which has barely changed since April/May last year, other than the addition of the II’s so obvious involvement. Here it is in full, in the words of MoA:
Back in 2015 the Institute of Statecraft and its russophobic director Colonel Donnelly discussed how to increase sanctions on Russia. In 2016 the Steele dossier was created in an attempt to connect Trump to Russia. Steele’s collegue Pablo Miller and his spy Sergei Skripal were quite likely involved in creating the dossier. The dossier was disseminated with the help of Donelly’s Institute of Statecraft.
For some reason, Skripal probably threatened to spill the beans about the dossier after it became public, the Skripals had to be taken out. The highly scripted ‘Novichok’ incident in Salisbury was staged to remove Skripal and to smear Russia with an alleged murder attempt. Colonel McCourt, the trusted army nurse, was asked to help on the scene. After the Skripal incident, and with no evidence to show, Russia was blamed and massive sanctions followed. The Integrity Initiative, the propaganda arm of the Institute of Statecraft, analyses the media results of the Skripal affair and continues to stoke the anti-Russia campaign.
I’d qualify the above by saying the Sergei was VERY likely to have written, or at least, advised on the Trump dossier. At some point in the weeks before 4th March Sergei was becoming increasingly in fear for his life. The IfS certainly has a very strong interest, not only in monitoring the media coverage of the Skripal affair, but also, via II, influencing and manipulating that coverage.
That nurse, who had remained anonymous for so long, clinches it for me. She has even connived in deceiving Spire FM into awarding her daughter, Abigail, as a Local Hero Lifesaver! I wonder how Abigail herself feels about this.
The whole Salisbury hoax was staged – masterminded by MI56, IfS, II and the British army’s 77th Brigade and with the collusion of Porton Down, DCBRNC, PHE, the police, WAAS, SDH, MAFF, etc. The whole lot of them – each had their roles to play.
Besides all this, the Skripals were never on the bench. They were not poisoned. They’d prearranged their exit from this madness. Their pets were saved. Novichoks were never used. So who was on the bench? Who were the alleged hospital patients? Who conducted the attack? Where are the Skripals now? When are those responsible for these crimes against the state, democarcy and TRUTH going to be brought to justice?
Democracy Integrity Project sounds rather like Integrity Initiative. Are they connected?
https://www.conservapedia.com/Democracy_Integrity_Project
Interesting! It sounds very much like a US-based clone of the II. Typically American, they even stole half its name.
The fact that they both share a big interest in the Steele dossier speaks volumes.
https://dailycaller.com/2018/12/12/democracy-integrity-trump-fusion/
Both the II and DIP have directors linked to their respective Foreign affairs ministries. DIP is funded by George Soros, and others not identified.
In thewords of Thor Halvorssen, head of the Human Rights Foundation:
“Adam Kaufmann [a DIP director] personifies the polar opposite of transparency and integrity… The very idea that Adam Kaufmann is involved in any project that has the word ‘integrity’ means that the project is stillborn and has no credibility.”
Exactly the same could be said for II and its ethically dubious directors.
There seems to have been a lot of spamming, since I posted my comment, so I would appreciate folks looking a ways down and reading it.
I, too, think that the Skripal poisoning was a false flag.
The timing was very bad for Russia – two weeks before the presidential election and three months before the World Cup; the timing was the first thing that made me think it had been a false flag.
You said that on the night of the incident all comments were being erased on the Independent website. Was it absolutely extraordinary?
Comments had always been deleted from time to time, Milda, and it was happening with increasing frequency, as NuLabour Blairite Independent became more and more overtly neocon.
(Was there a buyout? First Independent joined the attempt to smear Telegraph’s article about the mischief of international bankers – no mention of Jewish people in it – as “anti-Semitic … no comments allowed (which would have been scathing by us all) for that one … and then a gushing article adulating George Soros … for which comments *were* allowed and deservedly exorcising.)
But we had NEVER had entire comments sections erased like that before. (See Thom Yorke’s album Eraser with Harrowdown Hill – re: Dr. David Kelly – the leadoff song.)
Telegraph stopped comments for a time – I was able to make another early this year and was then blocked. My friends referred me to Spectator, which is blocking me after my support of Brexit and questions raised about the too-Remain-convenient murder of pretty young Jo Cox – like Salisbury, it was the timing – why would any Leaver give Remain such an emotional outrage to exploit on the eve of the election? – who triggered Thomas Mair and how?
And Independent started blocking me because of my utter refutation of the Salisbury farce. At first, I couldn’t start my own comments but could Reply. Then that was blocked too.
Neocon Washington Post – which hasn’t blocked me, despite my hard-hitting attacks on neocons … to its intellectual and journalistic integrity credit … or maybe they just want to hear the opposition’s best arguments? – has the motto Democracy Dies in Darkness.
The lights of democracy are being snuffed out in once great Britain … the custodian of Equal Justice under the Rule of Law Magna Carta, after all … and it is saddening.
Putin once said the death of democracy in the West was saddening, and he was ridiculed for saying it, but I think he was sincere. The Russians looked to the West to welcome them in out of authoritarianism, but we have instead demonized/vilified, mocked/humiliated, and betrayed them for … the IMF?
My pseudonym – nom de guerre – on the (especially British) forums has been Black Arrow, my comments being my shafts of Truth to bring the evil down. I usually sign important comments.
I think Robert Louis Stevenson would have approved.
I have ancestors from the Shetlands. William Jack, King’s University Aberdeen maths dean, is one of my direct ancestors.
The first person to raise the alarm about the Skripals has received a bravery award. The 16 year old girl alerted her mother, who happens to be a qualified nurse.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2782928/exclusive-teenage-girl-describes-moment-she-found-collapsed-skripals/
But something is left out of the report on the Spire FM Local Hero Award – that her Mum was not just any old nurse, but a top nurse in the British army.
https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/01/coincidence-chief-nurse-of-the-british-army-was-the-first-person-to-arrive-at-the-novichoked-skripal.html
Another strange coincidence is that another medical professional was passing by at the same time:
“A doctor, who was shopping with her husband in the city centre on Sunday, told the BBC she stepped in to help Ms Skripal after she found her slumped on the bench.
She described her as “slumped in her seat, completely unconscious” and had lost control of her bodily functions.
Helped by a passing nurse, the hospital registrar got the 33-year-old onto the floor and into the recovery position – opening up her airway.”
http://web.archive.org/web/20180309174732/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43315636
The top army nurse and her daughter didn’t get mentioned at all in another article last month in the Guardian about the first responders. The doctor got all the credit:
“There was a member of the public, who turned out to be a doctor, helping her, maintaining her airway. I believe if that doctor hadn’t done that, she would have died.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/dec/14/we-did-our-best-police-who-rushed-to-skripal-scene-tell-of-shock-and-pride
Who is the nurse’s husband?
We’d need other proof than the comment on MoA’s blog, that the elusive Señor Miller is also living in Larkhill … intriguing possibility that it is.
Only just noticed from that article, pc Alex Collins is a police medic (although I can’t see that on his uniform). Another fortunate coincidence? I don’t know anything about police medics but quick search suggests that these are highly specialist roles, for use in very complex situations eg riots. Don’t know how common they are in the police force, or why required in Salisbury. The article certainly plays down any medical role he had. Maybe another card up sleeve ( see my earlier comment re the nurse)
BBC doctor and military nurse were probably the same person.
She lives in Aldershot like Sergeant Bailey.
Ahem no, DSNB lives or lived in Alderholt, not Aldershot.
Although I’m still not sure how many passing, non-emergency medics were first responders.
Right, they are different places.
But that places her about an hour’s ride from Salisbury?
If Alison McCourt was living in or near Keogh Barracks, that would be at least 50 miles / 90 km from Salisbury. That’d be quite some distance to go, to celebrate the son’s / Abigail’s brother’s birthday (and why Salisbury?).
The Spire FM article says Abigail lives in Larkhill, also more than 50 miles from Keogh Barracks. Larkhill, on the edge of Amesbury, is only 13 miles / 20 km from Salisbury.
(All info courtesy of my friend McGoogle)
In 2014 the family home was supposed to be in Aldershot
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882113/Is-selfless-mother-Inspiring-courage-British-Army-Colonel-left-young-children-Christmas-fight-ebola-Sierra-Leone.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6610945/Girl-16-person-rush-help-Skripals-nerve-agent-poisoning.html
“Abigail’s mother, who won a medal for her role in tackling the ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone, said: ‘As a qualified nurse, it was a fairly routine situation for me but my daughter was amazing.
‘Her prompt actions, spotting them in difficulty, and the way she assisted me to put Yulia Skripal in the recovery position had a significant impact on the outcome of the two victims.’
You wonder why they had to come up with this information now.
The prize is clearly a pretext.
That article also reckons that her husband Hugh is a prison officer.
Which seems to conflict with the comment on the MoA blog.
If you mean “Dig deep enough and you will find that Alison McCourt is married to Pablo Miller”, I think that was a joke.
Ah …
… :~/
I think this might be him – Hugh McCourt, HMYOI Feltham:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/535810/NOMS_AR_2015-16_FINAL_WEB__2_.pdf
Hoho Why Salisbury?… the Cathedral of course just like our trusty comrades from the east. Besides Salisbury is close to the mighty sacred meeting place of standing stones.
There is a 22-field hospital in Aldershot
https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/corps-regiments-and-units/army-medical-services/22-field-hospital/
She is the commanding officer
“A Field Hospital is a unit that, operating out of tents, can provide a NHS standard of healthcare anywhere in the world.”
Suspect you nailed this. iirc the initial reports concerned a military nurse, who declined to be identified, that provided first aid. Later reports claimed it was an off-duty doctor, also unidentified, that happened upon the scene and administered first aid and the nurse on the scene was dropped. The comments previously ascribed to the unknown doctor are not substantively different from what Alison McCourt, military nurse, is now saying.
I don’t doubt that a gag order was placed on Ms. McCourt shortly after the incident. TPTB wouldn’t have wanted her queried about her preliminary medical assessment of the two people (not different from the paramedics) and as a senior military nurse, they would have wanted to tamp down CT. Stepping out now suggests that HMG is satisfied enough that the case is wrapped up that Ms. McCourt was given the okay to highlight her daughter’s role. It’s a stretch for me to believe that HMG would allow itself to be dependent on a sixteen year old girl to promulgate a false story. Particularly as at this time, her story isn’t needed to advance their narrative and technically makes it worse instead of better as she and her mother weren’t affected.
As for speculation that Ms. McCourt was ‘on duty,’ she wouldn’t have brought her family along on an ultra-secret mission. One that had some risk to them as there was some sort of poison involved. That means that either the presence of Ms. McCourt’s family is false — for no purpose — or Ms. McCourt’s story is true and she wasn’t on an assignment.
I second this opinion.
Doesn’t this new revelation help TPTB counter increasingly vocal disbelievers who say “but if it was novichok, why didn’t the first responders get ill/die?” Cue Ebola nurse expert (card up sleeve in case needed). Sorted!
I dont know about Alison endangering her children, she may not have been told the full story, Just to be there in case we need you and be inconspicuous. What better way to be inconspicuous than being a family out for a birthday celebration.
On the other hand she may have known the full story which was that it was a complete hoax with everything being acted, in which case the children wouldn’t have been in any danger anyway.
She would bring her family along. But she need not have known about her “mission”. She might have been told any reason.
There is nothing secret about what she did. She did talk to journalists throwing a spike into the narrative.
But yes, the bench is getting very crowded.
– a military nurse
– people just walking on – like the fitness instructor
– two police officers, one a nurse
– someone attending to Sergei Skripal
– Sergeant Bailey
– the ambulance
If the female ‘doctor’ and the nurse (McCourt) are really the same person, then someone was not just keeping quiet about her identity – they were also lying.
PC Alex Collins could have believed McCourt was a doctor after someone else told himthat. Or he may have got that impression from the senior nurse, maybe her expertise or from her air of authority from being a Lieutenant Colonel.
The BBC, however, should have known whether there was also a doctor present at the scene. Days after the incident, the BBC spoke to the ‘doctor’, who was a hospital registrar (see the link I gave above) and was “Helped by a passing nurse”.
Now we’re being told that army nurse McCourt was assisted by her teenage daughter. Somebody must be lying about something.
The BBC gives more details in another report:
“Meanwhile, a doctor who was one of the first people on the scene has described how she found Ms Skripal slumped unconscious on a bench, vomiting and fitting. She had also lost control of her bodily functions.
The doctor, who asked not to be named, told the BBC she moved Ms Skripal into the recovery position and opened her airway, as others tended to her father.
She said she treated her for almost 30 minutes, saying there was no sign of any chemical agent on Ms Skripal’s face or body.
The doctor said she had been worried she would be affected by the nerve agent, but added that she “feels fine”.”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-43337962
According to
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6610945/Girl-16-person-rush-help-Skripals-nerve-agent-poisoning.html
Abigail was in company of her mother when she saw the Skripals on the bench. Clearly, the role of Abigail was overstated.
The night of the incident on Independent comments, I – BlackArrow – and the other (very skeptical)regulars could not BELIEVE it! Every HOUR *ALL* comments were being erased. Somebody was *really* scared.
Then you have Boris flat lying it was *Russian* novichok.
Remember the story being floated that Australia was going to back out of the World Cup over this? The ozzies know me as a friend. I circulated an e-mail urging that NATO expand to the Asia-Pacific to deter aggression there too … after the joint Russian and Chinese shore bombardment naval maneuvers off Estonia … if Asia can come to Europe to threaten, Europe can go to Asia to deter … and a month later NATO SecGen Jens Stoltenberg came out for expanding NATO to the Asia Pacific, where Australia feels very alone except for us Americans.
I sent an e-mail to senior members of the Australian government, pointing out that the Russians would *never* jeopardize the World Cup to get Skripal and that they had waited until the Sochi Winter Olympics were over to countermove after our neocons’ February 2014 Kiev coup. A day or so later, PM Malcolm Turnbull – good guy – and ForSec Julie Bishop came out and announced Australia would NOT be withdrawing from the Moscow World Cup … which put the kebosh to that British neocon ploy. Both of those brave souls are now out of those offices.
On the BBC video, you can see first responder Freya Church describing the Skripals’ non-novichok symptoms, and that day’s Daily Mail carried the same kind of reports from eyewitnesses.
The British government announced it knew the Russians were surveilling Skripal for 5 years, and with all the CCTV cameras in Britain, his residence would have been well-monitored … but no video of any perps daubing door handles.
My guess is that those 2 GRU officers were lured to Salisbury with the offer of a contact about the biochem wargames being held at Porton Down nearby, to give the Russian accusation credence.
The Salisbury false flag was obviously intended to get countries on-side against Russia (and Syria) in runup to the Douma false flag.
As Dr. David Kelly’s state terror murder demonstrated, Britain is right now a national security dictatorship.
Worse, it and its seditious Integrity Initiative is trying to prep *Norway* and Scandinavia to have its neocon good-for-the-economy war with Russia up here, so that Central and Western Europe and Britain don’t become the radioactive wasteland we will be. I just circulated an e-mail Rogue British Intelligence Subversion for War in Norway.
This is exactly the arrogant stupidity of the British ruling class: the manpower short Russians will go strategic nuclear from the get-go, they know who their arch-enemy is, and they will *glaze* everything south of Scotland.
You folks had best get Corbyn into power FAST. If we and the Russians do knock each other out, our occupiers will be the *Chinese*, and for what that will be like see the film “The Killing Fields.”
Meanwhile, the polar ice masses continue to disappear and Earth is destabilizing geophysically, let alone meteorologically. You could not fictionalize species/evolutionary strategic stupidity so colossal.
What an excellent summary. It saved me a lot of time when I included it in this piece.
https://johnplatinumgoss.wordpress.com/2019/01/19/skripals-the-big-uk-blunder/
Hello John
Fancy seeing you here!
CM having gone rather quiet on this topic, it’s good to see it being kept well alive elsewhere. Interesting observations of yours regarding Paul Whelan. Personally, I’m inclined to see the Skripal affair in a more prosaic light than that of a ‘false flag’, but you’re absolutely right to point out the government’s disastrous management of it. They couldn’t direct traffic.
Best wishes
M.R.
https://williambowles.info/2018/12/11/uk-governments-role-in-anti-corbyn-campaign-exposed-by-robert-stevens/
Integrity Initiative and Ben Bradshaw Labour MP Exeter
The UK “cluster” of II’s operation lists 108 individuals including leading Labour Blairite MP for Exeter Ben Bradshaw:
1984 reporter at the Exeter Express and Echo
1985 reporter at the Norwich Eastern Daily Press
1986 he joined the staff of BBC Radio Devon
1989 correspondent for BBC Radio in Berlin
1991 reporter with BBC Radio 4 The World At One
1997 he was selected to contest the marginal seat of Exeter at the 1997 general election after THE FIRST CHOICE CANDIDATE WAS DESELECTED BY THE LOCAL LABOUR PARTY ON INSTRUCTIONS FROM LABOUR PARTY HEADQUARTERS.
24th June 2006, he and his partner Neal Dalgleish, a BBC producer, registered a civil partnership.
May 2009 It was claimed that he exploited the MPs’ expenses system by claiming the entire interest bill on a property he shares with his partner in west London.
2011 Bradshaw voted for the NATO-led military intervention in Libya.
November 2016, Bradshaw opposed a motion in Parliament for the UK to withdraw support for the Saudi Arabian-led intervention in Yemen
December 2016 he said that it is “highly probable” that the result of the Brexit referendum was manipulated by Vladimir Putin.
Bradshaw was the subject of controversy while Minister for Health.
His responses to questioning on Radio 4 about the shortfall in NHS dentistry leading to patients unable to access NHS dentists and even resorting to treating themselves, was to claim that those needing urgent treatment should go to see their GP, which prompted the British Medical Association to observe that a General Practitioner was no substitute for a qualified dentist.
On the subject of the National Programme for IT, a scheme dogged by cost overruns, delays, and doubts over its benefit to patients, he commented: “Our use of computer technology in the NHS is becoming the envy of the world. It is saving lives, saving time and saving money. If you talk to health and IT experts anywhere in the world they point to Britain as example of computer technology being used successfully to improve health services to the public.
His plan to introduce private management of some NHS trusts was also heavily criticised. The BMA called it a step towards privatising the NHS. Dr.Jonathan Fielden observed that there was no evidence private management was better than public sector management, commenting “How many of us have seen our Trusts bring in the management consultants, paying through the nose, only to get a half baked solution and one that the real talent in the NHS could have delivered for less?”.
He was criticised for defending car parking fees at NHS hospitals at a time when Wales was removing parking fees. The BMA called such charges “a tax on the sick”.
He is a member of the Henry Jackson Society a neo-conservative British foreign policy think tank. It has been described as right-wing society that advocates an interventionist foreign-policy and capitalism.
I wonder why he joined Labour.
Oh! Wait! That was Bliar’s Thatcher legacy government, wasn’t it?
I understand now.
I’ve got loads on the NHS>Oliver Letwin>Adam Smith Institute>White Helmets>Al Nusra
Don’t forget the NHS is on the Integrity Institute hit list.
…and how can any of us forget this claim to fame??
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5203097/Officials-remove-Russia-diplomat-Commons-debate.html
CHRIS BRYANT
1993 joined BBC as editor of Radio Wales.
1994 appointed BBC Head of Broadcast (English Language)
1998 appointed BBC Head of European Affairs
2000 his selection for the very safe Labour seat of Rhondda in South Wales surprised many people given his background and someone who had been a Conservative as a student.
2009 claimed over £92,000 in expenses over the five years leading up to the 2009 scandal over MPs’ expenses. During that time he flipped his second-home expenses twice, claimed mortgage interest expenses that started at £7,800 per year before rising (after flipping) to £12,000 per year. He also claimed £6,400 in stamp duty and other fees on his most recent purchase, and £6,000 per year in service charges.
March 2018 called for RT to be taken off air in Britain.
He was ridiculed by the press in 2003 when he was discovered to have sought anonymous sexual encounters and posted a picture of himself posed wearing only underpants on a gay dating site, Gaydar, whilst an MP.
There seems to be a common theme
Sorry the reply should be from Anonymous-1
Shades of Owen (Oily) Smith – Party central office overrode the local’s choice (the wife of the previous, then deceased, incumbent) and parachuted in Oily, much to the dislike of the locals (recall the nickname – Oily). I know this because my brother lives near there and knows some fo the locals.
It’s not democracy, is it?
Worked for the BBC for 10 years as a radio and TV producer including BBC Radio 4’s Today and BBC Cymru Wales Dragon’s Eye
Worked for Pfizer pharmaceuticals for 5 years.
2005 became Head of Policy and Government Relations – paid £80,000 a year as a lobbyist for the company.
2008 joined Amgen pharmaceuticals.
2010 elected MP for Pontypridd.
2011 voted in favour of UN-backed air strikes in Libya.
July 2016 launched a Labour party leadership challenge.
24th September defeated 38.2% to 61.8%.
2017 appointed Shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland
23 March 2018 sacked for under-mining the Labour leadership
When he spoke with Wales Online he expressed his support for the private sector playing a supportive role in the NHS, (PFIs), but has since described such schemes as a failure.
Like Mrs May, he backs Trident nuclear weapons and nuclear energy.
He is very much disliked in Wales, unlike his father..
And you could probably include Kinnock the younger amongst the cockroaches.
Oddly enough, Kinnock the elder went to a grammar school very close to where I grew up – a more despicable windbag I cannot imagine.
How do Public Toilets figure in all this as a place where Type-Stuff mixed?
Fake Perfume sealed in Bacon Wrap.Was this just one part of Type-Stuff?
My understanding is Novihoax a two part mix…please correct if I wrong.
How would one part if found by Charlie-sealed be deadly?
I tuck 12 days to find in a Very Big Kitchen after event?
This Bacon Wrapped Perfume is over engineered by MI56.
No explanation regarding Police Talkie-Walkie Radio removed?
“How do Public Toilets figure ……. ?”
Simple question but complicated answer .. part 1
They may, of course, not figure, the claim may be untrue (that traces off Novichok were found in the public toilets). That “feature” was certainly reported but as to its veracity, because this is Salisbury, we simply do not know.
It could have been reported because it was true, if so we heard nothing about it from the authorities since, so why is that?
It could have been reported because it was another Red Herring, another Distraction, another part of the Confusion Tactics deployed in the Skripal affair to take attention away from what really happened.
It could have been intended to form part of the Hoax Narrative, in fact for a while it did, that the Russian Suspects went in those toilets to mix their deadly cocktail. However that part of the Narrative was dropped for a number of reasons.
The toilets in question are situated in Lush House Car Park which is joined to Queen Elizabeth Gardens. They are a short walk (0.2 mile – 4 mins) along a riverside footpath, from where the Russian pair were caught on CCTV on Fisherton Street bridge at 1:05pm (after the spraying of the door handle).
The Car Park and Toilets are overlooked by a Council CCTV Camera, with a clear uninterrupted view 25m away https://ibb.co/XJ7T5jf (Camera Top Right, Toilets Middle Left)
To be continued .. the deaths at Lush House Car Park Toilets and John Baker House
Part 2, sorry links only have to rush
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16303215.man-died-after-police-left-him-in-public-toilet-to-sober-up/
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16099466.man-23-dies-suddenly-in-city-centre-supported-housing/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/public-toilet-salisbury-may-been-13034187
NB neither Dawn or Charlie used the toilets and the “Traces” were found 6 months after the Skripal poisoning
Perhaps people who work at Porton Down are regularly leaving traces of Novichok around Salisbury because they don’t wash their hands before leaving work?
Go for a Pizza-Garlic Bread at Zizzi’s then a Pint at
Mill…..Cctv not working at any locations…..?
Because of its effect on muscles (stiffening things up a bit) perhaps they are providing novichok alternatives to Pfizers main product on the side.
There is this from July
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5969197/Skripal-Novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified.html
“Police have used facial recognition technology to identify two assassins sent to poison Sergei and Yulia Skripal with Novichok and are certain they fled back to Russia, it was revealed today.
The perpetrators are believed to be members of the GRU military intelligence service and were not known to MI6 until the Salisbury nerve agent attack, a senior security source has claimed.
Detectives have traced them from Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury – where they dumped the Novichok poison – to the UK airport they flew from, which is believed to be Heathrow.
Using facial recognition technology police and the secret services who pored over hours of CCTV footage have identified the two spies now wanted for the March 4 attack.
They also know they were travelling under ‘fresh identities’ back to Russia after cross-referencing their aliases with the commercial flight’s manifest.”
This from Boshirovs and Petrovs interview
Petrov: There should be many photographs (with us). Of course we took pictures.
Boshirov: We were sitting in the park, we were sitting in a cafe and drinking coffee. We were walking around and enjoying this English Gothic, this beauty.
Petrov: For some reason they’re not showing this. They’re only showing us at the train station.”
And there is of course the “fingertip search” of Queen Elizabeth Garden.
Did they find any ‘fingertips’ ?
A thorough analysis, the following detail from which is of more than a little interest:
“…there exists what has been described to me personally as “real clear footage” of Mr Skripal feeding ducks near the Avon Playground with some local boys at 13:45, with Yulia Skripal standing nearby carrying a red bag.”
Might there be any way of verifying that Yulia Skripal was indeed filmed carrying that red bag at the time (not someone else) and exactly what type of bag it was, i.e. handbag or shoulder bag?
“Might there be any way of verifying that ………… ”
Yes! Publish the CCTV footage
A statement of the obvious. Just as obviously the Met. are extremely unlikely to oblige. My question in any case was a veiled request to the author. It may appear trivial in the scheme of things, but determining who was in possession of what bag and when could go some way to establishing the vector of whatever afflicted the Skripals. Novichok via a door handle it clearly was not.
It’s a bit of a mess isn’t it?
Things beings exposed that they would prefer not to be, who is driving that?
II / IfS interest in leveraging Skripal to further their agenda.
The II network exposed. Putin and Corbyn their targets.
The unbelievable Hoax and ludicrous Cover Up falling apart piece by piece
May drowning in a whirlpool of deceit and skulduggery (from all sides)
Wiltshire AA and a UK network of covert AA’s Black Ops exposed as amateur wannabe James Bonds
The US given Carte Blanche to conduct illegal Chemical / Bio Weapons Research on British soil under the protection of Diplomatic Immunity.
Proof that every country that expelled Russian Diplomats knew full well that May was lying about the evidence against Russia when she made her Statements in the UK Parliament.
The Salisbury Incident planned to coincide with a CBRN war games
I am quite looking forward to the next episode.
Well I hope whoever is living in the MI5/6 safe house next to Ross and Mo feels safe… it is not their fault HMG is so incompetent.
So how do these facilities stand re OPCW, they probably go completely under the radar. They’re not classed as British soil but they aren’t on American soil. Obviously no one knows what they are up to. It would be quite easy to spirit something off the site under the cover of Operation Toxic Dagger. All those extra bods walking around, plus VIPs. Who would want to stop a VIP and search their vehicle or person(s). They could drive in with anything and drive out with anything.
The coroner’s office has confirmed to me by phone that the inquest on Dawn has been postponed. There will now be a “pre-inquest review” on 15th April
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/guidance-no-22-pre-inquest-review-hearings.pdf
The CCTV evidence will be interesting, there was a load of it from Salisbury the day before Dawn became ill.
There was CCTV evidence of the bin where Charlie allegedly retrieved the Novichok, and there will be evidence if the bin was seeded before he set out on his “Treasure Hunting”.
Lots of evidence for the Coronet to consider
That’s handy! Wonder what is going to happen on-around
this date?
Keep Knocking date back and Sheep will forget.
Theresa covering her fudging.
There’s still nothing, official-looking, that I can source to substantiate this. have you any links purporting to back-up the coroner’s postponement? Is it normal and usual to keep having inquests postponed and what would be the reasons?
Cheers
The gravity and enormity of Duncan’s discovery cannot be over emphasised;
[that the Iranians synthesised a family of Novichocks and published the method for producing them in 2016, that information was in the hands of the OPCW and every State Chemical Weapons lab in the world.]
It means the US, Germany and France et al, everyone that expelled Russian Diplomats knew Mrs May was lying.
They cannot now say Mrs May was too clever for them because they took her word on trust. That doesn’t come near the truth.
The truth is the US were are are the driving force for sanctions against Russia, it is the US that were pulling Mrs May’s strings and made her concoct such a bizarre Hoax defended by a Cover Up built with ludicrous lies.
The II / IfS is a US driven device under the guise of NATO.
These people have smashed Democracies around the world, devastated the Middle East, placed Europe in chaos and neglected the spiraling catastrophe that faces the US people back home.
They have been found out.
Now it’s a question of what we do about it.
Am just thinking about US activity at Porton Down. I believe they are allowed to carry out experiments on animals NOT ALLOWED in America, but what else ?
It’s not pretty.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/salisbury-nerve-agent-attack-reveals-70-million-pentagon-program-at-porton-down/5636361
To David S
The most important thing in this article is the last paragraph:
“The Pentagon-funded military facilities ARE NOT UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL OF THE HOST STATE as the US military and civilian personnel is working under DIPLOMATIC COVER. The local governments are prohibited from public disclosure of sensitive information about the foreign military program running on their own territory. WITHOUT BEING UNDER THE DIRECT CONTROL OF THE HOST STATE, these Pentagon bio-laboratories put the health of the local population at risk and must be closed.”
The secret US facilities at Porton Down have the same status as an embassy, treated as US territory on British soil. Anyone entering these facilities is treated as an Alien, registered in and out and accompanied at all times. Storming an embassy is considered an act of war. The UK was planning on storming the Ecuadorian embassy in London to get their hands on Julian Assange but thought twice about it.
Not being under direct control of Britain, Porton Down probably don’t know or don’t want to know what the US are doing in these facilities.
It’s also worth noting that Operation Toxic Dagger ran from 12th February to 4th March 2018, swiftly renamed Exercise Toxic Dagger after its name appeared on this site.
Dstl works with Marines on UK’s biggest annual chemical warfare exercise
40 Commando Royal Marines and The Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (Dstl) have staged the UK’s biggest annual exercise to prepare troops for Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear (CBRN) operations. Exercise TOXIC DAGGER is supported by Dstl, along with Public Health England (PHE) and The Atomic Weapons Establishment (AWE), and is the largest exercise of its kind in the country.
Specialists in CBRN from Dstl and AWE are able to create realistic exercise scenarios based on the latest threat information. Completing the training and exercising against these scenarios provides a challenging programme for the Royal Marines to demonstrate their proficiency in the methods to detect, assess and mitigate a CBRN threat.
The three-week programme included Company-level attacks and scenarios concerning CBRN vignettes, concluding with a full-scale exercise involving government and industry scientists and more than 300 military personnel.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/exercise-toxic-dagger-the-sharp-end-of-chemical-warfare
Hi Anonymous-1,
Quick question about this. In the interview he gave to Sky News back in March, the CEO of Porton Down, Gary Aitkenhead, when asked if the “Novichok” could have come from Porton Down, repeatedly stated that there was no way that it could have come from our four walls, and that it couldn’t have come from Porton Down.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R23AQAFvZ-4
I’ve been a bit intrigued by these statements ever since (especially as we’ve not heard from Mr A since).
Question in relation to your points: Is Gary Aitkenhead the CEO of the whole of Porton Down, or just the British facilities? In other words, when he said it couldn’t have come “from us”, “from our four walls”, “from Porton Down”, do these statements cover the US facilities there?
If the US facilities operate under Diplomatic Cover ie Diplomatic Immunity, Gary Aitkenhead would not have any control over what goes on in those facilities. Without saying it explicitly, what he meant was, he could vouch for what goes on in British facilities at Porton Down but not the US facilities at Porton Down.
The Bulgarian journalist is talking about the U.S. Defense Threat Reduction Agency. The Europe Branch is operated out of Ramstein, Germany and the quote a laboratory in England but no address.
Presumably it is connected or close to Porton Down.
The interesting part about the US Defense Threat Reduction Agency is that they cleaned up Ukrainian, Russian and Syrian chemical weapons sites – doing a great service to the people of Russia and Syria but obviously reaping all the know how of their chemical weapon programmes.
Russia seems to have stopped some but not all cooperation on this.
https://armscontrolcenter.org/fact-sheet-the-nunn-lugar-cooperative-threat-reduction-program/
“Some analysts have asserted that the Russian government’s reluctance to renew the umbrella agreement was brought about by the political embarrassment felt by many Russian officials about having to rely on a foreign power for domestic security needs. In addition, many analysts have cited the umbrella agreement’s liability provisions as a particular point of concern for Moscow, as these provisions essentially shielded all US government employees and contractors from legal liability for CTR-related incidents.
Another standing issue was a stated lack of need for American financing. Some reports state that Russia no longer needs to sacrifice national security secrecy in exchange for financial aid it doesn’t require.”
Would Britain agree to the US operating in the UK under these conditions?
Maybe for defense contracts.
It’s not just the UK, David, there are plenty of other countries where dubious activities are taking place.
There’s an old Welsh saying “Never sh!t on your own doorstep”, the Americans seem to be taking it to heart.
Peter, there is also a second part to this.
A well known toxicologist, known to the UK and more importantly, known to the OPCW, told me directly that France (the OPCW representatives) had written a report to the OPCW HQ informing their office about the “non uniqueness” of possible and potential Novichok sources.
The UK (according to my informed source) asked for this report to be suppressed, and suppressed it was.
Over the past 11 months we have noted that there has been very little said by the scientists.
Little said about how confirmation of the agent was done, how and why testing labs would need, and have access to reference materials, and more importantly what chemically was ACTUALLY FOUND in the samples, kindly facilitated by Porton Down.
They have been well and truly rumbled, bang to rights.
And Putin has known about this all along.
He is playing a different game.
Peter, I fully agree with your post above, at 1:12 pm, but I am very unsure that Putin “is playing a different game.” I suspect that the Russians are inept in this kind of games where their western counterparts are skilful and controlling the media.
I think Britain making Russian mafia unwelcome in Britain is in Putin’s interest.
Putin did not make much noise about the Panama or Paradise papers. Outing tax havens sucking off Russian capital is in the interest of the Russian state
https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/paradisepapers/politik/this-is-the-leak-e866529/
https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/20160403-putin-russia-offshore-network/
This here is the Putin friend and Russian Cellist outed in the Panama Papers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/10/russian-cellist-sergei-roldugin-panama-papers-donations-putin
There has been a cooperation/noncooperation by the US and Russia on international treaties going on “because of Putin”.
In January 2016 OPCW declared the destruction of Syrian chemical weapons finished. Then in May 2016 Dr. Robin Black of Porton Down publishes a book claiming that there was no known synthesis of Novichok. But German BND had received a sample from an ex-Soviet scientist and shared it with NATO countries. So the stuff must have been in his very own laboratory and he was its head.
Iran seems to have smelled a rat, synthesized the stuff and put it into the OPCW database beginning of 2017. What did they suspect?
Duncan
I have passed on the Intel re the French Connection to a French journalist.
But we need to think how best to inform journalists in all the nations that knowingly expelled Russian Diplomats on a false UK prospectus.
They knew May was lying but chucked the Russians out anyway.
Why would they do that?
– trying to keep good relations with the UK in the times of BREXIT
– considering Theresa May the best bet in BREXIT negotiations
– nowing they had now leverage over Theresa May
– not wishing to quit the Western security alliance/NATO
– taking the easiest non-controversal path
– sloth
Well.
The Iranian information was accepted by OPCW in 2017.
It appears these chemicals only became of interest when Bad Russia used them.
Until Salisbury they were deadly, but maybe not deadly enough for an organisation whose sole purpose is chemical weapons control.
https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/62nd-executive-council-meeting-of-the-opcw
Peter, I disagree slightly.
Although much of the interaction between MI6 and CIA is a two-way street, I believe there are indications that MI6 are trying to save their country’s diminishing role in the world by playing a dominant role in enforcing the Western narrative. The Integrity Initiative’s documents show that we should not be surprised this type of ‘catastrophe’ occurred, and certainly not how this was then played out as a NATO huddling group-think exercise. I am also surprised that it is only the second time in 6 years that the head of MI6 made a personal public appearance and speech, right after the Integrity Initiative was exposed.
Prior to that, Trump’s threat to fully expose the FBI links with the UK-linked Steele dossier was met with consternation and pleading from the UK government and intel services.
I believe the likelihood is that May was led by the hand by her own MI6. The initial communication about the Skripal incident was met with skepticism from a number of allies, derision from France (‘we don’t do fantasy politics’), but the key message was put across to all allies that this was a NATO allegiance-swearing huddle and all had to take part. Canada followed (and probably also knew May was blowing air) but phrased the expulsion around the insulting actions of some Russian diplomats in Canada (something which had happened half a year before, where Freeland was pointed out by a Russian diplomat as having a nazi collaborating Ukrainian grandfather – a charge which was true, but possibly inappropriate, yet a response to Freeland’s relentless defense of Ukraine’s narrative). A number of smaller countries did these expulsions also and simultaneously privately apologized to the Russian foreign ministry (ie Belgium) – the one diplomat expelled there has already been reinstated. I do find that the Integrity Initiative sheds some light on this incident so I am hoping Rob can try to also put his lucid mind to use in looking at this.
In other words, I believe the Skripal affair, in combination with the Integrity Initiative, put MI6 first in the row as intelligence and narrative leader in NATO, and goes a little way to averting the influence-disaster which is Brexit (ie UK and the US through UK, loosing influence by the UK’s withdrawal from the EU).
There is this intriguing view from UK military from July
https://www.forces.net/news/comment-nerve-agent-novichok-who-didnt-ask-vital-question
“The nerve agent poisoning of two people in Wiltshire could lead President Trump to back Russian President Putin’s original denial that a previous poisoning in the UK was nothing to do with Russia.
That could discredit MI6 and the Prime Minister Theresa May, who claimed the Russians were behind an attack in Salisbury last March.”
…
“The investigation into how Novichok got onto the streets of Salisbury last March included security and personal vulnerabilities at Porton Down.
If the source is not cleared quickly, that investigation could be reviewed.
If there is no quick and sound explanation, Mrs May, who was extremely quick in March to accuse Russia of being the source and the attacker, will have to answer international suspicion that the UK government and its senior intelligence agency got it wrong.
This will then come up at the 11-12 NATO meeting without any credible response from the British government.
President Trump is to meet President Putin in Helsinki on 16 July. Again, if there are still doubts on source and attacker, Mr Putin will not be slow to condemn Mrs May.
President Trump will condemn everyone, special relationships will wither and the world, in general, will trust no one.
The Skripal case has always had three weaknesses, with questions still remaining: why were the Skripals attacked, why did it happen in March and why was a nerve agent used?
In other words, it was never going to go away. As of this morning, it certainly has not.”
https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/police-pre-crime-minority-report-systems-announced/
– UK police are investing millions in a new predictive pre-crime system, the National Data Analytics System
– The system will access police databases, social services, and even the NHS and schools
– Every citizen would risk being monitored, judged and having our lives intruded upon by the Police
– Largest British law enforcement system threatens civil liberties handing massive power to the state
https://williambowles.info/2019/01/18/still-alive-link-tax-censorship-machines/
The Link Tax (Article 11) would charge a copyright fee for the snippets of texts that usually accompany links and help users find content online by providing small previews. It would require online platforms to pay to link to news sites, which will harm content creators by reducing the discoverability of their content. It also entrenches the largest content aggregators, such as Facebook and Google – who are the only ones with deep-enough pockets to foot the cost of the Link Tax.
Censorship Machines (Article 13) would introduce content filtering requirements, turning online platforms into the copyright police and make them liable for user generated content. This would require all content platforms to implement expensive filtering systems, similar to YouTube’s multi-million dollar Content ID system.
Dawn’s inquest was scheduled for Wednesday 16th. I’ve found nothing on a Google search. Anyone know if it happened ?
No I was concerned about that, nothing from the Salisbury Journal
Curious
The OPCW document
There are two different versions of this document, both dated 14 January 2019:
In this one, the mis-spelling “flourides” appears:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%28e%29.pdf
In this one, the mis-spelling has been corrected:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B(e).pdf
The second url does not work as a link (I think the html syntax is wrong) so you have to enter it manually.
If you download the pdf files you can see the different filenames:
ecm62dec01(e).pdf
ecm62dec01+(e).pdf
The difference is the + sign.
indeed, If you scroll down in this blog, you will see my discussions with Liane on this topic.
The first one was removed, then for a short while there was none on the OPCW site, then later came the corrected “fluoro” version.
In most organisations, this would mean naming the second corrected version as a revision.
Apparently not in the OPCW.
They vaguely hint at a revision on the first page by inserting a star after the document number:
EC-M-62/DEC.1*
and later saying what that means:
* Reissued in English for technical reasons.
And underneath that they give a different document number and date to that shown elsewhere:
CS-2019-1657(E) distributed 16/01/2019
There appear to be no other differences between the two docs, apart from the flouro fluoro correction.
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%28e%29.pdf
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B(e).pdf
I don’t know if it’s a bug in WordPress but the last link does not extend to the .pdf at the end. You have to copy and paste the full URL to see the web page.
Here is a corrected link to the revised document. The OPCW forgot to close the brackets:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01+%28e%29.pdf
%28 is open brackets and %29 is close brackets. %2B is the + sign. I think they confused %2B with %28
https://www.obkb.com/dcljr/charstxt.html
The link should probably be this:
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%2B%28e%29.pdf
“* Reissued in English for technical reasons.”
This means “we got it wrong last time”.
Yes, it is quite possible that the OPCW is following this.
At least they can use some of us as type checkers.
(Never trust my spelling though)
The implied narrative of the Amesbury Novichok is isn’t just pure fiction its pure nonsense.
A second (back-up) Novichok container was brought to Salisbury, we know it was a back-up and not used because it was still wrapped in thick plastic “like bacon”.
Also it was not designed to coat a door handle, only a lunatic would use a spray which forms an aerosol to coat a door handle. If the door handle was the primary target then that would brushed / dabbed on so that it does not become airborne and kill the person applying it. Oh and lets add a throat spray nozzle so it can drip from their too onto the assassin.
As an assassins weapon the type of bottle that was used was also chosen by a lunatic. The glass container came from a counterfeit range of perfumes sold through wholesalers in Russia, it was a cheap look-a-likey to an original Sample Bottle manufactured for Nina Ricci. The counterfeit underwent no quality control and its propensity to leak was unknown hence vacuum packed but once the assassin opened the sealed plastic wrapped package they stood a good chance of being killed very quickly by the deadly nerve agent because of leakage.
