177 thoughts on “It’s the Wrong Park! How the Ducks Raise Some Serious Questions in the Salisbury Poisonings”

1. The official story is so full of holes as to be preposterous; a new development – which I discuss here

   https://thenewkremlinstooge.wordpress.com/2018/07/19/when-your-story-implodes-call-me-im-an-american-weapons-expert/

   is the appearance of a government-go-to chemical weapons expert, most instrumental to the spreading of the government narrative that ‘Butcher Assad’ gassed his own people in Syria, helpfully explaining away the storm of skepticism as to why the ‘nerve agent’ which failed to kill the Skripals was still so toxic four months later that it killed an incidental target. According to the expert, Novichok was specifically engineered by the Soviets to be extra-persistent.

   This flies in the face of chemical-warfare doctrine – nerve agents were developed to attack unprotected troops in the open, and to be unobtrusively deployed so as to achieve a fatal or incapacitating exposure before their presence was noted. They are specifically engineered to be non-persistent, because the aim is to kill off the enemy troops but leave the objective – territory, airfield, strategic bridge or whatever – undamaged so that your own forces can seize it as soon as the agent has done its work and its effects are dissipated. A nerve agent which remained toxic for months would be useless; might as well just attack the target with conventional weapons and blow it to bits.

   Additionally, a source noted in the article reports that when the Skripals put their vehicle in a multi-story car park, one of them must have touched the ticket machine with their bare hand. Their hands were allegedly contaminated with a monstrous nerve agent which was daubed on the doorknob of their house, and the hand used would likely be the same one they used to touch the door handle. Yet nobody checked this machine or isolated it from the public until 8 days after the incident.

   The massive decontamination/search effort seems to have been devised to impress the public with the level of application, but in reality the potential exposure of the public to contamination is unacceptable and completely at odds with the way such an after-operation would take place if a genuine chemical agent was known to have been used.

2. This goes along the lines of what I’ve been considering lately. The Sun appear to be the main reporter of this story and they do indeed mention the pond, there is no pond near the playground but there is a widening in the river at Queen Elizabeth Gardens which could be considered a pond. Locally, the small park where the Skripals were found is not generally called a park, just The Maltings whereas Queen Elizabeth Gardens would be considered a park. Also, we know now that the time for the infection to show can be up to 4 hours so it could well be that it was QEG that the perfume was used, then when it smelled of Ammonia (as recently reported) the bottle was discarded, later to be picked up by Charlie Rowley. If 4 hours is the timeline, the Skripals could have easily walked home from QEG, got the car and made their way back to the city centre, hence how Novichok was found at the house and in the car. As with everyone, this is all speculation but being local this would make sense and I also think Yulia uknowingly brought the perfume into the country, probably linked somewhere with her fiancé (or his mother).

3. We are invited to believe the plot is of a desultory nature but that is not the conclusion I draw.

   Sadly the only conclusion that I can see through the chaff is that the British government were involved in the attack on the bench people and murder of Dawn Sturgess.

   The reason is simple, that is where the reliable evidence takes you.

   There is a paucity of reliable evidence because government Ministers have lied and the police have been deliberately evasive.

   But through the mist of discombobulation there have been nuggets of seeming truth;

   Eyewitness Freya Church said the couple she saw on the bench were 100% Definitely the same people in the cctv video (female – blonde hair, red bag), another eyewitness Olly Field referred to the female as a “blonde bird”.
   On the Sunday concerned an eyewitness (chef at Zizzis) said the Russian speaking female had reddish brown hair. CCTV at a Moscow airport caught Yulia the day before, she had reddish brown hair.

   When absorbed through the skin “the first symptoms do not occur until 20-30 minutes” – OPCW.
   Why then would the director of PHE give the advice; “3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose (before symptoms develop).”

   Astonishingly with no evidence (zero) of who was responsible for poisoning the bench couple the prime minister and her Ministers have assured us that Russia is responsible, the Home Secretery going as far as saying; “’We know back in March that was the Russians (that poisoned the pair)”
   This is clear evidence that the government employees are lying contrary to the Ministerial Code.

   Dr Stephen Davies, lead consultant at Salisbury A&E wrote a letter to the times to clarify what actually happened in Salisbury on the 4th March, his statement was never corrected or retracted.

   “Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.

   STEPHEN DAVIES, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust

   1. Peter, Those simple truths are very awkward to circumvent. The constant repition of ‘Novichok’ is simply an application of Goebbels technique, of repeating a lie until it is accepted as the truth. Even here, in these comments, several refer to Novichok as a given. It isn’t.

      With this in mind, the single most devastating hole in the official story is the letter of Dr. Davies. The one person who was probably the most knowledgeable at that time in the whole country, 10 days after the event, said that there never had been any nerve-agents.

      The best article I know of, as a single topic discussion of that letter is here:
      https://off-guardian.org/2018/03/21/what-did-the-salisbury-physician-mean-by-no-patients-have-experienced-symptoms-of-nerve-agent-poisoning/

      There are some excellent comments to that article as well.

      1. There must be a black hole in the UK…
         Dr. Steven Davies disappeared from the surface, as did Yulia, Sergei, Bailey, Aitkenhead, Miller and Steele.
         I wonder how they manage to keep all this people quiet.
         And know they are confronted with the talking heads Sam Hobson and Matt Rowley. LOL.
         Trump wants to make peace with Putin (let us see…).
         Theresa must be close to a nervous breakdown called Novi-shock.