And so that design flaw was confirmed when Charlie opened the sealed package and got the stuff all over his hands, yet he didn’t die, he didn’t even become ill until more than 8 hours later.
But what if Charlie hadn’t found it and it remained in the bin where would it have gone then?
And we don’t know how it came to be in the bin. It surely hadn’t been deposited by the assassins, the bins were emptied several times between them being in Salisbury and Charlie finding it. Was it found by a member of the public who thought I know I will take this to the Charity shop at some point in the future and when they did the Charity shop didn’t fancy the idea of selling perfume wrapped in a bacon wrapper? We just don’t know, or at least the charity shop workers would have been asked by the police (you would hope) did any of you chuck this out? If they did we haven’t been told.
Except the assassins disposed of the actual (brush on) Novichok quite efficiently, that has never been found so did they dispose of their two weapons separately? There was a wheely bin a few feet from Sergei’s front door, I wonder if the police looked in that?
The designers of the Salisbury Hoax have a telltale signature on each of the elements of the mystery – they are all nonsense. And that is why nobody believes them.
The clue to the package being a plant is in the spray nozzle.
If Charlie had found a real counterfeit Nina Ricci perfume sample and the police just weaved that into the narrative to give the Salisbury Hoax another boost that would not have contained the throat nozzle.
Charlie and Dawn may well have fallen ill from something other than what was in the perfume bottle but it was important that that bottle was found in a bin that was a regular haunt for Charlie on his “Treasure Searching” trips. He was known to frequent that bin regularly and it is monitored by CCTV. He’s has some good finds from it in the past including a massage chair that had no PAC Testing Cert.
My fear is Charlie was targeted but Dawn must also have been known to be at risk.
Were they chosen because they were expendable and the Hoax makers needed a further distraction from Salisbury or did Charlie / Dawn know something about the 4th March?
I don’t know
I think Charlie and Dawn witnessed the poisoning on the bench so they had to be silenced by intimidation. Whether the poisoners intended to kill them, I’m not sure.
If I had put stuff on door handle 47 CMR I would want rid of
applicator-deadly type-stuff asap.
Would dump it down road side drain-grid and make a sharp exit!
Not wander around taking snapshots and looking in shop windows.
Doing best at avoiding Cctv
Mark,
The baddies must have know that the world’s most deadly nerve agent would be identified by the UK super sleuths. Either from the victims or the door handle.
So why bother hiding the container post dosing?
If it is hidden rather than discarded, then it could be found. (Charley “found it”.)
If it was discarded, by disposing in a drain, river, litter bin in London etc, then that would mean the container was never found.
Yes Duncan,Never Found! That’s the Idea If GU Guys came Salisbury
for a Hit On Skripal!
Don’t leave a trail leading back Kremlin. Dispose of applicator-equipment
after hit and disappear.
Don’t think environmental issues as to pollution-rivers-streams-rats would
come as a thought regarding GU Hit Squad…Least of worries.
Where is dead Wildlife…Ducks-Birds-Squirrels-Cats-Dogs-Rats-Humans?
It never happened. No Novichok!!
TPTB have messed up Big Time…Real Novichok would have destroyed
Salisbury for a long time.
TPTB didn’t think about road drains-gutters as a dumping place if it was a
real genuine attack. All Bollocks!
They were obviously much more community minded than you, Mark (LoL!). Can you even imagine how many sewer rats it would have dispatched after they had chewed through the wrapping – it would have been genocide, and then it would have moved on to the sanitation engineers. Can you imagine the clean up effort? Digging up the roads, encasing the whole of Salisbury – including the Cathedral – in mothball wrapping. And then where would be be?
Dawn seems to have been incredibly popular. She was described as listening to everybody. I think police or other services used them to get information on the drug scene.
I think it was delivered via drug dealers to a drug hideout and Charlie does not want to talk about that.
I agree with your analysis of the second bottle. It was deliberately made not to look like the murder weapon.
I think it was meant as blackmail to the UK government to silence Skripal who had recovered enough to serve as witness against the Russian mafia.
British authorities had to admit to the public that they could not be sure more bottles would turn up. And they prepared for more cases.
Yulia was sure she could return to Russia before the death of Dawn Sturgess but went silent on it afterwards.
And Petrov and Boshirov presumably weren’t sweating because of the Russian state but because of the Russian mafia. So they went to RT for protection.
Their statement that they had to protect clients sounds like omerta.
Couriers would know a lot about document carriers indeed.
Destroying the roof of Skripal’s house probably means destroying his archive. Which will include British and American names.
Pablo Miller’s deleted linked-in profile seems to have included this
“Between 2006-09, he led the British Government’s flagship project in Bogota, supporting the Colombian state’s programme aimed at countering high-level, drugs-related corruption and impunity. He enjoys a wealth of experience and expertise in the management of high-end Insider Threat risks. Pablo continues to work part-time for the Foreign Office on a contract basis. ”
There is this information on the British flagship project
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/27/columbia_bus_data/
So if Skripal was working on the Russian mafia, Pablo Miller presumably worked on them, too. If Skripal was in danger, Pablo Miller was.
And no you don’t send the office girl with important stuff on a bus to be robbed.
You send two guys like Boshirov and Petrov.
Or translated into Russian it is a message that the British state will not protect Skripal any longer.
Putin outing Boshirov and Petrov was not directed at the West. It was directed at the people involved in this in Russia to let them know that the authorities knew everything.
And there is of course this from Radio Prague
https://www.radio.cz/en/section/curraffrs/skripal-suspects-believed-to-have-followed-him-in-czechia-long-before-attempted-poisoning
“The visits by Petrov and Boshirov to Prague in 2014 were reportedly later an object of interest to both the Czech Intelligence Service BIS and the National Centre for Combatting Organized Crime. However in view of the ongoing Skripal investigation, neither institution is willing to confirm this or provide any information to the media.”
Thanks Rob, for your insightful & incisive work on this. I’ve been following the Blog Mire since shortly after the’ poisoning’. (One of your early posts on the Skripal affair was shared on Johnson’s Russia List, out of George Washington University, to which I subscribe.)
I appreciate your reluctance to speculate, let alone engage in conspiracy theories.However I have no such qualms. You’ve already hinted at the simplest explanation fitting the facts we know – including the official assertions that you have revealed as lies. Here goes:
The entire affair was a British intelligence operation, with complicity of key US intelligence officials, to silence Mr. Skripal. The aim was to keep him from being questioned about any knowledge he might have had regarding the provenance of the Trump ‘dossier’, peddled to US officials by Skripal’s close associate Christopher Steele.
The dossier, it’s now clear, was used fraudulently by top FBI officials illegally to obtain warrants to spy on the Trump campaign in 2016.
The Skripals were incapacitated, not at their home, nor at lunch … maybe not even over drinks, but probably mere moments before they were found on the park bench. Some potent sedative was used – via injection, inadvertent ingestion, aerosol or gas (eg fentanyl gas, which has been weaponized). This provided a pretext to whisk them away and then, hold them [mostly] incommunicado.
Any ‘Novichok’ involved was planted well after the fact by British intelligence, with help from Porton Down. Like the official timeline, its disposal was botched, resulting in the poisoning of two innocent bystanders.
Senior US officials were complicit, likely on a ‘rogue’ basis. These would be individuals like James Comey, so deeply implicated in criminal aspects of the Russiagate hoax that they would face prison if exposed and prosecuted. In Britain, however, the govt. rush to judgment suggests full complicity, up to and including Mrs May & her ministers, with Russiagate and the fake ‘Novichok’ attack.
That is, the May govt has actively abetted what amounts to an attempted coup d’etat against Donald Trump by rogue officials of the US Deep State.
Sergei Skripal is probably now dead. How and just when are unimportant; why is obvious. For her sake, I hope Yulia knows nothing about her dad’s work with Steele.
Hi John, I am not going to go through your theory line by line – most of it is pretty close I think. One part I would quibble with is that I am 100% sure it was not the Skripals on the bench but I am not going to argue that point with you.
You said: “Senior US officials were complicit, likely on a ‘rogue’ basis” – I have a source who has told me that the US was certainly involved and when I queried “exactly which arm of the US?” I was told “US military”. Whilst I cannot divulge the source, please assume it is trust worthy. How would that change your thinking?
You could of course tell this story the other way round. That Skripal who everybody now seems to agree worked on the Russian mafia (which he would be extremely qualified to do having worked as a GRU officer under diplomatic cover in Spain in the 1990’s when they all bought property there) was used to dig up dirt on the property dealings by Trump’s and Jared Kushner’s companies. That the part of the British establishment who facilitated Trump’s election (anybody remember Cambridge Analytica), who profit from Russian “investment” in Britain, who are connected to US mercenary business, facilitated the attack on him. They are as anti-Russian state as Christopher Steele as cooperation with Russia would restrict their business drawing capital from Russia. So the “Novichok” might very well have been their idea. Aligned interests produce strange effects.
Plus, Novichok turning up again in the case of Dawn Sturgess and Charles Rowley, was a way to threaten and blackmail the British government, to silence Skripal, when it was clear, he was alive and could talk.
As it is in Russia’s interest to keep its capital, Skripal might have got cooperation from the Russian state in his research. He certainly had the contacts to be able to.
Borishov’s and Petrov’s role may very well have been to bring them documents.
First photos of them appeared in Swiss papers after the death of Dawn Sturgess.
above comment is anidea
Trump Towe and the Russian mafia
https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate
“Throughout the 1990s, untold millions from the former Soviet Union flowed into Trump’s luxury developments and Atlantic City casinos. But all the money wasn’t enough to save Trump from his own failings as a businessman. He owed $4 billion to more than 70 banks, with a mind-boggling $800 million of it personally guaranteed. He spent much of the decade mired in litigation, filing for multiple bankruptcies and scrambling to survive. For most developers, the situation would have spelled financial ruin. But fortunately for Trump, his own economic crisis coincided with one in Russia.
In 1998, Russia defaulted on $40 billion in debt, causing the ruble to plummet and Russian banks to close. The ensuing financial panic sent the country’s oligarchs and mobsters scrambling to find a safe place to put their money. That October, just two months after the Russian economy went into a tailspin, Trump broke ground on his biggest project yet. Rising to 72 stories in midtown Manhattan, Trump World Tower would be the tallest residential building on the planet. Construction got underway in 1999—just as Trump was preparing his first run for the presidency on the Reform Party ticket— and concluded in 2001. As Bloomberg Businessweek reported earlier this year, it wasn’t long before one-third of the units on the tower’s priciest floors had been snatched up—either by individual buyers from the former Soviet Union, or by limited liability companies connected to Russia. “We had big buyers from Russia and Ukraine and Kazakhstan,” sales agent Debra Stotts told Bloomberg.”
When I try to get the front page of The Blogmire, I get this:
“Not Acceptable
An appropriate representation of the requested resource / could not be found on this server”.
Is this an attempt at censorship?
@ Blunderbus
I have experienced the same, I don’t think it’s censorship (that would be more extensive – like posts disappearing), it’s more likely to be some cyclic bug in WordPress.
Well, well, well. The man who has been “Mr Wiltshire Air Ambulance” since day one, ‘retired’ last year. Strangely, it seems to have gone unmarked… he just sort of ‘vanished’.
He doesn’t even get a mention at the Charity Commission:
http://beta.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-details/?regid=1144097&subid=0
which is odd because it clearly says that is “Data for financial year ending 31 October 2017”, when he absolutely was the President…
Even stranger, if you use: (“Richard Youens” wiltshire air ambulance) as a search term in Google you get NO results at all. Odd… it is like he didn’t exist or something. You get lots of results if you try the same term with Yandex or DuckDuckGo.
After much trying, I did ‘force’ Google to admit that he did in fact exist and even got a link that mentioned his ‘retirement’:
https://ocm.wiltshire.gov.uk/calne/wiltshire-air-ambulance-campaigner-becomes-lifetime-president/
Maybe somebody should give Rebecca a nudge, she doesn’t seem to have noticed it yet.
This must, of course, all be completely coincidental and clearly has nothing to do with WAA participating in any hoax on 4 March, 2018….
Speaking of hoaxes, I wonder if the auditor of WAA is thinking about the civil liability WAA will face if and when its role in the hoax becomes more widely known.
I might just drop a letter to the auditors:
James Gare (Senior Statutory Auditor)
For and on behalf of MHA Monahans
Statutory Auditors
Chartered Accountants
Fortescue House
Court Street
Trowbridge
BA14 8FA
and ask them whether it might need a note to their opinion. Whilst I am at it, I could suggest they look at the flight data that suggest WAA are involved in daily flights that do not appear to have anything to do with an air ambulance service. I wonder what they are up to…
Look at this:
https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/who-we-are/our-team/richard-youens-president
And this is an earlier version:
https://web.archive.org/web/20170411141422/https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/who-we-are/our-team/richard-youens-president
Yep. I am aware of those and other links. Richard is a ‘colourful’ character. His work in film insurance took him around the world; he was involved in several significant films such as ‘Apocalypse Now’ and no doubt was known by all the people who needed to know him (I’m sure you catch my drift.). His book ‘It’s always Friday’ is worth a look too. He has had an interesting life…
My guess is that RY objected to the misuse of the helicopter so he is being written out of history.
Somebody had to approve WAA’s involvement. I wonder who that might have been…
… and I, in turn, wonder whether any of this had any effect on the decision to voluntarily liquidate Heli Charter Ltd at the end of 2018.
I think you are correct to wonder that Eleanor and I think we are unearthing some of the people involved in the ‘winning’ plan that day.
“daily flights that do not appear to have anything to do with an air ambulance service”
Do you mean they are doing it on a regular basis?
According to page 4 of their 2017 accounts: “In the period from the 1st November 2016 to the 31st October 2017 Wiltshire Air Ambulance responded to 604 incidents”
http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends97/0001144097_AC_20171031_E_C.PDF
I went through the WAA incident register and in the period from 5 September 2017 to 4 March 2018, there are 34 incidents listed, not all involving the helicopter. Obviously flying is expensive and for most calls the land ambulance is perfectly adequate and they don’t list every callout but 34 listed incidents in 6 months seems VERY low.
If you check the online flight data, the helicopter does fly most days but on the vast majority of days, the flight path takes it nowhere near a hospital. What is it doing?
The new chairman of the Wiltshire Air Ambulance is Chris Lear. He is a biochemist I think and had a company called Autogen Bioclear. When I google “Autogen Bioclear Porton Down”, I get lots of technical PDF’s on their chemistry, one even mentioned anthrax. More investigation of these is needed by any chemists out there.
Could it be that the WAA is being used as a courier for Porton Down’s dangerous products. The AA’s transponder does go off sometimes over Porton Down to possibly hide this. With WAA’s medical expertise it does seem possible?
Peter has done far more work on this Denise but it rather looks like air ambulances are being used by the security services across the country – not just WAA. It is great cover for their ops and the public willingly pays for it all. What more could MI5 want?
Military Helicopter everyone looks…Air Ambulance..Someone
having a bad time-situation.
Perfect cover for Secret Operational Flights.
“…the helicopter does fly most days but on the vast majority of days, the flight path takes it nowhere near a hospital. What is it doing?”
Could these be training flights?
The pilots were employed by heli-charter (now in liquidation) not WAA – they are all experienced so ‘training’ is probably not it. They are ‘doing’ something… but it does not look like it has much to do with ‘rescuing’ people and taking them to hospital.
I don’t believe that Richard Youens departure and now the ‘voluntary liquidation’ of Heli-charter are coincidental. This is their punishment for being involved in a plan to defeat HMG’s plan for the day!
“The pilots were employed by heli-charter (now in liquidation)”
This is another oddity – heli-charter is not in liquidation – it is listed by Companies House as “Active”, although the accounts are overdue:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02163475
The issue here is protecting the company’s creditors. Since the company is solvent, it can be wound up as a members’ voluntary liquidation. They don’t need to do anything except collect the debts, pay the bills, loans etc. and then dissolve the company. During that process they are still technically ‘active’ and anyone dealing with the company essentially gets a personal guarantee from the directors who are ‘continuing to trade’ while the company is being wound up. It is a very different situation if a company that is not solvent is being liquidated.
That’s because the closure is so recent, blunderbuss:
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2019/01/03/manstons-heli-charter-ltd-goes-into-voluntary-liquidation/
Mrs May didn’t need to call a General Election in 2107, that was a stupid decision.
There was no need to call an election, she had a majority going into Brexit and she opted to sabotage that and she succeeded, she “won” a Hung Parliament.
She has not been able to negotiate a Brexit deal because she is stupid.
There is no Irish “problem”, the UK don’t need to put up a border, if the EU want to finance one on the Southern Ireland side, man it and manage it, that is entirely up to them, the UK can do nothing about what the Europeans do in Europe.
This is how the public (who voted) voted in 2017
CON Conservative 42.4 %
LAB Labour 40.0 %
LD Liberal Democrat 7.4 %
SNP Scottish National Party 3.0 %
UKIP UKIP 1.8 %
If there is another election in the next few weeks then the prospects of a vastly different result is currently unlikely.
People will mainly vote Con or Lab (if they can be bothered voting).
The Choice is vote for stupid May or Stupid Corbyn.
Corbyn is insisting on voting for a bad deal for the UK or staying in Europe. That is stupid.
The UK public have voted to come out of Europe.
The options are;
Have another 2 referendums and take the best out of 3
Ignore the 1st referendum completely (NB not a plebiscite)
Do nothing
Extend the decision making time ad infinitum for people to come to an agreement that have proved they are not capable of negotiating a deal for the UK (or for Europe).
The UK is a Cash Cow for Europe. They don’t want the UK to leave, they will do whatever they can to frustrate the process and block the will of the British People.
There is only one solution. Another General Election.
Please Please Please DO NOT vote Tory or Labour. Vote for an Independent Candidate (even if you don’t have a clue who they are)
You know with certainty what Tory and Labour MP’s are like and what they do.
Give Democracy a chance. What have we got to lose?
Don’t vote UKIP, vote for a truly Independent Candidate
52 percent is not that impressive a majority. Usually you need something like two thirds to decide anything dramatic for your country.
https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
52 percent is also not that impressive a majority if you consider that London, Scotland, Northern Ireland went all for remain.
If you want to split Britain …..
just saying
A 52% share of turnout voting to leave the EU is better than the vote that took us into the then-EEC—no direct vote, just one point in a Conservative Party manifesto in an election that saw them win 44.89% of the votes (32.3% of electorate).
And ‘[u]sually you need something like two thirds to decide anything dramatic for your country’ is essentially meaningless: while some nations have constitutional requirements for ‘supermajorities’ to decide certain issues, no similar constitutional requirement exists in Britain. With no constitutional or any kind of legal requirement for a ‘supermajority’, you’ll firstly have to obtain agreement for a definition of ‘supermajority’—two-thirds of turnout? of electorate? three-quarters?—and then enact it in statute. Secondly, if the ‘supermajority’ idea is not to be dismissed as mere disingenuousness, it must be explained why a ‘supermajority’ is necessary to take us out of the EU when no such ‘supermajority’ was necessary to take us in; those promoting it should also furnish some evidence of their demanding similar ‘supermajorities’ in respect of earlier referenda (2014 Scottish independence, 2011 AV, 1997 Scottish and Welsh devolution, etc.).
There is no danger of Brexit ‘split[ting] Britain’ no national lines—while 1,661,191 Scottish electors voted for Remain, 1,018,322 voted for Leave and they’re not going anywhere; and Scottish Remain-voters are not changing their national allegiance—there is a vast difference between preferring to be part of a United Kingdom within the EU and being willing to break up a 400-year-old nation out of overarching loyalty to Brussels. This should be especially obvious in respect of Northern Ireland: while 440,437 Ulster electors voted Remain as opposed to 349,442 voting Leave, the idea that Remain-voting Ulster Unionists will ever countenance the dissolution of our Kingdom is risible to say the least.
As for London, it is no longer majority native British—we’ve lost our capital. What Buonaparte failed to achieve with his Garde Impériale, what Wilhelm failed to achieve with his Englandgeschwader Gothas, what Adolf failed to achieve with his Blitz, our own government achieved by opening the gates.
A solid exit from the EU will destroy separatism in respect of at least Scotland and Wales—Scotland’s SNP and Wales’ Plaid Cymru (and Spain’s Catalans, btw) seek ersatz independence: there would be no substantive changes except for sporting a different flag and watch El Presidente Sturgeon or Salmond riding around in a limousine, receiving the salutes of gaudily-uniformed guards. But with Britain out of the EU, ‘s**t’s gonna get real’. Instead of “““independence””” being ‘Business As Usual’ but for some minor bits and bobs, it would mean hard change—massive issues (currency, border customs checks, visa requirements for travel, etc.) that can’t be hand-waved away. From the Unionist point of view, the ‘harder’ Brexit the better.
(It’s even possible that if the RoI went for ‘Irexit’, we might finally see Irish nationalism buried—although Irish victimhood has a long history.)
Your comments about RoI are disgusting.
Cry more.
Then, once you’ve finished crying, you can go donate some more to fund your Irish republicans blowing up more pubs, shopping centres and memorial services.
Your RoI is the only nation whose people have been directly consulted over both SSM and abortion—every other country had to suffer it imposed on them from above by political elites or courts; but Ireland was given the choice, and you chose to embrace Satan. 37.3% of RoI’s electorate voted for the mockery of Holy matrimony and 42.3% voted to legalise the murder of infants. (Admittedly, it’s arguable how different ripping infants apart with surgical instruments in the womb is from ripping them apart with Semtex outside—although you Irish republicans on at least one occasion managed to rip apart an infant in the womb with Semtex: the Omagh Massacre, whose 29 dead included Avril Monaghan, 30 and 8-months pregnant with twin girls, murdered along with her 18-month-old daughter, Maura, and her mother, Mary Grimes, 65. Three generations of a family gone in a moment, martyred on the altar of your Unholy republican cause. As Kerry bishop David Moriarty said about yet another Irish republican atrocity: ‘[E]ternity is not long enough, nor hell hot enough to punish such miscreants.’)
Don’t talk to me about ‘disgusting’. I’d tell you to go to Hell but I’m sure your ticket is already booked.
May calling the GE might have been foolish on her part but it had least a few upsides.
In Scotland, the SNP was near destroyed (they bled votes out of everywhere and then some, losing almost half a million votes as well as 21 MPs—most amusingly was Salmond getting salmoned; even the seats they held had them hanging on by their fingernails—one seat saw a majority of 4,344 reduced to 2!). In contrast, the Conservatives saw their best results in Scotland since 1992 and are now the second party in Scotland in both votes and MPs. Maybe not in the rest of Britain but June 8 was a Tory night in Scotland. While in Ulster, the DUP was transformed from bystanders into kingmakers and dealbreakers. Between Scotland and Ulster, as the DUP’s Arlene Foster remarked, it was a ‘good night for the Union’.
TBF to May, her party obtained 2,406,618 votes more than Cameron’s 2015 result; but this was balanced by Labour’s votes increasing 3,530,625. Considering the 2017 GE as a rerun of the 2016 referendum, it is notable that the parties promising to deliver the result (Conservatives, Labour and DUP) all saw their votes increase (21.4%, 37.8% & 58.6% respectively), while the most blatantly pro-EU parties (Lib Dems, Green, SNP & Plaid Cymru) saw theirs decrease (1.37%, 54.29%, 32.79% & 9.49%). (UKIP saw its vote collapse, of course, but with Brexit apparently achieved and both Labour and Conservatives promising delivery, many of its voters would have thought ‘mission accomplished’ and returned to their political homes; UKIP’s post-referendum leadership farce and turn to English nationalism were likely other factors in their demise.)
Brexiteers should perhaps be thankful for the 2017 GE as it is apparent that May was planning to betray us from the start; and I’m unsure that a solid Conservative win would have meant sufficient Brexiteer MPs to vote against May’s Versailles-level deal.
As for the RoI–GB&NI border molehill, I noted here on a previous BlogMire post, that we had a far ‘harder’ border than any so far envisaged operating for decades due to the security situation in NI; and as I wrote, ‘The sky fell not. The world continued to turn. We. Coped.’
For an electoral way forward, whenever I trot out the notion of the DUP going national, it seems generally well received (by Unionists and Brexiteers—Remainers and separatists sperg out, which is itself a selling point). So far the DUP show little inclination but maybe we can persuade them with a grassroots movement—what would they do if they started receiving membership applications from all over the mainland?
Wrt giving ‘Democracy a chance’, it was “““democracy””” that got us into this mess—at least the untrammelled version we have evolved, where votes are thrown out like confetti, with neither knowledge nor public service or even citizenship (foreign residents from 53 countries being allowed to vote in all our elections and referenda) required. And we had better MPs before we started paying them (salaries only introduced in 1911). We should question the very nature of our political system, and consider how many of the democratic “““reforms””” were well-intentioned errors at best and at worst, naked efforts to game the system and disguise the centuries-long Commons power grab. Some ideas here (3 posts starting with linked; especially see Hoppe excerpt).
Britain played a lead role in destroying Libya and second fiddle in destroying Syria, attempting to murder two Russians is a piece of cake to British government, especially if it’s a means to an end, cripple the Russian economy.
https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/13/the-memo-that-helped-kill-a-half-million-people-in-syria/
“Bringing down Assad would not only be a massive boon to Israel’s security, it would also ease Israel’s understandable fear of losing its nuclear monopoly. Then, Israel and the United States might be able to develop a common view of when the Iranian program is so dangerous that MILITARY ACTION COULD BE WARRANTED.”
“…Iran would be strategically isolated, unable to exert its influence in the Middle East. The resulting regime in Syria will see the United States as a friend, not an enemy. WASHINGTON WOULD GAIN SUBSTANTIAL RECOGNITION AS FIGHTING FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE ARAB WORLD, not the corrupt regimes. For Israel, the rationale for a bolt from the blue attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities would be eased. And a new Syrian regime might well be open to early action on the frozen peace talks with Israel. Hezbollah in Lebanon would be cut off from its Iranian sponsor since Syria would no longer be a transit point for Iranian training, assistance and missiles.”
It was “a low-cost high-payoff approach,” the memo says, that would eliminate one enemy, weaken two more, and GENERATE SUCH JOY AMONG ORDINARY SYRIANS that peace talks between Damascus and Tel Aviv will spring back to life. The risks appeared to be nil. Since “THE LIBYAN OPERATION HAD NO LONG-LASTING CONSEQUENCES FOR THE REGION,” the memo supposes, referring to the overthrow of strongman Muammer Gaddafi six months earlier, the Syrian operation wouldn’t either. In a passage that may have influenced Clinton’s policy of a no-fly zone, despite Dunford’s warning, the memo says:
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/18328
The best way to help Israel deal with Iran’s growing nuclear capability is to help the people of Syria overthrow the regime of Bashar Assad.
GCHQ sets up all-female cyber-training classes:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-46893352
Must Have Red Hair……..Do not bother applying otherwise!
Surely you mean blue hair.
TDDT..Theresa Department of Dirty Tricks….[Cockroach]!
DDT – kills all known cockroaches.
Now that OPCW have officially banned the Novichok family which as we know, could only be made by Russia, here is how to make them….
General procedure for microsynthesis.
N-[bis(dimethylamino)methylidene]-P-methylphosphonamidic fluoride 3 was synthesized by
the controlled addition of N,N,N′,N′-tetramethylguanidine to methylphosphonic difluoride 1
solution. N,N,N′,N′-tetramethylguanidine (0.60 mmol) and triethylamine (0.65 mmol) in
dichloromethane (500 µL) was added slowly into the solution of methylphosphonic difluoride
(0.40 mmol) in dichloromethane (500 µL), while stirring at 0-5 °C. After 30 min, the
resulting precipitate was filtered off and the solution was analyzed by GC/MS.
The corresponding O-alkyl N-[bis(dimethylamino)methylidene]-P-methylphosphonamidates
4 were synthesized by the addition of ROH to a solution of cpd 3. Sodium hydride powder
(NaH, 60% in mineral oil, 0.5 mmol) was washed by dry hexane two times. The hexane was
removed and dichloromethane (500 µL) was added and the solution was kept stirring at 0-5
ºC. The appropriate alcohol (0.5 mmol) was slowly added into the suspension and the
reaction solution was stirred at 0-5 ºC for 30 min. Cpd 3 in dichloromethane (200 µL) was
then added dropwise to the solution, while stirring at 0-5 ºC for 2 hours. Any precipitate was
filtered off and the resulting solutions of the end product were analyzed by GC/MS. It should
be noted that, due to the extreme toxicity of these materials, the separation and purification of
CWC-related chemicals are very difficult and therefore should be carried out only by a
trained professional in an efficient fume cupboard equipped with an active charcoal filtration
system.
The above from an excellent organic synthesis research paper from Iran.
Authors below.
Seyed Esmaeil Hosseinia,b
, Hamid Saeidianc*, Ali Amozadeha
, Mohammad Taghi Naserib
,
Mehran Babrib
a Department of Chemistry, Semnan University, P.O. Box: 35131-19111 Semnan, Iran
b Defense Chemical Research Lab (DCRL), P.O. Box: 31585-1461, Karaj, Iran
c Department of Science, Payame Noor University (PNU), P.O. Box: 19395-4697, Tehran,
Iran
The Iranians did it!
Duncan do you have a date for when that part was published?
Part = paper
Fragmentation pathways and structural characterization of organophosphorus compounds related to CWC by electron ionization and electrospray ionization tandem mass spectrometry: Mass spectral studies of organophosphorus compounds related to CWC
Article (PDF Available) in Rapid Communications in Mass Spectrometry 30(24) · October 2016 with 2,415 Reads
DOI: 10.1002/rcm.7757 October 2016.
Note the online version has been read 2,415 times. Maybe even PD scientists read it, before they told Mrs May, that it had to be Russia!
That is not very good news for Mrs May and she could jolly well do with some at the moment.This is proof she misled the UK Parliament and other Parliament’s throughout the world.
In the Iranian paper, they speak of ” the extreme toxicity of these materials”. Did they test it or do they trust Vil Mirzayanov ?
I don’t think so.
They were not looking for guinea pigs.
But I know where they could have found a couple.
The “testing” is an extremely important aspect and what appears a tiny change in the formula (ingredients) and formulation process (recipe method) can and does have an enormous impact on the physical symptoms that are created.
And then there was s the interpretation of how it effects the test species (mammal) Vs humans and how it behaves against a range of humans, age weight health metabolism eye and dose.
The UK developed a novel approach to this problem and tested nerve agents on people saying they were researching the common cold
The Iranian paper can be read here :
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309093991_Fragmentation_pathways_and_structural_characterization_of_organophosphorus_compounds_related_to_CWC_by_electron_ionization_and_electrospray_ionization_tandem_mass_spectrometry_Mass_spectral_studies_of
(Download full-text PDF.)
They speak of a more complete online version : I don’t know where that more complete online version can be found. In this PDF document, they speak of the “extreme toxicity of these materials” (Novichok, or nerve agents in general ?), but they don’t say how they know this extreme toxicity.
They seem to have added it to the OPCW database
from 2017
http://www.spectroscopynow.com/details/ezine/1591ca249b2/Iranian-chemists-identify-Russian-chemical-warfare-agents.html?tzcheck=1,1,1&&tzcheck=1
Keep clear what this means:
The Iranian researchers synthesised some of the “family of Novichoks” and showed the academic world how it was done.
The spectroscopy article in the above link, from January 2107 informed us that the OPCW took in the data to help their comprehension of structures, spectra, fragmentation patters in mass spectrometry.
In March 2018, Mrs May, Bojo, HMG stood up and claimed that only Russia had access to this family of Novichok nerve agents.
How could the OPCW not counter that claim, when 15 months earlier they had accepted this impressive Iranian academic work into their database?
Why did France, USA, Netherlands etc the international representatives of the OPCW not simply say: “We know these chemicals can be made, the Iranian data we added to our files, some 15 months ago.
We only did that because the Iranian scientists made the stuff, and then let the world know.”
@ Peter
In my early army career I was based in a small unit in West Wales. Amongst the various different announcements that appeared on the troop notice board was one from Porton Down asking for volunteers (well remunerated) to participate in testing there. That notice board wasn’t the only place where that notice was posted. Some squaddies actually did take up the offer, I have no record of what happened to them. This was in the late 60s.
I don’t recall any mention of common cold remedies.
Cascadian
The call out for volunteers to the Cold Research went out to civilians in local paers throughout the land, it was also directed to active service men and thousands took up the opportunity of an “easy ticket”.
Service men were less easier to kill and get away with it than civilians.
The civilians were mainly given the lower impact chemical and biological weapon strains. they were given a modest sum of money as thanks, given free board and lodgings in Salisbury for two weeks and experimented on with complete disregard to honesty and safety. They were lied to about what was going to happen to them. Free holiday. Some of the guinea pigs went back year on year.
The servicemen were just killed or maimed, they had volunteered so it was there own fault.
If there hasn’t been a film done I may write a one and tout it, the Russians might fund it.
Servicemen More easier to kill and get away with than civilians, the call out to civilians were put in local Papers. The call out to servicemen put on the barracks’ notice boards.
Their CO’s / OC’s knew exactly what they were volunteering for, the poor sods didn’t.
@ Peter
I’m not challenging your assertions, Peter, just adding another dimension. That gives me another reason to despise the commanding officers in that particular Signal Troop.
http://vfpuk.org/articles/blinded-by-science-porton-down/
Novichok
A lot of this has been covered in the early days of the Blogmire. However, we seem to have built up a new level of enthusiasm to determine chemical structures, symptoms, treatments, historical facts about nerve agents, etc.
Why? There was now Novichok attack on March 4th.
Novichok was simply selected by HMG in order to point the finger at Russia.
It only served the narrative served up by the mainstream media, that Novichok = Russia.
Boris and Mrs May led with this.
Russia carried out the attack, or lost control of their Novichok stockpile.
Porton Down, more than likely with a scheme devised by the Integrity Initiative, had reference materials, and therefore the ability and inclination, post event, to put Novichok in a variety of places if they actually needed to do so.
This latest chapter with the OPCW adding a couple of families of chemical weapons onto the banned list, is simply getting the admin content up to date.
“We never thought that Russia would use it, but they did, we identified it, and now we are banning it.”
The fact that Novichok is both fast acting, slow acting, degrades both quickly but remains pure, just makes the whole deadly nerve agent tripe more plausible to the great British public.
Novichok is unique to Russia is obviously a lie.
Us Blogmirers do not need to prove this again to ourselves.
Look at the facts, facts in that this is what we are being told by TPTB.
“The roof timbers at CRM need to be removed.”
That statement and subsequent act simply show how ridiculous the whole affair is.
However, only the 30+ Blogmirers and a few others, actually care.
Right at the beginning we were told it could only have been the Russian State or they lost control of the stock (when they had some) and that made its way to the UK.
Mrs May gave Russia 24 hours to explain, Russia said we have no idea what you are talking about but if you allow us to come and investigate and take samples we will tell you if this is any of the stuff that we worked on in the 70’s and 80’s before we destroyed all stocks and manufacturing facilities (the the OPCW confirmed).
Mrs May said no
Had Mrs May said yes Russia may have been able to say yes we worked on something very similar to that but we cannot explain, if it came from us, how it was stolen.
What possible benefit was there to an honest investigation by excluding Russia?
The answer is none because there was never an honest investigation.
The offer was made in a way to ensure Russia would not take it up.
There are several scenarios – but none of them reflect well on HMG:
1) It was ‘real’ old Soviet novichok – so how did it end up in Salisbury?
2) It was real novichok and led straight back to the US ‘help’ in cleaning up old facilities.
2) It wasn’t novichok and HMG did not want anyone to have proof of this.
3) It was novichok… but not of a type made in the Soviet Union.
If it had been an honest investigation, a sample would have been sent to Russia with a note saying: “Explain this then!!”
Excellent Sir!
Duncan-Peter also Excellent!
John Helmer points out the obvious.
http://johnhelmer.net/british-government-demolishes-skripal-house-because-sergei-skripal-poisoned-himself-roof-falls-in-on-theresa-may/
That dismantling Skripal’s roof means the poison was inside the house.
So was Bailey using a Marked Police Car or has a Stock-Image been
used in article?
If Bailey working for CID he would be using an Unmarked Vehicle would
he not?
Interesting Article-Angle!
Or another Red Herring
Distract, Confuse, Lie
Distract, Confuse, Lie
Distract, Confuse, Lie
Distract, Confuse, Lie
Distract, Confuse, Lie
etc etc
It seems that Skripal was storing chemicals in his loft. Not only Novichok but also something radioactive, if the Daily Mail is to be believed:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6584645/Military-biohazard-suits-remove-windows-home-ex-spy-Sergei-Skripal-deep-clean.html
Was he hoping to sell them? If so, to whom?
Written by a trainee journalist, Bryony Jewell.
“It seems that Skripal was storing chemicals in his loft.”
Did he use his guinea pigs for tests ?
The house had nothing to do with the poisoning.
Sergei and Yulia, two persons of different gender, age, weight, and health, got ill at the same time. This means they were poisoned shortly before getting ill, this is, minutes before. Police’s early version of the crime was that the Skripals were sprayed with a substance in the street or their drinks were spiked in the pub.
“Ronald’s father John was the only relative allowed into the original inquest and couldn’t tell anyone what he had heard, even Ronald’s mother or four siblings.
Lillias, of Mansfield, Notts, recalls: “My father was not allowed to tell anybody what he knew. It stressed him so much. He was only 53 when he died from a thrombosis three years after so none of us knew what he’d been told.”
Ronald Maddison unlawfully killed in Porton Down Nerve Agent Experiment
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sister-raf-engineer-who-died-12912292
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Antler_(Porton_Down_investigation)
Secrecy in the UK is probably worse than the US, its an illness that our paid leaders prey on and exploit. The UK was / is quite happy to send Julian Assange to the US knowing he may die their, Snowden lives the rest of his life under the threat of death. Their crimes revealing secrets not of anything that keeps the nation safe but of wrongdoing.
The people with the secrets of Salisbury live under the fear of losing their jobs, their pension, their liberty and possibly their lives.
This cancer explains why the the world is in the state it is immorality and wickedness has become acceptable as long as unspoken.
In this country you would get a parliamentary committee investigating.
The result is that secret services for some reason shred their paper works and agents are not allowed to testify.
Lack of control of secret services is a feature not a bug. Problem is also that police defer to secret services.
There was a police joke in Germany that police cannot investigate a secret agent even if they find a corpse next to him.
Fossil Fuel Bonanza in the Levant, Nafeez Ahmed, Journalist, 1st January 2015:
A report by the US Army War College’s Strategic Studies Institute emphasises the need for “US security and military support” to its key allies in the Eastern Mediterranean, particularly Israel, over access to recent vast discoveries of regional oil and gas.
The Army study, released earlier in December 2014, concludes that extensive US military involvement “may prove essential in managing possible future conflict” in case of “an eruption of natural resource conflict in the East Mediterranean,” due to huge gas discoveries in recent years.
Visible US engagement is also necessary to ward off the regional encroachment of “emerging powers and potential new peace brokers such as Russia, which already entertains a strong interest in East Mediterranean gas developments, and notably China.”
Since 2000, the Levant basin – an area encompassing the offshore territories of Israel, Palestine, Cyprus, Turkey, Egypt, Syria, and Lebanon – has been estimated to hold as much as 1.7 bn barrels of oil and up to 122 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. As much of the region’s potential resources remain undiscovered, geologists believe this could be just a third of the total quantities of fossil fuels in the Levant.
The new US Army report argues that these hydrocarbon discoveries are of “tremendous economic and geostrategic significance,” not just for its allies, but for the United States itself. Israel especially stands to “gain considerably from their newly discovered gas wealth” in terms of cost-effective energy for domestic consumption and revenues from gas exports.
But while the discoveries offer the prospect for closer regional cooperation, they also raise “the potential for conflict over these valuable resources.” The potential for resource conflicts over oil and gas relates directly to intractable border conflicts between Israel, the Palestinians, Lebanon and Syria, as well as the unresolved Cypriot question between Greece and Turkey. US interests are to minimise the risk of conflict between its core allies, while maximising their capacity to exploit these resources.
“Israel, Cyprus, and Turkey are key strategic US allies. Neighbouring Egypt, Syria and Lebanon play important roles from the European and US perspective, both as direct neighbours to Israel and the Palestinian Territories, as well as because of their strategically important location as the geographic interconnection between Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East.”
The new US Army report is authored by Mohammed al-Katiri and Laura al-Katiri. Mohammed al-Katiri was previously research director at the UK Ministry of Defence’s, Advanced Research and Assessment Group , but now heads up two private intelligence consultancies, MENA Insight and the Conflict Studies Research Centre, both of which provide services to government and commercial sectors, including the oil and gas industry.
The Strategic Studies Institute which published the report, calls itself an Army “think factory” for “commanders and civilian leaders”. SSI uses independent analysis to help “develop policy recommendations” for the US Army on national security and to “influence policy debate” across the military.
The SSI report on the risk of Middle East resource conflicts notes that Israel’s massive offshore gas discoveries “have yet to translate into proven gas reserves,” but that it’s total of 9.48 tcf of proven, and 30 tcf estimated reserves, positions Israel “ahead of all East Mediterranean countries in terms of gas reserves and resource prospects.”
The Army report also reveals that Syria could hold significant offshore oil and gas potential. In 2007, before the outbreak of hostilities, President Bashar al-Assad launched a first bidding round to secure investment into new exploration efforts, and another in 2012 that was cancelled due to deteriorating security conditions.
“Once the Syria conflict is resolved, prospects for Syrian offshore production, provided commercial resources are found, are high”, observes the report. Potential oil and gas resources can be developed “relatively smoothly once the political situation allows for any new exploration efforts in its offshore territories.”
Nafeez Ahmed, Journalist, 7th March 2018:
A study by the US Army entitled Cultural Perspectives, Geopolitics & Energy Security of Eurasia: Is the Next Global Conflict Imminent?, March 2017, reveals that US strategy toward Russia has been heavily motivated by the goal of dominating Central Asian oil and gas resources, and associated pipeline routes.
This remarkable document concedes that expansionist NATO policies played a key role in provoking Russian militarism. It also contemplates how current US and Russian antagonisms could spark a global nuclear conflict between the two superpowers. It pinpoints the roles of competing US, European and Russian energy interests in driving growing tensions which could convert regional flashpoints into the next world war.
US Army relations between the West and Russia have deteriorated to their lowest point since the end of the Cold War, eroding global geopolitical stability and damaging trade and economic relations between major global and regional powers.
NATO humanitarian intervention and military peace-keeping operations in the region, have always had a broader geostrategic agenda related to the “protection” of US access to Caspian oil and gas.
The Central Asian republics, awash with natural resources (oil, gas, coal, zinc, lead, chromite, copper, iron ore, gold and manganese), are among the most repressive, anti-democratic regimes in the world, consistently lambasted by human rights organizations for their horrific torture and persecution of any political dissent.
“Russia is currently seeking to create security and economic organizations that could be used to rival the existing structures such as NATO and the World Bank. Russia, China, Iran, and other countries have undertaken these and other steps which are not in the national security interests of the United States.
The coalition of new alliances that have emerged as a result — the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), the coalition of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa (BRICS), the Eurasian Customs Union (ECU) — are mostly aimed at opposing US economic and strategic dominance”.
A major priority for US geopolitical strategy is how to break apart these alliances and coalitions between US rivals, which challenge “US economic and strategic dominance”.
According to Col. Gentile, a co-editor of the US Army study, the origin of Russian paranoia about Western intentions goes back to the early 1950s, when the US adopted the ‘First Offset’ strategy by which it “threatened a nuclear strike in order to ‘convince’ the Kremlin that fighting another world war was not beneficial to the Soviet Union.”
In other words, it was the US that initially threatened the Kremlin with a nuclear first strike policy.
The document also appears to suggest interference in Russia’s forthcoming elections:
“With the 2018 Russian presidential elections, watch for a fourth-term bid by Putin, then look for possible changes to allow more. How to start thinking about it — be deviant and do not forget the old ways. The key is creating a strategy of one’s own, not an ‘anything but’ strategy as Russia appears to have. It will be reactive to a degree, but should focus on putting Putin off balance, without becoming too defensive…
The US and the West need to determine what they want Russia to look like, how they want it to behave and if they care if Vladimir Putin is president.”
Noting that one potential strategy is to “dethrone Putin” through a covert political campaign, rather than any overt intervention, the US Army study remarks that this strategy has already been executed in “fits” and “starts” by the US and, intriguingly, other Western countries:
“There must be an understanding that some countries may suffer as a result of our actions. Putin is rational and he isn’t weak… yet. We should be ready to strike when that time comes, and it is coming.”
Recently declassified Soviet papers, articles, and meeting minutes indicate that the Soviet leadership had no intention of invading Europe. That is contrary, it should be remembered, to the official state propaganda, parroted dutifully by the Western press.
Russia is also “paranoid about a surprise attack from NATO or the US”, a fear which stems from “the German invasion of western Russia during Operation Barbarossa” as well as “US and NATO operations in the Caucuses and the Middle East.”
Professor Marcello Ferrada de Noli, publisher, Geopolitical Magazine The Indicter:
“The theory of Russian involvement in the incident has several logical faults. British spy Skrypal has been exposed, already pardoned, allowed to go abroad, and he did not pose any danger – not any longer – to Russian national security. Even considering – only for the argumentation’s sake – Prime Minister May’s assumption that Russia would have wished to get rid of British spy Skripal, it appears absurd that Russia would have preferred ‘to send a hit squad to England’ and risk a major international incident, instead of punishing him quietly while he was under custody in Russian territory.”
Helga Zepp-LaRouche, German Civil Rights Movement, Solidarity:
“The assassination attempt (Skripals) might in reality be “the dirty tricks” by the UK intelligence agencies, aimed at discrediting Russia. This incident seemed like the intelligence service’s fabricating another Litvinenko case as a pretext for another anti-Russia escalation.”
British Medical Journal UCL:
There have been an estimated 120,000 excess deaths since 2010, because of the government’s austerity policies. It will need £6.3bn of funding to close the gap caused by austerity.
UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities:
The organisation, last year (2017), accused the UK government of creating a society where people with disabilities are viewed as parasites, living off tax-payers money and warned the UK about fostering these attitudes.
77th BRIGAGE (very Nazi sounding name)
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/secretive-77th-brigade/
most interesting are the comments at the bottom of the article.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/inside-the-77th-brigade-britains-information-warfare-military
Conde Nasty article so red light warning
https://www.army.mod.uk/who-we-are/formations-divisions-brigades/force-troops-command/77-brigade/groups/
Possibly got the idea from the Hitler Youth movement, ie IQ of a 14-18 year old.
Interesting – some of the comments are in Vietnamese.
I’m still being prevented from posting on my usual device.
So I think we can assume the scenario I put forth, that Sergei was active for Russia, P&B were couriers, Sergei had a network within MI6 and PD is correct.
Patrick.
I don’t assume your scenario.
In previous threads, I posted links to early (March) bits of info indicating Skripal was a retiree with dated knowledge of GRU. He spent his time playing computer games “The World of Tanks”, popular in the former Soviet Union.
As for P&B, they were likely business couriers. I posted my theory about them in a comment which is now far below.
Has anyone heard anything regarding Dawns Inquest?
Thanks Rob for your excellent analysis over the last ten months. Always an interesting read from yourself and the comments.
Of all the many contradictions and back pedalling by the Met and media .. the Boris Johnson big fat lie does take some beating . This Skwaukbox video shows the German tv interview plus the BBC then covering up for Johnson. https://videos.files.wordpress.com/JZAjR3jn/johnson-bbc-cover-up-smoking-gun_hd.mp4
Runner up spot goes to Panorama for the way it ‘glossed over’ the City Stay Hotel . Perhaps the single most important aspect of the whole Psyop . And the BBC raced past it as though it was merely a minor detail.
And third place must go to Eliot Higgins of Belingcat for keeping a straight face in front of camera after producing that unsourced , unverified , nigh on unreadable report just at a point in time when it was most needed. Bravo.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/novichok-victim-sergei-skripal-heartbroken-13851640
Mirror, 13 Jan 2019
Salisbury novichok victim Sergei Skripal ‘heartbroken’ he’s unable to visit wife’s grave
………………………………………………………
Mirror asks no questions as to why Sergei Skripal does not call his 90-year mother.
According to The Telegraph, Sergei and Yulia have been in touch with their friends and relatives.
Also, nothing in the article explains how the reporter knows this about Sergei. Did the reporter talk to Sergei directly? Or was this information passed on to the reporter from someome else? If so, whom what this someone else?
And the most obvious question that the article fails to address is: Why can’t Sergei and/or Yulia visit the grave? What is stopping him and/or her?
Actually, the sub-headline clearly states what some of us suspect (including the Russian Embassy): that Sergei and/or Yulia are being help against their will.
“EXCLUSIVE: Former spy Sergei, who is being held at a top secret location…”
You would not use the term “is being held” to describe someone who is there of their own free will. The verb implies that someone is doing the holding.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190114004829/https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/novichok-victim-sergei-skripal-heartbroken-13851640
Yes, the sub-headline is revealing: “EXCLUSIVE: Former spy Sergei, who is being held at a top secret location…”
It seems that the author of Mirror’s text is not a Mirror journalist but one of the handlers of the Skripal case. Who could say about Skripal that he “is being held”? The one who knows how things are.
It is interesting that Mirror’s article conflicts The Telegraph’s recent story. Some excerpts from The Telegraph’s story:
“Far from being cut off entirely from her former life, Yulia has remained in touch with certain close friends who refuse to divulge a shred of information about her. A few, both British and Russian, are understood to have visited her in the summer.”
Mr Urban said that while they continue to be protected, they are also free to move about.
“I’m not sure they can simply decide to eat out of see a film on a whim. But equally, I believe they have been able to move about a fair bit,” he said.
“None of the experts consulted by the Telegraph believe that the Skripals are in great danger.”
“Experts also agree that the agents looking after them will take their wishes seriously and want them to feel happy and comfortable.
“They were placed in this programme for personal protection and it is about creating a balance between safety and ensuring that they can lead normal lives,” Mr Ingram added.”
…………………………………………………………………………………….
If The Telegraph’s story was true, there would have been no problem for the security agents to drive Sergei and Yulia to the Salisbury cemetery for a brief visit.
Well last night we had a vote of No Confidence in the government and that was carried.
Tonight we had a vote of whether MP’s want to lose there jobs and that was defeated
There is less than ten weeks until we leave the UK, 6 weeks of Parliamentary time. Even if they decide to work every day, which they won’t because they don’t give a damn (MP’s) they will not get a deal with the EU. The EU don’t want a deal. The EU don’t want the UK to leave the EU, we are a very important Cash Cow.
It is not possible to get a deal if both sides don’t agree, that’s how deals works.
Give them another 6 months, they won’t agree. They have had 3 years, they can’t agree, an agreement is not possible. that has been proved beyond doubt.
The British people have voted to leave.
There is no other option.
The day after, if the EU want to do a new deal then get on with it. If the UK don’t like their demands there will be no deal.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2777248/more-decontamination-work-at-amesburys-muggleton-road/
More decontamination work at Amesbury’s Muggleton Road
SpireFM, 8 January 2019:
“We’re told the clean-up inside the flat has now been completed by specialist military personnel.
There’s now some exterior work to do on a bike/bin store.
…It’s expected that the work should be finished by Friday (11th January)…
…There’s also decontamination work still being undertaken at Sergei Skripal’s home in Christie Miller Road in Salisbury.
The latest phase of that is to remove the roof of the property and get it replaced.”
………………………………………….
So, Charlie’s flat, where “Novichok” had been allegedly sprayed, was successfully cleaned-up. Why no clean-up for Bailey’s house?
To Miheila
Just finished reading the Larouche article and would like to point out one error they made. Last year Walter Litvinenko stated on RT that he had originally thought Russia was responsible for the murder of his son, but he was suspicious of the British secrecy surrounding his son’s death so made his own investigations. Walter is a doctor, so has an IQ above that of a five year old. He now believes the British state are responsible for his son’s death.
Desparately trying still to find ” evidence”
Brazen lies from start to finish. The BBC are excelling themselves as the world’s top disinformation pedlars.
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-wiltshire-46890139
So apparently Nick Bailey (unaccountably no longer a brave hero) has recovered sufficienly to get back to work. Of course, we’re not told where he’s based, and we’re expected to believe this news. Seeing that just about every statement is this article is repeat of previous lies, a cheap and so predictable rehash of the official narrative, how can we be expected to believe this statement about Bailey?
“He’s doing very well and we look forward to working with him,” he said.
“He’s making a good recovery – but I suspect the mental recovery will be longer, as it would for any of us who were exposed to something as horrific as that.
“He will be given all the support he needs.”
If he’s not fully mentally recovered is he fit to be working in the police force? But anyway, it’s another excuse to keep the Big Lie alive, and that I suspect is the real purpose of the article.
This FoIR has been delayed because the issue of “Ongoing Investigation” has to be thought about for another month before they can decide to give the information or refuse it
Dear Metropolitan Police Service (MPS),
Actions of DS Nick Bailey on the 4th March 2018 (Salisbury Incident)
[I realise that Wiltshire Constabulary were involved in the management of
this in the very early stages but it appears the Met have taken complete
ownership of the matter, I therefore address the enquiry to you]
The public have been given a good deal of information by the police
through official statements and media briefings about the involvement of
DS Bailey on the 4th March, it is clear the police want the public to know
what he did, when and why.
I certainly am interested to know. Sadly however many of the police
statements released regarding DS Bailey are contradictory, conflicting and
irreconcilable.
The statements set up confusion in the public’s understanding of events
and I can find no corrections or clarifications of the facts. This FoIR is
intended to give me (and hopefully others) a clearer understanding of what
actually happened that day regarding events which involved Bailey.
On top of the confusing police accounts there have been many other
“informed descriptions” of what transpired some from those who claimed
access to police “sources” (eg BBC’s Panorama program and Mark Urban’s
book – The Skripal Files), there are other media inputs and even Nick
Bailey’s own account.
I shall not list all the conflicting versions of events here, there are
too many but I do ask for confirmation of specific information regarding
DS Baileys activities. The information I understand is available from
various sources including CCTV, body worn cameras, reports, statements and
witness evidence.
1. i) What time did Bailey go on duty that day? ii) What time was his
shift due to end, iii) What time did he go off duty?
2. i) When did become aware of the incident in the Maltings, ii) Why did
he attend? (Was he detailed or was it an act of initiative?)
3. Did anyone accompany him, if so how many and rank(s)?
4. At the bench scene, what did Bailey and / or his colleague(s) do?
5. Witness accounts say before the 4:15pm call was made to the emergency
services (by a concerned member of the public) there were already police
officers at the scene. Is this true and if so how many and rank(s)?
6. In a publicly aired CCTV recording taken within Market Walk (from
Jenny’s Restaurant) we see a police car moving towards the scene. i) Was
this PC’s Holloway and Collins arriving? ii) Was Bailey already present at
the scene when these two arrived? iii) Was the police car in Market Walk
caught on CCTV at 4:15pm? (it was reported as such).
7. It was also reported that police were present at the Skripal home at
5pm i) Is this true, if so how many police officers were present (during
that afternoon/evening /night) and rank(s)? ii) Was Bailey one of these
officers? iii) If there was a police presence at the Skripal home at 5pm
why were they there and iv) What did they do?
8. i) At what time did Bailey attend the Skripal home, ii) What was his
purpose for being there, iii) Did he (or anyone) have a warrant to enter
the property?
9) i) Who else attended the Christie Miller Rd. scene with Bailey numbers
and rank(s)? ii) Was the time he attended after his normal shift time?
iii) If on overtime why did Bailey attend?
10. i) What activities took place in the Skripal home, ii) By what route
was entry gained? iii) Were Mr Skripal’s house keys used to gain access?
(how, where, when and why were these keys obtained) iv) How many officers
entered the property? v) At what time did Bailey leave the Skripal home
11. Please give a detailed timeline of what Bailey did next, from leaving
the Skripal residence, going to the police station, going to Salisbury and
District Hospital for the Decontamination Process, returning home,
becoming ill, returning to the hospital. Everything he did, everywhere he
went and times and mode(s) of transport.
12. i) Did PC’s Holloway and Collins go to the hospital for the
decontamination process, ii) What did the decontamination process entail?
iii) How long did it last? iv) What tests were done to give the all clear?
v) Did all police officers from the bench and house scenes go for
decontamination? vi) Had any of those officers been to their homes first?
And if so vii) What decontamination precautions were put into effect?
The police have recognised that this matter is of immense public interest
and concern, it is therefore vital that any misconceptions, ambiguities
and inaccuracies that are in the public perceptions are dealt with
transparently and with utmost honestly.
Yes, Peter, very important questions.
Why the secrecy about the answers ?
And more non-news of the same dubious quality – this time an exclusive from the Daily Mirror. Posted a few days late because it has zero credibility as reliable news. Short, cloyingly sentimental and a pack of lies.
A friend said: “Sergei loved spending time with his loved ones – he’ll be heartbroken he can’t go back.”
Oh really? A friend of the ‘journalist’, Adam Aspinall, maybe? He forgot to specify… but who cares? No matter, as long it keeps the Big Lie rumbling on…
And more non-news of the same dubious quality – this time an ‘exclusive’ courtesy of the Daily Mirror. Posted a few days late because it has zero credibility as reliable news. Short, cloyingly sentimental and a pack of lies.
A friend said: “Sergei loved spending time with his loved ones – he’ll be heartbroken he can’t go back.”
Oh really? A friend of the ‘journalist’, Adam Aspinall, maybe? He forgot to specify… but who cares? No matter, as long it keeps the Big Lie rumbling on…
In the BBC piece : “I suspect the mental recovery will be longer, as it would for any of us who were exposed to something as horrific as that.”
I suspect they fear that Bailey inadvertently drops a piece of truth and they want to have the resource to make his mental state responsible.
I wonder what exactly he was traumatised by, so much so that he needed 10 months off work? Have I missed something? It’s not as if he was attacked by someone. And many, many people get very seriously ill every year, some of whom have near death experiences, and are still back in work sooner. Being a copper, I expect he was pretty mentally resilient. And no doubt he’s been given priority psychological help. Maybe it wasn’t the health impact that he was traumatised by…
First you see it, then you don’t. It’s gone (error 404):
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46890139
google cache:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9vab6EaAlCUJ:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46874361+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b
Ah but it’s been replaced by:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46874361
Looks the same, reads the same (there’s not much text) …
What did I say about IQ of a five year old
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071690/gibraltar-news-spain-uk-defence-gavin-williamson-paintball-spanish-ships
So the MOD call him Private Pike
What a pity. Brave little Gavin had asked Santa for a paintball gun, just so that he could be at the front when shooting started. Now the grown ups have gone and spoilt his plan.
My FoIR’s to clarify details of the Skripal case are proving quite frustrating
I have another response from the Met Police
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/actions_of_ds_nick_bailey_on_the?nocache=incoming-1294568#incoming-1294568
They are asking for more time.
I had submitted a request for CCTV footage but it was refused on cost so I submitted a simplified request that just concentrated around the bench incident.
I also submitted a request for information on DS Bailey, the decided to “aggregate” the 2 requests together as one request so they are both delayed. They are considering refusing both my requests using the exemption “Section 30 – Criminal Investigations”
New date given for a response to my two requests 12/02/2019
Peter, me again.
That was why I focused on the duck feed.
The three boys were not part of the investigation, indeed, they are now not even part of the HMG timeline.
In addition, the police showed the CCTV to Aiden’s parents, so there is no plausible deniability on their part.
The are in the hole, and they have the shovel.
The other questions we raise will not be answered as the “ongoing investigation” flag will be waved.
You are absolutely correct about the duck feeding not featuring in any criminal investigation. Have you submitted a FoIR regarding the duck feeding CCTV? They may well .have to blur the faces of the boys but Sergei and Yulia privacy would not be threatened.
Cheers for the response below on lab sample times. It of course assumes that PD had the reference signature and formula of the Novichok concerned.
Likewise the excuse of refusing my request for CCTV of the Snap Fitness couple (blonde, red bag) and Freya Church at the bench, will be difficult to explain.
I have asked to see the Snap Fitness CCTV CCTV v couple as they emerge into the Maltings, I have asked to see where they and what they did whilst in the Maltings area.
I have asked to see Freya at the bench for as long as she was there.
I cannot imagine how this might impinge on a criminal investigation
Equally my questions regarding Bailey’s activities cannot be credibly denied by the Ongoing Investigation excuse because they have already supplied much information however some of it is contradictory and has been refuted by other sources. I am just asking for an honest detailed account of Bailey’s activities that day. Why would they want to hide that?
I have submitted an FoIR to DSTL to find out where the sample(s) came from that identified Novichok as the offending poison
They refused the request on the grounds that the information is already in the public domain
But I can’t find it so I have requested an Internal Review
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/identification_of_novichok_salis#incoming-1294390
Duncan
How do I find out how long it would take to identify a specific Novichok? The OPCW indicated it can take several weeks (was this because of the transit time to the various labs?)
Peter, good for you with the FOI. My WPD complaint still remains unanswered, but I have been promised a redacted statement. This of course relates to the boys in danger at the duck feed.
I would imagine that a lab would know within a couple of days what the structure of the chemical would be, and have a senior chap sign off the report.
NMR and Mass Spectrometry would lead to results relatively soon.
If the samples were split and sent to different OPCW partner labs, then that would add weeks.
Transportation, chain of custody, protocols, etc would easily take 3 days of analytical work and report writing into a 3-4 week exercise.
To:
Defence Science and Technology Laboratory
Subject:
Internal review of Freedom of Information request – Identification of Novichok – Salisbury Incident 4th March 2018
Dear Defence Science and Technology Laboratory,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Defence Science and Technology Laboratory’s handling of my FOI request ‘Identification of Novichok – Salisbury Incident 4th March 2018’.
Your response to my FoIR does not answer my Request. I have checked through the links that you kindly provided but I am none the wiser the wiser.
I want to know where the sample(s) came from that initially identified the Nocvichok concerned. I am fully aware that the OPCW confirmed DSTL’s finding but I want to know where the original sample came from and when.
The link you provided here may give a clue to the answer but does not give me the specific answer. https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/home-secretary-statement-on-the-incident-in-salisbury
“Samples from the victims have been tested by experts at the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, who are world-renowned experts in the field. As Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley announced yesterday, that forensic analysis has revealed the presence of a nerve agent”
Identifying the presence of a Nerve Agent is very different to identifying the specific Novichok involved.
I therefore still wish to know where the sample came from, if it was from the victims was it in the form of skin swabs or blood / tissue tests. Or if it was a sample taken from an object eg chair, table, handbag, wallet, handkerchief etc or piece if clothing please let me know where the original sample(s) came from, when it was taken and when was the specific Novichok involved was identified?
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/identification_of_novichok_salis#outgoing-855196
Yours faithfully,
Peter Beswick
Hi all,
Have you seen that local Spire FM on March 7th among key locations connected to Skripals’ case also included the …Cathedral?
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2522218/salisbury-spy-believed-to-have-been-poisoned-with-nerve-agent/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxB-fzOU0AIgofU.jpg
Interesting :
Spire FM mentioned Cote Brasserie as a place of interest – its the place where Skripal usually met with Pablo Miller
“According to staff, Skripal used to meet a smart man slightly younger than him at Côte Brasserie in Salisbury, in the same area as the Mill pub and Zizzi. Skripal’s dining companion spoke Russian. There is speculation that the mystery person was Skripal’s former MI6 handler, settled locally after a long career specialising in Russia and eastern Europe.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/salisbury-poisoning-sergei-skripal-local-news-international-incident
Found by:
https://twitter.com/Kev371A/status/1085515273833189376
Will they have to demolish the cathedral?
Possibly? Give The Liquid-Gel-Spray-Gas Type Stuff time
to climb top of Spire. It’s not quite twelve months yet…….
… and then use baby wipes.
LOL
DUNCAN ! Please read page 3 :
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2019/01/ecm62dec01%28e%29.pdf
Are this the two chemicals ? WHAT IS IT ? Novichok ?
Good spot Liane,
These two classes of compounds are similar, very similar.
The first being a fluoride, the second being a fluoridate.
A fluoride would have a Fluorine atom in the molecule, normally bonded to a carbon atom, while a Fluoridate would typically be attached to a phosphorous atom.
The Novichok “family” would be in this second class, although there is still uncertainty as to the A-234 formula, although one of the formulas has a two fluorinne atoms. (according to Hoenig), one attached to a carbon atom, the other attached to a phosphorous atom. ( So that is both a fluoride and a fluorodate.)
I wondered why these compound classes, which would cover 100s of possible molecules were not banned earlier.
Many would be commercial organophosphate type pesticides, so maybe that is why these classes are now in the OPCW list.
In other words, if the world’s most dangerous nerve agent is in one of these two classes, then it can only be a banned substance if we ban it, and put it on our list.
1. Proposed text:
P-Alkyl (H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) N-(1-(dialkyl(≤ C10, incl.
cycloalkyl)amino))alkylidene(H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) phosphoramidic flourides
and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts
e.g., N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene)-P-decylphosphonamidic fluoride
No known CAS Number
2. Proposed text:
O-alkyl (H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) N-(1-(dialkyl(≤ C10, incl.
cycloalkyl)amino))alkylidene(H or ≤ C10, incl. cycloalkyl) phosphoramidofluoridates
and corresponding alkylated or protonated salts
e.g., O-n-decyl N-(1-(di-n-decylamino)-n-decylidene) phosphoramidofluoridate
Given that two compounds are mentioned, and two incidents listed, might it be inferred that one compound was found at the first incident and that other compound was found at the second incident? (This wouldn’t necessarily preclude both compounds having been found in Salisbury.)
And could this be (one of) the reason(s) why there’s ‘insufficient evidence’ to charge PnB for the Amesbury incident? Insufficient, as in ‘conflicting’.
I wonder how Dawn’s inquest is going …
These are not two compounds.
They are chemical class of compounds with carbon atoms of 10 or less.
In total these are many compounds.
< 10 is the meaning. My phone does not have the "equal to, or less than" symbol.
Sorry, Duncan, I’m no scientist and when I wrote ‘compound’, that’s not the right word.
I meant that two similar but different proposed texts were listed, one for the the fluoride and the other for the fluoridate; so I probably should have written ‘classes’. Would that make more sense?
Nothing to do with the 10 at all. Maybe what I was trying to ask was whether both classes might have been included in one substance?
I think the document might be a forgery. There are some mistakes in it. I will write more later.
I don’t think the document was written by a chemist. It is too sloppy.
In “1. Proposed text” fluoride has been mis-spelt as flouride. This is a very common mistake by non-chemists.
In “2. Proposed text” C10 should be C(subscript)10.
Perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised. The OPCW is probably more a political organization than a scientific one.
Duncan,
“… a Fluoridate would typically be attached to a phosphorous atom”.
I don’t agree with this. I think a fluoridate would be fluorine plus oxygen, analogous to a chlorate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorate
No.
Chlorate as in NaCl03 is ionic.
Sodium Chlorate.
Fluorine has the same valanency as Chlorine and the othe halogens.
Fluorine is too small an atom to exist as FO3 ( Single negative charge) as a stable anion.
OPCW in this context are referring to organic compounds containing P, O, and F atoms.
So Russia’s description is correct?
http://tass.com/politics/1039903
“Thus, Russia objects against the three nations’ proposal to “put under control not the entire spectrum of toxic agents developed and patented in many member nations of the convention, including those called ‘Novichok’ in the West, but only two families of agents illustrated by abstract chemical compounds, which may not exist at all.”
Thanks, Duncan,
I had already posted this :
NIST 98 for a chemical with formula
C8H18FN2O2P named as N-(O-ethyl-fluorophosphoryl)-N’-N’-diethyl-acetamidine,
with NIST number 226889.
As Rybalchenko notes, this molecular structure corresponds to A-234.
The record submitted by Edgewood for a compound with formula C8H18FN2O2P no longer exists in the current version of the NIST Mass Spectral Library.
I´m not a chemist, but what strikes me is that A-234 has C8 but the listed formula has C10.
Any explanation ?
It’s even in Wikimedia Commons:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A-234_Nerve_Agent.jpg
Liane,
Is the document fake?
I couldn’t find it on the OPCW site.
As has been pointed out, you would think the Fluorine would be spelled correctly.
Duncan, it´s no fake. You find the document on OPCW official site here :
https://www.opcw.org/resources/documents/executive-council/EC-M-62
Thanks Liane,
It looks as though the latest version has corrected the typo.
First version had “Flouro” this new one has “Fluoro”
That would normally mean the doc should get a revision number, but why would we expect that of an large organisation like OPCW?
I think when I was earlier looking at the site for what you found earlier, the misspelled version had been withdrawn. Now the correctly spelled on is accessible on their site.
Thanks
“the misspelled version had been withdrawn. Now the correctly spelled one is accessible on their site”.
The OPCW must be reading this blog!
https://truepublica.org.uk/united-kingdom/which-war-torn-city-in-a-third-world-country-was-this-man-starving-to-death-in/
The answer – Birkenhead, England, Christmas Eve, 2018.
Conservatives Building A Country That Works For Everyone!
Pure Evil…………………….
Poor man, a variant on I, Daniel Blake in real time.
The OPCW acting to ban “The Soviet Era Nerve Agent Agent “Novichok”“ is a good joke for those who know what that “Novichok” is. Others probably need explanation to get the joke (and then may not find the ‘joke’ that funny). I will chance explaining (Caution: Liberated women with fragile intellectual constitutions should maybe not read…), which explanation may become convoluted and boring.
To begin we have to go back to before “Novichok” and to a land far away, in the region mariners’ maps used to warn there “be monsters”. This is America, and the mariners were not wrong, only ahead of their time. In America, in a state called New Jersey, near a city and a university called Princeton, is a chemical weapons development facility called Edgewood Arsenal. In that facility, in the 1990s, researchers developed an organophosphate series designated A230s. One, A234, was compounded with a fluoro- component and proved extremely deadly and dangerous. Fortunately, another, compounded with a methyl- component is less dangerous, but equivalent, sort of as pigs and people may be for physical testings. Most use the methyl- variant for testing, as most use pigs instead of people for potentially fatal testing,since with fatalities your choice is to eat or not eat, instead of how to dispose of the body (for non-cannibals). The researchers, not being vicious-minded, duly registered their A234 discovery in the NIST database.
Then testing disclosed a flaw in the new-discovered potential doomsday chem-weapon. The stuff is extremely hygroscopic. It absorbs moisture from the atmosphere, and for natural inclination to stability, readily, nay, even eagerly, combines with the moisture to make itself more comfortable in its environment, which is called degeneration by the vicious-minded, and a flaw by militarists amongst those, who had seen the stuff to have battlefield-clearing potential. The hygroscopy and rapid degeneration were proofed by Iranian scientists, who take interest in such things, having been used for field-testing of Western Government developed chemical weapons and delivery systems, back in the Iran-Iraq war era, when Saddam was a ‘friend’ to Western Governments, who saw his willingness to mass murder Iranians and Kurds as an asset and testing opportunity (the West’s biggest worry in attacking Saddam the first time, in the 1990s was that he might not have used up all they had supplied him to test). Note that A234 was never tested against Iranians, it was not invented until after relations had soured between the West and Saddam. The Iranians’ tests showed that even delivered in binary form, the two stable parts combined in the shell or rocket just before delivery, even in the low humidity of the inland Middle East the stuff would absorb atmospheric moisture and break down too quick to be a serious threat. Yes, the real A234, or any other of the A230s, if someone slopped some on your doorknob, would, on any day anywhere in Britain, where humidity never gets below about thirty percent, would have an effective half-life of about eight seconds, and, if you were quick enough in that time, could be neutralised with a baby-wipe. But that is the real stuff. We go now from the real to the Government Narrative varieties. We might return to one of the real varieties, if this goes on to the Market Walk bench, where a real A230 variant was, apparently, used, and, kept protected from the ambient humidity by enclosure in an apparently self-closing portfolio-bag, remained effective, in mixed form, for about a half hour after the mixing, so that it was able to take down an evidence-inquisitive police investigator, as well as its intended target, and the target’s daughter, who was not there in the planners’ pre-strike planning. Ah well, of mice and men, as the saying goes, but the planners, apparently thinking of themselves as ‘spooks’, or maybe as ‘gods’, apparently did not think of themselves as in either of those categories.
While the non-vicious-minded went on to other things the vicious-minded, looking with chagrin at the there-but-for- A230s shifted their thinking: Worthless for battlefields, yes,, but for assassination? Hey, could be perfect! Eight seconds to administer, maybe eighty or a hundred to take effect, the over-shoot is a neutral, non-toxic, something you could clean up with baby-wipes, and that only an expert, and only one familiar with the compounds, could correlate… Testing showed reality a little short of the dream, as it usually does, but still in the “doable” range. Recognizable residuals. The stuff would be recognizable, especially after the NIST listing let the cat out, and some fumbling trying to put it back in ‘roused suspicions.
“Fortunately”, right next door to Edgewood, at Princeton, they had an URP, s ‘Useful Russian Puppet’, a Russian scientist named Mirzyanov who had been lured West and given a comfortalbe positiion, a cushy job at a good salary and a comfortable lifestyle at Princeton. It was time for him to show some ‘gratitude’. He could write a book assigning the Edgewood Arsenal researchers to have been Russians. Let that settle around for a couple of years, with the book settling on shelves and gathering dust, to be pulled down when referenced, and signatures left by A230 ‘deployments’ could be cross-assigned, and would carry blame away in the new direction as well: Even if the ‘deployment’ could not be assigned to Russians, they would be the ones who had ‘lost control’ of the stuff. Wouldn’t even be hard-blame, since they could blame it on the old Soviet Union, and put the loss of control to the chaos of ‘90‘s, the years of tumult and unrest… Really, you would think the present day Russians would hardly object; they could merely shrug and say, “ Da, those days; things happened…”
And so Mirzyanov was assigned to write a fairytale. About a fairytale … well, one could hardly call it A234, since that designation had a history…
Was Mirzyanov assigned to give the unreal, the fairytale A230s, especially A234, he wrote of being developed in the Soviet Union, a catchy name? Or was that his own idea? A groped for appellation, or a flash of exuberant imagination? Perhaps drawn by Mirzyanov from his own experience, being a ‘novichok’ at writing fiction…
It doesn’t really matter; it is not really important. What is important is that from Mirzyanov’s book a “Novichok” was born. The first “Novichok” in the current series. A child of Edgewood Arsenal research, blamed on ‘now deceased’ Soviet parents, to re-direct responsibility, and blame, in deployment situations, when the child caused trouble, as such a child inevitably would.
And so, today, we have had the OPCW banning the “Novichok” Mirzyanov invented for his fairytale. Not the real A230s, or even the real A234, which may still not be on the ban list.
The joke is not that funny? Well,, think of a parallel, for example, if someone wrote a book assigning the Jack of Jack and the Beanstalk to have climbed up to Cloud-Monster Land and irritated the Giant again, so the Giant reached to take a swipe at him as he parachuted back down to Earth, and the Giant, missing Jack, smacking the MH-17 airliner, smashing it down like as if it had been hit by a missile, his claw-like fingernails poking the through-holes that look like cannon-fire penetrations (that embarrass the BUK theory). And then think of the Dutch JIP, overseeing the investigation, banning Giants form living in the clouds, or maybe banning Jacks from planting beans, or maybe from climbing more than three meters high up them. It is one better than dragging a red-herring across the scene, it is dragging a fairytale red-herring across a fairytale version, and the fairytale version a fabricated narration.
More than that, the dragging does nothing. It has no effect on the other “Novichok” versions. The paint-quality non-binary “Novichok” “tagged” on the door-handle, or example, found pristine by the OPCW weeks after the “taggers” sprayed it, or the evidenced binary “Novichok” from that door-handle that Yulia’s blood evidenced was still finding its way together when it knocked her off her pins at the bench, the more mature and together “Novichok” that knocked down Sergei, or the “Novichok” that stalked DS Nick Bailey until it saw its opportunity to strike him down, or the ancient binary “Novichok” that Charlie combined to knock down himself and Dawn, or the poltergeist “Novichok” that haunted Salisbury for months, infesting police cars, vans, ambulances and on and on, or the new poltergeist “Novichok” the authorities think they have cornered at last in Sergei Skripal’s attic, that they are having to remove the roof to, they hope, exorcise out…
I used to work in the chemical manufacturing division of a large U.S photographic company. I’ve been retired for 17 years so I guess this incident happened close to the millennium. An accident occurred in our pilot plant resulting in the release of organophosphates,
A point of interest is that everyone involved was, over the next 12 months made redundant. The safety officer, who if you cut him open would have had the company name stamped through him like a stick of Blackpool rock, said at his leaving speech to never ever trust this company.
The pilot plant was an area I very seldom worked in, however on one occasion a colleague and I had reason to go there, I casually asked the pilot plant manager, how’s the organophosphate case going? Well his body language spoke a thousand words.
Could it be? that CW pre-cursors were being manufactured here in the UK with perfect plausible deniability?
If your companied exported to Iraq or Syria, yes. Or just did organophosphate chemicals for any market – like agriculture.
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/these-arent-the-chemical-weapons-youre-looking-for-7fcc5a826a31
All this stuff is dual use.
@ GFL
Pardon my ignorance, but could you please explain where in the manufacture and/or processing of photographic emulsions is there a requirement for the use of the chemical constituents of an organophosphate?
I worked in the North West of England for the then worlds largest photographic company, organophosphates are not used in the manufacture of photographic chemicals. To the best of my knowledge there was no diversification into the agri chem market.
What were they doing in the pilot plant? well that’s anybody’s guess, but the subsequent cover up and underhand behaviour made a lot of people very suspicious.
I’m aware of a similar case in South East England. An oil depot was demolished and houses were built on the site. One of the homeowners noticed that the worms in his garden had turned white. He had the soil analyzed and radioactive material was found. The local authority also had the soil analyzed and found nothing. The homeowner tried to sell his house but couldn’t, because of the first analysis results. It was alleged, I don’t know by whom, that the oil company had conducted experiments with radioactive material for the government during World War II. It has now all gone quiet.
If true, the Americans were doing the same thing that they were already accusing the Russians of doing with Novichok:
“By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
Tuesday 04 Feb 97 page 1
Russia is producing a new generation of deadly chemical weapons using materials, methods and technology that circumvent the terms of a treaty it signed outlawing such weapons.
Under a program code-named “Foliant,” a Russian scientific research organization has created a highly lethal nerve agent called A-232, large quantities of which could be made “within weeks” through covert production facilities, according to a classified Pentagon intelligence report.
(…)
“Because of their concern that CWC inspectors would discover the activity, the Russians probably would not try to covertly produce the new agents at a declared chemical weapons production facility,” the report says.
“Covert production at an undeclared facility therefore is the most likely scenario for accumulating a stockpile of these weapons. …”
(…)
“By using chemicals not specified in the CWC schedules, the Russians can produce A-232 and its ethyl analog A-234, in unitary and binary forms within several chemical complexes,” the report says.
(…)
Several pesticide plants “offer easy potential for covert production,” the report says. “For example, substituting amines for ammonia and making other slight modifications in the process would result in new agents instead of pesticide. The similarity in the chemistry of these compounds would make treaty monitoring, inspection, and verification difficult.” ”
https://web.archive.org/web/20021126132343/https://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/1997/msg00043c.htm
The classified Pentagon intelligence report that’s mentioned was apparently publicised in order to stop the USA from signing Chemical Weapons Convention’s (CWC), with an argument like ‘Russia isn’t following the rules, so why should we?’ :
“A Pentagon official familiar with the report said it could undermine the treaty-ratification effort. “It clearly shows the Russians are circumventing the treaty,” the official said.”
The leak of info and Gertz article read a lot like smoke raised for the same obfuscation and re-direction campaign. A common CIA mode of operation, using tame, or pet, journalist (cf. ‘Project Mockingbird’), and especially suspect in the chronological context: 1997 would be the time frame in which the A230s were developed (NIST listed 1998) and, with their potentials being recognized, when some sleight-of-attrib ution would be ‘appropriate’ to get them from lab to field by circuitous means to avoid blame for the not exactly legal, if not actually illegal, developing. Aso the ‘Open Russia’ of 1997 would be unlikely to have been carrying on a clandestine development operation, if for no other reasons, for national disorganization, with innumerable factions going their own anarchic directions, the national currency collapsed and scientist, where not laid off and sent home for their facilities being sold away, were often not getting paid, or getting ‘barter’ goods in lieu of payment.
Evangelista, what about Uglev´s statements ?
There is this
https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2018/03/21/unknown-newcomer-novichok-was-long-known-a1596490
“In Russia, Lev Fedorov, with whom Mirzayanov had a fierce argument by then, benefited from the open atmosphere that had arisen under Boris Yeltsin. As a kind of spin-off from his historiography, he reported on GOSNIIOKhT and revealed (in 1993) the structure of the Russian VX. His work was quoted in Western professional magazines and it became clear that institutions such as Edgewood had been investigating the Russian VX quickly and openly. The decisive factor must have been that the Russian VX is not very different from the American VX- and is also less toxic.“
https://www.rt.com/news/424597-russia-opcw-a234-novichok-convention/
Russian statement:
“It was only in 2008 that the scientist cooperated with the Edgewood Chemical Biological Center of the US army to release a new publication. This new edition of the book first mentioned a formula for the substance “that fully corresponded to the special data presented” by Edgewood. “A legitimate question arises: if he knew all of that, why had he not written before? The answer is obvious: working only in technical support of research, he did not have the knowledge in the field of real research,” the Russian mission said, suggesting that it was the Edgewood center that provided Mirzayanov with the formula.”
The stuff North Korea used on Kim Yong Nam was hardly imported from the US but produced by themselves.
Nevertheless, it was called VX, and OPCW was not called.
In Salisbury, it was called “of a type developed by Russia” and “Novichok” and OPCW was called.
Truth was of course, anybody could have produced it.
So why did the US publish the formula but supress its mention at the same time?
Liane,
I discount Uglev, ignoring his inputs. He runs a bit to the fanatical for antagonism, which leads to prejudice, which leads to exaggeration, which leads to unreliability, which inclines the cautious to caution. His statement about washing with sulfuric acid to save his life after an exposure sounds unlikely. Acid is not uncommon for antisepsis, boric acid was one of the first, but sulfuric? It is common, found in batteries, even natural, being produced by vulcanism, but available readily in a lab for instant splash-on to disinfect? I am skeptical.
Also the serial problems leading to death that Uglev ascribed carrying off his colleague sounds more like AIDS in the era of reference, than A230 series, or other, organic poisons effects.
You are of course right. Their propaganda hit Salesbury back when the chemical formula the Skripals were attacked with was named “Novichok” and all the years of disinformation on the substance that had been researched in many places exploded on how dangerous it might be for people in Salisbury. With chemists talking about many different things but neither OPCW nor Porton Down disclosing anything.
It is completely irresponsible and scandalous.
Why was Porton Down not required to publicly state the characteristics of the chemistry they found – that would not necessitate the publishing of the formula.
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/royal-marines-launch-novichok-response-2426690
“5 Commando’s Zulu Company will now respond to chemical, biological and radiological attacks on UL soil as well as abroad.
Following the attack on Sergei Skripal and his daughter, which left one person dead and has seen a whole house demolished to eradicate the poison, Royal Marines have been given training at the Defence Chemical Biological Radiological Nuclear Centre at Westdown Camp on Salisbury Plain in Wiltshire.
This included simulated training in a mock village environment for the Marines, part of Plymouth-based 3 Commando.”
??
more ??
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/novichok-poisonings-leaked-document-shows-1768098
“A health expert warned doctors across the southern counties of England about the dangers of the Novichok nerve agent just days before the death of Dawn Sturgess, according to a report about a leaked document . “
I’ve worked it out. Everybody knows that to a comedian, timing is everything. So, the obvious conclusion, given the strict adherence to timing that is being given to these various assorted incidents, we have to conclude that the narrative is being written by comedians.
The symptoms they describe in the above article are the symptoms of VX.
http://www.rnceus.com/biovg/catab2.html
And indeed VX was suspected on March 7
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/06/russian-spy-may-have-targeted-deadly-nerve-agent-experts-claim/
And VX is binary and was used in the attack on Kim Yong Nam.
This here is Uglev
https://thebell.io/en/the-scientist-who-developed-novichok-doses-ranged-from-20-grams-to-several-kilos/
“– For what purpose were the chemical agents developed?
– This fell under the “Foliant” program which was ordered by the Ministry of Defense. The agents were designed as alternative to the Soviet analogy of the American nerve agent, VX.”
—
– It’s unlikely to be confused with VX, but with Zoman and Zarin (nerve paralyzing gases – The Bell), it’s possible, but only before the laboratory investigation has begun. The chemical agents in our, as you called it, series, are extremely tenacious.
Important article. Covers II, Steele and the Skripal hoaxin some detail.
https://larouchepac.com/20190110/part-i-british-role-coup-against-president-now-exposed-will-you-act-now-save-nation?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20190115-3%20part%20series&utm_content=20190115-3%20part%20series+Version+A+CID_6f516ba2d585a09e71730970b68445dc&utm_source=CampaignMonitorEmail&utm_term=UK%20foreign%20policy%20in%20a%20shifting%20world%20order
Written from a US angle, it includes:
Part I: The British Role in the Coup Against the President Is Now Exposed. Will You Act Now to Save the Nation?
Part II: The Integrity Initiative’s Foreign Agents of Influence Invade the United States
Part III: A British Intelligence Fraud Creates the Coup Against Donald Trump
Reply to Jo
Cold War and Covert Action: The United States and Syria, 1945-1958
Professor Douglas Little, Clark University History:
In late 1945, the Arabian American Oil Company (ARAMCO) announced plans to construct the Trans-Arabian Pipe Line (TAPLINE) from Saudi Arabia to the Mediterranean. With US help, ARAMCO secured rights-of-way from Lebanon, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
The Syrian right-of-way was stalled in parliament. In other words, Syria was the sole holdout for the lucrative oil pipeline. More importantly, Syria also had control of one of the main oil arteries of the Middle East, the pipeline which connected pro-western Iraq’s oilfields to Turkey.
As early as 1949, this newly independent Arab republic was an important staging ground for the CIA’s earliest experiments in covert action. The CIA secretly encouraged a right-wing military coup in 1949, a mere 3 years after Syrian independence. Recently declassified records confirm that beginning on November 30, 1948, CIA operative Stephen Meade met secretly with Colonel Zaim at least six times to discuss the possibility of an army supported dictatorship.
In 1957, Harold Macmillan, Conservative prime minister, and President Dwight Eisenhower agreed to launch regime change again in Syria. The plan called for the funding of a “Free Syria Committee” and the arming of “political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities” within Syria. The CIA and MI6 would instigate internal uprisings, for instance by the Druze [a Shia Muslim sect] in the south, help to free political prisoners held in the Mezze prison, and stir up the Muslim Brotherhood in Damascus.
Once the necessary degree of fear had been created, frontier incidents and border clashes would be staged to provide a pretext for Iraqi and Jordanian military intervention. Syria had to be made to appear as the sponsor of plots, sabotage and violence directed against neighbouring governments. The CIA and SIS should use their capabilities in both the psychological and action fields to augment tension.
The coup plot was discovered and stopped. On 12th August 1957 the Syrian army surrounded the US embassy in Damascus, expelled three US diplomats and CIA agents, arrested their accomplices and placed the US embassy under surveillance.
Dennis Kucinich, former US Representative, 10th April 2017:
Newly-declassified CIA documents show that in 1983, the CIA drew up plans to pressure the Syrian government by using Iraq, Israel and Turkey as proxies:
Syria at present has a hammerlock on US interests both in Lebanon and in the Gulf. The US should consider sharply escalating the pressures against Assad [Senior] through covertly orchestrating simultaneous military threats against Syria from three border states hostile to Syria: Iraq, Israel and Turkey. Syria would also face a two-front war since it is already heavily engaged in the Bekaa, on the Golan and in maintaining control in the country.
Israel would simultaneously raise tensions along Syria’s Lebanon front without actually going to war. Turkey, angered by Syrian support to Armenian terrorism, to Iraqi Kurds on Turkey’s Kurdish border areas and to Turkish terrorists operating out of northern Syria, has often considered launching unilateral military operations against terrorist camps in northern Syria. If Israel were to increase tensions against Syria simultaneously with an Iraqi initiative, the pressures on Assad would escalate rapidly. A Turkish move would psychologically press him further.
Recently-declassified CIA documents show that in 1986, the CIA drew up plans to overthrow Syria by provoking sectarian tensions. Neoconservatives planned regime change again in 1991 and again in 2001.
In an interview on French TV, former French foreign minister Roland Dumas, told how Britain had planned covert action in Syria as early as 2009:
“I was in England two years before the violence in Syria on other business. I met with top British officials who confessed to me that they were preparing something in Syria. This was in Britain not in America. Britain was preparing gunmen to invade Syria.”
Leaked emails from the private intelligence firm Stratfor, including notes from a meeting with Pentagon officials, confirmed that as of 2011, the US and UK special forces training of Syrian opposition forces was well underway. The goal was to elicit the “collapse” of Assad’s regime “from within”.
The 2013 sarin attack in Ghouta was blamed on the Syrian government by the US, however, high-level American and Turkish officials confirmed that Turkey supplied Sarin gas to the Syrian rebels in order to blame the Syrian government and provide an excuse for invasion. The United Nations’ report on the attack did NOT blame the government, and the UN’s human rights investigator accused the rebels, rather than the Syrian government.
Looks like one of the assassins returned to the scene of the crime
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/01/12/15/8437848-6584645-image-a-68_1547307888522.jpg
(from this page https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6584645/Military-biohazard-suits-remove-windows-home-ex-spy-Sergei-Skripal-deep-clean.html )
He’s even dressed like he was in March in the image that was leaked to Liane
https://ibb.co/mt59sU
Brazen!
Was he arrested?
Nobody noticed him because he was hidden in plain sight – like the Novichok on the door handle that wasn’t discovered for two weeks.
So it might not have been the said assassins.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46874361
Sergeant Bailey back to work.
Perhaps Bailey was deemed able to resume work because he was at last able to say “pin prick pupils” without saying first “pin prick eyes”.
A bit more on the OPCW expanding their list of banned chemicals:
“The OPCW global chemical weapons watchdog will add Novichok, the Soviet-era nerve agent used in an attack last year in Salisbury, England, to its list of banned toxins after its members adopted a proposal on Monday. The 41 members of the decision-making body within the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) adopted a joint proposal by the United States, the Netherlands and Canada, member states said. They agreed “to add two families of highly toxic chemicals (incl. the agent used in Salisbury),” Canada’s ambassador to the agency, Sabine Nolke, said on Twitter.
Monday’s OPCW decision was confidential and no other details were released.”
Would this mean that Novichok was not banned, prior to being about to be banned?
To the innocent bystander, which is me, would that mean that Bad Russia did not in fact use a banned chemical weapon, because currently (and certainly in March 2108) it was not banned?
Boris and Mrs May certainly quickly identified its use.
5 victims, and sadly only Dawn as a fatality.
What possible reason is there for not disclosing these chemicals?
You have to ask who it is aimed at. Israel still uses white phosphorous in its illegal attacks on Syria – isn’t that banned? Oh, but it is OK because it is not some II-type ‘bogey-man’ doing it, it is Israel, so the MSM ignores it.
Will any OPCW regulation mean anything to the biggest law/rule breakers in the world – US/UK/Fr/Israel? As far as I can see it will only provide the law breakers with another excuse to be hypocrites.
WP is not prohibited, just its use regulated.
1980’s ‘Protocol on Prohibitions or Restrictions on the Use of Incendiary Weapons (Protocol III)’ (so far ratified by 115 countries, neither Israel nor Syria being one of them) prohibited only using incendiary weapons against civilians or civilian objects (Article 2.1) and—by air-delivered incendiaries—‘any military objective located within a concentration of civilians’ (Article 2.2). Note the latter does not abrogate Article 28 of the 1949 ‘Convention (IV) relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War’—‘The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations’—except to the extent of not using incendiary munitions.
More from the ICRC here (2009), including some comments on Israel’s use of WP in Gaza.
U.S. Army Lt. Col. Dave Grossman wrote about the elastic attitude to the Law Of Armed Conflict encouraged in training—an attitude that he disagrees with and strongly discouraged in his own charges (for practicality at least as much as morality):
(Grossman, Dave. On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society. Back Bay Books, 1995. 203–4.)
In contrast, so zealous has Britain’s observance of the LOAC been that during 1982’s Falklands War, a field hospital that conditions required siting next to ammo dumps was left unmarked (i.e. the protection of the Red Cross was not sought). The hospital did get hit by bombs, killing 5 and wounding 27—and Britain did not run around claiming Dastardly Argies were attacking hospitals. We took it on the chin.
“Incredible story of the Falklands War hospital that treated victims from both side of conflict.” Daily Mirror, 25 Mar 2012.
“Rick Jolly, British navy doctor who treated both sides in Falklands War, dies at 71.” Washington Post, 16 Jan 2018.
The second article of the protocol you link starts with:
Article 2: Protection of civilians and civilian objects
1. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make the civilian population as such, individual civilians or civilian objects the object of attack by incendiary weapons.
Yet between mid-September and November of 2018, the U.S. ‘coalition’ in Syria was accused of using white phosphorus in the city of Hijan… FOUR times!
https://www.mintpressnews.com/us-uses-banned-white-phosphorus-bombs-in-syrian-city-for-the-fourth-time-in-two-months/251537/
Brexit vote today [BBC Radio 2-DS Nick Bailey Returns Work]
Dawns Inquest tomorrow………?
TPTB Run a better Timetable than Northern Rail..So Punctual!
Indeed, the UK Telegraph reporting that he is returning to duty.
I wonder if he will return to the home where he lost everything, and if everything is still lost?
Timings figure significantly in this story Duncan!
But there is no such thing as ‘Novichok’. Far too imprecise. The word refers to a class of nerve agents (in which there are potentially several hundred), and was popularised in the West by Vil Mirzayanov – who can’t be trusted anyway.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/15/police-officer-poisoned-novichok-returns-work/
“After getting the poison chemical on his hands he returned home potentially contaminating everything inside.”
“…Despite his recovery, Mr Bailey has lost his home and all his possessions because of fear of contamination.”
Somehow, Bailey’s wife and two children turned out to be immune to the “military-grade nerve agent.”
anidea, “People who are 91 usually cannot travel”. That is incorrect, age is not a bar on air travel but only the health of the person traveling. For people who can not walk, climb stairs etc. a wheel chair and an assistant to look after can be sought for in advance. This service is available up to the seat while departing and up to the exit or to the vehicle waiting for the passenger on arrival and provided free by FSCs.
So as long as one has the health to undertake a flight, he is permitted to travel.
You also miss my point, the exercise would be to find out the lengths the UK Government would go to stop the Skripals from being spoken to by their relatives. Also why cannot Victoria or Sergei’s Mother write a letter to Sergei and Yulia c/o the Commissioner Scotland Yard, she would be obliged to deliver the letters to them under the ECHR Article 8 Right to respect for private and family life
1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
There have been two reports recently 1) the Skripals are in regular contact with friends and family and they have also visited them in the UK and 2) Grandma has not heard from Sergei from before 4th March
One or both of those statements is false
I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on why Nick would have said “the house was in darkness” in the Panorama story. It was midnight, the Skripals had left during the day. Of course there weren’t any lights on.
And why didnt he just turn some on?
Is this an attempt to make sure we believe that he was there at midnight not 5pm?
Were the torches just Panorama dramatizing the whole thing?
Do we have any evidence that he used a torch or torches?
Torches would be needed to search the roof space though.
From Panorama:
“He and two colleagues, dressed in protective suits, searched the house a few hours after Skripal and his daughter collapsed in Salisbury city centre on 4 March. “I was the first person into the house,” said Bailey. “We had to make sure that there were no other casualties. The house was in darkness. It just looked normal. There was nothing untoward.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/22/i-was-petrified-officer-poisoned-by-novichok-tells-of-emotional-battering
Not Anonymous above, Denise
“searched the house a few hours after Skripal and his daughter collapsed in Salisbury city centre” A few hours after would be around 6pm?
Neighbours could have noticed that there were no lights on at Skripal’s house around midnight.
It is likely he was not there at all.
It is possible that police did not even stay there after the first visit. It took them some time to cordon off Zizzi’s and the Mill’s pub.
And yes, they probably took the animals.
I think a lot of the Panorama drama was theatre, to make it more watchable.
However, there can be no dispute about what DSB said in the programme.
He entered the house at midnight, some 8 hours post event.
If he was allowed to watch the piece before the final edit, he may have told the producer that he switched the lights on, rather than using a torch. Maybe not, as flashlights are more dramatic.
So who were the police that were at the house at 5 pm and what were they doing there?
They just took a break to smoke cigarettes.
Rank Organisation-Pinewood [J-Arthur-Cramp-Propaganda]
BBC Twisting Sheep Melons Man………..
It may be significant that DSNB does not mention the time he entered the house. Nor does he mention any police presence at 47CMR, when he and colleagues arrived, even if those on duty had not done anything other than prevent anyone from trying to enter the building.
What he said was “We had to make sure that there were no other casualties in the house …” but a midnight visit probably couldn’t have been with any realistic hope of actually saving the lives of any other victims.
It was the Panorama script that claimed, on screen but not actually spoken, that it was ‘Around midnight’. DSNB simply says the house was in darkness (so: not daylight but it wasn’t dark at 17:00, as the post-bench cordon images show); a house with no lights on does suggest no-one was at home or that any residents had gone to bed.
None of which quite explains why, several hours after a poisoning incident, it suddenly became imperative to enter the house at a time when any other poisoned residents would have been dead. Or even long dead.
I can’t believe that Panorama did not specify midnight without DSB’s input and/or agreement.
This data point is very significant.
Lets not loose it.
Not sure it would have been DSNB who had any editorial control, Duncan, but Wilts Police (ever mindful of the Fat Controller’s DSMA) might have some final say.
Given that the BBC were the first to report that DSNB has returned to work and, given the platform afforded to them via Panorama, this seems to be tie-in of choice for Wilts Police.
I would think secret service has the final say.
They can do that via the DSMA.
Our thoughts and prayers should be with Dawn, Charlie, her family and friends particularly tomorrow because the adjourned Inquest is due to sit and Justice must be seen to be done.
However the political maelstrom that surrounds the Salisbury and Amesbury Incidents puts that in doubt.
No one has been charged in connection with Dawn’s death after 6 months even though charges have been brought over the Salisbury Incident where no one died. It has been reported that a source close to the case in the Metropolitan Police has said the reason no charges were brought in connection with Dawn and Charlie’s case is that there is Insufficient Evidence. Yet there was Sufficient Evidence in the Salisbury case.
But it’s not just the lies of the UK government and the mendacity and impotency of the police and CPS that have tainted this case but the Integrity Initiative have jumped on the bandwagon to make political capital and now the OPCW is re-writing science but keeping their re-write secret.
The repercussions of the Wiltshire Poisons are Seismic; not least because of the Brexit vote today.
The Integrity Initiative want to (have instructions to) skuttle the Nord Stream 2 European project because of US demands. If they are successful it will mean higher fuel costs for European Taxpayers. The Integrity Initiative need the UK in the EU to have most influence, the British public have already voted to come out of the EU in 6 weeks time.
Theresa May, her government and the media have turned the Wiltshire Poisonings into a Circus for their own political motives, Truth and Justice mean nothing to them.
Please let Dawn Rest In Peace and allow Charlie, her family and friends to have some closure on this traumatic episode for them but turned into a wretched farce by the people we pay to uphold the law and administer Justice.
https://medium.com/@tomsecker/was-the-integrity-initiative-behind-the-salisbury-poisoning-ad5e1269b258
“After this meeting, Donnelly recruited a new member of SGMI — Mark Andrew Laverick, a chemical and biological weapons specialist at Porton Down.”
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20090068672
Mark Andrew Laverick is a specialist for detection systems so in line with the weaponization of information warfare and OPCW.
I doubt information warfare gets mixed with in-the-field operations but possibly someone tries to coordinate.
Because security is extremely privatized nowadays I also doubt only state actors are involved.
I have suggested a couple of times that it may well be that Rus and Alex were paid indirectly by the Integrity Initiative.
HMG needed a couple of bad guys in Salisbury that weekend, what better way of making that happen than two pay for these two?
Why would they do it? Well, maybe they thought it was some sort of covert mission, either GRU sanctioned, off the books, or something else.
I think the problem started here
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/aug/31/poll-british-military-action-syria
And they had it here in April
https://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/independent-bmg-poll-almost-half-brits-back-theresa-mays-handling-salisbury-novichok-incident/
“The poll also asked Brits who they thought was responsible for the attack. Unsurprisingly, a majority (52%) said they believed the Russian state was behind the poisoning, although a high proportion, some 33%, said they were unsure. Just 6% said they believed that criminal gangs as being be”
Which is quite unimpressive considering that none of the main stream media expresses much doubt.
Public doubts may not have really until after Dawn and Charlie were poisoned, and Dawn died. That revived the interest, and it was further piqued (and how!) when PnB were named in early September.
Before that, it was probably viewed as a botched assassination attempt, with some kind of botched cover up for reasons unknown.
Please read as ‘Public doubts may not have really surfaced until after Dawn and Charlie were poisoned, and Dawn died … ‘
The BBC’s right to broadcast is based on an “An Agreement Between Her Majesty’s Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and the British Broadcasting Corporation”.
In order to retain the right to broadcast, the BBC must demonstrate its compliance with SECTION 4: IMPARTIALITY which stipulates the following:
4.4 Practices
1. Breadth and Diversity of Opinion
2. Controversial Subjects
3. News, Current Affairs and Factual Output
4. Drama, Entertainment and Culture
5. Contentious Views and Possible Offence
6. Consensus, Campaigns and Scrutiny
7. Elections and Referendums
8. Impartiality in Series and Over Time
9. Personal View Content
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/original-fake-news-bbc-and-information-research-department
The cretinous, IQ of a five year old, Gavin:
http://theduran.com/britains-real-enemy-not-russia/?mc_cid=0ceb1ec293&mc_eid=91b97c0a92
I seem to recall that there was not much of the UK located within the Arctic circle.
Russia on the other hand, seemed a bit closer from my O level Geography days.
Maybe the world has changed since then,
By the way, do you realise you are insulting 5 year olds?
Gavin..Please refer Ladybird Book-Geography.
No Pink Bits In British Control.
Marking You Down..
Gavin must stop reading Airfix Model Monthly.
Parents….See Me!
“In response to current Russian aggression, the UK has also stepped up training of its Royal Marines in Norway’s Arctic,” reported Bloomberg.
I seem to remember that, some years ago, Norway’s secret service built a facility to track Russian submarines without the knowledge or consent of the Norwegian government.
Does it work?
Obviously the blueprint for The Integrity Initiative handbook:
THE STASI
The Ministry for State Security (German: Ministerium für Staatssicherheit, MfS) or State Security Service (Staatssicherheitsdienst, SSD), commonly known as the Stasi was the official state security service of the German Democratic Republic (East Germany). It has been described as one of the most effective and repressive intelligence and secret police agencies ever to have existed. The Stasi was headquartered in East Berlin, with an extensive complex in Berlin-Lichtenberg and several smaller facilities throughout the city. The Stasi motto was Schild und Schwert der Partei (Shield and Sword of the Party), referring to the ruling Socialist Unity Party of Germany (Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands, SED) and also echoing a theme of the KGB, the Soviet counterpart and close partner, with respect to its own ruling party, the CPSU. Erich Mielke was the Stasi’s longest-serving chief, in power for thirty-two of the GDR’s forty years of existence.
One of its main tasks was spying on the population, mainly through a vast network of citizens turned informants, and fighting any opposition by overt and covert measures, including hidden psychological destruction of dissidents (Zersetzung, literally meaning decomposition). Its Main Directorate for Reconnaissance (Hauptverwaltung Aufklärung) was responsible for both espionage and for conducting covert operations in foreign countries. Under its long-time head Markus Wolf, this directorate gained a reputation as one of the most effective intelligence agencies of the Cold War. The Stasi also maintained contacts, and occasionally cooperated, with Western terrorists.
Numerous Stasi officials were prosecuted for their crimes after 1990. After German reunification, the surveillance files that the Stasi had maintained on millions of East Germans were laid open, so that any citizen could inspect their personal file on request; these files are now maintained by the Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Records.
The Ministry for State Security also included the following entities:
• Administration 12 was responsible for the surveillance of mail and telephone communications.
• Administration 2000 was responsible for the reliability of the National People’s Army (Nationale Volksarmee, NVA) personnel. Administration 2000 operated a secret, unofficial network of informants within the NVA.
• Administration for Security of Heavy Industry and Research and Main Administration for Security of the Economy: protection against sabotage or espionage.
• Division of Garbage Analysis: was responsible for analyzing garbage for any suspect western foods and/or materials.
• Felix Dzerzhinsky Guards Regiment: the armed force at disposal of the ministry. The members of this regiment, who served at least three years, were responsible for protecting high government and party buildings and personnel. The regiment was composed of six motorized rifle battalions, one artillery battalion, and one training battalion. Its equipment included PSZH-IV armored personnel carriers, 120 mm mortars, 85 mm and 100 mm antitank guns, ZU-23 antiaircraft guns, and helicopters. A Swiss source reported in 1986 that the troops of the Ministry of State Security also had commando units similar to the Soviet Union’s Spetsnaz GRU forces. These East German units were said to wear the uniform of the airborne troops, although with the violet collar patch of the Ministry for State Security rather than the orange one of paratroopers. They also wore the sleeve stripe of the Felix Dzerzhinsky Guards Regiment.
• Main Administration for Reconnaissance: focused its efforts primarily on West Germany and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, but it also operated East German intelligence in all foreign countries.
• Main Administration for Struggle Against Suspicious Persons was charged with the surveillance of foreigners—particularly from the West—legally traveling or residing within the country. This included the diplomatic community, tourists, and official guests.
• Main Coordinating Administration of the Ministry for State Security: coordinated its work with Soviet intelligence agencies.
• Main Department for Communications Security and Personnel Protection: provided personal security for the national leadership and maintained and operated an internal secure communications system for the government.
• Penal System: to facilitate its mission of enforcing the political security of East Germany, the Stasi operated its own penal system, distinct from that of the Ministry of the Interior. This system comprised prison camps for political, as opposed to criminal, offenders.
I knew that the North and South Poles flipped occasionally, it therefore stands to reason that the West turns into the East and the East West.
Its obvious when you look at it like that.
Putin has become a Liberal, China Capitalist and the West; Totalitarian, Nazi, Fascist scumbags.
The Irony!
U.S.A.F. Wanted Shuttle Launches from Vandenburg..Polar Orbits!
Spy on Russia. One Orbit would put Shuttle 11,000 miles from
landing site. Shuttle did not have capability for adjusting Orbit for a
return due limited fuel for burns-re-entry.
Orbits don’t work as you suggest.
NSA has much more information on citizens than Stasi ever had. Only difference – NSA is anonymous to you, in the GDR you knew your spy, it was personal.
Actually your bonus programme card knows more about you than the Stasi ever did, including amazon and you deliberately present this information.
Very true, Anidea. We’ve come a long way since the days of Stasi card indexes and bulky files.
https://www.sott.net/article/404938-UK-governments-welfare-dept-reluctantly-admits-21-000-people-died-waiting-for-benefits
600 homeless people died last year, 2 nearly on the steps of Downing Street, but the government can afford to give the terrorists in Syria £3.1 million pounds worth of chemical weapons:
This is a factsheet on the government website from the Foreign and Commonwealth Office Statistics updated 1 December 2015:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/factsheet-the-uks-non-humanitarian-aid-response-to-the-syria-crisis–2/providing-non-humanitarian-assistance-in-Syria
Search and Rescue: £15m
Security and Justice: £8.2m
Chemical Weapons: £3.1m
Moderate voices, Civil Society and Human Rights: £12m
Media activists: £5.3m
Assistance Coordination Unit: £5.6m
Governance and service delivery: £15.1m
Syrian National Coalition: £3.8m
Moderate armed opposition: £4.4m
Impact on the wider Region: £29.3m
Conflict and Stability Fund: £2.4m (private contractors working from Istanbul to deliver “strategic communications and media operations support to the Syrian armed opposition)
Total £104.2 million pounds of tax payers money
The government has discovered far more people die when they have a home to live in than those that are homeless.
Therefore Mrs May is highly likely to pledge (if she survives this week) for the sake of the Nations Health, she will make increasing the number of homeless her top priority.
Proof that Syria could sue for war reparations maybe…UK supporting terrorism in a sovereign country….
The UK was covertly supporting terrorism in Europe throughout the cold war – with the help of Nazi-staffed “Stay Behind” networks (commonly known as Gladio, after the Italian network) all controlled by MI6 and NATO. The current situation with II and related outfits has much in common with S-B and the mentality that motivates it is identical. By the way, I have a personal interest in S-B and have conducted my own research in this area. Daphne Park, an MI6 legend, who planned the murder of Patrice Lumumba, became a member of the Thatcher Foundation and a governor of the BBC. She was also officer in charge of Stay-Behind ops in Austria, Germany and Switzerland and involved in setting up of S-B in the late 1940s. She would have wholeheartedly approved of II and the IfS – and their methods.
Further to the debate below there is this
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/2018/11/rc4nat09%28e%29.pdf
Yesterday from Liane we had this
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-novichok/chemical-weapons-agency-agrees-to-ban-novichok-nerve-agents-idUKKCN1P818O
And in Aug we had Timperley (Porton Down / OPCW) and Mathews (OPCW) attempting to have “Incapacitants” classification changed (legally / scientifically) to “Central Nervous System – Acting Chemicals”.
Why the big deal?
And the April 2018 Initiative
https://www.opcw.org/sites/default/files/documents/CSP/RC-4/en/rc4dg01_e_.pdf
Basically what it all means is that Salisbury not only caused History to be rewritten but Science too.
Stuff like chlorine. I guess that the Syrian government used legal stuff in the tunnel warfare instead of sending their soldiers to death or leveling the whole place as the Western alliance did in Raqqa.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-43697084
“The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) says initial tests on samples from two sites detected “various chlorinated organic chemicals”, along with explosive residues. However, no nerve agents were detected.
The Syrian government denies ever using chemical weapons, and its ally Russia says it has evidence that the incident was staged with the help of the UK.”
What the UK did was staging a PR exercise. And the Syrian government did not use “chemical weapons” but smoked the tunnels out.
Russia kept preparing for the information warfare by repeating rebels would stage something, and they did, but fact is the staging always preceded rebels leaving an area.
Where is the evidence for this?
Don’t answer I already know, it is with the evidence that says
It was the Skripals on the bench
The Russians did it
Novichok was sprayed onto a door handle
Occam’s razor.
Russia says rebels used chlorine the BBC et al say the Syrian government used chlorine, the OPCW found chlorine, so very likely chlorine was used by all sides.
https://www.rt.com/news/421074-russian-envoy-un-ghouta/
I don’t think you fully gasp the Razor bit if I accuse you of something and you accuse me of the same thing it doesn’t mean we both did it
All three agree that chlorine was used in Syrian warfare.
If I say you used a knife and you say I used a knife and police found a knife, then a knife was used.
And if I know there will be a knife fight, i will at least take a knife.
QED
I wonder why the doctors who were working in the hospital came to the UN to give evidence to say it was a dust cloud from bombing. And before you say it, how else are the Syrian/Russian/Iranian alliance supposed to get rid of the US/UK/NATION sponsored terrorists?
War is immoral.
A Quantum Leap For Mankind At Hand’s Of Wobbly Theresa!
Simply a reminder that the inquest into the death of Dawn Sturgess will be resumed on Wednesday 16th January. Apologies to those who already know or are fed up with me banging on about it.
It is a problem for the Coroner
The details of the Cause of death are not at all clear.
It appears that Dawn actually died in Amesbury and her life support was turned off 8 days later.
PHE advice to the Coroner suggests she did not die of Novichok poisoning and Charlie’s reaction to his poisoning (a bigger dosage) confirms it.
Lets see how it plays out. If they make another pantomime of it the people that loved her and the public that have followed the case will be disgusted further.
An intriguing comment, Peter. Have I missed something, or do you know more than you are letting on here?
Rob
I suppose I do have a little bit of insider intel but the statements I made above are based on what is already in the public domain.
Dawn was taken by ambulance from Charlie’s home unable to breath for herself.
And the advice from PHE was the poison that killed Dawn and harmed (Charlie, the Skripals and Bailey) produces symptoms in people between 12 hours (significant doses) and 3 hours (large doses)
The PHE advice was changed and reported to me this month the advice is now symptoms are produced with the smallest dosage (to cause clinical effect) within up to 12 hours and with a large dose within up to 3 hours. There are no lower limits in new guidelines.
The OPCW advice remains (for nerve agents in general) 20 – 30 minutes for contact through the skin, much quicker via the lungs.
If the Coroner is taking advice from PHE then s/he has to doubt that Novihok was the cause, s/he also must take into consideration what happened to Charlie, the Skripals, Bailey and the duck boys
PHE Old Advice (July 18)
“If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.”
PHE New advice (Jan 19)
“The PHE statement gives (1) an upper limit to the time within which symptoms might appear after exposure to the lowest dose likely to still be able to give clinical symptoms (12 hours); and (2) the upper limit to the time within which symptoms are likely to arise after exposure to a quantity likely to cause severe clinical harm (3 hours). “
Dawn Sturgess 15 mins
Sergei Skripal 2 hrs 30mins
Yulia Skripal 2 hrs 30mins
Charlie Rowley 8 hours
Nick Bailey 2 Days
Duck Boys ?
Still with the Brexit vote Dawn’s Inquest will be somewhat overshadowed.
I wonder what else will be hidden.
Yeah that’s why vote was scrubbed by Theresa first time around.
She moved it to Eve of Dawn’s Inquest in hope Brexit will Gloss it
over.
Someone had a quiet word in her ear regarding Inquest 16.01.19.
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/15638784.Mother_died_after_ingesting__highly_potent_and_toxic__drug/
Dawn’s , and Charlie’s, symptoms match to what is known (or was once known) vernacularly as “Housewife’s Suicide”, more formally as Hydrochloric Acid Poisoning.Deaths were/are not suicides, they ere/are accidents. The cause is mixing of two classes pf cleaning products: Ammonia based and Chlorine based. The mixing produces a mildly toxic gas, Chloramine, and Hydrochloric acid. The traditional poisoning was from the acid evaporating from the sudsy mix solution, being inhaled by the ‘housewife’ and cauterizing her lung tissues with acid-burn. Today with spray-bottle “atomizers” the acid is also distributed in inhale-able aerosol droplets. As Charlie evidences, the evaporated acid in the enclosed air whee cleaning was indoors also effects others than only the ‘woman wielding the mop and bucket’.
There used to be a lot of public hazard-warning information about the mixing of the two constituents (today we could call them ‘binaries’ and the mix a ‘binary poison’) that, mixed, produced the deadly vapour. This was because ammonia had been a common cleaning agent for millennia when the chlorines were developed and put on the market. Mixing cleaning agents for ‘better effects of both’ was natural, and began occurring immediately, and frequently. There should still be warnings, obviously.
Note that all cleaning agents, being soaps, are “oily feeling” and slippery. Note also that ammonia, for having a very strong offensive odor of its own, is usually very highly perfumed. If Charlie wanted something with lots of perfume he would be directed to, or look for, ammonia cleanser. Adding that to a chlorine cleaner, for perfume was a mistake; one not really unlikely for a person of Charlie’s limited analytical capacity. Note that Dawn had blistering on her wrists and neck (nothing said of forehead). Such blitering, above the protective gloves cuff-lines (and down in for loose ones) along with similar acid-blistering on the neck (and forehead) where the person cleaning brushes hair out of the way with wet finger-tips, are also characteristic. Characteristic today (but not in the early days) is death by having a plug pulled, since, today we have facilities for aiding the remnants of he lungs to to function enough to sustain the victim. Charlie, with less damage, could oxygenate on his own, but he will continue to have reduced lung function, for a long time if not the rest of his life.
If the government had had a little more honesty, and less need to sustain its “Novichok” narrative, Dawn’s death could have been constructively used to re-spread word of one of the oldest household ‘binary’ dangers. Instead…
Is anyone running book on whether or not the Coroner will prove more honest than Porton Down’s ‘scientists’, or the OPCW’s? I’m only asking for curiosity about the odds, of course…
Do you have a source for Dawn having blistering on her wrists and neck?
It was reported that Dawn had damage to her hands and face:
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2636298/amesbury-novichok-victim-suffered-damage-to-hands-and-face/
The difference is significant – women do not out perfume on their hands and face but they do put it on their wrists and neck.
Frankly, anything you mix with alcohol can have devastating effects on you. Alcohol crosses the blood brain barrier.
Dawn Sturgess death was another nail in the coffin of the narrative – that “Russian agents did it”, as Charles Rowley was adamant that the “perfume bottle” was sealed in cellophane and the police would have stopped him saying that if they had not found the wrapping and the finger prints.
If the NHE gave a minimum for symptoms that was silly, as it would very much depend on the way of contact and the health (and age, gender) of the person involved. I suppose the maximum was derived from a calculation how long it takes for stuff to circulate (and be cleaned) from the body, but even that ….
Organophosphate poisoning can have long term effects which you don’t necessarily notice right away
https://www.healthline.com/health/organophosphate-poisoning
I guess the NHE tried to keep some sanity in Salisbury.
Charlie actually said the perfume box was wrapped in thick plastic “like a packet of bacon” not cellophane.
The PHE (not NHE) gave a maximum time of when symtopms would present from a significant dose of Novichok (6 -12 hours) and they also gave a minimum time for the symptoms to present for a large dose (3 hours)
I agree that was silly because the OPCW say symptoms present through contact with skin (nerve agents in general) in 20 -30 mins
But then they changed their advice and now it is even sillier.
They no longer give a lower, minimum time range. Instead they say for a low dose it takes up to 12 hours and a high dose up to 3 hours.
As for keeping some Sanity in Salisbury I don’t quite understand that
People react to scares psychologically not rationally.
Imagine everybody rushing to the hospital insisting that tests should be taken or swabs being taken from their home or car.
That’s the fascinating thing about Salisbury, the extreme ‘precaution’ versus the calming down.
“Psychologically” does not exclude being rational.
However PHE advice contradicted the OPCW advice and then they changed it again and contradicted themselves.
Giving Health advice to the public regarding a Nerve Agent Attack is serious business, if PHE were giving duff advice that is very serious too.
If they can’t be trusted to give honest accurate advice, they should not be in business they should also be held to account legally with criminal and civil proceedings
Well, they could hardly say “We don’t know” which would have been the honest answer.
There is a discussion about this question (“Has anyone ever died from mixing ammonia and bleach? Who?”) here :
https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-ever-died-from-mixing-ammonia-and-bleach-Who
Charlie’s “perfume” had no smell to it, he sniffed it, the reports that he said it smelled of ammonia are incorrect, he said it was odourless
Correct Peter, Charlie said it had no smell. The report of ammonia smell was relayed second hand by his brother Matthew. So why was Charlie surprised when the police told him it was NOT perfume….hang on, oily and no smell, what kind of perfume is that? And no comment from Dawn to Charlie when she sprayed the oily, odourless stuff on her wrists?
As for the wrapping, different media outlets have interpreted plastic moulding as cellophane.
Take your pick of any account from the media as it’s all smoke and “Mirrors”.
Maybe the coroner will do better but I doubt it.
I’ve actually met with Charlie and speak with him regularly, what we say is strictly confidential, however I can confirm it had no smell and was wrapped in thick plastic “like a packet of bacon”. He is sure he retrieved it from the Bin behind the Cloisters pub / Charity shop (the back and front of both are covered by CCTV) and he carried it around for a couple of days in his pocket before giving it to Dawn.
Will be another Official Whitewash with no thought-respect for
Dawn-Family.
anidea, quoting from Tass said ….“Granny definitely won’t go there though she wants to, but her health doesn’t allow it. She is 91 years old and she has not been well recently, this week she will have an electrocardiogram… she can barely walk,” Viktoria said.
“As for me, I don’t intend to go to Great Britain now, Yulia [Sergei Skripal’s daughter] has not called any member of the family, Sergei Viktorovich [Sripal] is probably dead.”
Surely this is playing into the hands of the UK government, they [the UK Police] don’t want any visitors to Yulia or Sergei, Victoria has had various applications tuned down by the UK Embassy in Moscow as ‘political stunts’, how could they turn down a request from a 91 year old ailing Mother who has not seen her son since before March last year? Even the human scum who turned down Victoria’s applications would be hard pressed to disallow one from his Mother, Better for Sergei’s Mother to apply for the visa, waited for the expected refusal, and then say she was too ill to travel. These details are why both Skripals need legal advice, it is imperative in the dire situation they are in.
People who are 91 usually cannot travel. I was surprised that Victoria pretended to try it.
She sounds as if she got what she was after so maybe there was some type of communication.
I don’t expect Victoria not to be able to shut her mouth if she needs to.
THE HAGUE (Reuters) – The OPCW global chemical weapons watchdog will add Novichok, the Soviet-era nerve agent used in an attack last year in Salisbury, England, to its list of banned toxins after its members adopted a proposal on Monday.
They agreed “to add two families of highly toxic chemicals (incl. the agent used in Salisbury),” Canada’s ambassador to the agency, Sabine Nolke, said on Twitter.
Monday’s OPCW decision was confidential and no other details were released.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-novichok/chemical-weapons-agency-agrees-to-ban-novichok-nerve-agents-idUKKCN1P818O
“two families of highly toxic chemicals” – if were were allowed to know what two families, then we would be a step nearer to understand what was used in Salisbury. But unfortunately the decision was confidential. WHY ?
I understood Novichoks were already banned however if someone wants a 10p bet what the second member of the newly banned groups are it is;
Central Nervous System – Acting Chemicals.
Or Nerve Agents for short
They used to be known as Incapacitants
I don’t know how much lower they can dig themselves in but they appear determined to find out.
Note the date Aug 18
Note the names Timperley and Mathews and Google them.
Timperley a boss at PD and Chairman of the OPCW
And Mathews bigwig legal brain at the OPCW
Who do they think they are kidding?
We know Novichok was not use in Salisbury or Amesbury but an Incapacitant was
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326916630_Central_Nervous_System-acting_chemicals_and_the_Chemical_Weapons_Convention_A_former_Scientific_Adviser's_perspective
A major problem they have is that Porton Down provided deliberately false information to the High Court in their application to take biological samples from the Skripals, they stated that they had been poisoned by a Nerve Agent knowing full well that an Incapacitant had been used.
Perjury.
Sorry Skripals should have been in inverted commas
Thanks Liane,
It seems to defy logic in having “secret” lists of nerve agents.
Are they kept secret so that clinicians do not when to recognise their use?
Or secret, to stop bad people making them?
If general toxicity is known, what is the point of not revealing the compound that is causing the toxicity.
More to the point why would the successful treatment that PD and SDH not be put in the public domain?
It could be life saving,
I notice my active list of “Why?” questions related to the Salisbury saga is now 6,814.
Why do I have a list? OK that makes it 6,815.
@ Duncan,
Thanks for a hearty laugh [6,185]. Appreciated.
Duncan, how do you understand this : „… illustrated by abstract chemical compounds, which may not exist at all.” ?
Quote : Russia objects against the three nations’ proposal to “put under control not the entire spectrum of toxic agents developed and patented in many member nations of the convention, including those called ‘Novichok’ in the West, but only two families of agents illustrated by abstract chemical compounds, which may not exist at all.”
http://tass.com/politics/1039903
If Novichok as a class was NOT on their list, then how can it have been banned?
If it was on their list, then it can’t be added now, as it was always there.
How did PD quickly know that the Skripal toxin was a banned nerve agent, which was not yet banned.
Letting Mrs May and Boris know that it could only have come from the Russian state.
This second class of compound mentioned is interesting too.
It is not BZ, as that is a known entity.
Is this new knowledge from field deployment, or is a lab knowingly, but secretly developing chemical weapons?
Where in Wiltshire could that possibly be?
From the previous OPCW Schedule. ( The new one is a secret)
O-Alkyl (<=C10, incl. cycloalkyl) alkyl (Me, Et, n-Pr or i-Pr)-phosphonofluoridates
e.g. Sarin: O-Isopropyl methylphosphonofluoridate (107-44-8)
Soman: O-Pinacolyl methylphosphonofluoridate (96-64-0)
Duncan, Novichok was not on the OPCW list.
The NIST 98 listed a chemical with formula C8H18FN2O2P named as N-(O-ethyl-fluorophosphoryl)-N’-N’-diethyl-acetamidine, with NIST number 226889.
This molecular structure corresponds to A-234.
The record submitted by Edgewood for a compound with formula C8H18FN2O2P no longer exists in the current version of the NIST Mass Spectral Library. WHY ?
Because several states have their secret shares in Novichok !
Quote : A secret cable dated 26 March 2009 from a US delegate to OPCW reported that at a meeting of the OPCW Data Validation Group in The Hague a few weeks earlier, “representatives of several countries (Finland, Netherlands, UK) had begun discussing the Mirzayanov book on the margins of the meeting”.
The US delegate noted that U.S. Del understands from OSD that the UK Ministry of Defense has spoken to its counterparts in the Netherlands and Finland, apprised them of the conversation, and asked each country to provide guidance to its del members not to raise this issue in the future.
A subsequent cable on 3 April 2009 from the Secretary of State Hillary Clinton instructed the US
delegation to the Informal Inter-Sessional Meeting of the Australia Group (a group of US-allied
countries set up in 1985 to control the export of precursors of chemical weapons) that one of five US objectives for the meeting was to:
– Avoid any substantive discussion of the Mirazayanov book “State Secrets: An Insider’s View of the Russian Chemical Weapons Program” or so
– called ‘Fourth Generation Agents.’
Taken together with the deletion of the record for A-234 submitted by Edgewood to the NIST Mass Spectral library, this suggests that the US and UK governments are concealing what they know about the A-230 series of compounds, for reasons that are not clear.
https://www.cbrne-terrorism-newsletter.com/resources/APR_2018%20Part_A.pdf
Wonder if Bailey accessed the loft-attic space 47 CMR on
his illegal search of property,it’s something Cops do?
On leaving he contaminated front door handle………………
He a Major Player in events at 47 I suspect.
And skewed the pipe sticking out of the roof at the same time?
I don’t think he was there. BBC had to move his visit to midnight, as none of his colleagues noticed him there at 5pm.
It does beg the question as to who went to 47CMR before the bench couple were transferred to SDH; maybe DSNB was not not one of the ‘police’ who turned up, at a time too coincident for the bench incident not to be involved.
Did the police, or those in the police car, remove the pets?
The SJ reported the police attendance, and it was mentioned in the Daily Mirror twice (probably by Sophie Evans, who retweeted the articles). Whilst the SJ reported that the police arrived at 5pm, the DM said the police had been there since 5pm – so had there been police on duty there from 5pm onwards but no-one went into the house until much nearer midnight?
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16066343.Critically_ill_man_is_former_Russian_spy__BBC_reports/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-picture-smiling-daughter-33-12136056
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/spy-suburbia-families-shock-lovely-12136609
Eleanor – All the evidence suggests that the pets were removed to safety on the morning of the 4th March or earlier. The police never once even saw them
I hear you, Miheila, but I’ve not encountered said evidence (not yet, anyway).
Ahem just a thought but could Mo’s curious inspection of the shower have been a strategy for her to leave with, say, the guinea pigs?
Depends what you mean by ‘evidence’. When the police entered #47 they became legally responsible for the well-being of any animals on the property. That is not just some abstract notion, that is the law of the land. They were the only ones with access to the property and they immediately assumed a legal responsibility to ensure that any animals on the property were properly cared for.
Did they do this? Well they claim not. They claim that for days, policemen and women, trooped in and out of the house and not one of them thought about their legal duty until the animals were dead.
Do you believe that? I certainly don’t.
To me that is evidence that no animals were in the house when the police FIRST entered it. If there had been, I am confident that any such animals would have been dealt with by the police, in accordance with the law of the land.
Of course I don’t believe it, Paul, and I made at least one oblique reference to it a while back (and I can’t find the other one):
‘If the pets were in the house, they’d have been very hungry because The Boss had been out longer than he’d intended.’ Given that there seem to be no obvious catflaps at 47CMR, there really ought to have been a moggy to greet them and asking where the hell they’d been etc …
Of the police, I’d say that probably each of them adopted a Jobsworth approach towards pets: if there wasn’t a dog in hostile mode, then all animals were someone else’s job and not mine, guv. And unfairly I’ll go on to claim that each would have thought someone else would report the animal welfare issue; the most senior attending officer, nudged or otherwise.
OTOH I suppose circumstantial evidence can be used to support other arguments. And on the other other (sic) hand, you, Miheila and others may well be right.
And:
“No mention of at least one cat, complaining that it was really hungry.”
https://www.theblogmire.com/as-dead-as-a-doornail-handle/#comment-20652
I guess we have to chose one of only two possibilities:
1) the animals had been removed; or
2) the animals were there but the police ignored them and the cats did not escape.
The second scenario is unlikely: police were in and out, doors opened and closed but neighbours have confirmed they did not seen the cats – I just don’t believe it is true.
That only leaves scenario 1. The animals had been removed.
Whether or not either of the cats slipped out the police-opened door (if the pets were in the house), presumably the guinea pigs weren’t free range indoors and anyway aren’t as dedicatedly nimble as some felines.
I’m not assuming that the pets were evacuated en bloc but that leaves me with twice the problem, as to when and if they left!
“I don’t think he was there.”
………………………………………………………
Neither do I. Bailey’s tale is a lie. The policemen who arrived to Skripal’s house at 5pm, without hazmats, did not get contaminated. How could Bailey have got contaminated at midnight, seven hours later, by touching the same door handle that had been already touched by police at least twice?
He said “we lost everything”, meaning that his family lost their home and all belongings because of the Novichok contamination. It must have been some hellish contamination, as neither baby wipes, recommended to the public to clean things, nor decontamination procedures, applied to all other allegedly contaminated places, saved Bailey’s house. But no one of Bailey’s family got ill!
Bailey’s poisoning was an exception, as neither first responders nor other policemen got poisoned. Thus, his circumstances were exceptional. Remember that the cleaning of Bourne Hill Police Station was focused on the evidence store and two lockers. So, it is reasonable to suggest that Bailey brought a contaminated evidence item to the evidence store. The location where he found the item contradicts the official narrative. I think this explains why Bailey’s house is not to be returned to the Baileys: he is hidden from the public, his friends and colleagues.
Milda, while not disputing what you say, how do we know that the police did anything more than park their van at Sergei’s house?
A police unit might have been sent there to find out if Sergei’s car was there, not knowing that it was still at Sainsbury’s.
Then wait in the driveway for further instructions.
The police van might have been told to stay there and be on the lookout.
DSB was/is CID, so maybe the regular plod did not attempt access.
Or maybe they did.
If only Sergei had CCTV installed………
I think it is plausible that the police had to check whether anybody else, overdosed, was in Skripal’s house. Over the first 45 minutes after the call to police by a member of the public, this is between 4:15pm and 5pm, a drug overdose case was a prime version of what had happene.
What about Bailey’s house? Does your “why” list, Duncan, include the question why Bailey’s house can’t be returned to their family? And even more “why”: even if Bailey’s house was contaminated “beyond” decontamination (of course not, as nobody got ill in that house, but let’s assume), why Bailey and his family should have moved to some unknow destination far away? Why were they granted a new home in a far-away location and not in Salisbury? Why were they uprooted so harshly?
There is of course the interesting question what Bailey did from 5 o’clock till midnight apart from having a look at the bench.
Whatever is going on at 47CMR now is far, far removed from ‘toxic stuff smeared on a front door handle’.
However, what I’ve noticed (but yet again not bothered to mention) is that all those images of assorted police and PCSOs, and their vehicles, stood unprotected to cordon off 47CMR in the days and weeks after 4 March.
In pretty much all of the images I’ve seen, there’s a police presence, a flue that sometimes indicates that it’s connected to a working boiler &/or wood stove with back boiler, and another soil vent at 90 degrees to the roof (the pipe that may or may not have been repurposed to house cctv camera(s)).
This was March and not the warmest time of year, the Beast from the East was only just becoming a recent memory, so why would an unoccupied house have its’ upstairs front (and maybe back) top hung windows wide open all the time? To me, this suggests fumes … ? Yet DSNB, in his Panorama interview clips, said they found nothing untoward when he and his colleagues paid their midnight visit to the property.
Here’s Rob’s choice of image of the open windows:
https://www.theblogmire.com/the-salisbury-poisonings-10-questions-for-the-authorities-to-answer-about-their-handling-of-this-case/
https://www.sott.net/article/404856-Consider-the-danger-US-ambassador-threatens-to-sanction-German-Nord-Stream-2-companies
US/UK Plans to Scupper Nord Stream-2 Gas Pipeline
Mrs May failed to mention that the British government had requested Russia to send two container shipments of liquefied gas winter 2017/18 because of a shortfall during the cold spell. Or that she will now sacrifice this cheaper source of gas for the preferred, more expensive, US gas, however unreliable that might be given the distance, to the detriment of the UK consumer.
Russian fuel accounted for over 60% of German natural gas imports in 2017. Nord Stream-1 gained strong political support from the EC after unexpected disruptions to Russian gas supplies to the EU, via Ukraine, in 2006 and 2009. Nord Stream-1 has reduced Russian export flows through Ukraine by around 50% 2015. The Ukraine Transit contract ends at the end of 2019 which is when Nord Stream-2 will become fully operational. Russia will cease using the transit pipe with the resultant loss of much needed income for Ukraine.
Germany also backs the construction of the Nord Stream-2 pipeline, which is set to lie alongside Nord Stream-1, and is planned to come online by the end of 2019, which is when Russia’s gas transit contract with Ukraine expires.
Sputnik International, 21/3/2018:
Nord Stream-2 is a joint venture between Russia’s state gas giant Gazprom and five European companies:
• France’s Engie
• Austria’s OMV AG
• Germany’s Uniper and Wintershall
• Royal Dutch Shell
Berlin and the EU have repeatedly expressed an interest in implementing the project.
Speaking at a news briefing on Wednesday [21/3/2018], US State Department spokesman Heather Nauert said:
“As many people know, the US government oppose the Nord Stream-2 project. We believe that the Nord Stream-2 project would undermine Europe’s overall energy security and stability. It would provide Russia another tool to pressure European countries, especially countries such as Ukraine.”
“At the State Department, we have spent a lot of time speaking with our partners and allies overseas to explain to them the ramifications of the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, and how an individual, company or country can run foul against CAATSA and fall into sanctions. We don’t tend to comment on sanctions actions, but we’ve been clear that firm steps against the Russian energy export pipeline sector could, if they engage in that kind of business, expose themselves to sanctions under CAATSA.”
It’s got nothing to do with countering adversaries, unless that is read to mean countering threats to the US aim of using dominance in the energy market to hold countries to ransom in the same manner as they are doing with sanctions.
There’s a word, begins with an ‘h’, very descriptive of attitudes in Washington. It will come to me, I’m sure.
The German II cluster is the most important because Nord Stream 2 Disruption is there sponsors’ top priority at the moment, it even overshadows the Brexit meddling and skulduggery.
The advice issued by II to HMG just days after the Salisbury incident on how to immediately respond to Russia included something that really should not have been there, for a number of reasons
“Start a campaign to prevent construction of the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline”
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2018/12/13/sergei-skripal-affair-ii-response-110318/sergei-skripal-affair-ii-response-110318.pdf
The reasons it should not be there are simply that 1) it is already being constructed, 2) that Britain has no influence in the project and 3) what the hell has it got to do with the Institute of Statecraft or the Integrity Initiative?
The answer is that IfS / II take their orders from their masters and their masters don’t like the Nord Stream 2 project one bit. It changes a great deal including cheaper fuel for the UK but also its reduces the US control of Europe whilst increasing Russian control and wealth streams.
The US has been threatened Germany that if it continues with its plan for cheaper fuel from Russia the US will harm Germany. That’s how the US do business.
The II Skripal Response Advice is mirrored in the II Wish List from March 2015 but at that time the Nord 2 Agrrement had not been signed, it was signed in September that year. These set out the aims of the project at that time.
https://www.pdf-archive.com/2018/12/28/sanctions-and-the-russian-federation/sanctions-and-the-russian-federation.pdf
………….
The Importance of the German Cluster
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201901071071265270-integrity-initiative-germany-criminal/
https://sputniknews.com/europe/201901091071339115-integrity-initiative-german-cluster/
If US policy were more rational and reliable they might get what they want, but German position now seems to be to negotiate but stick to their guns as the US are unreliable.
The US have a lot of economic leverage in Germany as exports to the US are much larger to the US than to Russia, but the US threaten German exports generally and the Russian market has a huge potential to buy German stuff.
That pipeline is essential as cheap gas is an economic advantage anyway.
Trump can’t have “America First” and retain economic leverage.
Quote: “Russian Reaction: It is essential to realise that when dealing with Putin and his circle, you are not dealing with politicians, but with hardened men who believe that they have a mission to make Russia stand out on the world stage; for whom human life is a disposable commodity; who are unaffected by emotions such as compassion; who have become fantastically wealthy in Russia and will do anything to preserve that wealth”.
The IFS/II people are projecting – they are seeing their own villany in the Russians.
When discussing North Stream II we should not forget the influence of Ukraine.
All western states know very well that they have helped a criminal regime to power.
First and foremost Frank-Walter Steinmeier. They owe complicity.
Poroshenko makes good use of this – be it the North Stream II project, the IMF or now the austerity.
I’m curious how he will manage to maintain his power, even though his people totally reject him.
I hope that my government will stand firm in case of North Stream II. The topic is discussed very controversially by our politicians.
Can we have Rob and any other Wiltshire Blogmirer make an effort to determine who is paying for this fiasco?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6584645/Military-biohazard-suits-remove-windows-home-ex-spy-Sergei-Skripal-deep-clean.html#comments
We have Salisbury citizens wanting the whole event to be forgotten about, while waiting with bated breath for the “Salisbury Rebranding Campaign” to take effect.
On the other hand, we have HMG seemingly doing all they can to keep the horrendous Novichok attack in the front and centre of the news.
We know this is because the “Bad Russia” stories can deflect from HMG’s ineptitude in everything they touch, however, why are concerned Wiltshire residents not voicing concern on the amount of money being wasted in getting Sergei’s house restored?
This is your money being thrown away as part of a PR stunt.
Even the Daily Mail readers do not believe it.
When paying (or not paying) Universal Credit, the government watches every penny. When promoting the “Bad Russia” story, money is no object.
Different pots, Blunderbuss. One of them would appear to be bottomless.
Different gardeners, Blunderbus. One is absolutely bloody useless at growing magic money trees, the other excels at it.
Skripal will have to pay for it.
https://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2018/may/pool-re-salisbury-attack-insurance-coverage-gap/
and
https://www.jltspecialty.com/our-insights/thought-leadership/construction/terrorism-cover-how-pool-re-affects-your-construction-insurance
“The coverage provided by the mutual reinsurer is only in respect of losses flowing from damage to commercial property; it does not cover life or personal injury and nor will it insure private property.”
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/salisbury-how-clean-enough-chris-holt
“Even with access to more effective modelling, there remains an unanswered question about a population’s willingness to return to a location after it has been contaminated – perception rather than science ultimately drives the answer to the question “how clean is clean enough?”. The willingness of a population to return to a contaminated area could have a major impact on financial losses following an event in a central business district, so Salisbury provides a rare and important case study. Considering that ‘confidence’ will be a major factor in the long term financial health of Salisbury, there does seem to be a lack of an effective communications and PR strategy. Little does more to drive away business than the sight of secretive investigators in chemical protection suits – not everyone would take their children to central Salisbury at the moment. “
The same people will pay that always pay, the taxpayers.
The Taxpayers pay for:
The politicians and civil servants to put a Brexit deal together.
The police to charge someone in connection with Dawn Sturgess’ death.
The politicains and police to have the Institute for Statecraft / Integrity Initiative investigated for antidemocratic activities and Malfeasance in Public Office, the people committing the crimes, the Cluster Members, are by and large paid by the taxpayer to do a very different job than the one they are doing, in the FCO, MoD, Embassies etc etc. They are not paid to undermine Britain’s interests and target Jeremy Corbyn, they are committing very serious crimes.
We are not getting very good value for money especially when you look at the rising poverty in this country, crimes on the up, prisons full, drug epidemics, failed NHS, needless and wicked wars etc etc
You are paying for it Duncan whether in Income Tax or VAT or the multitude of tax on taxes that we all pay. You Duncan are paying for Skripals house to be refurbished, for the house to be given to Skripal in the first place, you paid him for the information that he sold to Britain, You are paying for the Hoax and Cover Up.
Get Used To It!
Peter,
I would certainly agree that as I pay UK tax and Vat contributions then I am paying for it.
I think you may live in Wiltshire, so you may have a more audible and vocal expression about what is going on “local to you.”
We have two competing scenarious.
1) The Salisbury community want to move on, the city is even spending money (my tax money) on re-branding. 2018 footfall was down. Lets forget and progress, put this chapter behind us, etc.
The intrepid fearless citizenry wants to move on. This group of people must include the local and county council. (Yes?)
Salisbury does remain a military town however, which may make the viewpoint slightly tilted in a more “pro MOD” stance than most towns in the UK.
My mother in law lives in a “Navy” town in Scotland, so I understand this mindset.
2) HMG seem to want to keep the “attack” in the forefront of the UK public view.
There might be several reasons for this.
a) Keep up the Bad Russia theme
b) Brexit, HS2, Drone prevention, London stabbings, almost everything the government touches turns to mud, so Novichok deflects from their futilities elsewhere.
c) The situation really is unfolding as slowly as we are told by TPTB. But why have the expense and effort in removing the roof, the ever-present enclosure at CRM?
Many buildings where notoriety occurred are simply condemned and demolished. It’s the best way to try to remove the sigmatism and prevent the ghouls turning up to visit.
The recent narrative about restoring the home for Sergei’s return seem ridiculous, but that is what we heard last week.
We are now 10 months on, yet the Novichok attack is still in headlines.
“Get Used To It!”.
Not A Chance.
This whole business of what they are doing to Sergei’s house is farcical on so many levels. Consider the construction of the house:
* Cavity walls – what about the insulation in the cavity, is this not absorbent?
* Plaster on interior walls – is this not slightly porous? What about that?
* Plasterboard internal partitioning – same comment as previous
* The Floors – the ground floor may be wood covered, certainly the upper floors would be, what about them?
* Floors again – carpets, what about them?
* Then there are the window frames, but wait a moment, they are double glazed, aren’t they, so plastic – why are they being removed?
* And then we come to the bricks – definitely porous, them?
* And lets not forget the internal house furniture, such as cupboards, draws, beds, matresses, . . .
There might be some valid reason, but, with my limited intellectual capacity (IMHO far exceeding that of the II denizens) I’m feeling a bit stumped.
Time to end the kakistocracy and terminate all companies [and individuals] profiteering from wars. That would [or should] suffice in bringing about a more peaceful environment.
They say, ‘No news is good news,’ but in the Skripal case [Sergei and Yulia] I beg to differ. The silence’s like a humongous, bad omen. Any son should care about his ailing mother. Sergei’s no exception. That’s what worries me the most.
2 more months and TPTB have pushed this affair down the road for 1 year, in the hope it ‘will go away.’
To any illustrious adversary out there, let me assure you, it won’t.
The Nina Ricca bottle and nozzle are so amateurish and ludicrous, I dont think it could have come from MI56, especially being so tightly sealed, meaning that it couldn’t have be the weapon supposedly used on the Skripals . It reminds me of the style and of the ideas leaked from the Integrity Initiative.
Could it be that the Integrity Initiative, seeing its Skripal hoax anti Russia propaganda being laughed at on Twitter and in all the comments under the MSM stories, decided to plant the Nina Ricci bottle in the so called charity bin in Salisbury, to save their loosing strategy against the Russians?
The Integrity Initiative is said to be a UK/NATO military operation.
The Integrity Initiative people, now their names are published ought to be thinking about making themselves scarce because if the Russians don’t kill them the CIA probably will
And as the Integrity people have told us the Russians are crazy enough to not go after their enemy first bur will go after their parents, grandparents and children first just to make a point.
Why would you prod the bear if you know they are capable of that?
Denise. The II is a UK/NATO operation. Brainchild of UK military intelligence and the FCO (read MI6).
https://macaudailytimes.com.mo/cyprus-no-longer-mediterranean-haven-for-russian-businesses.html
Russians downsizing from Cyprus (and Jersey)
“En+ Group plc said Nov. 2 it plans to move to Russia from Jersey rather than to Cyprus as previously planned. En+ is the main shareholder of aluminum giant United Co. Rusal, a company of billionaire Oleg Deripaska, who is on the U.S.’s sanctions list. Accounts belonging to Viktor Vekselberg, who’s also on the U.S. list and whose Lamesa Investments Ltd, an affiliate of Renova Group, is the largest shareholder in Bank of Cyprus, have been frozen, according to the bank.
The outflow of Russian funds from the island marks the reversal of a trend that began after the fall of the Soviet Union and accelerated as Cyprus joined the European Union in 2004 and adopted the euro in 2008. Russian investors were attracted to Cyprus by its status as a low-tax regime within the EU and was seen as safe and stable.”
…
“Amid sanctions and tightening compliance, Cyprus banks prefer not to deal with Russian money and Russian clients, even those who’ve had accounts in Cyprus banks many years,” said Evgeny Kogan, former director of the Center for Protection of Shareholders and Investor Rights of Cypriot Banks set up in 2014. “Russian clients are becoming toxic.”
oh well, there is always Malta
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-11/why-russians-are-choosing-malta-over-putin
http://syriapropagandamedia.org/working-papers/briefing-note-on-the-integrity-initiative#release-of-documents-relating-to-the-integrity-initiative
http://syriapropagandamedia.org/working-papers/briefing-note-update-on-the-salisbury-poisonings
Craig Murray calls Harding an “MI6 tool“, but to this writer, Harding seems worse than an MI6 stooge: He’s a wannabe-spook, hanging from the coat-tails of anonymous intelligence officers and publishing their drivel as fact without so much as a skeptical blink.
https://off-guardian.org/2019/01/02/the-guardians-reputation-in-tatters-after-forger-revealed-to-have-co-authored-assange-smear/?mc_cid=7521837ed8&mc_eid=91b97c0a92
https://sputniknews.com/analysis/201809241068287630-guardian-harding-mi6-propaganda/
I received a shocking response from Public Health England to a Freedom of Information Request that I have submitted. I have asked for an Internal Review
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_advice_on_novichok_wiltsh#followup
Dear Public Health England,
Please pass this on to the person who conducts Freedom of Information reviews.
I am writing to request an internal review of Public Health England’s handling of my FOI request ‘Public Advice on Novichok – Wiltshire Incidents’.
I have asked why the advice PHE put out is so different from the advice promulgated by the OPCW and you have not answered that. For clarity I now want to know the information PHE has on the particular Novichok concerned and the toxicological properties it possess that allow you to give the advice you do. I want to see the data that you base your advice on
I would also like you to explain why you only give upper average time limits (what ever that means), for the poison to take effect and not lower time limits. And please explain why PHE advice does not make it perfectly clear that your advice now neglects lower limits for large and small doses. That was not the advice PHE gave in July, please explain why the advice has changed.
My complaint has 2 parts 1) is that the advice you have given me here contradicts entirely with the advice given by a PHE director at a public meeting to address concerns in Amesbury 2) You have not answered my FoIR.
I now want to know what information you are basing your advice on (the data) because it has clearly shifted from the Amesbury public meeting, why has it shifted? The data you had in July that formed that advice and the data you have now that forms your new advice.
“If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.” Paul Cosford Amesbury 10th July 2018
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2630419/amesbury-incident-novichok-could-be-active-for-50-years/
A full history of my FOI request and all correspondence is available on the Internet at this address: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_advice_on_novichok_wiltsh
Yours faithfully,
Peter Beswick
This is the Statement made by PHE in July
“If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.”
This is a part of the response I got from PHE to my FoI Request
“The PHE statement gives (1) an upper limit to the time within which symptoms might appear
after exposure to the lowest dose likely to still be able to give clinical symptoms (12 hours);
and (2) the upper limit to the time within which symptoms are likely to arise after exposure to
a quantity likely to cause severe clinical harm (3 hours). “
Charlie Rowley got a large dose of whatever was in the perfume bottle, he sniffed it, it had no odour he got it on his hands “it was oily” he washed his hands in a sink.
Dawn Surgess fell very ill withing 15minutes of her exposure, Charlies ambulance was called 8 hours later after he had walked into town, eaten at a Church BBQ been to get some meds from the chemist and done some shopping for Dawn to take to the hospital.
Whichever advice you take from PHE July 18 or Jan 19 it tends to negate Novichok unless Dawn suffered a massive allergic reaction (anaphylactic shock)
The OPCW advice on time to develop symptoms form Nerve agents (in general) via the skin is 20 – 30mins. Via the lungs can be seconds.
Dawn Sturgess 15 mins
Sergei Skripal 2 hrs 30mins
Yulia Skripal 2 hrs 30mins
Charlie Rowley 8 hours
Nick Bailey 2 Days
Yes, it seems very sensitive to dose.
It is surprising how much you can stretch a few micrograms.
But it is somehow consistent with the Kivelidi case
https://books.google.de/books?id=BQdl1h-ubnAC&pg=PA165&lpg=PA165&dq=how+long+did+it+take+for+kivelidi+to+show+symptoms&source=bl&ots=yswX48Wofa&sig=cXw2TyZMrmkWRpO1YTS3Rkxhwqo&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjx5LKZgOvfAhUKKlAKHSMTCaY4ChDoATACegQIBxAB#v=onepage&q=how%20long%20did%20it%20take%20for%20kivelidi%20to%20show%20symptoms&f=false
Except that everyone except Dawn Sturgess was not really poisoned, ie must have been exposed to miniscules of the substance.
http://convert-to.com/conversion/water-weight-volume/convert-si-drop-gtt-water-volume-to-microgram-of-water-weight.html
and the symptoms described in Kivelidi’s case were different – and he and his secretary died after a few days.
But of course the Skripals were not poisoned at all in reality.
If Charlie’s story was true, that would mean that he inhaled the same nerve agent aerosole that Dawn inhaled when she reportedly sprayed the “perfume” on her wrists. If the story was true, both Dawn and Charlie inhaled the nerve agent aerosole and would have been dead within minutes or seconds. Washing hands would not have helped when the nerve agent got into the lungs.
If the stuff could have been sprayed like perfume the Teva applicator would make no sense.
The Q in Russia is not as clever as the UK guy who invents all the spy killing tools.
Who would make an aerosol / atomiser to use to coat a door a handle with the world’s most potent nerve agent?
Stupid Russians, that’s who.
“No lets not just put the stuff on door handle with a brush, lets make it airborne so it kills the people applying it and everything in the vicinity of where it is sprayed, including the birds nesting in the rafters.”
That’s the mentality of the people that made this ludicrous story up.
Not so much an aerosol spray as an arsehole one
You’ve seen the manual, haven’t you?
Come on, admit it!!
I guess the applicator was added to make the door knob theory stick, and Charles and Dawn thought it was Fentanyl. I
IF it could be sprayed like perfume, a big IF, It might very well have been the original bottle repackaged, and the – botched – method of attack similar to the way Kim yong nam was killed.
There is of course the story with the woman and the Sars Mask
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5492733/Suspicious-masked-woman-spotted-Salisbury-spy-collapsed.html
“A masked woman was seen acting suspiciously in Salisbury an hour before the Skripals were found collapsed, police have been told.
The dark-haired woman was spotted wearing a black face mask as she left a Pret a Manger, a three-minute walk from where Sergei Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, were later found convulsing and vomiting.
At the time the pair were thought to be in the Mill pub a few yards away. ”
https://www.wsj.com/video/the-moment-kim-jong-nam-was-attacked-cctv-footage/D4AAC6B7-60BE-4457-8B20-093F3F063197.html
Same as the applicator, oil might have been added.
“The liquid that Aisyah rubbed on Kim Jong-nam’s face was likely not fully constituted VX. Experts have suggested that VX2 was employed instead. “VX2 is made by dividing VX into two non-reactive compounds,” Vipin Narang, an associate professor of political science at Massachusetts Institute of Technology who holds two degrees in chemical engineering, told me. “What the women were likely doing was creating active VX on Kim Jong-nam’s face by each delivering their ingredient.””
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/long-reads/article/2135434/kim-jong-nams-accused-killers-north-korean
Your treading on interesting ground here Peter. lol
“The agent known as Q, inventive head of gadgets at the UK spy agency MI6, has always been portrayed in the James Bond movies as a man. But the real head of Britain’s secret service, Sir Alex Younger, revealed on Wednesday night that Q is in fact a woman.”
You would assume that she would be very familiar with perfume and the application of perfume?
From:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/26/the-real-q-is-a-woman-boss-of-mi6-launches-drive-for-female-recruits
You would also assume that Dawn was familiar with perfumes, would have taken one look at the weird contraption and said “what the hell is this?” “You say it’s oily and has no smell?” “And you found it in a bin?” “Guess I’ll spray it all over my wrists then!”. Really??!
Except it wasn’t an aerosol, it was a small, pump action atomiser spray.
Atomisers create an aerosol
But aren’t their reach considerably less? If what was found at Muggleton Road is anything to judge by, a small quantity administered by a manual pump action will mostly have a localised effect.
Large area smoke screens are aerosols
Don’t limit your thinking
I could make you a smoke screen that fitted that volume of perfume bottle (that was unused), that would fill a ballroom and you wouldn’t be able to see your hand in front of your face.
Don’t lecture me about stuff you know nothing about.
Sorry that might sound a bit obscure (forgive the unintended pun) with a smoke screen aerosol you can see it.
Tiny particles dispersed in a cloud of gas (air) billions of them.
You can’t see a perfume aerosol and you can’t see a nerve gas one either but billions and billions of particles scattered in the air.
It would get everywhere, in you clothes, your hair, eyes , nose and spread ffor 10’s / 100’s of yards in every direction depending on the wind, pressure and temperature. Possibly hundreds of miles.
That is why it is so stupid to spray the stuff when you can dab it on a door handle or brush it. Lady Q would not approve.
This might help explain. the effect. one teaspoon of oil ………
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00PPPt7EJqo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2H418M3V6M
The “non” poisioning would make sense if we assume
that it indeed got “botched”
Sergej Skripal noticing that he was followed. Phoning his police contact, Sergeant Bailey. Bailey being the hero he was described as interrupting the act. Getting a minuscule portion of the poison not noticing it. “Military doctor” called giving antidotes right from the start (that would explain the length of time they were treated on scene)
So why would police cover it up.
Because secret service said so?
Thought it smelled slightly ammonia ish?
Charlie did not say that. It was his brother who said Charlie said it.
I guess you could embarrass them by asking on what they basis these assumption and how many people they have heard of who were poisoned by A-234.
My last message has disappeared. It may have been deleted by moderators because it contained a suspicious IP address.
More details at stopforumspam:
https://stopforumspam.com/ipcheck/46.183.220.181
My message has now been restored. The abuse from this IP address has been going on since 24 Oct 2018 (which is before I wrote to the Institute for Statecraft) so it is probably not related to the IFS.
Further to this:
https://www.theblogmire.com/summing-up-the-official-claims-in-the-salisbury-poisonings-weighed-in-the-balances-and-found-wanting/#comment-22674
I have discovered that the misuse of my email account is being done from IP address : 46.183.220.181, in Latvia.
Always the same address? On how may occasions?
Twenty-five since 5 January 2019, but I have only identified the IP address in one of them.
It appears that Wiltshire Council doesn’t need to ask Sergei about anything related to their plans regarding Sergei’ house at 47 Christie Miller Road. According to Viktoria, Sergei’s niece, Sergei gave Yulia a ‘general’ power of attorney over his affairs just days before he disappeared from Salisbury on March 4th.
That not only gave Yulia access to her deceased brother’s Russian bank account which held the proceeds from the sale of his former house in the UK but being a general power of attorney, it gave Yulia complete control of all Sergei’s assets as well.
Just days before Sergei was last seen (as regular Blogmirers know, I don’t believe that Sergei went anywhere near Salisbury Hospital that day). I think Sergei knew he was going to disappear but he wasn’t expecting that anything would happen to Yulia.
What he probably didn’t take into account was that Yulia would become a dangerous witness against the TPTB’s crimes that day.
Curiouser and Curiouser !
Link to Viktoria’s statement about the general power of attorney:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sergei-skripals-daughter-poisoned-just-12292621
Denise, the article (or Victoria) does not say that.
All it says, and that has been long known, is that Yulia got power of attorney of her brother’s account (inherited by her father) in a Russian bank.
And this might be the reason for the tension in the family as I assume Skripal’s mother (cared for by Victoria) would be entitled to part of the inheritance but not Yulia.
Skripal earned surprisingly little for giving valuable information so I suppose he has his money in Spanish or Maltese offshore accounts. And obviously he would give Yulia power of attorney for these accounts.
These accounts may have been the reason Borishov and Petrov were in Salisbury and these accounts (and Sergejs Spanish or Maltese business partners) may have been the reason they got attacked.
There must be a reason the metropolitan police are looking into this again
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/apr/04/scot-young-assets-offshore-accounts
Hi Anidea, The story does say Viktoria said Yulia received a ‘general’ power of attorney, which in the UK means an ‘ordinary power of attorney’. I do know that there could be a translation problem and that the unreliable MSM is involved but –
“An Ordinary Power of Attorney gives another person authority to act on your behalf for a temporary time period.
But as soon as you lose mental capacity, the Ordinary Power of Attorney will expire. This means it’s not suitable if you need someone to manage your affairs after you’ve lost the ability to do it yourself.
This option is most useful if you temporarily want someone to make decisions for you – for example, while recovering from an injury or during an extended overseas trip.”
I think Sergei may have known that he was going overseas somewhere soon and the Yulia trip might have been to say good bye.
From:
https://www.which.co.uk/money/wills-and-probate/power-of-attorney/what-is-power-of-attorney-anlkg0k94v7z
““At the end of February, Yulia received a general power of attorney from her father Sergei in order to take ownership of a secret bank account that belonged to her late brother Alexander.”
Power of attorney in Russia
https://www.lawyersrussia.com/power-of-attorney-in-russia
“The Russian power of attorney must specify the activities the agent is allowed to carry on behalf of the donor.”
add – from the same link
” There are several types of powers of attorney which can be issued in Russia:
– the general power of attorney which is granted for representation in general matters, such as transactions or conclusion of contracts;
– the special power of attorney which is limited to a certain type of action or situation;
– the temporary power of attorney which has a limited duration.
”
So “full use of a bank account” would be “general power of attorney”
Hi Anidea, Thank you, I’m not arguing, just learning.
From your link, wouldn’t a ‘specific’ power of attorney be required not a ‘general’ power of attorney if it was limited to just Alexandr’s bank account.
Viktoria does say a ‘general’ power of attorney which would allow a much larger range of activities to be undertaken on Sergei’s behalf?
I meant ‘special’ not specific Anidea
Assuming Yulia has a power of attorney of some sort over Sergei affairs while he is alive. If Sergei dies Yulia would be the next of kin and would inherit everything, if there was no will saying otherwise, anyway?
She would have to share with the grandmother.
https://www.expatica.com/ru/finance/taxes/russian-inheritance-law-and-writing-a-russian-will-1040746/
“There is an order of statutory inheritance with heirs divided into eight groups. The whole estate is divided between all surviving heirs of the highest available group. Heirs from lower groups only inherit if there are no surviving members of higher groups, or if everyone from higher groups has rejected their share. The groups are as follows:
Group 1 – children, spouse and parents
Group 2 – siblings (both full and half) and grandparents
Group 3 – aunts and uncles
Group 4–8 – more distant relatives, step-children, step-parents, disabled dependants.”
How is this power of attorney given technically ?
Is it possible that Sergei send a letter to Yulia or must there be a notary document ?
I guess a British notary can do it. Or the Russian embassy.
I am no Russian lawyer.
As I read it – general – can do all transactions with the bank account.
Specific/special whatever – can do a named transaction with the bank account.
That is also the significance of Sergej Skripal being dead or not.
If he dies before the grandmother part of his estate will go to the grandmother. When the grandmother dies, Yulia will be in the same class of inheritors as Victoria.
If he dies after the grandmother all will go to Yulia.
” … as I assume Skripal’s mother (cared for by Victoria) would be entitled to part of the inheritance but not Yulia.”
Why would Yelena expect to inherit part of her grandson’s estate, if he died intestate?
In UK terms, Sasha’s father would inherit his estate if there was no Will, and it seems that Yulia has been given authority, in the form of power of attorney, to (help) manage her father’s inheritance.
See Russian inheritance law above.
Yelena is Sergei Skripal’s mother, her grandson’s estate is now Sergei’s estate.
But Sergei Skripal owns more that that.
Thanks, anidea, but everyone seems to be assuming that Sergei will not not made a Will. That Yulia may have recently been given power of attorney may no more than suggest that Sergei had recently been putting his own affairs in order, particularly in the aftermath of Sasha’s untimely and possibly intestate death.
For Sergei as a UK resident, UK inheritance law would apply. But he might also have needed to arrange his overseas financial affairs.
My simplistic understanding is that Russian inheritance law might only apply to what is held in Russia, for as long as he remained resident in another country.
That’s the interesting question where Sergei Skripal’s assets are.
Skripal is supposed to have looked for business when in Spain in the 1990’s. Russian business then involved shell companies and money laundering.
Spain is now moving aggressively against these schemes.
https://www.europol.europa.eu/newsroom/news/russian-money-laundering-criminal-network-dismantled
When the Soviet State fell apart Skripal might have worked for some Russian oligarch eg Berezovsky, apart from working for MI6. Similar to Litvinenko.
So if he had still “business” in Spain, Yulia would know about it and have power of attorney.
That might be the reason the assassins had to wait for Yulia to visit for the strike.
There is a contradiction in what Victoria is quoted as saying “secret” “bank account in Russia”
If the bank account is in Russia, it is not secret.
It is also significant that Victoria knows about it. According to Mark Urban’s book the family helped when Sergei was in prison. For sure Sergei helped back when he was in Britain at least supporting his mother.
It is possible that the attack in Salisbury made things financially difficult for Victoria.
And it is significant that Victoria received threats.
It really depends on from whom it was secret:
The tax authorities, in England and/or Russia,
Viktoria and/or Yelena,
Sergei and/or Yulia,
Who else?
For any English language legal documents to be accepted in Russia requires a notarised translation. I’d presume the reverse applies for Russian documents to be accepted in Britain.
I wonder who Sergei’s UK solicitor is?
Presumably he and Yulia had some representation when the hospital went to court to get permission to take blood samples.
That would be an official solicitor
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/sshd-v-skripal-and-another-20180322.pdf
Yep.
In all the deaths of Berezovsky connected people the ones who must have gained were the ones administrating their hidden cash.
Incidentally these people are the ones most interested in British Russian conflict.
This here was Berezovsky’s solicitor
https://www.notarypubliccentrallondon.org.uk/
https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/sdt-fines-berezovsky-solicitor-over-fee-deal-for-abramovich-case
Is he related to Salisbury’s mayor?
“Military in biohazard suits remove windows at home of ex-spy Sergei Skripal in ‘deep clean’ to remove potential traces of radioactive material after Russian poison attack”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6584645/Military-biohazard-suits-remove-windows-home-ex-spy-Sergei-Skripal-deep-clean.html
The Skripal house has radioactive material on the windows as well as Novichok on the door handle?
Radioactive PVC Windows. What is going on? Is Guy with
back to camera-baseball cap,backpack,dark clothes one of
the missing Gang Of 7-6-8-5 lost count?
Has he just found 47 CMR after wandering around Salisbury
since 03-03-18.
Where has radioactive type-stuff come from or have I missed
something. Now very Confused?
I am afraid its silly season again in the press and I will explain later in some detail why
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6585263/Damning-new-evidence-Dr-Kelly-DIDNT-commit-suicide.html
There is no New Evidence in this article but the old damning evidence is still hidden.
The puncture wound in Kelly’s arse seems to have been misplaced.
I believe Hutton actually honestly believed the lie that he was told, that Kelly had died from a Cardiac Arrest whilst in a “Safe” House being interrogated by US Security Figures about what else he had blabbed about.
This transfer of “Knowledge” empowers pricks like Hutton, and in fairness it did seem a good reason to him that a lid should be kept on the matter. Regardless of how incompetently (but with regal patronage) he set about presenting the ludicrous pack of lies that we saw.
The same trick has been performed with Skripal to less effect, the Cover Upperers think they have been told a “truth” that must never be told.
Its bollocks!
The How
“As to the method used, I am told that they gave Dr Kelly an injection in his backside, which perhaps points to the use of succinylcholine, a white crystalline substance that acts as a muscle relaxant.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488947/Did-hired-assassins-snatch-weapons-inspector-David-Kelly.html
From the post mortem report
Right Lower Limb
“Punctate, reddened lesion 01cms across, on the outer aspect of the upper thigh
(Page 7 Ends)”
(It wasn’t Iraq’s lying in wait that jabbed him, Baker modified the plot for his own safety)
The Why
Kelly had been blabbing US secrets (at the behest of Mi6 insiders), he was writing a book, he had been highly indiscrete with a female US Intelligence Officer (Mai Pederson) and his relationship with journalists was rather loose cannonish. Six weeks before he died Bush had gone on the telly and announced to the world that the Smoking Gun of Saddam’s WMD had been found in the form of Mobile Bio Weapon Labs in Iraq, Kelly was sent to inspect them and confirm the veracity of what the President had said. Instead Kelly went and had a look and then immediately ‘phoned Judith Miller on the NYT and told her the President was talking bollocks, the story was printed the following day. The last Straw however came from Jack Straw in the week before Kelly’s death, Straw had a public falling out with the boss of the CIA when Straw refused to share French intelligence with the US, they exchanged mutual insults in the press. Britain had become an Intelligence liability to the US.
I will elaborate more if anyone is interested.
Kelly’s PM report
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110628102955/http://www.attorneygeneral.gov.uk/Publications/Pages/DrKelly.aspx
The pathologist was not telling all the truth or he remembered stuff several years later that hadn’t occurred to him at the time.
“Kelly pathologist demands inquest: Law chief to act after doctor insists ‘I’ve got nothing to hide’”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1305159/Dr-David-Kelly-pathologist-Nicholas-Hunt-demands-inquest-Ive-hide.html
From the above article
“Dr Hunt says that unknown to Dr Kelly, he was suffering from a severe form of heart disease – atherosclerosis – which had left his arteries as little as a fifth as wide as normal. This left him at constant risk of heart attack and more likely to die from a slashed wrist, as his heart had reduced ability to survive sudden blood loss. If he had dropped dead in the canteen and you had seen his coronary arteries, you would have had a very good reason to believe that was the only reason he died. If you have narrow arteries, your ability to withstand blood loss falls dramatically.’”
From PM report
Conclusion
“11 It is noted that he has a significant degree of coronary artery disease and this may have played some small part in the rapidity of death but not the major cause of the cause of death.”
From the Daily Mail Article
“Dr Hunt says: ‘As a forensic pathologist whenever you arrive at a scene you treat it as a homicide until you can be satisfied you’ve excluded that.’ Accordingly, in eight hours of examination he sought any signs of injury to Dr Kelly indicating that he might have been manhandled or drugged by someone else.
‘We look at every millimetre of skin. We’re looking for any needle puncture marks and so forth, any sign of skulduggery – between the fingers, the toes, under the nose, behind the ears, here, there and everywhere.
‘There wasn’t anything. You look through every muscle layer, particularly the neck to see if there’s any evidence that it has been compressed, any signs of trauma on the ribs and any broken bone. There were none at all.’”
From the PM Report
Right Lower Limb
“Punctate, reddened lesion 01cms across, on the outer aspect of the upper thigh”
Forget for a moment that Dr Hunt doesn’t know his left from his right, upper from lower or possibly his arse from his elbow, he was being dishonest, whether that was in the PM Report or the DM article but his final comment at the Hutton inquiry tells you quite a lot.
Q. Is there anything else you would like to say concerning the circumstances leading to Dr Kelly’s death?
A. Nothing I could say as a pathologist, no.
LORD HUTTON: Thank you for your very clear evidence, Dr Hunt.
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20090128222220/http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/transcripts/hearing-trans33.htm
I do not share the ideas that Petrov & Boshirov had some business or contacts with the Skripals. Some of my thoughts on P&B can be read here:
https://www.theblogmire.com/where-was-detective-sergeant-nicholas-bailey-poisoned/#comment-19387
I think it is important to remember about Sergei Fedotov, their GRU colleague, who in January-February 2014 travelled to Prague together with Petrov and who travelled to the UK in March of 2016, 2017 and 2018. For some reason, the British authorities and media forgot about the so-called “third man” whom they were going to disclose a few months ago, but did not do that. Maybe, if Fedotov had been included in the “Novichok” narrative, some inconvenient questions would have arisen and thus TPTB preferred to do without him. As I see it, Fedotov brings a calendar factor in the story of P&B. There was a reason why he travelled to the UK in March of 2016, 2017 and 2018. My hypothesis (it may be wrong) is that he was moonlighting as a courier to deliver a shadowy annual report from a business in Russia to the UK-based owner of that business. The business’ financial year ends in February and in March its managers in Russia send a report to the business’ owner to inform him how, for instance, they minimize taxes in some illicit ways.
According to the Czech radio (see the link I provided), when Petrov and Boshirov visited the Czech Republic in October 2014 (NOT at the same time when Skripal was in Prague), “their visit was later a subject of interest not only of Czech intelligence service, but also the National Center for Combatting Organized Crime (NCOZ).” As well, visits of shadowy business couriers to the UK have been likely well known to British intelligence service. Thus, the organizers of the Skripal poisoning, who, I believe, either belonged to an intelligence agency or had intelligence connections, could have lured Russian business couriers to Salisbury by imitating a need in delivering financial documents. This is, a fake “oligarch” placed an order with GRU-serving, moonlighting couriers to collect certain documents in Salisbury and deliver them to Moscow. In Salisbury, someone could have performed as an “assistant” to the “oligarch”. He handed P&B a memory stick, as if with financial documents. Some pretext was made up for their coming twice. In Moscow, P&B placed the memory stick in a left-luggage office and their work was over.
It is possible , what is unlikely is that Petrov & Boshirov are GRU.
Financial year in Russia finishes 31 December, BTW
The financial year of a particular business may end any month.
Tax year for businesses ends in December, but deadline for tax returns is end of March.
“Compliance for corporations:
Tax year – Calendar year.
(…)
Filing requirements – The annual profits tax return must be filed by 28 March after the close of the previous tax year.”
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-russiahighlights-2018.pdf
Actually there different types of annual fiscal reports in Russia, as far as I can see, most of them due 30 April
https://tvoi.biz/buhgalteriya/ip/otchety-sdannye-v-srok-zalog-uspeshno.html
“Каждый год всем предпринимателям (это касается, в частности, ИП), имеющим собственный бизнес, требуется сдавать отчет, в состав которого входят:
Декларация в налоговую службу – до 30 апреля.
Декларации об уплате сельскохозяйственного налога до 31 марта и об уплате земельного налога до 1 февраля (при наличии необходимости подачи подобного рода документов).
Декларация по налогу на доходы, а также о предполагаемых доходах в будущем году – эти сведения необходимо предоставить до 30 апреля.”
The link I give also mentions 30 April but that applies to individuals, not corporations. Your excerpt refers to ‘entrepreneurs’.
If someone is sent to the UK to get documents signed or exchanged, it’s more likely they would be doing so for a company or someone who owns a company, than a lone individual.
“Compliance for individuals:
Tax year – Calendar year
Filing and payment – Tax on employment income is withheld by the employer and remitted to the tax authorities. In certain cases, individuals must report their income by filing a tax return no later than 30 April following the year of assessment, with any tax outstanding due by 15 July. “
Interesting times.
BBC and Sky TV made a big deal about one protester being arrested.
Almost no reference to two London demonstrations this afternoon.
At least George made sure his Evening Standard covered the events.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/london/yellow-vest-protests-in-london-antiausterity-activists-and-probrexit-demonstrators-march-on-streets-a4037151.html%3famp
Is our news really so strictly manipulated by the media?
Don’t answer.
Spanish “Russian mafia” trial (opened in February before the Skripal case) ens with acquitals
https://themoscowtimes.com/news/spain-acquits-group-russians-suspected-mafia-ties-63239
https://consortiumnews.com/2019/01/10/covert-british-military-smear-machine-moving-into-us/?mc_cid=dc0e4e878e&mc_eid=91b97c0a92
Yep. Some people seem to be desparate to remain relevant in the transantlantic relationship.
Excellent summary Rob! I’ve missed your regular Skripal updates and hope we’ll hear your thoughts on developments from time to time. I just want to add a couple of my own thoughts to peter’s posts below around the places where “novichok” has allegedly been found. No explanation from the police as to why traces would be found in the London hotel room. Are they implying that the bottle leaked prior to the so called attack? Or that the “assassins” got some of it on themselves while doing their doorknob smearing (maybe they used their hands to do said smearing?) and brought it back with them. Really?! Secondly, how do they know exactly where to do their swabbing (as we’re helpfully told by the bbc that this is the only way to detect Novichok). Not just in the hotel room but ANYWHERE. The possible number of swab-sized locations is infinite. I’m just wondering if they’ve tried using, or have been trying to develop, suitable chemical threat detection systems by companies such as chemring.
http://www.chemring.co.uk/~/media/Files/C/Chemring-V2/PDFs/Sensors%20brochure.pdf
Somebody has to be making lots of money from this somewhere.
Btw, probably completely unrelated, did it ever come out as to why there was a fatal explosion at chemring plant close to PD, just after novichok found in CR’s flat? Just curious. Probably coincidence
Don’t encourage them. They might decide to bury all the trains that run between London and Salisbury in case they are contaminated with Novichok.
No Trains today due Novihoax Contamination. Makes change from
Leaf On Line-Wrong Type Of Head Winds-Driver Got Teabag In Eye..
LOL
Ditto! But seriously, now we are being led to believe that skripal’s house is so contaminated that the roof and Windows are having to be removed and presumably destroyed. Is there a statement from defra or any other official body to give a rationale as to why? How could these parts of the house even potentially get contaminated? By the police? By the pets? What’s completely lacking in the official narrative is, well, a narrative! They, or the MSM, don’t even attempt to try to join the many “dots”.
Indeed, if the inside of the house was as contaminated as they are trying to make us believe, it follows that cats are immune to the effects of novichok. Who’d have thought!
They have to be desperately looking for something!
Hi all
Anthony asked : “What would P&B carry from Russia that Yulia could not?”
I though about it a lot. The only thing I came up with – was precious metals. And this theory:
Yulia & Stepan Vikeev wanted to start a family ( children) but they also needed good income , So an idea of a new business may crossed their minds – selling Norilsk Nickel’s palladium &/or platinum , for example, through Sergey’s alleged connections in UK. For a percentage from sales. Palladium price is $42,975 / per kg. Platinum is expensive too.
IMO, P&B could have brought samples from Norisk Nickel.
Stepan’s mother did not want to give Yulia the samples as she did not trust her … Or somebody from Skripal’s prospective buyers (with Mi6 contacts) suggested that it “was dangerous for Yulia to carry such a valuable cargo”(thus setting a trap for P&B).
Russian business is all about “connections”. But all connections that Skripal had after leaving Russia, all his contacts – were from Mi6. Or with Russian criminal expats, there are a lot of them in UK.
IMO, as he wanted the idea to work, he may even asked crooks like Browder , Akhmed Zakaev, etc. to help him.
So, Stepan’s mother [or somebody from Norilsk Nickel who was interested in the idea] hired a couple of muscly couriers to carry samples.. They also brought contracts to sign and to take back to Moscow.
BTW, one of Norilsk Nickel’s specialized guards & couriers for hire company’s number is the same as Stepan Vikeev’s mother’s economic security company. And its employees look as muscly as P&B.
Though its unclear, did Sergey really want the business for Yulia work or it was MI6 operation from the start, I think he did want it to work- it would allow Yulia to be able to come to UK more often. And she will have money for that. And it would change his life of a pensioner to a life of a prosperous businessman.
But, even if he really wanted to help his daughter, this exchange would be a red flag for Mi6. Its reasonable to suppose that his house had listening devices and his communications were monitored by Mi6 . So, Mi6 set the trap for B&P, and through them – for Norilsk Nicke’s, Potanin and Deripaska.
B&P did not do anything illegal, they brought samples & papers. For them it was an easy trip. They were really Petrov & Boshirov, not very bright but strong couriers and not GRU agents, of course. But they couldn’t admit this as owners of Norilsk Nickel said not to involve them for obvious reasons, knowing that MI6 will try to pin Skripals poisoning on them.
So , in the interview to RT, B&P had to use as their “business” what they knew best- the bodybuilding supplies. They did not have enough brains to lie successfully about anything else and did not have enough time to prepare a better version.
As Norilsk Nickel 25% owned by Deripaska & 25% by Potanin , who are well known in Russia,
after FSB found out who B&P were, FSB told Putin’s staff , so Putin told Deripaska & Potanin to present P&B, immediately.
P&B were visibly unhappy and did not hide it. No more trips abroad for the pair for no fault of their own.
As Mi6/police insist that they have all necessary “evidence”, they may have photos of them closer to Skripals house , but most likely B, P & Skripals met away from his house, somewhere on Wilton road & Skripals gave them a lift to the Cathedral. So UK does not have more CCTV videos , especially videos of P&B near Skripal’s door handle. & that’s why we did not see the CCTV photos of B&P going back towards the town centre either on Devizer’s rd or on Witon street, or Fisherton street.
After B&P visited the cathedral, they walked from the cathedral back & were filmed by the CCTV cameras on the Bridge street and Summerlock approach.
Why did UK only publish photos of Petrov & Boshirov and info about them exactly 6 month and ONE day after the poisoning? Because banks have to store CCTV materials exactly for 6 months. There were quite a few ATM’s and banks on High street where P&B were to walk back from the Cathedral. Mi6 did not want them to surface.
B&P might even waited for Skripals in the Malting car park to say bye, as Summerlock approach leads to Maltings car park where Skripals parked.
Skripal may have agreed with some of his “connections” to pass the samples to them later in the day, somewhere in the pub. That’s why Skripal was so agitated- he had a meeting but his order in Zizzi was late . In this case they were poisoned when they passed the papers & the samples.
This is only a theory.
Evidence has been destroyed & or hidden by UK, Skripals will not talk.
As Julia’s boyfriend got spooked and moved out, leaving her with broken heart, nothing much was left for her in Moscow, apart from the dog. She could not leave her farther.
Mi6 promised her that this “transgression” will be forgotten and her father will be OK if she said and did what she was told.
They may even found her somebody from Mi5/6 to mend the broken heart. And even some work nearby. Her father is most likely under house arrest and cannot even call his mother.
IMO, Mi6 prepared for this operation in advance when Yulia told Sergey about the idea of a business. . Mark Urban started to collect materials on Skripal 1/2 year before the alleged poisoning to be ready when Skripals will be “poisoned”.
He made a killing with his book.
Yulia had to be poisoned together with her father as she knew about the real reason B&P arrived
to Salisbury the day Yulia arrived there. (Skripals were late on the 3rd driving from the airport because of the snow. So they met the next day )
Maybe Skripals were not suppose to survive. Theresa May was sure they would not. How did they survive and why Yulia became better straight after OPCW took the samples? Maybe they survived because OPCW offered a new treatment. But most likely they were not poisoned with Novichok, trace amounts of Novichok may have been used to treat BZ poisoning, nerve agents are potent antidotes to BZ. It was an unproven treatment, so Porton Down’s trained doctors did not know exact amount of Novichok to use as antidote and did not know that Skripals would survive. But they did. And “pure” Novichok was found in their blood.
This theory seems to fit most facts…
“What would P&B carry from Russia that Yulia could not?”
Buckwheat Porridge and Bay Leaves?
Yulia would be easily overpowered and stuff robbed from her.
For that not to happen Borishov and Petrov “always went together”
But if – a big IF – they delivered stuff to Skripal – he either would have opened the door to them – or if – also a big IF – he did not wish to be seen when receiving it, that would explain the phones turned off.
According to this theory Skripals were attacked to rob them, and Borishov and Petrov were followed.
Which might explain the strange CCTV published by the police.
“According to anonymous sources cited by the 1 September 2018 New York Times′s report, Deripaska was twice approached by the U.S. government officials, including Bruce Ohr, as part of the U.S. government wider FBI–led recruitment effort to obtain informers in the circle close to Vladimir Putin: in September 2015 and in September 2016. Ohr, then a United States Department of Justice official, was reported to have been in contact with the former employee of the British secret service MI6 Christopher Steele, who later compiled the incriminating dossiers on Donald Trump, and discussed cultivating Deripaska, among others.
In September 2015, Ohr and Steele met with Deripaska to discuss “connections between Russian organized crime and Mr. Putin’s government, as well as other issues, according to a person familiar with the events.” Deripaska laughed them off and did not agree to a second meeting. Nevertheless, F.B.I. agents showed up unannounced at Deripaska’s door in New York in September 2016.
The attempts to turn Deripaska into an informant undertaken between 2014 and 2016 were unsuccessful, Deripaska notified the Russian authorities of the US efforts to recruit him.
In September 2018, Russia’s government accused the US of meddling in the country’s affairs by attempting to recruit Russian citizens as agents for American security services.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Deripaska
This actually might be a motive for someone to attack Skripals – though I suppose it cuts both ways.
See you in another life – Titov’s list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueaMaDUWBGw
In the MSM, Deripaska was characterised as “Putin’s close associate and ‘pal'”. Watching this video, one would wonder about that claim. Anyway, amusing video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL6sgdNACuE
Russian oligarchs wishing to do business in Russia depend on Putin. It is nothing personal.
I don’t think Putin enjoys Russian “tycoons” taking each other to court in London whilst washing dirty Russian laundry.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-russia-nornickel-rusal-court/london-court-backs-deripaska-in-battle-of-russian-tycoons-idUKKBN1JN246
The US now forced Deripaska to withdraw from control
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-russia-sanctions-rusal-exclusive/exclusive-russias-deripaska-prepares-to-cede-control-of-rusal-en-sources-idUSKCN1OI26Y
What sanctions on Deripaska – Rusal – would mean
https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/sanctions-crisis-threatens-60-000-workers-and-putin-needs-a-plan#gs.B3pdjZYI
US Democrats for full economic war against Russia
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/12/05/british-companies-owned-russian-oligarchs-investigated-us-congress/
Deripaska is serious business for London
http://johnhelmer.net/unexplained-wealth-opera-oleg-deripaska-vladimir-chernukhin-and-lolita-danilina-sing-in-london/
“Oleg Deripaska has been in love, tough love, with the High Court in London for years. That’s to say, he regards the court as one of his personal appendages with which to pummel his rivals into doing what he demands. Since 2005 the court record shows Deripaska has been a principal, plaintiff or defendant, in 95 cases. That represents an average of more than seven Deripaska cases per year; one case every two months.”
add – and secret services
from the same John Helmer link
“Two other things stand out in the case. One is that it is the first time a British court has exposed the illegality of an intelligence report by C, chief of the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6). Actually, a report by Sir John Scarlett (C between 2004 and 2009) who retired to operate his own private intelligence agency called SC. Scarlett was hired by Chernukhin to compile a dossier on Danilina proving she had been no more than Chernukhin’s front, and is now Deripaska’s front. The court acknowleged the likelihood that Scarlett’s report was a violation of Danilina’s information privacy.”
and there is this
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/skripal-russian-web-or-rusi-web
In early August 2008, according to a former British soldier who spoke to me some years after the event, and who provided verifying details which satisfied me, a group of ex-military snipers including that source was taken to Tskhinvali to provoke Georgia’s war with Russia over South Ossetia. They were commanded by a former very senior MI6 officer whose name he disclosed to me. The commander in question had recently beforehand been in the direct chain of authority between Sir John Scarlett and Christopher Steele.
Thanks Elena,
I find this particular observation of yours very very interesting:
“Why did UK only publish photos of Petrov & Boshirov and info about them exactly 6 month and ONE day after the poisoning? Because banks have to store CCTV materials exactly for 6 months.”
Why I find it so interesting is that I distinctly recall that there was media speculation for at least a couple of weeks before P&B were revealed that The Met was about to reveal some suspects. And yet desipite these reports, nothing happened for quite a while, so much so, that I began to be very skeptical about their veracity. But your observation may well be the explanation for that, and if so, could well be further confirmation that The Met has only provided very selective CCTV of the men, as other footage would destroy their case.
Best wishes,
Rob
Rob, I don’t know your background, but mine is in telecommunications, computers and IT.
Banks storing CCTV is a legal requirement, it does not necessarily imply that the material WILL be destroyed exactly on that expiry date. I know a bit about off-site storage mechanisms and technology due to my background and I would assume (I don’t know for certain because I was only concerned with databases and financial records) that CCTV records are similarly archived and stored offsite.
So, for those records to be destroyed at exactly the moment that 6 months have expired would require active intervention on the keepers of those records and I would suggest, based on the above, that this is very unlikely.
This ‘after 6 months’ argument is, to me, standing on cloud (not a pun) like foundations.
They might have waited till their visa expired. Actually, they said that they hoped they would turn up again.
“They might have waited till their visa expired.”
Absolutely, anidea, six months and a day after 4 March means that all and any visas would have expired.
It’s certainly possible that increased scrutiny procedures were immediately brought into effect, for both new and repeat visa applications, once it was known that something had happened to Sergei Skripal.
Anidea, standard visa to UK for Russians – 30 days.
http://guide.travel.ru/united_kingdom/formalities/visas/
Only student visa lasts 6 months
You may be right, elena, but it’s six months according to the gov.uk website:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-v-visitor-rules
I checked it on the UK Embassy in Russia website, 30 days .
There are maybe different rules for Russia, China, etc countries and other countries?
The security services scooped up all that CCTV. I enquired of a jewellers on the P&B route.
The only wonder is Dauwalders footage got out.
You are most likely right, but do those who planned the operation work in banks’ IT too? I researched the interment and found the term 6 months. I imagine, Mi6 could call the banks on High street and asked whether they keep the records longer, but this seems somehow unlikely.
@ Elena.
It’s not a matter of “whether they keep their records longer”. There is an inertia in all of these technological processes, things (in a similar manner to the unreality of the available oxygen in a confined space suddenly disappearing at some assigned moment – think men trapped in submarines dramas) to not ceast to exist at some assigned instant.
Organizations, such as financial institutions (which, in the UK, are required to keep records for up to 7 years by law) WILL have processes in place to comply with that requirement, BUT that does not imply that they will, on the instant of 7 years passing, then invoke a team of data assassins to go an destroy any remaining remnants of that data, instead they will just not bother to ensure that it is preserved.
The police had already leaked lots of details about P&B to the media in July, a month and a half before publicly identifying them. What they revealed was more than enough for Russia to know that P&B should not take the risk of travelling abroad and getting arrested. The media reports (from 19 July) were of two Russian GRU agents who flew back to Moscow soon after the attack:
“Police have identified two suspects in the poisoning of former Russian double agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN on Thursday.
The pair left the UK in the wake of the attack on what is believed to have been a commercial flight, the source added.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/19/uk/novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified-intl/index.html
“The perpetrators are believed to be members of the GRU military intelligence service and were not known to MI6 until the Salisbury nerve agent attack, a senior security source has claimed.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5969197/Skripal-Novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified.html
“They (the investigators) are sure they (the suspects) are Russian.”
https://www.itv.com/news/2018-07-19/skripal-novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified/
After that leak, there was no further reason for not telling the public about the suspects (who must have known that they were identified and would not risk getting arrested by travelling abroad). But the Met withheld P&B’s names until September, and this was justified by saying that the assassins might not suspect they were caught in the act.
It is possible British police did not wish to arrest them.
In the case of an arrest there would have to be a trial.
It is possible the British (or Americans?) lured them to Wilton Road to do some business there, purely to frame them by placing them near Sergei’s home. If they did, it worked – the Shell station image is now widely accepted by the media as proof of P&B’s guilt.
““The perpetrators are believed to be members of the GRU military intelligence service and were not known to MI6 until the Salisbury nerve agent attack, a senior security source has claimed.”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5969197/Skripal-Novichok-poisoning-suspects-identified.html”
From the same link:
“They also know they were travelling under ‘fresh identities’ back to Russia after cross-referencing their aliases with the commercial flight’s manifest.”
Is this supposed to mean that when they departed from Heathrow, PnB weren’t travelling as Petrov and Boshirov? Or did they land at Gatwick as PnB, and presumably used the London hotel in the names of PnB, but might have adopted their ‘fresh identities’ for any other interactions during their time in England?
(Sorry if this is only new news to me.)
The Mail might be misinterpreting what’s meant by “fresh identities”. The CNN’s source gives a different meaning:
“Using facial recognition technology, authorities discovered two “fresh identities” — individuals not known to have been spies or used in other attacks — the source added.”
The Mail also gets the date of the return flight wrong, although it is right about being from Heathrow.
“MailOnline can reveal that the same plane also flew from London to Moscow on March 5 – the day after the assassination attempt on the Skripals”.
It’s hard to know when journalists are making things up just to create a story, but this other piece of ‘information’ from the Mail is interesting:
“Detectives have traced them from Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury – where they dumped the Novichok poison – to the UK airport they flew from, which is believed to be Heathrow.”
There’s an enhanced version of Chinese whispers that seems to pervade that article, Brendan, for an incident where Chinese whispers is the default technique.
Thank you very much Rob,
Your blog is excellent – the only comprehensive coverage of Skripal alleged poisoning published so far .
Cascader has some doubts about this point though.
Elena
Sorry, Cascadian not Cascader
Elena
I see a problem with this. The metal samples would be detected by metal detectors at the airport.
However, if MI56 were involved, they could have arranged special treatment for B&P at the airport. This might be why they went through the gates without any other passengers in sight.
It’s also worth stating the obvious, that the alleged weapon (Premier Jour) is contained entirely within glass, plastic and paper. No metal involved, apart maybe from some foil veneer on the packaging.
Sorry Eleanor, I do not think that B&P carried the perfume bottle in the first place.
The bottle appeared much later, in June- when government failed to convince that Skripals were poisoned with deadly Novichok, but no one died from it , including cats .
So, whoever was in charge of the operation decided to plant the bottle to have that victim among drug addicts people on a dole. Does anyone buying into the theory that the bottle was in a bin behind the charity shop for 3.5 months and surfaced for Charlie to notice after that? It was placed there in June.
The bottle “was placed there in June.”
………………………..
I don’t think that the bottle was placed anywhere. I think the tale of the perfume bottle was invented in July. Charlie was instructed to tell the story to the public, but he was a poor story-teller. In particular, he told about the cellophane wrapping, which, I guess, was his own initiative, and he was not sure where he “found” the bottle.
That’s why I called it the ‘alleged weapon’, Elena, and I don’t think the item found in the kitchen of Charlie’s home in Amesbury was imported by either PnB or Yulia. Even if I’m mistaken about this, then there’s nothing imo to implicate the bottle with the flight arrivals of 2nd or 3rd of March.
My point was about the non-metal container and packaging for the substance that was found in Amesbury.
I don’t really know where it came from and how it got there and, I suspect, nor does Charlie.
except that it was made to look as if it could have been smuggled in by plane (by Yulia)
I see, I am not sure how large the sample can be to be stopped at the airport, sorry.
Never tried to smuggle anything illegal 🙂
It could have been disguised as something else…
https://williambowles.info/2019/01/12/how-a-neocon-backed-fact-checker-plans-to-wage-war-on-independent-media-by-whitney-webb/
Rob makes the excellent point that HMG’s response to Russia attacking mainland Britain with the world’s most lethal military grade nerve agent in a quantity that could have killed thousands was …
…. utterly inadequate.
But so too was Russia’s reaction to HMG’s transparent lies about what has happened to two of their citizens.
And the lying game continues.
An example of which is emphasised by the bizarre Met publishing of the photographs of the two Russian suspects in security corridor(s) at Gatwick airport both photographed at the same position in the corridor at the same second.
We all know that it does not make a jot of difference if they went through the same corridor at different times or is they went through different corridors at the same time. It doesn’t matter to the police investigation, to the public or the Russian pair.
But the Met wanted to make a big deal of it. They invited scrutiny and got it.
However the Russian pair went on the television and did an interview, in that interview they challenged the Met’s version of events regarding the photographs;
“Why were the CCTV pictures at Gatwick timestamped the same?
Petrov: How can we explain this? You need to ask them.
Boshirov: We always go together, through the same corridor, through the same customs agent, through the same police officer, one goes through, the other waits, we went through the corridor together, we’re always together.
You’d better ask them why we’re seen at the same second, at the same time, but separately.
Petrov: We go together because my English is a little better, and if there are any problems I help Ruslan. If we could remember how it was.
Boshirov: I don’t know how they do it. When you fly in and out, visiting different places, you never pay attention to the camera, because it’s not interesting, how they’re filming, where they’re filming, I’m not interested in this and I didn’t pay attention to this. But if they printed these photos at that time then better ask them.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/13/skripal-suspects-interview-read-full-transcript/
I will reiterate, it does not matter to anyone, including the Russian pair, if they went through the same corridor or different ones but the pair brazenly challenged the Met’s account as a lie with the implication that the Met had falsified the evidence.
This is a very serious charge because if the Met has falsified the photographs they could have falsified other evidence and hidden evidence in order to frame the pair for a crime they did not commit.
In fairness to the Russians the case against them is so weak there still has been no charges brought for the death of Dawn Sturgess because (as has been reported) a source close to the case in the Met has said there is insufficient evidence.
Indeed the only evidence that the Met has published (or leaked) is farcically thin. Traces of Novichok found in the Russian’s hotel room (after several months) but when rechecked they could find none. Traces of Novichok in the toilets at Queen Elizabeth Gardens (after several more months) but as the Russians were not seen there. There is a Council CCTV Camera in the car park where the toilets are situated, it is only a few yards from the toilets and overlooks them.
Charlie Rowley had not used these toilets either and his “Novichok” had been unopened. It was in a vacuum sealed plastic wrapper “like a packet of bacon” and had to be cut open with a knife, That packet of perfume left no contamination at Dawns house in Salisbury or on the bus that took Charlie and Dawn to Amesbury.
So how were the toilets contaminated with Novichok? Was this another example of potential fabrication of evidence?
The charges against the police are very real and very serious, they could easily have settled the Gatwick Security Corridor Mystery very simply by publishing the CCTV footage of the pair entering the corridors and emerging at the other end, there are CCTV cameras watching both the entries and the exits. This was put to the police in a Freedom of Information Request by a Patric Grundy.
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/petrov_and_boshirov_gatwick_airp
Mr Grundy asked;
“Could you release additional frames showing the two individuals transiting through Gatwick airport and specifically via these gates.”
The Met refused this part of the request on the grounds of Ongoing Investigation / National Security / Security Considerations.
This says a great deal but when you consider the original Sept 5th Met Statement that contained the Gatwick Corridor Mystery Photograhs it also contained proof that the Met deliberately lied about the time of a train that the pair caught from Salisbury to London on Saturday 3rd March.
There are no charges in connection with Dawns death so there is nobody to question but the police must now answer questions why they have not been straight with the public and published deliberately false information and withheld unreasonably CCTV evidence that would reveal the truth about what happened at Gatwick, the Train Station, the Bench and all the other places that the Russia pair and the Skripals went.
Until the police and government come clean about the truth of what actually happened and provide the evidence then it is they that are in the Dock of the Court of Public Opinion, not the Russians.
5th Sept Police Statement with Photographs (original is now taken down by the Met) this is Cached copy
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:KPpBQrLI4H8J:news.met.police.uk/news/counter-terrorism-police-release-images-of-two-suspects-in-connection-with-salisbury-attack-320534+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b
From the Met Statement;
“They are believed to have taken a similar route when they returned to London on the afternoon of Saturday, 3 March. Leaving Salisbury at approximately 4.10pm and arriving in Bow at approximately 8.05 pm.”
And
“Image three, shows the suspects at 16.11 on Saturday, 3 March at Salisbury train station about to catch a train back to London.”
—
Image 3 does not show them “about to catch a train” they have not passed through the ticket barrier to the platform, if anything they look like they are about to meet someone on a train, they are stood in the foyer area of the ticket hall. If anything they could have been meeting someone on the London to Salisbury train which got into Salisbury at 16:20, the pair are looking onto platform 4 where the incoming London train will stop, they are looking at the Train Times Display on Platform 4.
The next train due to London was 16:21 (from Exeter, St David’s) but it was cancelled, the next train to London was the 16:47 which actually left at 16:45.
The platforms have CCTV, the trains have CCTV.
I don’t know the point of this lie, other to create a distraction from the important issues of the case perhaps (as publishing the Gatwick photos with identical time stamps)
Image 3
https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2018/09/05/11/salisbury-attack-police-image-10.jpg?width=1368&height=912&fit=bounds&format=pjpg&auto=webp&quality=70
Historic Train Time Information from RailDar
Hi Peter,
Great comment. Thanks. I’m glad to see you back commenting here. You were missed. I hope that all is well with you.
Best wishes,
Rob
I’m interested in a comment I read that Pablo Miller may have lived very near Sergei. Does anyone know if any of the other houses around 47 Christie Miller Road has had its title information suppressed as they do with with safe houses?
Of course if you have received a Pablo D Notice, you best not answer. lol
There’s something very odd about Wiltshire Air Ambulance and Heli Charter.
According to HeliHub, Heli Charter has gone into voluntary liquidation:
https://helihub.com/tag/wiltshire-air-ambulance/
but according to Companies House it is “Active”:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02163475
I will do some more research but I notice that Heli Charter is based at Manston, RAMSGATE, Kent. Is it connected with Seaborne Freight?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seaborne_Freight
Agree Indeed! All very strange. Manston raises its head again and Seaborne Freight.
A Shipping Company with no Ships?
I don’t know much about aircraft but is Type used by WAA same-similar as one that
crashed outside Football Stadium. Could have a design fault?
Maybe TPTB punishing WAA for messing operation up 04.03.18?
Speculation on My part but does seem strange
“is Type used by WAA same-similar as one that crashed outside Football Stadium”
No, I checked that – the heli that crashed outside the football stadium was an Agusta-Westland type, definitely not a Bell type.
But it is interesting that they both had tail rotor failures – it’s an almost certain fatality if it can be arranged that the tail rotor fails when the heli is inside the avoid curve (i.e. shortly after take off, or in the hover).
Thank You Cascadian!
It is likely that the following information was discussed in earlier threads, but, I think, it is worth recalling:
BBC reports on 6 March:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43303651
Scientists at Porton Down – the UK’s secret weapons research facility in Wiltshire – are studying the “unknown substance”.
On Tuesday evening, BBC Newsnight’s diplomatic editor Mark Urban said there are concerns the pair’s conditions could worsen.
Despite the sending of samples, scientists have still not identified the substance and one official at Porton Down said “we are treating symptoms rather than causes”, Urban said.
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
The Daily Mail reports on 6 March, with update of 7 March:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5470361/Detectives-fear-Russian-spy-sprayed-poison-street.html
An official at military research centre at Porton Down, which is helping with the case, said medics were treating ‘symptoms rather than causes’, according to the BBC.
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a former commander of the Army’s chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear regiment, said the comment was ‘significant’.
Commenting on the possible poison, he said: ‘I don’t think it’s polonium – the incubation period is too long and the decontamination that’s been reported is not the kind you would do for a radioactive isotope.
‘If Porton Down are saying they are treating symptoms rather than causes they are doing palliative care.
‘If it was a nerve agent they would be given an antidote, which leads me to believe it is probably not a nerve agent.’
…………………………………………………………………………….
As I understand, if it was a nerve agent the Skripals would have died very soon without an antidote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_agent
Hamish de Bretton-Gordon is not a doctor. Porton Down is not the hospital.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/29/doctors-skripal-poisoning-salisbury-hospital
“Once the nerve agent was diagnosed, it was simply a matter of keeping the Skripals alive. They were heavily sedated and given heavy doses of drugs designed to protect them from the effects of the poison to help restart their bodies’ natural production of a key enzyme.”
The obvious conclusion is that the hospital did not “save” the Skripals but that the “nerve agent” was strong enough to cause symptoms but not strong enough to kill.
The reason for this might very well be that the stuff was used that had been sold to the ex-soviet mafia in the 1990’s in the hope that it could be traced back to Russia.
As a matter of fact Britain seems to suspect this as they asked Uglev about out and sent him a description of the poison.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43828580
“I can tell by the mass spectrometry readings, the presence of fluorine, by its molecular weight, and from all the spectrum data I was sent recently.”
But if the nerve agent was so powerful, how did the Skripals survive? Vladimir believes they received a “small dose… close to the threshold level.”
More Uglev
“And judging by how pure their test sample proved to be, this may well have been from a batch made by my own hands. It has a long shelf life, and virtually no expiry date.”
I say once again : If it had been Novichok A-234 the Skripals were dead.
Especially if they are initially treated against a fentanyl overdose.
Quote : Much of the history and properties of the toxin is shrouded in secrecy, but a 1996 essay by chemical weapons expert Jonathan B. Tucker claims Novichok is five-to-eight times more powerful than VX, and is believed to defy medical treatment.
Early and aggressive emergency care is required to survive.
Atropine is most commonly used in heart rhythm disturbances where up to one milligram of Atropine is used, but patients with organophosphate poisoning may require up to 100 milligrams. That far exceeds the three milligram stock of an ambulance, and may even deplete an entire hospital of its supply.
For weaponized pesticides, pralidoxime needs to be administered within minutes, before the poison binds irreversibly to its target; but pralidoxime is a hard drug to find outside of large hospitals.
Victims exposed to sufficient doses of organophosphates become ill rapidly and are incapacitated.
However, patients slumped over on a park bench in the city may not spark the thought of organophosphates right away.
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/is-canada-prepared-for-a-chemical-weapon-attack-like-the-one-in-the-u-k/
We don’t know, it certainly is a matter of dose.
Medical experts cannot really tell how individual people react, they have experience and statistics, both lacking in the case of A-234.
Viktoria thinks her uncle is dead:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6582123/Sergei-Skripals-niece-Viktoria-claims-uncle-actually-died-nerve-agent-attack.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-UAsH0GBsw
I’ve written to my MP to ask him if he can get any information on Sergei’s alleged death. I’ll be interested to see what he says.
Thank you Eleanor for posting.
So, Viktoria confirms that Sergei has not called his mother since late February (27th or 28th) and Yulia has not called her grandmother since 24 July, which was the grandmother’s 90th birthday. (RT was not accurate when making English subtitles in this video: they explained that 8 March is the birthday of Sergei’s mother, while in fact 8 March is Women’s Day and that’s why Sergei was going to call his mother on that day.)
In earlier comments I wrote that it was significant that neither Sergei nor Yulia called the mother/grandmother to wish her a happy New Year. The New Year is “far and away the most important holiday of the year” in Russia. See, for instance, these articles (or google for the New Year in Russia):
https://www.rbth.com/lifestyle/327157-new-year-russia-
https://holidappy.com/holidays/How-to-Celebrate-New-Years-like-a-Russian
Either, Sergei and Yulia did not call the mother/grandmother on 7 January, which is Russian Orthodox Christmas. Meanwhile, one of the recently published Skripal photographs depicts a Russian Orthodox cross on the wall of the Skripals’ dining room. So, the Christmas holiday is important for them, too. But there was no call. I see only one explanation (apart from their being dead): the Skripals are not allowed to make calls, because their handlers fear that the Skripals could disclose the falsehood of the “Novichok” narrative.
My guess is that The Telegraph’s article of 7 January was meant to hide the fact that the Skripals are incommunicado and actually prisoners. Thank you Brendan for posting The Telegraph’s article republished by Sott. One excerpt:
“Far from being cut off entirely from her former life, Yulia has remained in touch with certain close friends who refuse to divulge a shred of information about her. A few, both British and Russian, are understood to have visited her in the summer.”
According to the Russian newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets, in mid-June Yulia’s best friend Gulnara visited her in the UK, in order to get Yulia’s power of attorney for another friend, Diana, who was supervising the renovation of Yulia’s flat in Moscow. The renovation was started last winter; in May Yulia called Diana to ask her to continue renovation and promised to pay for the work in full upon her return to Moscow. There was no information about any other visits.
I didn’t see anything inaccurate in the subtitles on the clip I saw, which was from the Daily Mail. On 8th March, International Women’s Day, men congratulate women regardless of whether it’s their birthday
The birthday of Yelena Skripal, Sergei’s mother, is 24 July.
When Sergei called his mother last time, in late February, he said that he would call on 8 March. It is Women’s Day. But the RT subtitles say that it was his mother’s birthday.
On both URLs given at 00.06 to 00.10 seconds the subtitles refer to 8th March, but there is no mention of this being Sergei’s mother’s birthday. Are you referring to another edition of this interview? I’d not expect RT to get this wrong.
I watched the clip again (the link is above, in Eleanor’s post) and now there is no reference to 8th March as Sergei’s mother’s birthday. Could they have removed the reference?
Well it’s not there now.
In the Daily Mail paper :
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6582123/Sergei-Skripals-niece-Viktoria-claims-uncle-actually-died-nerve-agent-attack.html
the error is still there : “He called and said that he would call again on March 8 to congratulate his mother [on her birthday]. “
I can’t think the error originates with RT as anyone preparing the subtitles would I know the significance of 8th March. It looks like the sort of error that is all too frequent on Mail Online. Sorry I hadn’t meant this point to take up so many comments, I meant it just as an aside to show how things can be distorted through carelessness.
“But there was no call. I see only one explanation (apart from their being dead): the Skripals are not allowed to make calls, because their handlers fear that the Skripals could disclose the falsehood of the “Novichok” narrative.”
It has been media-suggested (ergo: briefed) that TPTB won’t permit a call to Yelena, lest it give away Sergei’s location. For me, that somewhat worked if Sergei had been moved to another 5i country, and that geolocation would become known. However, given their resources and their limitless funding when it’s something TPTB want to do, I can’t see a reason for Sergei (and/or Yulia, for that matter) to be flown to almost anywhere within the country and the call to then be made. Followed by transfer back to whatever passes for home, by some discreet means.
Which all sounds a bit mid-20th century, and in keeping with my mindset.
If an interactive call, a time delay could be used to monitor what was being said (it happened often enough, on international calls, back in days of yore!) and the plug pulled if something unauthorised was being said.
None of which means I don’t think Viktoria mightn’t be capable of sticking to an official story, if she thought she understood the reasons why it was the only way to establish a line of communication (although I still tend to think that Viktoria might be acting as a kind of barrier between the UK Skripals and Yelena).
Or, of course, I could be wrong. Moi, wrong? Perish the thought.
Milda, I too noticed and realised the possible significance of the Orthodox cross.
What would happen to Sergei’s body if he died? Would the answer to this question be a reason for the British Authorities to cover up his death?
I suspect that the authorities would quickly cremate Sergei’s body, as they did with Dawn’s body.
They would need consent of next-of-kin for that. This makes me think, Sergei dead would make the Russians look still more wicked than Sergei alive but would it present legal problems with his body?
Dr David Kelly was buried, then exhumed and cremated. I don’t buy the explanation given in Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly_%28weapons_expert%29#Exhumation_of_body
Full context of what Viktoria said
http://tass.com/world/1039584
“Granny definitely won’t go there though she wants to, but her health doesn’t allow it. She is 91 years old and she has not been well recently, this week she will have an electrocardiogram… she can barely walk,” Viktoria said.
“As for me, I don’t intend to go to Great Britain now, Yulia [Sergei Skripal’s daughter] has not called any member of the family, Sergei Viktorovich [Sripal] is probably dead. First, he hasn’t contacted his mother, and second, have you seen him after what happened? They didn’t even show us his photos,” Viktoria Skripal pointed out.”
Is Nasty Theresa Type-Stuff going to affect property next door 47?
It can defy gravity as stated earlier and do other amazing things so
surly next door needs a new roof?
A Wonder Weapon-System Of Mind Control-Fudging.
Little Gavin cant sleep at night with his torch under bedclothes and
stripy Pj’s reading Ladybird Books…Drones..Nasty Theresa Weapons.
This Is The Future…Sweet Dreams Little Gavin..Sleep Tight..Theresa Loves You XX
I purchased a small Russian Flag lapel pin. I am wearing it with pride
in support of Sergei-Yulia and Russia.
I am totally ashamed of My Country and its handling of this case.
I am quite surprised by public feedback regarding Salisbury and they
don’t believe what TPTB are saying.
Purchase your pin badge ebay and support Sergei-Yulia-Russia.
Pardon me! Sergei and Julia have done a great evil for Russia, the economy and life of every citizen in Russia has been significantly worsened, and all thanks to the complicity of Sergei and Julia in the Salisbury’s incident. The activity of these persons for the Russian equivalent to a small war!
You really think there would be no economic war on Russia without Sergej and Yulia Skripal?
Every war has specific names! Skrypals on their own have become enemies of Russia, and deliberately inflicted harm to Russia. They weren’t Mr. X and other
And for a lighter take, but hopefully still relevant:
https://syrianobservatoryforhumanwrongs.wordpress.com/2018/07/09/an-idiots-guide-to-the-skripal-affair/
I have made a complaint to Scottish Charity Regulator about the Institute for Statecraft. In order to do this, I first had to make a complaint to the IFS itself – I received no reply. However, since making my complaint to the IFS, I have had a large increase in the number of spam emails and my email address is being used to spam companies around the world, via their contact forms. It could be a coincidence but I suspect it is a punishment.
If this is the case they could have breached your privacy right, write to them tell them what happended, put in a Subject Access request on all data they hold on you and demand an explanation of how they protect your personal information.
They have form for not protecting personal information. Its a very serious offence.
Thank you – good idea.
Here is the IFS privacy policy:
https://www.statecraft.org.uk/privacy-policy
I made a collage of 3 photos showing what happened to Sergei’s door.
The three photos show the „door developement“ March 6 – September 27 – January 8, 2019.
Please look at the white casing above the horseshoe.
https://ibb.co/s1XJVRC
September 27 this casing was not damaged by removing the door.
January 8, 2019 we see that the casing has been damaged. Obviously, one has looked up what is hidden underneath and has something removed.
What could that be ?
I suspect that under the casing ran the wires for a surveillance system or the system itself was hidden there.
This reinforces my assumption that the house had CCTV.
Lianne – good spot, but I don’t think it is damaged! It is the gutter and it has been wrapped to prevent water from the porch roof (which in turn would come from the main roof) going in to it.
So, my take, the main roof is contaminated. Sergei had to be storing CBW samples up there.
Patrick.
I wonder if its not just to protect the plastic facia under the gutter from damage when they removed and replaced the door with wooden shuttering
Storage of CBW samples in the loft does seem the most likely explanation but why? Was he planning to sell them or was he an intermediary between Porton Down and M156, who would go on to use them for a false flag attack?
@Anonymous, it´s NOT the gutter, it´s the casing below the gutter.
Zoom in, then you will see it.
@Evoluon, it did NOT happen when they removed the door. It happened later.
I had thought to make this clear, but obviously not…
Im sorry I didnt read your post properly about the plastic strip. Also, re the lenaing pipe on the roof to the right of the front of the house, it was leaning in the photos earlier in March just after the incident took place, but was upright on the google photos and house details which also show a similar vent at the back of the house. I suspect these may be ventilators for the drains. I wonder if the front one was severed within the attic space – maybe something inside?
I agree with Rob’s excellent summary of the role of Petrov and Boshirov, or more accurately, what they were not.
However, I think it is worth a Blogmire ponder as to who paid them to carry out the Salisbury soiree and why.
Their visit coincided with the arrival of Yulia. More than likely not a coincidence.
What would P&B carry from Russia that Yulia could not?
(Yes, Novichok I hear you NOT cry!)
Conversely, what would they carry back that Yulia could
Why two couriers, rather than one?
Why did Putin seem very relaxed, almost insistent that P&B appear on TV as soon as they were identified?
What are the two chaps up to now?
Personally, I do not believe that Salisbury was visited that specific weekend to call in on the local steroid scene, and certainly do nor believe the tourist story.
Who paid them? Maybe the Integrity Initiative.
They would have the most to gain.
If Sergei and Yulia were really off the grid on Sunday morning, then having the two Superagents wandering around the town, but somehow avoiding CMR might seem like a plan.
This article explains what couriers do
https://southfront.org/another-version-attempting-to-explain-trip-of-gru-agents-petrov-and-boshirov-to-salisbury/
I guess if they service offshore accounts their documents are sensitive.
Russia is running an influence campaign via their oligarchs (and accompanying mafia), whilst “the west” have been trying regime change via Russian (and Ukrainian) oligarchs (and accompanying mafia).
Relations are so complex that one Russian oligarch – Deripaska – can employ Christopher Steele’s Orbis (including Skripal) for lobbying in the United States (and presumably Britain) whilst Orbis claims they have been trying to recruit Deripaska for Western interest.
One thing is sure: None of these people (neither East nor West) pay taxes and everyone has their money in offshore accounts.
and yes, Yulia’s fiance and his mother worked for a company owned by Deripaska
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/she-didnt-sound-like-herself-12327593
and this here happened just before Yulia Skripal travelled to Salisbury (and before Russian elections)
https://www.opendemocracy.net/od-russia/andrey-kalikh/my-baby-knows-how-to-speed-up-judges-when-he-needs-to
Don´t forget to mention that Christopher Steele lobbied for Deripaska to get a US visa !
That is what I said
From above
“Relations are so complex that one Russian oligarch – Deripaska – can employ Christopher Steele’s Orbis (including Skripal) for lobbying in the United States (and presumably Britain) whilst Orbis claims they have been trying to recruit Deripaska for Western interest.”
Duncan, I still believe that Sergei wanted to return to Russia and that MI6 was aware of this plan.
They sent Urban to check him out. Pablo Miller and Ross Cassidy might have known about it, too.
It could well be that the Skripals brought the pets to a save place early in the morning March 4.
That means the Skripals were at home between 9:15am and 1:30pm.
BUT we don´t know if Yulia or Sergei left the house on foot at this time.
And we don´t know if BOTH Skripals were in the BMW when driving to Salisbury car park.
We only know that the Skripals were together when the duck feeding took place.
So, there are many possibilities for one of the Skripals to meet with R&A.
Remember that Petrov used his handy when he left Salisbury train station at 11:48hrs on 4 March 2018. Whom did he call or texted ? Yulia ? Sergei ?
It could well be that an exchange took place : SD card/documents for money/passport/tickets.
Anyhow – IF Sergei´s house had CCTV, why is it hidden from the public ?
‘handy’ is the German for ‘cellphone, mobile phone’.
I’m afraid your theory does not explain their movements, certainly not the Saturday visit.
And the Integrity Initiative? Really?
(The below assumes the Station and Council CCTV Timestamps were correct but the Shell garage and Dauwalders, both slightly out)
Spies / Assassins / Tourist / Sports Supplement Consultants – Movements
Station 11:48
Shell garage11:58
Bridge opposite Mill pub 13:05
Summerlock Approach 13:08
Dauwalders 13:48
Station 13:50
Skripal’s Car Movements (not necessarily the Skripals)
Leave House just before 13:30 (Assumed)
Devizes Inn 13:30 (adjusted timestamp from 13:32)
India Ave 13:33 (adjusted from 14:55)
Car Park 13:40 (timestamp from parking ticket / cctv?)
Feed Ducks 13:45
(Although one of Aiden Cooper’s parents thought the time on the video they saw was 13:15)
Now have a look on a map where the Russian Pair were caught on CCTV, then look up these gym locations (in the order of a route from the station and the order of CCTV sightings)
Google Salisbury Gyms and look at the proximity to a route that takes the Russian pair from the Station, up Wilton Rd, return back to Salisbury via Cherry Orchard Rd and Churchfields past / through Queen Elizabeth Gardens and the Cathedral. And then re-look at the timestamps of the CCTV Captures, the length of the journey (6.25km) and the time to complete : 2 hours, enough to visit 10 or more Gyms and have a coffee;
Monster Factory, Simon Anderson Fitness, Alpha &Omega, Evolved Health, Body Lounge, Special When Lit, Snap Fitness, Sports Direct
And this excludes the Boxing Club, Warrior Academy, Several Yoga Clubs, Coach Me slim and half a dozen or more fitness centres close by.
If you think they are couriers that is fine but they said they are in the business of Fitness Supplements and that their business requires complete customer confidentiality.
If there is evidence that they are in fact couriers I have not seen it, nor have I seen evidence that they are not involved in Fitness Supplements.
Until I do I will keep an open mind.
From the transcript of the TV interview
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/13/skripal-suspects-interview-read-full-transcript/
“What do they do for work?
Boshirov: We are ordinary entrepreneurs. If we talk about our business it will suffer, and the people we work with will suffer, and we don’t want this.
Petrov: We will reduce the search area for your colleagues. It’s the fitness industry, related to sport nutrition, vitamins, micro-elements, proteins, gainers and so on. If we say more, our partners and a wide circle of acquaintances.
We consult here, now the trend is to consult not about growing your biceps but about keeping your figure, healthy lifestyle.
Boshirov:Eating right, a healthy lifestyle – we don’t want to bring attention to this, to get deeper into these questions, I wouldn’t want people among our clients to suffer.”
I tend to agree, if their Salisbury stint was the only one they crossed paths with Sergej Skripal.
The Saturday actually can be explained. They said themselves that trains weren’t running because of the snow, so I suppose they were simply late.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/03/uk-weather-britain-braced-black-ice-floods-thaw-sets-storm-emma/
“After rail services were thrown into turmoil on Friday by the severe conditions, Southeastern Railway, which operates in Kent, East Sussex and London, ran an amended timetable on Saturday, with services starting later and finishing earlier than usual.”
However, if you sell illegal stuff you do not double the risk by moving inseparably together. No drug dealer does it. You split.
And we don’t know if their stays in Prague (crossing Skripal’s path), in Amsterdam, Paris and in Geneva are true. All of these places are oligarch hotspots.
I don’t believe either that they were there purely as tourists, at least not when on Wilton Road.
You might wander around aimlessly around a city if you have plenty of spare time and you’ve seen enough of the other sights. But P&B had only arrived and immediately headed in almost the opposite direction to the city centre and cathedral.
They also had to catch a flight to Moscow that night and the train timetable was disrupted due to maintainance work, so they could comfortably spend only a couple of hours in Salisbury.
I do believe that they visited Salisbury Cathedral, simply because that part of their story was never officially denied – it was only sneered at by numerous commentators. If they had gone nowhere near the cathedral, the extensive CCTV footage would have exposed their story as a lie. If that were the case, the British authorities would have (at the very least) said so, or maybe even publish the evidence.
The touristy part of their day trip, which also included a wander around the city centre, could have been a front for whatever they were doing around Wilton Road. If they got stopped by police afterwards and asked about the purpose of their visit, they could just show the pictures they took of the city and the cathedral, just like normal tourists.
On the other hand, it’s possible thay they genuinely wanted to look at the tourist sights after they’d finished their business around Wilton Road (finished very quickly if it was just to hand over something). If they had some time to spare, why miss the opportunity while you’re in Salisbury?
The fitness product story has some plausibility about it, but I’m a bit skeptical about that as well. Why would any gym in Salisbury buy anything from a couple of Russians when they can get all sorts of products in the UK? It would have to be some very special product to justify that transaction.
That could also be a front to hide some other business, just in case P&B’s innocent tourist story was not convincing enough. They might have been prepared to risk being suspected of dealing in steroids as a smokescreen for some even more secret business.
They could even have made up the vitamin supplement story to deflect attention after they were named by the Met, if they had never expected their movements that day to be monitored.
I agree that Yulia’s presence that weekend seems too coincidental. The best explanation for this apparent coincidence is that Yulia was picking up or receiving something on behalf of Sergei.
Sergei could have been afraid of being monitored by some intelligence agency, in which case he got her to act as a middleman (sorry, middleperson!). He would not expect the spooks to suspect her or have the resources to keep an eye on her as well as himself.
She could innocently pop out for a while around Midday on Sunday, for example, down through the laneway to the Coop shop on Wilton Road (she could move faster than Sergei as well and so avoid being followed). When P&B and Yulia see each other, one of them could drop something into a shopping trolley to be picked up.
Alternatively she could have met P&B while she was supposedly walking into town (I read that a Russian newspaper reported that Yulia phoned a friend in Russia that morning and said that she was going to walk into the city centre).
Whatever the exact scenario, it’s possible that the spooks observed the handover but were unable to prevent it. In that case, their superiors may have decided that they had no alternative to make Yulia and Sergei later that day.
Edit last sentence:
(…) make Yulia and Sergei disappear later that day.
Feeding the ducks would be the most likely point of meeting.
Don’t you think that Yulia seems far more innocent to smuggle something than two athletic guys without baggage and military background . It is rather in reverse Yulia or Sergei could have passed something to B&P somewhere at Milton Road or the park, for exchange of money. See my other comment below.
Anidea, it’s true that it’s also a strange coincidence that P&B were close to where S&Y were near the park between about 13:30 and 13:50 (if the time on the Gauwalders video is in any way accurate). Their locations were closer there than they were earlier in the Wilton Road/ CMR area.
However, P&B’s presence on Wilton Road has no innocent explanation, whereas their walk through Fisherton Road was on their way from the city centre to the train station, which is not an unusual route for someone visiting Salisbury. Of course, the Met have not told us where else they went around that area.
But it does not have to be an either-or situation – of the exchange taking place in one place or the other. In Wilton Road, something (an object or payment or message) could have been handed over, with Yulia acting on behalf of Sergei. Then an arrangent could have been made to meet again in or near the park an hour and a half later (after Sergei considered his response and confirmed whatever deal was being made).
That would explain why the exchange did not happen in Russia instead, where P&B and Yulia all live. It would have been easier to do it that way only if it were a simple handover or purchase, and where Yulia – who, as Anthony said, might look less suspicious – would smuggle something to or from Sergei in the UK.
I don’t like to propose theories that are in any way elaborate, but I think that the two stage exchange in Salisbury clears some unexplained things, including strange coincidences, out of the way.
Would the simplest thing to courier be a SIM card …to put in skripal phone…..if not a phone itself…to make contact….confirmed by password or code number for entry even a finger print lock release as GRU would have that from recorfs….such phone could have a PDF reader app too to access downloaded documents when activated…..or a skype to chat someone…confirm passwords or instructions etc etc….
Would that explain why their phones were said to be off in the morning….and alerted security services….? Maybe poor reception in Zizzi hence S anger frustration especially if phoning broad…or awaiting call back….
Salisbury is a small town. It is easy for people to be not far from each other in the city centre.
Their proximity in the city centre, on its own, was nothing unusual. What’s strange is this was soon after their being near each other also in Wilton Rd/CMR (which even on its own seems unusual).
I find the ‘they just appended to be there’ and the ‘MI6 lured them there just to get photos’ theories difficult to accept. For the first on a given weekend the probability of finding a couple of Russians acting like them in London and Salisbury is remote. For the second planning an operation around two people who are lured there just for photos seems to be leaving a bit too much to chance, those lured may not behave as hoped. Seems to me much more likely that B and P were there to make contact with Skripals. As to what Skripal could give them, information, in invisible ink maybe, as to what they could give Skripal, travel documents so he could return to Russia. Perhaps B and P were thought less likely to be searched that Yulia, or perhaps Yulia was not trusted by the Russians.
First sentence, read ‘happened’ for ‘appended’. I must take more care before pressing ‘Post’
Why not? Maybe MI6 was tipped about some secret meeting between B&P and Scripal and have decided on the move to kill three rabbits with one bullet. Operation was not perfect because time have not enough to be planned well, Scripals didn’t died by the “military grade” agent and survived so some second victims the homeless Dawn have been marked. Later few pictures of B&P wandering around in Salisbury were complete enough to convince the obedient MSM as we all saw.
I do not believe that this have happened but we have to outline all possibilities.
What would P&B carry from Russia that Yulia could not?
(Yes, Novichok I hear you NOT cry!)
What would Yulia carry that P&B can not? Why two suspicious Russians will carry Novichov for Yulia? She have all the connections necessary, her father is protected by MI6, no problems with visa and so on.
Why two couriers, rather than one? – Because if they carry a lot of money with them it is better to be two solid guys than one. To keep one more eye someone not to rob them in the train for example. It is not unusual couriers to be in pairs.
Why did Putin seem very relaxed – because Putin knows that not B&P poisoned Scripas and that his adversaries do not have any proofs,
Who paid them? Maybe the Integrity Initiative. – Maybe. But more probably someone who needed Novichok as a revenge for his ex wife and business partner.
Seems that too many people are still interested from Salisbury poisoning. Anyone with his wits who have read the Rob summary, Rob articles and the comments would be quite clear that the so called “official door handle story” is just impossible or in the best case would need tons of additional evidences – missing CCTV, missing Novichok probes and PD analysis of the substance properties, missing Yulia and Sergei, Charlie who can’t remember WHERE and WHEN he found the perfume bottle but can remember many other details like that it was unopened and with cellophane cover (which should be by the way somewhere in the house and analyzed for fingerprints from police – no accounts about it from police?). In the best case there is total blackout for “security” reasons even after so much mounts and even for very basic questions.
So if the “door-handle” theory is false or incomplete or just cheap propaganda, for us people interested from the truth it may worths to list here the alternative theories? Maybe some lone-wolf journalist from outside MSM will finally investigate it? Or someone in Salisbury, some official who knows more will begins to talk?
I made a short list with the main alternative theories. Maybe Rob can list them somewhere. These theories has some partial evidences but nothing is certain because the information from authorities is very scarce and misleading.
1. The Setup Theory – MI6 (or some foreign secret service) did the poisoning with the Novichok on March 4th with the goal to tarnish Putin before the elections and to punish Scripal for being double agent and sympathizing the Putin regime. Maybe this was not Novichok at all. Charlie & Dawn has been chosen as victims to make the Novichok story more acceptable. Petrov and Boshirov has been attracted to Salisbury with some unofficial visit, maybe to deliver documents or sensitive information to Scripal or someone else in Salisbury. Time of the poisoning was set-up so that they to be blamed later as it happened. The main joker card of the
2. The Cover-up Theory The poisoning itself was a surprise for MI6 but Scripal was somehow voluntary involved. In Mills pub, Scripal & Yulia didn’t finish their drinks, hurrying outside. Sergei has been apparently drunk and looking unstable and sick. But no one can get drunk from half a glass of wine. Maybe Sergei and Yulia knew that they have been poisoned with nerve agent and tried to cover it up. Why otherwise they didn’t called ambulance while still in the pub? It is possible this to have been some of the latest type of Novichok with slow reaction accelerated by alcohol and not dangerous in small quantities. Military Grade was invention of the HMG to divert the medias attention to Putin and the international affairs.
3. The Incident Theory – A Similar to 2 but with the difference that Sergei or Yulia was not poisoned with Novichok deliberately by any poisoners but did some mistake that have caused leakage and contamination maybe while being inside the house, but possibly and while outside, meeting with someone (maybe Boshirov and Petrov) in the morning of March 4th . Maybe they prepared the perfume bottle and left it for someone at Catherine street or at some hidden place nearby at some time in the morning or before going to Zizzi. But they have poisoned themselves and couldn’t pass the location to the buyer and that is how Charlie found it 3 mounts later. Boshirov and Petrov could have been just couriers that delivered to Scripal some of the Novichok ingredients without knowing it, maybe thinking that it is some kind of drug or anabolic. MI6,HMG have since only cover up all of this but have been especially annoyed after Dawn poisoning and that Scripals didn’t told them about the perfume bottle.
4. The Incident Theory – B Similar to 3 but with the difference that Sergei or Yulia didn’t knew what they have been dealing with. Maybe Yulia while cleaning up the house, found the perfume bottle in the house and tried to use it, just like Dawn later, not knowing what it contains. Then maybe she have left the perfume bottle (or more than one bottle?) together with other Alexander belongings at the charity shops at Catherine street. It is not clear why this bottle have been in Scripal house.
5. The Revenge Theory Sergei and Yulia were somehow poisoned by some of his enemies in Russia, maybe through Yulia ex-fiancée Stepan Vikeev and his mother. Maybe Vikeev gave the perfume bottle to Yulia. I think however that this theory for quite unlikely.
I personally believe in 3 and 4, more inclined to 4 . Maybe we can vote? I think all other theories falls in one of these 5 categories with many subtle details of course.
Sorry one incomplete sentence:
The main joker card of the “investigation”.
You forget that there was precedence with all the ingredients – public scare, weapon of mass destruction, victim involved in investigation the Russian mafia in Spain, Putin blamed. There were even the same British spy masters involved.
With a slight difference – Skripals a) survived b) seem to be in no mood to play along.
Anthony: Thank you for listing your ideas. I get the impression that Rob is not much into theorising about this case. That seems a prudent stance as relevant evidence so far in the public domain is scanty and often contradictory. Wild theorising does little for one’s credibility.
There does seem to be strong evidence that Sergej and Yulia are not free agents and are being held incommunicado (except for communication with Wiltshire County Council regarding the possible purchase of Sergei’s house). That is worrying for me, although for the Great British Public a more pressing interest seems to be gazing at the navel of the Princess of Sussex.
For many members of the public it is not enough to demolish the official case, a plausible alternative explanation for Boshirov and Petrov’s presence in Salisbury is needed. In addition to those defined above I’d suggest the ‘trigger theory’, that B and P’s presence triggered the disappearance of the Skripals.
I agree. if we dispute the “official version” even with all its holes, we have to provide alternative explanations.
I think that Yulia presence have “triggered the disappearance of the Skripals”. Yulia must have done something unexpected which have messed up everyone plans. There are several possible variations of the above theories. For example, it is possible Sergei not to have told Yulia everything he was dealing with. He leaves on foot to meet someone of his partners or B&P in the morning of 4th March, Yulia remains alone in the house and is curious, finds the perfume bottle and tries to use it smearing Novichok everywhere in the house and the door handle, not telling her father.
I have many reasons to think that this have been an incident. If someone knows that is dealing with Novichok he will be very careful. But B&P do not seems to act like carrying something so dangerous as nerve agent. They have arrived at the airport without baggage so Novichok perfume bottle couldn’t have been imported through the customs. While Yulia had baggage and it is not suspicious for her to have a lady perfume anyway. I never understood how this that not having Novichok traces on the plane or in the car she arrived from London proves that Yulia didn’t smuggled the bottle? If Novichok bottle was sealed of course it will not leave any traces.
Actually while I think more about this, B&P looks to me more like couriers send by the buyer, not the seller, to get the Novichok perfume bottle from Scripal. On 3-th March they fails to meet Scripal because of the weather. On 4-th March they meets Scripal and pass him an envelop with money. Sergei returns to the house to prepare the bottle for the buyer and leaves it somewhere in Salisbury. But something goes wrong, probably there have been some leakage. B&P have learned about the poisoning, have got scared and decides to leave as quickly as possible for Moscow. The buyer also disappears in the shadows. The perfume bottle remains hidden for mounts until found by Charlie.
Call it Incident Theory – C.
I am just trying to list all alternatives to the :official story”.
“we have to provide alternative explanations”
But TPTB know this, it’s the primary reason why they are keeping shtum.
Any ‘alternative’ explanation, presented without a clear chain of evidence will, naturally, be treated as a conspiracy theory, thus discrediting the sceptic.
I’m not saying that we should not, necessarily, formulate alternative explanations and attempt to fit them to the few facts that we think we know, but I would posit that it would be foolish to do so in a public forum such as this one – ergo, I’m in favour of Paul, et al’s, suggestion that such things are done in a private forum, keeping this one reserved for prompts to TPTB (i.e. prodding the frog with a straw) and then maybe we will be able to deduce, from the direction in which they jump (i.e. The Telegraph), what perturbs them most about our progress towards the truth.
Now I’m convinced, Anthony, you are a spook.
What do you mean? If you have something to say or a better theory or know more facts share it with us. This is I believe the reason for this blog. What is the point of keeping it only for you and few others? TPTB does not cares about “prompts” and of course that they and MSM and Integrity and others will say that these are conspiracy theories and everyone disputing official theory is a Russian spy and troll. Why should I care? Why you are scared to speak in free?
“Official Door handle theory” has as many missing evidences, maybe even more than the above theories, so if it was not “official” you could label it also as “conspiracy” theory. Simply a matter of wording. It is just more convenient for the politicians, fitting in the anti-Russia campaign. I don’t mind even to accept the official version if they provide all proofs, but stated like it is now is just a “insult to public’s intelligence’. Something that I personally can’t accept.
Grigory: I understand your point, but B & P have already provided a plausible explanation for their trip to England. Like other businessmen (and those in many other occupations) they may have decided to use the opportunity to combine a work-related trip with a bit of sight-seeing. Or maybe the sightseeing was just an afterthought. Maybe they just fancied a weekend in London combined with a short ‘business’ trip to Salisbury. The fact is that Rob, with help and encouragement from commenters here, along with some judicious reading between the lines of the OPCW’s reports – apart perhaps from SDH the OPCW is the only public body concerned in this case in which I have any confidence – has already damaged the official conspiracy theory beyond repair. It’s a dead parrot.
We’d all like to know what actually happened on March 4 and following days. Quite possibly we never will. Backing alternative theories with inadequate evidence risks drawing attention away from the serious weaknesses in the official story.
The Telegraph piece from behind a paywall a few days ago has been republished.
https://www.sott.net/article/404602-Skripals-likely-still-in-the-UK-and-working-with-MI5
Like all mainstream reports on the Skripal case, it contains far too many ridiculous statements to mention. I’ll only deal with a couple of sentences.
“Up until June, Yulia was indicating to friends and associates that she intended to return to Russia, sources suggest.”
The source is actually Yulia herself in her video statement at the end of May. She said:
“In the longer term I hope to return home to my country.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/britain-russia-skripal-yulia/text-yulia-skripal-daughter-of-poisoned-russian-spy-in-her-own-words-idUSL5N1SU4TZ
The Telegraph then goes on to say:
“But that notion was abruptly shelved, possibly when they received a full police briefing about the suspects.”
So what she learn about the suspects that scared her into remaining in hiding? I wonder did they tell her the following about the suspected assassins:
– That they failed to kill any of their targets, despite being trained to use the world’s deadliest nerve agent, and having perfect conditions for applying it to the door handle less than a half an hour before she and Sergei touched it.
– That they kept walking on the wrong side of the road on their way to the house, having missed the most obvious place to cross.
– That they wandered around town for more than an hour after the assassination attempt, looking into shop windows and taking photos, and being recorded on CCTV, instead of getting as far away as possible from the crime scene as quickly as possible.
Rob mentions other strange behaviour by P&B on their trip in his summary.
But I suppose the important thing that the Telegraph article confirms is what many skeptics have suspected for a long time – that Yulia’s ‘minders’ will not allow her back to Russia.
From the Telegraph article
“Philip Ingram, a former intelligence and security officer who has placed agents in the resettlement programme, said: “The primary reason for this attack was not to kill the Skripals.
“It was to send a message to powerful oligarchs stirring up opposition ahead of the Russian election and for Putin to whip up nationalist feelings. “
From the Telegraph article
“Philip Ingram, a former intelligence and security officer who has placed agents in the resettlement programme, said: “The primary reason for this attack was not to kill the Skripals.
“It was to send a message to powerful oligarchs stirring up opposition ahead of the Russian election and for Putin to whip up nationalist feelings. ”
“They chose Novichok because the Russians love using nerve agents but they have a neon sign that says, ‘we did it’. Part of its reason for selection is in that messaging.”
Methinks Mr. Ingram has become a little obsessed with the closing scenes of The Hunger Games, Mockingjay Part 2.
Mealsothinks that Mr. Ingram may benefit from a brain transplant.
If they were trying to frighten oligarchs from influencing the election they left it rather late, there were only two weeks to go. Very few people in Russia believe Russia tried to poison the Skripals so it would not have caused a surge of nationalist feeling ahead of the election. The British government must have boosted turnout and Putin’s vote share by several per cent by their accusations a week before the poll, but that us hardly something Putin could have relied on. (I was in Russia at the time)
The actual turnout was lower than predicted by opinion polls in late February. This means that there was no boost in pro-Putin sentiment. If needed, I will find the numbers.
The Telegraph article is a desperate attempt by the authorities to explain why the Skripals are not allowed to present their version to the public.
Lies… lies… lies.
“Wiltshire Council has confirmed today that Mr Skripal is still the owner of the house.
They’re also in regular contact with him about the progress of the work there.
If he chooses to sell the property, the authority will help with that too”. Spirefm [local radio].
So Sergei is in regular contact with Wiltshire Council about his house repairs but apparently cannot be bothered about his ailing mother who is frantic with concern about him and has not seen or spoken to him [even by letter c/o the Commissioner Metropolitan Police], since March 3rd 2018.
Why have no letters been sent to Yulia and Sergei from their relatives? Why have the Russian Embassy not taken the breach in the UK/Russian Federation bilateral agreement to force the UK Authorities to at least grant the Skripals independent legal advice [not even Russian advice?]
18 October 2018, Sergei’s mother Yelena to the Mirror:
“We used to speak on the phone every single week.
I’m now applying for a passport to go to England to see him but I don’t think they will give me one.
But I dream of getting to England to see them. I’m glad he has got better.”
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/salisbury-poisoning-victim-sergei-skripals-13434451
What they mean is that they are not in contact with Sergei himself but are most likely in contact with Charles Filmer, of Distillery Farm, Minety, where the AA helicopter landed on the day Sergei disappeared and flew Charles to Salisbury. The helicopter landed very close to the Mill pub. The pub where Sergei disappeared from on March 4th.
Charles Filmer runs a ‘family office’ company, who has the authority to conduct his affairs for him while he is either held in captivity or hidden away under strict conditions, in a witness program, somewhere in the world.
From Forbes Magazine: “Perhaps the simplest definition of a ‘family office’ is an organization that assumes the day-to-day administration and management of a family’s affairs.”
Denise,
Could you be so kind and add something like “my theory is…” before making bold statements without any factual basis? Statements like “The pub where Sergei disappeared from on March 4th.” Or statements about Filmer. Who told you that Filmer’s company has the authority to conduct his [Skripal’s ??] affairs…? Fantasies are not helpful.
Milda, Could I just point out that on the last blog you started a comment with:
“It was an item found near The Mill.”
http://www.theblogmire.com/new-thread-and-announcement/#comment-22592
Glass-houses… stones… etc..
Paul, you omitted the context. My comment was a reply to Liane’s post and I gave an explanation for my statement. And my explanation includes exactly those words “My theory is…” I will repost here Liane’s post and my comment:
Liane Theuer says:
January 8, 2019 at 11:59 pm
Anidea, in your link is a video.
Sergeant Andrew Floyd, 27 Squadron RAF Regiment, 20 Wing Defence CBRN, said :
„The largest initial site that we dealt with was Bourne Hill Police Station. We ?? removal of around 50 office chairs, 15 hundred carpet ??, which all requires pocketed in waste containers. And then we carried out detailed decontamination of various surfaces, hard surfaces in the properties.“
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ODpfp5bKTw
Why does no journalist ask about WHAT contaminated the whole Police Station and 8 cars at the parking lot of Bourne Hill ?
Was it an item that Bailey picked up in Sergei´s house or was it an item found at the bench ?
………………………………………
Milda says:
January 10, 2019 at 10:47 am
It was an item found near The Mill.
The change of the timeline (Zizzi and The Mill transposed) must have done for a reason, not “for fun.” The reason, which seems obvious to me, was to distract the attention of the public and possible eyewitnesses from The Mill and the area around it. This is, as if nothing important happened there. Which means that something important happened in The Mill or its area.
My theory is that the Skripals were sprayed with an incapacitant in the Riverside Walk, near the alleyway leading to The Mill. That place is a CCTV blind spot. The perpetrators then escaped through the doorway at the backside of The Mill (the doorway with a grille is seen on the Google panorama) to The Mill’s backyard and then drive away.
………………………………………………………………..
It is also worth recalling certain important info about Bourne Hill Police Station:
https://www.theblogmire.com/where-was-detective-sergeant-nicholas-bailey-poisoned/
Just one short excerpt – – Spire FM reported on 28 June:
“The deep clean focused on two areas of the building, the evidence store used by Wiltshire Police and two lockers.”
The focus of the cleaning on the evidence store suggests that a contaminated evidence item was placed in that store. As Bailey was the only policeman who was contaminated, the contamination of the evidence store suggests that he, Bailey, brought something and placed in that room. My idea is that he found something in the Maltings near The Mill – see above.
To add the link with regard to the topic of the Skripals having been sprayed with a substance:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5470361/Detectives-fear-Russian-spy-sprayed-poison-street.html
PUBLISHED: 22:38 GMT, 6 March 2018 | UPDATED: 19:02 GMT, 7 March 2018
“As anti-terror police investigate the suspected poisoning, one line of inquiry is that the former Russian army colonel was ambushed by attackers who sprayed him with a substance in the street.
Another possibility investigators are looking at is that Mr Skripal’s drink was spiked at a pub he and his daughter visited shortly before they collapsed.”
Hi Milda, Anything that anyone posts, that doesn’t have links or references, is always just their theory, but I will make mine clearer in future.
I’ve been away due to bereavement. I was hoping to get stuck back in again to take my mind off things but have just read the disappointing news about the blog.
A clue to the present is in the past. We know the continued demonization of Russia is an extension of Operation Beluga (joint operation between America and Britain). After WW2 psychologists did much work to ascertain how and why the German population allowed itself to be involved in such atrocities. The conclusion they came to was that the population was obedient and compliant – they believed everything they were told – hatred of the Jews and Communists – and were simply following orders. Psychologists also came to the conclusion that the only other country in Europe where Hitler could have succeeded was Britain. They found the Italians to be the most disobedient.
Hatred of the Communists is still a preoccupation for the British government, SS (MI6, GCHQ, fake NGO’s, “think tanks”, Atlantic Council, Integrity Initiative, Bellingcat etc) and Military.
The timing of Salisbury is crucial:
• Nordstream-2 – UK/US will stop at nothing to scupper the second pipeline, they succeeded with Southstream to Greece and Italy. Russia plan to turn the transit pipe off running through Ukraine at the end of 2019 when Nortstream-2 becomes fully operational and have no intention of renewing the transit contract. Ukraine receives a very lucrative money for nothing fee for the transit pipeline, they’ve also syphoned off gas, turned if off twice, and are disputing their gas bill from Russia. May is on record as saying she is quite happy to buy the more expensive US gas with is associated unreliability having to cross the Atlantic. US still piling pressure on Germany and threatening sanctions!!
• Crimea – US wanted Sevastolpol from which to place Nukes pointing at Russia.
• Syria – UK/US instigated civil war over a planned gas pipeline from Qatar to Turkey.
• Georgia – US instigated civil war over oil/gas pipelines.
• World Cup
• Russian Election
The success of The Blogmire is reflected in the Panorama farce.
What was left out:
• Gone is the timeline about the Skripals’ movement. Far too risky in case they received a flood of communications saying the police had made a mistake. Don’t forget there would be a record of each communication.
• Gone is the reconnaissance mission on 3rd March. I was in the middle of writing a second letter to Bassu querying why two crack “assassins” would NOT choose a 5-6 hour window of opportunity (while Sergei went to Heathrow), preferring instead the 1 hour 15 minute window of opportunity the following day to perform the death defying “attack”.
• Gone is the inexplicable early start on Sunday at 9.15 and the admission they left the house around 1.30. Ross Cassidy categorically stated “They did not leave the house until after 1pm on Sunday 4th March.”
What was included:
• An admission that Yulia had come to celebrate her brother’s birthday. His birthday was 1st March which was obviously when Sergei put fresh flowers on his grave, so what was the Monty Python farce in the grave yard all about?
• Also included was the reference to the Wold Cup which went something on the lines of “The World Cup was going on and the rest of the world seemed to have forgotten the Salisbury attack.” Queue the convenient second “poisoning”.
DS BAILEY
The statement from DS Bailey is interesting. Apart from pupils like pin holes and sweating, he didn’t seem to have the other more alarming symptoms of chemical weapons poisoning, loss of control of bodily functions, foaming at the mouth, convulsions. Very strange. Assessing his personality on screen, I’d say he fits into the obedient and compliant category.
Going by early witness statements, and I include the press in that, he was at the bench attending to Sergei while the female doctor attended to Yulia. If she wasn’t poisoned, then neither was Bailey. Yulia and Sergei are taken to hospital by ambulance around 5pm. Witness statements ie neighbours, say the police arrived at Sergei’s house around 5pm, Bailey had the keys. Because Sergei would have been flagged as a person of special interest, the team were most probably instructed to retrieve electronic devices including CCTV cameras, PLURAL, and documents. They all wore the same regulation gloves. If the others weren’t poisoned, then neither was Bailey.
On health issues, men seem to fall into one of two categories, hypochondriacs or presenting at the doctors when terminal. I’d say Bailey possibly falls into the second. He gets home and tells his wife what’s been going on at work and most probably received an ear bashing for the rest of the night and into the following day/days, so when he presents at hospital no wonder he was sweating. He’s rushed into bed, canular in arm for fluids, catheter to drain them off. He can’t leave even if he wanted to. He’s only got their word he was poisoned. If Yulia’s blood test on 22nd March showed unmetabolized nerve agent (Sergei’s didn’t) her sample must have been tampered with. You see where I’m going.
CHRISTOPHER STEELE
I’ve read reports that Sergei had applied, or was planning to apply, for a visa to visit his mother in Russia. In January last year, Christopher Steele had received a High Court Summons and in the US. Sergei had regular lunch dates with Pablo Miller in Salisbury. Now it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that this was discussed. What also might have been discussed is the possibility of Sergei being extradited to the US to give evidence. He’s already served jail time in Russia, he’s getting on in years, his wife died of cancer in 2012, his son died of liver failure in 2017, Yulia returned home and planned to get married, his mother doesn’t have that much longer to live. He can’t afford any more jail time. It’s a bleak picture for Sergei. A spy returning home would put the British SS on high alert. There’s a lot of similarities with the Litvinenko case. It’s also been reported that Boris Beresovsky did not commit suicide by strangling himself with his own cashmere scarf but was murdered by his MI6 handler (CS).
Queue the “assassins”. Christopher Steele is still deeply embedded with the British SS, Foreign Office and the Russia Desk at the British Embassy in Moscow. You can see where I’m going. Two patsies have just made visa applications to visit Salisbury.
DAWN STURGESS & CHARLIE ROWLEY
Most criminals are opportunistic, if the opportunity presents itself, they take it. The British SS and Foreign Office are no exception. If the Met say Charlie Rowley can’t remember where he found the bottle it might be because he’d never seen it. They’re taken ill on 30th June, 4th July confirmed they’ve been poisoned with ‘Novichok’, Dawn dies on 8th July, 13th July police announce they’ve found a bottle containing nerve agent in Charlie’s kitchen, 20th July Charlie leaves hospital. Sounds suspiciously like the bottle was planted.
I’m assuming Charlie is eligible for compensation from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme, much the same as DS Bailey is eligible for compensation for injuries sustained in the line of duty. Bailey will have been made to sign the Official Secrets Act, so might Charlie. If they blab they risk going to prison. If it was a drug overdose, Charlie might also have been told he could go to prison for possession of a class A drug and risk losing his home. Charlie’s what you’d describe as being vulnerable – he’d say anything he was told to.
BELLINGCAT & NOVICHOK
Before I went away I was reading some comments on the Bellingcrap website and one of the commentators seemed to know an awful lot about Novichok class nerve agents. Firstly, these agents need to be freshly mixed because of aging. Secondly, they are highly volatile and vaporise immediately so need to be mixed, he suggested an agent like BZ which is oily, to act as a fixative. That could explain why the female doctor who attended Yulia said there was no sign of her being sprayed with anything on her face or clothing. The fresh batch in the perfume bottle with the oily consistency is merely to reinforce the narrative of how the “assassins” brought the stuff in through Heathrow.
THE SKRIPALS & ABSENCE OF CCTV FOOTAGE
There would be plenty of CCTV footage of the Skripal’s on 4th March and under normal circumstances, when appealing for witnesses, their last movements would be given much publicity. You have to ask yourself what it is about this footage that the government don’t want shown. The answer has to be because the footage would almost certainly show they are perfectly well and have not be poisoned. That happened somewhere near the bench.
I would like to ask all the readers who doubt the UK government’s Novichok narrative to help keep Rob’s blog searchable via Google or other search engines. It is easy to do. 1) The easiest thing is to open The Blogmire.com once a day, for instance, while sipping your morning coffee, or at any other routine occassion. It would take a couple of seconds. 2) A more “time-consuming” thing would be to open Rob’s Summary. That would take another second. Next option would be to do (1) or (2) several times during a day. Also, you could keep The Blogmire.com open while doing some other things like checking on emails, reading news, browsing social media, etc. Users’ activity is helpful in keeping a website at the top of search data.
SERGEI SKRIPAL IS STILL THE OWNER OF HIS HOUSE
Various media on January 8 :
A DEFRA spokesperson added: “We are working with the site owner, Wiltshire Council and other partners to ensure that the house will be fully repaired and returned to a fit state to live in.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/novichok-skripal-salisbury-attack-decontamination-poisoning-nerve-agent-russia-latest-a8718196.html
So Wiltshire Council is NOT the owner of the house, although they announced a few months ago that they will buy Sergei’s and Bailey’s house.
Alistair Cunningham personally confirmed it :
Speaking to BBC Radio Wiltshire, Alistair Cunningham, the chair of the recovery coordination group, confirmed that the house is still privately owned by Sergei Skripal but that he had not yet made clear whether he wishes to return.
The council, he said, would be ready to purchase the house if Mr Skripal decided to sell it:
“Our concern is that if this house were sold, that it should be sold for the right reasons, i.e. this is a family home and should remain a family home.
“We have the ability to purchase the property, if it’s in the wider public interest to do so.”
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-wiltshire-46792956
SERGEI SKRIPAL STILL OWNS THE CHRISTIE MILLER ROAD HOUSE:
There had been speculation that the Government had purchased the site during the decontamination process.
Wiltshire Council has confirmed today that Mr Skripal is still the owner of the house.
They’re also in regular contact with him about the progress of the work there.
If he chooses to sell the property, the authority will help with that too.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2777546/why-is-only-the-roof-being-removed-at-sergei-skripals-house/
But it´s more interesting to listen what Alistair Cunningham said in the audio clip attached to the link above :
„Well, the ultimate goal is that we will bring it back into a state where it is fit for habitation again and it would be given back to the owners. And, ehm, often there is speculation, but if they WERE to sell the house, the Council would on behalf for the residents want to understand what was happening and make sure that it remain a family home. And, you know, the residents wishes in terms of its future use and occupation where, where, ehm,.. really our main consideration in how what happen, for the moment, ehm, is its going back to the owner.“
So, what do we have here ?
Obviously Wiltshire Council wanted to buy Sergei´s house, but Sergei didn´t agree. It seems that Sergei is not willing to sign any papers.
„Sergei Skripal had not yet made clear whether he wishes to return.“
„If he chooses to sell the property, the authority will help with that too.“
„… for the moment, ehm, is its going back to the owner.“
That doesn´t sound as if Sergei had agreed to a witness protection program too. Because IF he did he would not have the option to return to his home.
All in all, it does not sound like Sergei is very cooperative. He will have his reasons for that …
I wonder if the hyper “clean-up” of Skripal’s and Sergeant Bailey’s house is meant to force them into witness protection.
Who is paying for it? They won’t have insurance for it.
Oh well, the integrity initiative answers it
https://www.integrityinitiative.net/articles/social-and-economic-impact-chemical-weapons-attacks
“Who pays for decontamination? In the UK, the unfortunate victim does. As a general matter of UK government policy, the property owner is responsible for cleanup costs in the event of deliberate use of CBRN materials. Unfortunately, CBRN hazards are largely excluded from general insurance cover. It is available as a special product, but it is expensive and it is likely that general households and businesses in places like Salisbury have not shopped around for chemical weapons attack cover… Insurers can easily envisage situations where large CBRN incidents could easily bankrupt the entire insurance industry, so they are quite sparing with such cover. However, the government could be expected to underwrite some of the expenses and has done so in the past. One way or the other, taxpayers bear the economic burden of terrorism.”
“All in all, it does not sound like Sergei is very cooperative. He will have his reasons for that …”
Being dead could be one of them and if that is being denied probate is difficult
D S Bailey could put in a cheap offer…..
I have been wondering what is behind the recent, ie. last few days, spate of Skripal stories in the media. I just noticed this in the Telegraph
>Theresa May’s Brexit deal threatens national security, Sir Richard Dearlove, the former head of MI6, has said.
Sir Richard warns the divorce agreement with Brussels “abrogates” the UK’s security and places aspects of it in “foreign hands”.
The comments came in a letter to Conservative association heads seen by Sky News, he urges them to tell MPs to vote against May’s deal for sake of national security<
Are MI6 priming MPs and the public to support their Brexit agenda?
Excellent summary. I am looking forward to you working as well on the Integrity Initiative – currently, we have to look at Sputnik’s Kit Klarenberg and a few others for excellent articles that are starting to put the puzzle pieces together. At this point we can do more than speculate on the link with the Spiral case, but there is no firm evidence. Still, here’s what I think is most likely:
1. There was a mild link between Sergey Skripal and the Steele dossier. Skripal became a mild nuisance due to his support for the Russian government and a perfect scapegoat-link for a stage-set incident by MI5.
2. MI6 was actively looking for a way in which to paint Russia as a chemical war criminal and link it with the Syria situation, where Russia is surprisingly (and almost unstoppingly) successful, and UK/France/US completely unsuccessful. We know for a fact that De Mesure (of the White Helmets, and of MI6) repeatedly set up fake chemical attacks through the Al Nusra paid stooges.
3. Whether by accident, or more likely on purpose, the Skripals were poisoned, the case was quickly jumped on as ‘the catastrophe needed’ and then the two were kept near-subdued for months.
4. There was no Novichok, anywhere. A small, unusually pure and weather resistant sample was produced at Porton Down in time for the visit by the OPCW. The Skripals were incapacitated but were never in mortal danger.
5. Petrov and Borisov had nothing to do with the Skripals falling ill. It is more likely they had nothing to do with the Skripals at all.
6. MI5 have been using the entire story with repeated storylines that can be used to re-hash the anti-Russia hysteria and the NATO ‘togetherness’: the door handle, the role of Bellingcat, the Bailey interview, Petrov-Borisov, the Rowley accidental murder, now the roof. I do not believe there is any nerve agent danger whatsoever in Salisbury except that mild poison to subdue the Skripals, and later the other type of poison used on the homeless person.
7. MI5 were not totally prepared: Yulia is a bit of a loose cannon and brings them to some level of bumbling on their part. Yet they were more than half prepared, and more and more in control as they keep Yulia and Sergey totally quiet.
Unfortunately there is no way out of this for the Skripals. The Integrity Initiative shows clearly the active work and its reaches.
That’s my take on it.
A bit more on the roof removal from Spire FM may give rise to mirth.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2777546/why-is-only-the-roof-being-removed-at-sergei-skripals-house/
I note that the flue (chimney) over the front door is continuing its movement and is now 60 degrees to vertical.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-skripal-house/skripals-uk-house-to-have-roof-removed-for-nerve-agent-decontamination-idUKKCN1P21JQ
Excuse unintended repeat, Rob, please delete duplicate
Please delete, I meant
Could the flue be a microwave transmitter?
I suspect it housed a CCTV camera
A bit more on the roof removal from Spire FM should give rise to mirth.
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2777546/why-is-only-the-roof-being-removed-at-sergei-skripals-house/
I note that the flue (chimney) over the front door is continuing its movement and is now 60 degrees to vertical.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-skripal-house/skripals-uk-house-to-have-roof-removed-for-nerve-agent-decontamination-idUKKCN1P21JQ
Rob,
Succinct and superb.
I will find a way of getting George Galloway to pick up the focus. We need airtime and circulation.
Blogmirers, spread the word.
On a related side note:
I should have received my copy of the complaint findings regarding my letter to Wiltshire Police Standards. This of course relates to the duck feed and the three boys meeting and sharing bread with the Skripals and the police delay in informing the parents.
Anyway, the inspector compiling the report kindly let me know that his initial report was being redacted in part by his superiors, due to the sensitive nature of his investigation on my behalf.
I therefore hope to shortly receive my copy. Suitably redacted of course.
Last year was not a good year for the Wiltshire Air Ambulance (G-WLTS)
It was grounded when it had an engine failure and went into a spin
Its was grounded again when it didn’t attend the Amesbury poisoning
(But it wasn’t grounded when it attended the Salisbury poisoning.)
And this year it has been grounded again, because the people that operate it have decided to pack up their business. (voluntary liquidation)
Don’t know why perhaps some sleuths on here can find out?
https://helihub.com/tag/wiltshire-air-ambulance/
I’m not being sarcastic, Peter, but a helicopter going into a spin?
If if had an engine failure (but it’s a twin) the normal procedure would be to carry out an auto-rotation to a landing – this is a standard procedure on engine failure provided the aircraft is on the good side of the avoid curve.
Perhaps what you’ve read refers to auto-rotation.
I think it must have been the back rotor because just above the ground the top rotor transefed it’s torque to the aircraft body and the aircraft body started to spin rather than the blades.
Very scary often fatal
Ah, OK, I understand now.
From you link, Peter:
“I want to thank those well-wishers and supporters who have offered their support and redoubled their fundraising efforts for the charity since our Bell 429 was grounded last week.”
With the contingency plan in operation from Friday, this allows us to continue working behind the scenes on a replacement Air Operator Certificate, while the analysis of Flight Data Recorder from the Bell 429 remains in progress.”
.
.
“..analysis of Flight Data Recorder from the Bell 429…”
What a very odd thing to say. What ‘analysis’ is that all about?
And it seems WAA were taken by surprise with this announcement, they didn’t have a replacement in place on 4th January… which is odd. If this was a ‘voluntary’ liquidation, it was decided by the directors of Heli Charter Limited, they chose the date , so did they not warn WAA and their other clients that it was going to happen?
It makes you wonder if Heli Charter Limited is being punished by TPTB for its involvement on 4 March?
“It makes you wonder if Heli Charter Limited is being punished by TPTB for its involvement on 4 March?”
Possibly but the company went into voluntary liquidation, according to The Isle of Thanet News:
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2019/01/03/manstons-heli-charter-ltd-goes-into-voluntary-liquidation/
There were only two active directors, both appointed on 25 January 2018:
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02163475/officers
A key factor in this change, and possibly the subsequent wind-up of the business, was the death of the founder Ken Wills in October 2017:
https://theisleofthanetnews.com/2017/10/26/tribute-paid-to-broadstairs-businessman-and-pilot-ken-wills/
FWIW iirc Miheila mentioned that Heli Charter were based at Manston, and that may have explained why the WAA helicopter went there from time to time.
Probably entirely coincidental, and decidedly off topic, but Manston’s just come back into the news due to the 150, or 79, trucks who took part in the Operation Brock exercise earlier this week.
This is no way to say thank you to Rob, for his sterling work, but THANK YOU, ROB! It took me all day yesterday, on and off, to read this blog entry and it was worth every minute (I even noticed the rogue apostrophes in duck’s, twice, and I think they were a sneaky test to see whether I was paying proper attention).
Eleanor, ‘Voluntary liquidation’ is entirely the point! The directors decided the time of it, yet didn’t bother to discuss with clients like WAA who were left high and dry. It was done THAT quickly! Why?
From your link:
“A spokesman for Heli Charter Ltd said: “Following the sad passing of Ken Wills back in October 2017, Heli Charter in Manston had continued to trade in the service and supply of Bell Helicopters.
“During the last quarter of 2018 it became apparent that the investment needed to sustain and grow the business was not economically viable.
“A voluntary liquidation of Heli Charter Limited has now been sought. The decision was not reached lightly by directors. The directors interest remains firmly in providing a long term aviation business at Manston, with their focus on Summit Aviation.””
Frankly, that simply does not pass the smell test! They failed to get financing so decided to liquidate? Not to try to find a buyer? Or a partner? They tried for a few weeks and then… gave up???
The company was clearly solvent because they could not do a voluntary liquidation if it was not. When you add in the REALLY curious statement from WAA that the flight data recorder is being analysed… well somebody is blowing smoke!
Compare with how hard companies usually try to stay in business… and HCL had been boasting about how well it was doing very recently… yet “During the last quarter of 2018 it became apparent…” – I call BS on that!
My point was simply that Heli Charter, once Kens Wills had died, was just not the company it had been; and that realistically has to be a consideration when trying to assess the reasons for closing down.
You think I’m disagreeing with you, but I’m not – it may well be that you’re right about the drying up of contracts post-Salisbury, but there may be other factors as well.
They’re just making the predictable noises, under the circumstances.
Eleanor, Ken Wills died some time ago. If it took HCL a year to realise that they couldn’t carry on business without him (TBH possible but unlikely) they might have been rather more organised and at least given their clients some warning. WAA were left scrambling to find a contingency plan. That is really not normal. Obviously we don’t have the full details but they were selling new and used Bell helicopters in the UK… I would have thought those rights would be a valuable asset that another company would buy but instead, they went into voluntary liquidation?
And I would love to know what the analysis of WAA’s flight date recorder is all about…
And remember that ‘odd’ Salisbury Incident page, WAA posted and then took down?
http://web.archive.org/web/20180623172425/http://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/salisbury-incident
Nothing smells right, or sounds credible anymore.
Paul, Ken Wills died in October 2017 and in legal terms, everything would have been backdated to his date of death. In January 2018, there was one surviving director, an elderly director of engineering. Then, on 26 January, two new directors were appointed and the director of engineering resigned the next day.
A complete change of board, with two newcomers (one of whom seems to have a string of dissolved companies under his belt, but who is actively involved in the company that runs Manston) who are neither the director who was passionate about helicoptors nor his director of engineering. The tax year end for Heli Charter was 31 December, accounts for 2018 haven’t been filed and the company goes into voluntary liquidation on 3 January (if I’ve read it right).
So WAA may not have seen the writing on the wall, as far as their heli was involved. However, like you, something feels odd and it’s entirely triggered by the WAA heli landing in the vicinity of The Maltings incident. This was a vehicle with a visible livery that seems to have done all sorts of other non-Emergency Service work but always with the prestigious WAA livery that would make it both respectable and, of course, memorable.
Maybe the two incoming directors thought they could make a success of the company after the handover but their clients felt they lacked the necessary experience; maybe the intention was to wind the company down; maybe the intention was to asset strip it and (forgive the imagery) and jump ship before contact was made with the iceberg. Even if the company was solvent prior to liquidation, there seems to have been a charge on it and maybe that couldn’t be serviced.
It all looks odd to me but that’s because I’m all at sea as far as the subject matter is concerned. But I don’t think that it was down to Heli Charter to say to say ‘look, we’re going bust’, it was down to the financial control mechanisms at WAA to monitor what was going on with whomever they were doing business (that’s purely my lay opinion).
The only charge was with Barclay’s Bank. I read it and it is a pretty standard “all monies” charge that would be to support their normal banking operations.
My point Eleanor, is that it all seems to have happened very quickly and that left WAA in the lurch. WAA didn’t even have its own operator’s license, which I think it could have obtained, had it known it needed it. In a voluntary liquidation, the company must be solvent… or it can’t wind up that way. So there was never any need for WAA to have been helicoptorless for a week. It just looks odd – to be added to the pile of oddities.
According to Spire FM the Air Ambulance did not take Yulia to the hospital
https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2527336/air-ambulance-not-used-to-take-skripal-pair-to-hospital/
but it was spotted on the day according to this witness and according to Salisbury Journal landed in central car park that afternoon https://www.facebook.com/itvnewsmeridian/videos/1699234906804241/
So it landed but they decided not to use it?
This article states the pair went by air ambulance https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16064166.Russian_spy_is_one_of_two_in_hospital_after_medical_emergency_at_Maltings/
I dont believe the content on this page is all authentically produced on 4th March
You’re right, Neil, the most recent modification to the page is shown as:
“datePublished”: “2018-03-04T17:48:03Z”,
“dateModified”: “2018-03-06T23:00:57Z”,
although I don’t think there’s any way to find out how many interim modifications / edits there were, nor what was added, changed or removed and when.
A message sent to Margareta S. a few minutes ago, in reply to recent messages (I posted a couple on here yesterday):
И вообще мы тут который месяц шутки шутим — Петров, Боширов, Скрипаль, маечки “Вы работаете в ГРУ?”, мемасики, балаган, смехуёчечки. А вот прикиньте каково теперь грушникам за границей работать? Представьте: разрабатывает человек серьезного источника в какой-нибудь ну очень серьезной стране, долго, нудно. И приходит пора делать предложение — вербовать, тащемта. И он такой, предположим, на чистом английском: “Дорогой друг! Я представляю российскую военную разведку, мы готовы платить вам серьезные деньги за вашу информацию и помощь нашему государству!”. А тот: “Аахахахаха! Солсбери, йес? Шпилли-вилли, йес? Да ну вас нахуй!”. И такое — на долгие-долгие годы.
And in general, we’ve been joking around here for a month – Petrov, Boshirov, Skripal, “Do you work for the GRU?” T-shirts, memes, a farce, laughs. But think for now what are the foreigners abroad working at? Imagine this: somebody is developing a important source in some important country – a long, tedious job. And the time comes to make an offer – to recruit. And he’s like this, let’s suppose, in pure English: “Dear friend! I represent Russian military intelligence, we are ready to pay you serious money for your information and help our state!” And the reply: “Ahahahaha! Salisbury, yes? Spilli-Willi [?], yes? Oh f*** you!”. And this [will go on] – for many, many years.
That’s a very good point, and could be an aim of MI6 and it stooges, II, IfS, 77th Brigade etc.
No. Somebody is pointing out that the Russian response is completely inadequate.
“Somebody”, Anidea. Who, exactly? That’s not the way I read it – it may have something to do with being Welsh.
Russia has part of the puzzle of what happened in Salisbury.
The way Theresa May played it made sure Russia would sulk. This was the intention. Britain did not wish communication with Russia.
It would have been more intelligent to simple offer cooperation without all the background noise.
It is possible though that Russia does not want communication either and all this is Kabuki.
add
http://theconversation.com/why-russias-dirty-money-is-not-leaving-london-any-time-soon-96952
From what I hear, they couldn’t do that… if Russia had been given samples of the poison actually used, they would have discovered that it was indeed a Soviet era product… and they would have realised that the actual product for the stunt, had been ‘provided’ by the Americans.
Hence Russia had to be kept out of the ‘investigation’ loop at all costs… and of course the OPCW couldn’t tell anyone what it was either… so they didn’t. It is also why Boris Johnson was so ‘sure’ the poison was “Russian”… because he knew where it had actually come from.
I agree, Britain did not wish to communicate.
For some reason Uglev was misquoted or selectively quoted in British media.
He seems to have said that substances might have remained stable for 50 years. So that it might have been stuff owned by Russian mafia.
For the reason the Russian mafia is operating freely in Britain, you have to ask the city of London.
Usually mafia works by buying political influence. British journalists can see that happening in Russia but have a problem to find it in Britain.
Secret services also have a reputation for working with mafia, the CIA famously did that in Italy.
Again, British journalists can clearly see that happening in Russia but not in Britain.
There is this
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/04/world/europe/oleg-deripaska-russia-oligarch-sanctions.html
and this
https://themarketswork.com/2018/11/21/is-mueller-probe-of-manafort-actually-looking-into-russian-oligarch-deripaska/
In 2012, Waldman hired Steele’s firm, Orbis Business Intelligence, on Deripaska’s behalf in order to assist Deripaska against a lawsuit filed “by a business rival,” according to an article by John Solomon for The Hill.
The “business rival” likely relates to Michael Cherney, who claimed he was owed 20 percent of shares in Deripaska’s aluminum giant, Rusal.
Deripaska has admitted to “having paid Cherney $250 million following a 2001 meeting in London’s Lanesborough Hotel,” The Guardian reported. But Deripaska argued “that the sum was a final installment of an extortion—or krysha—payment to organized crime groups represented by Cherney.”
And there is of course this
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/britain-oligarchs-russia-corruption-organised-crime-mafia-jose-grinda-a8399391.html
“The prosecutor, highlighting British failings, claimed authorities in the UK had failed to arrest a Russian-Israeli businessman, Michael Cherney, when he visited in 2009, despite an Interpol arrest warrant issued against him. ”
The Spanish believe Mr Cherney to be the leader of the “Izmailovskaya”, one of Russia’s most high-profile mafia groups.
Mr Grinda said he subsequently raised the issue in 2012 with a British representative, who told him there would be a change in approach, a change he claims has not happened.
So was Skripal involved in Orbis working for Deripaska (against Cherney) and is that the reason
Britain does not want him to talk about it.
I certainly think there is something HMG does not want Sergei to talk about. Exactly what that might be, I don’t know but I think Sergei knew he had a problem and that was why he went looking for the best deal he could get – from somebody else.
Cherney used to be a “friend” of Berezovsky.
https://pravo.ru/store/interdoc/doc/362/berezovsky_judgment.pdf
So did Mi6 – and Orbis – get involved in the Russian aluminium wars?
As were London lawyers and courts?
Britain refused a visa to Abramovich for some reason after the Skripal case. Deripaska seems to be okay with them.
“Again, British journalists can clearly see that happening in Russia but not in Britain.”
It might not be quite as cut and dried as you think:
https://twitter.com/MirrorAsp/status/978377430183313409
You are of course right. But they seem to risk their career saying (or researching) it.
Michel Cherney (and Deripaska) fun from Israel
https://www.novinite.com/articles/111687/Michael+Cherney%3A+On+Deripaska%2C+the+Russian+mafia+and+the+Israeli+police
If Skripal was cooperating with Spain that is seriously going after Cherney he might have had a problem from several sides …
I tried posting yesterday using my name and email but was blocked. So this is a test.
But also – why hasn’t Theresa May corrected the Commons Record over her DSB was “first at the scene” statement, after the Mail gave the names of those who were the first responders?
Why has nobody (including Mark Urban) followed up what Mark Urban said at the book signing that Boshirov/Chepiga and Fedotov had travelled to the UK together on the same days (beginning of March) in 2016 and 2017.
Boshirov returns in 2018 this time partnered with a doctor (was Sergei sick already!?)
If he was sick from exposure that would offer another explanation why he couldn’t drive to Heathrow, go to London for the meet, fix his shower.
Add the Czech information that they were in Prague when Skripal was-
Thank you, Rob. A succinct summary of the Skripal saga. Well done!
– 9/11 Achilles’ heel will always remain WTC7.
– Skripals Achilles’ heel will always be the duck feeding.
No matter how hard TPTB try to wipe the above under the rug, sling it out of sight or kick it down a memory hole, those who manage to tie their shoelaces together in the morning, are fully aware of being lied to y the UK covenment and the varies, hydra agencies [minus the genius angle].
– There was a [UK covenment] plan, wrt to at least Sergei Skripal.
– Not everything did go according to the covenment’s plan [on Sunday the 4th of March, 2018].
– Obviously the covenment didn’t have a real ‘plan B.’
– The changing stories and the absence of all the CCTV footage with either the Skripals on them, what really happened to whom on the bench, who went where and how is a telltale sign of TPTB lying through their teeth.
TPTB hope time will wear people down and give up on finding the perps who murdered Dawn and/or give up on finding out what really happened on Sunday, 4th of March, 2018 in Salisbury.
Yes, some will carry o with their lives as if nothing happened [I have friends who are living proof of this], but I know others who’re determined to carry onward with the torch of truth firmly lighting up their path.
No mention of the letter from the Hospital consultant to the Times newspaper? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYrH1oRWkAAK-Dn.jpg:large
Tour de force, Rob!
Also, increases the number of questions that it begs. For example, if the Zizzi table were so contaminated that it had to be destroyed, why was nobody else poisoned from Sunday afternoon until early Monday evening when Zizzi was closed? Same applies to the park bench; only the time frame for others to have been poisoned would be limited to roughly the one hour period from 4:15 PM 4 Mar.
Personally, I think all of ‘the incident’ witness statements may be deeply flawed. As you’ve pointed out, none of these self-identified witnesses have seen a still shot of the two individuals on that day to jog their memory. Also, not sure either Skripal were known to the Zizzi or Pub staff that were on duty that Sunday.
Finally, while I agree that P & B had some sort of business to conduct in Salisbury and that it would have been of short duration — such as handing off or picking up something small — too many locations and people in between the Shell station on Wilton Road and 47 Christie Miller even to begin to posit that their assignation was with Skripal. As they attempted to rendezvous on Saturday and were impeded when they got there, it suggests that there was no in-country phone/text contact. That in turn suggests a meet-up at a business. So, I’m with Peter Beswick on this point.
Rob, thank you very much for your great analytical work on the Skripal case.
Maybe, the following is of interest in the context of your future analysis of Integrity Initiative:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/09/free-societies-russia-misinformation-integrity-initiative
The writer says that he was named in leaked files.
Hi Peter B,
Its lovely to have you back reporting again. I’m looking forward to your further revelations on the Salisbury gyms. Last night I noticed something Salisbury gym related, that might be useful.
On Dawn Sturgess’ facebook page, which surprise, surprise, has had all it entries deleted between April 5th 2017 and May 22nd 2018, the Skripal hoax period, I found in Dawn’s ‘facebook likes’ list, that Dawn was interested in body builders. For example she ‘facebook liked’ the hansom body builder, Tavi Castro.
But more importantly Dawn had also ‘facebook liked’ the Salisbury City Boxing Club which is located at Churchfields Industrial Estate, Brunel Road, Salisbury. Not at all far from the Shell service station in Wilton Road!
Could Dawn have been at the Salisbury Boxing Club on Saturday or Sunday when Russ and Alex visited, to sell their ‘fitness supplements’ and could ‘The Powers That Be’ not have been able to keep her quiet about this, with intimidation because of her alcoholism? Which could have meant they needed to take more serious actions to silence her in July?
Here is Tavi Castro’s facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/tavicastroofficial/
Here is the Salisbury district Boxing club’s facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/carlscabc/
Here is what’s left of Dawn Sturgess’ facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/dawn.sturgess.7
Thank you Denise
You may be a lot closer to understanding the back story than most.
Unfortunately the people that might be involved are vulnerable beyond most peoples comprehension.
But good find
It’s possible that Dawn had to be ‘taken care of’ before the Russ and Alex assassin claims could be made and their pictures released to the public? This would explain the huge delay before TPTB pronounced the Russ and Alex, without a trial, guilty verdict?
Does anyone know if facebook posts are archived anywhere, so we can see if Dawn posted anything interesting around the March 4th 2018?
That would have been possible (and easier) without the “Novichok”.
The person who did this was careless or intended the perfume bottle of Novichok to be found in a very public manner.
Add: The person who did this knew the exact type of Novichok that had been used on the Skripals.
Denise, good and interesting catch. The deletion of her 4/5 through 5/22 Facebook posts is curious. (Zuckerberg can find out what was in them — also capable (and willing) to delete any on request of TPTB.) Could be a connection between Sturgess and the SBC (or the boxing/weight training community), but that wouldn’t have been where P&B were headed on 4 Mar as they would have taken Churchfield from the train station and not Wilton. Publicly, very little is known about Sturgess. Tend to doubt that she was taken out to clear the way for the P&B reveal, but as my mind doesn’t easily accept sinister violence, my take may be worthless.
Hi Marie, I think, as Peter said, Russ and Alex could have been scouting out new ‘supplement’ business. So their route could have taken in the Monster Factory, Simon Anderson Fitness, Alpha & Omega and then the Salisbury Boxing Club. They don’t need to have gone straight from the Shell service station to the Boxing Club, if they were calling in elsewhere on the way?
Alternatively, Dawn could easily have been at any of the other gyms when Russ and Alex visited on either of those days?
Or straight from the railway station.
Alpha & Omega was my guess a few months ago when I looked at this angle. Right location and put the two there at or near scheduled closing time both days. Most likely it didn’t open on that Saturday. My other guess is that they made their connection on Sunday and were then given a lift to downtown.
Marie, yes Zuckerberg would be extremely willing to co-operated with MI56, in deleting Dawn’s posts, especially seeing as how facebook funded the Integrity Initiative to the tune of $100,000 or was it pounds?
Precisely, Denise. Any information on when they were deleted?
Thank you Rob for this excellent summary and for your detailed and thoroughly researched posts on the Skripal poisoning saga.
Best wishes for you and The Blogmire in 2019: you probably would prefer to go back to posting on issues of most interest and concern to yourself and the Salisbury community but I fear that Life As We Used To Know It is never going to return.
This must be the battlefield Novichok.
https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/17343540.amesbury-ambulance-station-may-never-reopen-after-nerve-agent-attack/
The three boys were exposed to the insidious slow acting version.
Are there really NO UK journalists?
We remember this FB post by John McNeill Opportunity Centre on March 7 :
DON’T PANIC! Everything is fine but if you see or hear that our car park is full of ambulances, emergency response vehicles, paramedics and police they are ONLY TRAINING!! There has not been an incident and we will be open as normal tomorrow and hopefully they will have gained a lot from using our facilities! We did not know it was going to happen so it was a surprise to us too!
This is training – there is always high level training following any incidents involving the public. There certainly has not been any involvement at John McNeill Opp Centre but they are using our space as the car park is next to ambulance station. Please do not worry about us being contaminated or that the children are at risk – I would certainly notify you if they were any concerns!!
https://www.facebook.com/JohnMcNeillOpportunityCentreSalisbury/posts/2429470317070532
Of course there are. They work for RT.
Rob,
Thank you for an excellent and important summary of the good work you have done. Your work brings to mind the comment by one of my senior law partners, who said. “You mean they pay me to do this?” He did great work, and enjoyed it. He was also paid for doing what he loved.
You have done great work, well written, analyzed, and researched. The quality of your work indicates that you enjoy it. as it is far better than the work produced by people who are paid for their writings.
There are few things more important than preventing unnecessary war, particularly one with significant nuclear implications. In addition to the threat to life, is the threat to liberty which come from a press that is not free from over arching governmental influence.
Yours is a work of love for man and truth, your earthly reward may be uncertain, but in heaven, no doubt.
Ambulance station shut down by military for decontamination after Salisbury novichok attack needs so much refurbishment work it may never re-open
By Joe Middleton For Mailonline
Sighs
The link :
http://www.yourvalleynews.co.uk/frontpage-news/amesbury-ambulance-station-may-close/
Nobody has ever explained why Amesbury Ambulance Station was contaminated in the first place. The two ambulances that allegedly transported the Skripals were located at Salisbury Ambulance Station and were recovered there.
Were Amesbury ambulances used for Charlie and Dawn?
What have they got to do with it? Apart from absolutely nothing, of course.
I am frequently amazed that people who (rightly) are deeply skeptical about mainstream media reports about this matter nevertheless swallow whole this absurd storyline about novichok in perfume bottles.
I do not believe that Rowley and his late girlfriend had anything whatsoever to do with this incident.
I put in a Freedom of Information Request to the Ambulance service to clarify this and other points they responded by saying that they have been advised that the police are handling their FoIRs on this matter so I requested an Internal Review
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wiltshire_poisonings_ambulance_a#outgoing-849153
Brilliant, Rob ! Well structured, easy to read and easy to understand.
With every sentence you debunk the HMG narrative. Right so.
My wish for the New Year : Some brave journalists will follow your argumentation and start to ask the right questions. And some authorities will answer this questions honestly.
Great summary!
It is a pity that Rob is stopping the articles about the poisoning, even as it is understandable lets hope that he will come back to this some day. It is amazing this has not been reported anywhere in MSM news or in the world news outlets. So far was with the “independent media”.
Even as it is OVER, I have few questions and thoughts, if some one can answer. I hope Rob to allow some more discussions just clarifying the details,
1. Is it truth that “Charlie Rowley explicitly said that the box he found had a cellophane wrapping”?
I remember that I read that he have tore paper packaging which have been in very bad shape. Is ir really sure that the perfume has not been opened and with cellophane?
2. The read bag of Yulia –
I just wonder is there some clear picture of it? How big it was? Why she wore it but not left it in the car? As I understand it was bigger that ordinary lady purse. She didn’t bought anything from the shops before Zizzi so she must have wearing this bag all the time after leaving the house? What so special about this bag? What it contained?
3. The ducks feeding episode –
At the end, this happened where – at Avon Playground or at Queen Elizabeth Gardens pond?
https://www.theblogmire.com/its-the-wrong-park-how-the-ducks-raise-some-serious-questions-in-the-salisbury-poisonings/
4. Where were Sergei and Yulia prior to arriving to Zizzi, between 13:40 and 14:20 ? How the perfume bottle ended at the dump bin at Catherine street three and half mounts later?
By the way, the latest news of removing the Scripal house roof, also proves my suspicion that there must have been a large source of contamination with Novichok inside the Scripal house, probably in Alexander room under attics, and this have been the primary source of the contamination . The statement that Novichok can reach from the door handle upwards to the attics is ludicrous. Liquids moves downwards, they don’t elevates, except if physics laws around Scripal house are different from the rest of the Universe. But even so why not the rest of the whole house and the walls was not contaminated? Somehow Novichok not only moves upwards but also jumps around until collecting at the roof? Ho ho ho….:)
1) Yes Charlie said it was covered with plastic but “thick like a packet of bacon”
2) Yes there is a CCTV footage of the female’s red bag in the duck feeding incident. there is another? red bag of the female caught on the Snap Fitness CCTV and this is the same female seen at the bench by Freya Church and Ollie Field.
3) Duck feeding at Avon Playground between Sainsburys and Tesco 15 minutes after the door handle was last touched (official narrative)
4) Where did they go after the duck feeding? The CCTV can answer that quetion
4)
Novichok is magical. A gram can instantly kill hundreds of thousands. The effect can also be delayed for hours and not kill at all.
On the – https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/08/skripal-home-dismantled-military-prepare-remove-roof-salisbury/ – roof replacement, theater in lieu of destroying the whole house? Note: no protective gear for those pictured outside the house. As Novichok can migrate from a door handle to interior roof beams, shouldn’t all those in the neighborhood have been wearing protection since March?
I’m still wondering how the dynamic duo Laurelov and Hardyov got on the Skripals roof without being seen.
And I’m wondering how that little throat dispenser managed to squirt that high.
I feel compelled to come here and write a comment to thank you, Rob, for this excellent summary of the current holes in the Skipal story. It has been such a great resource over recent months to have both your work, and the contributors by many commentors. Best of luck in your future endeavours.
Many thanks for you marvellous work, Rob. With citizens like you doing this kind of reporting, why do we need the hopelessly compromised, bribed, terrified presstitutes?
I repeat what I have said before: the only thing about which I can be absolutely certain is that, in this affair, HMG and the police have deliberately, systematically lied in their teeth. The implications are far beyond disturbing: they are ghastly. The UK no longer has an honest media, police force, civil service or government. We have undergone a silent coup d’etat by criminals.
The best review of the case I’ve read, well perhaps the only one but excellent nonetheless. At the moment there may not be too many members of the British public questioning the government’s narrative but if more material emerges about the Integrity Initiative and people start to ask questions then we can refer them to this piece. One of my ‘focus group’ agreed that the press was contradicting itself all the time but that was the fault if the press but not the authorities.
Rob, for the benefit of sharing this document with persons living outside the UK, I think it would be extremely helpful if you would spell out the acronyms’ reference on their first use. The world should know these things and they’re not going to get it on Wikipedia.
@Bob Moore
List of abbreviations: https://www.flickr.com/photos/13538808@N03/44794705352/in/dateposted-public/
@Bob Moore
Here’s an updated version: https://www.flickr.com/photos/13538808@N03/31752653207/in/dateposted-public/
The updated version not readable I found: I’d make the effort to make it so if anyone desires it.
The only scenario that works for me.
1) Skripal is an active Russian asset
2) He wasn’t recruited in Madrid, he did the recruiting.
3) His “handler” had him sprung in the spy swap.
4) His “handler” brought him to the heart of the British military.
5) Sergei bumbled around making friends, picking up info.
6) Through the friend of a plumbing friend he made contact with PD scientist.
7) He was supplied with CBW samples and stored them in the 47CMR.
8) The GRU came the same week each year to supply money, take away samples.
9) MI6 thought something was up. Sent a BBC journalist to interview him for a book. Actually this was instead of questioning him formally. If he hadn’t agreed alarm bells would ring.
10) The GRU arrive. Sergei was supposed to meet them at Waterloo on the Friday but because of snow couldn’t make it.
11) GRU did dry run Saturday, decided on Priory Sq. steps for handover.
12) All this observed by MI5/6
13) Then either he accidentally got A234 on himself or it was thought a wheeze to use A234 as the method of his “assassination”.
14) All backup available. Helicopter, ambulances, police.
15) Abduction goes down after exchange.
16) PD scientist or middle-person knows they are being watched so lay low, then dump Nina Ricci bottle.
17) Dawn finds it.
Sounds nice except for the A234 being common knowledge. Nothing of value.
Might just as well be White Helmets trying to aquire Novichok.
But this is Fantasy Land.
Far too many variables chap.
And maybe the media are lying about Dawn Sturgess?
They media do that sometimes you know (lie). Who would have thought it?!
Absolutely magnificent Rob – excellent work.
I’d probably have added the hugely unlikely simultaneious-collapse-after-hours-of-apparent-symptom-free-behaviour issue too, but you’ve completely nailed it otherwise.
I’ve been trying to get Ian Dunt, editor of politics.co.uk, who published Dan Kaszeta’s Integrity Initiative paid-for piece, to comment on it, but he’s continuing to ignore me and the 140+ people who have retweeted my question to him.
Enjoy your Skripal-retirement.
This is excellent. I have tweeted it, as I didn’t see that anyone else had.
Thanks so much for the summative article….much appreciated is your clear writing style. Keep going on the II….eg see the article on off-guardian recently…”dads army”…such things are this are a direct threat to a publicly engaged system of democracy whatever it is we have left of that claim….and what is exposed so far by Anonymous (thank goodness for them but amazing we have to rely on such a thing)and not a “free press” that is clearly in cahouts with such things as the Russian Language programme…the EU unit fighting so called Russian disinformation…may only be the tip of an iceberg that with various backers appears to be determined to militiarise uk politics to an even further extant to the point of that civic needs are way down the list of Gavin Williamson hoping to be PM and co(GCHQ…infiltated intelligence and police services…a bought press…unknown government spokespersons…whole cabals of sinister motivated peoples)….never (apart from Iraq war)in my life have I felt so betrayed and disgusted by those responsible for my life and the country I live in. And at the moment there does not seem to be any way back to sensibility.
Very well done Rob, I hope that piece gets copied far and wide, as far as the Russian “suspects” are concerned I think their alibi stands up to scrutiny. The Met case clearly doesn’t. As you say the Met gave us very little evidence of the pair’s activity on Saturday but what they did give was deliberately false.
The Met said the pair caught a train back to London at 4:10pm but then stupidly published a photograph of them timed at 4:11 at the station but not yet passed the turnstiles to get access to the platforms and trains. There was a train to London scheduled for 4:20 but that was cancelled, the earliest they could have caught was 4:45. We don’t know what the pair did in Salisbury but we know for certain that the police have their movements recorded on the network of CCTV cameras throughout the City. We are however not allowed to see that evidence.
And then Sunday.
Closer to the Shell petrol station than 47 Christie Miller Rd (the Skripal home) are two Power Gyms; the Monster Factory (corner of Wilton Rd and New Zealand Rd) and Alpha & Omega (bottom of Cherry orchard Rd).
The pair openly admit to dealing in sports supplements, some of which may not be licensed for UK use, they are however extremely careful about revealing the customers / potential customers identities. Confidentiality is fundamental to their business ethos.
Only 3 CCTV photo locations of the pair’s 4th March visit (that are not air / rail transport related) All 3 Locations are close to power gyms in Salisbury. Also close to the Monster Factory is the private address of Simon Anderson Fitness, he rums fitness classes at several locations throughout Salisbury.
So close to the Shell garage CCTV, closer than the Skripal Home (415m) are Monster Factory (385m) and Alpha & Omega (375m)
Close to the City Hall CCTV (corner of Fisherton St and Summerlock Approach) is Sportsdirect Gym (130m). And Close to the CCTV on Fisherton St Bridge (opposite the Mill Pub) is Snap Fitness (160m). There are other gyms close by but these specialise in power muscle building and physique management.
It is entirely reasonable to assume that if that is their line of work (and presumably their Visas will reflect this if they are being honest) then if they are visiting a Customer in Salisbury (which I have good reason to suspect they were), they would check out a potential new customer base.
The route around these gyms would take you 250m from the Cathedral a total distance for the route is 6.25km, which aligns with the CCTV timestamps and the alleged Coffee Break at the Cathedral
From the transcript of the TV interview
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/13/skripal-suspects-interview-read-full-transcript/
“What do they do for work?
Boshirov: We are ordinary entrepreneurs. If we talk about our business it will suffer, and the people we work with will suffer, and we don’t want this.
Petrov: We will reduce the search area for your colleagues. It’s the fitness industry, related to sport nutrition, vitamins, micro-elements, proteins, gainers and so on. If we say more, our partners and a wide circle of acquaintances.
We consult here, now the trend is to consult not about growing your biceps but about keeping your figure, healthy lifestyle.
Boshirov:Eating right, a healthy lifestyle – we don’t want to bring attention to this, to get deeper into these questions, I wouldn’t want people among our clients to suffer.”
Map of Gyms and Cameras
https://ibb.co/4m578RM
And an interesting Response to a Freedom of Information Request from Public Health England
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/public_advice_on_novichok_wiltsh
Welcome back to the forum Peter. Brilliant summary by Rob. Have you had any luck with the other freedom of information requests on the video evidence?
Thank you and Yes FoIR’s are progressing (a slow business) the new website(s) will have the details
Hello Peter !
To the Freedom of Information Request :
The answer to 2) makes no sense to me.
First : Neither PHE nor OPCW answered a to a question – they both made statements.
Second : Given that the Skripals received a high dose,
– PHE said the Novichok presents its symptoms (through skin contact) after 3 hours (upper limit).
– OPCW said symptoms will appear through skin contact between 20 and 30 minutes.
Why do they now claim both statements are correct, but answer different questions ???
As I understand the OPCW the upper limit is 30 minutes (in Dawns case it was 15 minutes).
The OPCW statement does NOT refer to an average time, it clearly says between 20 and 30 minutes.
So for me it´s a BIG difference between PHE (upper limit 3 hours) and OPCW (upper limit 30 minutes). To be precise, the difference is 120 minutes. But yeah – it´s Salisbury…
Woman and math…
The difference is 150 minutes.
Intrigued by this and, of course, Cain Prince and Freya Church worked at Snap Fitness. The importance of gyms.
Yes also Ollie Field was a client of the gym, when he left on the 4th March he saw the “blonde bird” on the bench collapsed alongside the male.
Yulia had red hair
The Gyms are very significant but I cant give you more details at the moment
“This has made a mess of [Integrity Initiative’s] operations, they are spending most of their time now trying to fire-fight on the coverage this is getting. And they are not doing essentially what they are being paid to do, which is to counter the Russians,” David Miller, Professor of Political Sociology at the University of Bristol School for Policy Studies, told RT.
“The British government is getting bad value for money, if it was ever getting better value.”
https://www.rt.com/news/448325-integrity-initiative-shut-down-leaks/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/09/free-societies-russia-misinformation-integrity-initiative#comment-124442900
Looks like the Integrity Initiative is engaging in some damage limitation
Bravo, Rob and thank you. I hope your readers with share this excellent summary with as many people as they think might be interested – and with a few who probably wouldn’t be but it’s worth a go. This set of official lies has to be exposed to as many people as possible.
Breaking news from Margarita Simonyan:
Юлия и Сергей Скрипаль находят номер телефона Маргариты Симоньян
▪️Дают интервью RT.
Yulia and Sergey Skripal find the phone number of Margarita Simonyan
▪️To interview RT.
Stay tuned!
Also from her, just now:
The British authorities believe that the Foreign Intelligence Service is more dangerous and professional than their Chief Intelligence Officer.
Make of that what you will.
It includes a photo of an RT T-shirt with (in Russian:
“Do you work for the SVR?” 🙂
I can’t find a URL for this. Is it a tweet?
Tanks, Miheila. Is this the source :
https://tgstat.ru/en/channel/@borodav/7393 ?
It’s not from Simonyan, just an apparently unsourced report from a blogger. I am not holding my breath.
No, my source was on her messenger (I get sent them automatically as they arrive), but on checking I saw that it had been passed on from the source you gave, It seems as if it was a joke, but it led to an important comment. See my next post above.
I’ve read some. Back later! Thank you very much for your clarity.
One think I noticed early on was, the story sounded crazy … mainly as you say from the speed of accusing in parliament, and also the dramatic and strange way the alleged poisoning was done, and I wanted to read opinions from journalists or academics who knew about Russia, and who I respected and didn’t anticipate giving in to pressure or simply saying what they were told to say.
And for ages there didn’t seem to be any. Lots of people fulminating about awful foreign wickedness but no-one at all knowledgeable or interesting. With the honourable exceptions you mention. And the UK must have people who do know the background in depth, they were not asked to write (not for weeks, anyway) as far as I could see. It all felt far more like propaganda than analysis.
Thanks, this is a very good summary of the problems with the official narratives.
One point: Feeding the ducks: If your assumption that this took place at 13:45 is based on the timestamp of (shop?)CCTV only this may be wrong. It may even have taken place after the Mills Pub before the poisoning as it is a good way of waiting for somebody and making yourself known without looking too conspicuous.
Another point: Petrov and Boshirov might just as well have been couriers to Pablo Miller. Or may have asked him for a job. Some news describe Pablo Miller as a ‘neighbour’ to Skripal. Do we know where he lives?
I also saw a mention online that Pablo was a neighbour (implying “next door”.) Which of course makes you wonder if it was him that never put anything on the door handle. Or one of his visitors.
There was also a comment a while back from a scientist who said that no one knows how this novichoc smells because to smell it is to die.
That 13:45 time for the duck feeding is the CCTV timestamp that the father of one of the boys saw. The mother thought she saw 13:15, but the father seemed to be more confident that it was 13:45.
… or maybe not.
Too many variables. Too many other possibilities to be sure of anything.
Sir,Fantastic! Thank You!!
Completely agree!
I’d say the case was politicised by Mark Urban’s Newsnight broadcast on 5th March
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n-cJu-6QFC8
with suggestions that Putin was behind matters.
And you’re surprised by that?
Thanks Rob,
I’ve only just skimmed through the subheadings as I have an appointment soon. It needs to be a long one. No need to apologise. Going by your track record, I’m sure you’ve done an excellent demolition job on the official stories. I’ll look forward to reading it later on today, and hope to be meeting you at the new place every now and then too!