   2. Peter, Here is another fact to add to the list.

      On 5 March the Clinical Services Journal published an article about the Salisbury incident, stating it was a case of fentanyl exposure.

      On 26 April, a Twitter user posted the article. Fortunately she included a screen shot of the relevant part together with a link to the journal itself, as it then stood:
      https://twitter.com/dgaytandzhieva/status/989616317484421125

      On the very same day, the CSJ revised the article. The current version of the article no longer refers to fentanyl (and notes the article was revised on 26 April):
      https://www.clinicalservicesjournal.com/story/25262/response-unit-called-as-salisbury-hospital-declares-major-incident

      For 7 weeks, the article said ‘fentanyl’ – even now it does not mention ‘nerve-agents’.

      1. Here is an archived copy of the entire page before it was changed:
         https://web.archive.org/web/20180426230528/https://www.clinicalservicesjournal.com/story/25262/response-unit-called-as-salisbury-hospital-declares-major-incident

      2. And just to complete the story, here is the first revised version that does not state the page had been revised. As noted above the current version has been changed for a second time to note that it has been revised.
         https://web.archive.org/web/20180428234646/https://www.clinicalservicesjournal.com/story/25262/response-unit-called-as-salisbury-hospital-declares-major-incident

4. In the interest of science I bought a Chanel Mademoiselle 7.5ml purse spray. It is actually quite chunky, like a double thick bic lighter.
   It does not float but sinks to bottom and stays upright. So it has some bouyancy but would not float on the surface.
   I guess the Avon would have had a strong current on 4 March with the melting snow. So maybe it could have bumped along the bottom.
   At least I have some early Christmas shopping done!

5. To clarify ……..

   Mechanism of Action

   A characteristic of nerve agents is that they are extremely toxic and that they have very rapid effect. The nerve agent, either as a gas, aerosol or liquid, enters the body through inhalation or through the skin. Poisoning may also occur through consumption of liquids or foods contaminated with nerve agents.

   The route for entering the body is of importance for the period required for the nerve agent to start having effect. It also influences the symptoms developed and, to some extent, the sequence of the different symptoms. Generally, the poisoning works faster when the agent is absorbed through the respiratory system than via other routes. This is because the lungs contain numerous blood vessels and the inhaled nerve agent can therefore rapidly diffuse into the blood circulation and thus reach the target organs. Among these organs, the respiratory system is one of the most important. If a person is exposed to a high concentration of nerve agent, e.g., 200 mg sarin/m3 (see table) death may occur within a couple of minutes.

   Poisoning takes longer when the nerve agent enters the body through the skin. Nerve agents are more or less fat-soluble and can penetrate the outer layers of the skin. However, it takes some time before the poison reaches the deeper blood vessels. Consequently, the first symptoms do not occur until 20-30 minutes after the initial exposure but subsequently the poisoning process may be rapid if the total dose of nerve agent is high. The toxic effect of nerve agents depends on them becoming bound to an enzyme, acetylcholinesterase, and thereby inhibit this vital enzyme’s normal biological activity in the cholinergic nervous system.

   https://www.opcw.org/about-chemical-weapons/types-of-chemical-agent/nerve-agents/

6. If the Novichok was “atomised”, even onto the skin, it would certainly have been inhaled as an aerosol.

   That is what perfume sprays are designed to do.

   We were told that inhalation of a Military Grade Nerve Agent is much more rapid at taking effect. But then again we were told that this stuff kills in minutes then we were told it takes a minimum of 3 hours for the symptoms to appear.

   Could it be someone doesn’t know what they are talking about or ……… lying perhaps?

   1. Also you would test a perfume before applying it, as far as I know Nerve Agents / gasses have no odour. Why apply a perfume that has no smell.

      But if it was in a non-spray bottle the same applies, you would take a sniff before putting it on.

   2. I’ve been saying for some time now that there is no way whatever has been used on the 5 victims is military grade Novichok. If it was they and lots of other Salisbury inhabitants would be dead and seriously ill. Plus many more with severe sickness from touching contaminated surfaces. If Dawn Sturgess found a scent bottle and sprayed pure Novichok on her wrist to smell it, she’d be dead inside minutes, not only getting sick hours later and dying days later. So whatever it is, its NOT military grade Novichok.
      My guess is its a novichok type agent, used by the Russian secret sevices to either incapacitate victims or to assassinate them but make it look like a drugs overdose, which is what all the medical responders immediately concluded initially. Without a Porton Down just down the road to test for anything else, and a less politically sensitive victim, it would be chalked up to a batch of bad drugs and no-one is any the wiser.
      The question more is, were the Skripals attacked with this agent, or did they administer it to themselves in a suicide pact? If the former, then much of the official story doesn’t make sense, the latter fits the known facts better, other than the question of how they came by the chemical in the first place.

7. https://www.boots.ie/chanel-no5-parfum-purse-spray-7-5ml-10049627
   Something like a 7.5 ml Chanel No. 5 refillable spray.
   That would attract a magpie like Dawn. And someone said before you would spray it on one hand to test.
   If it ever did contain novichok the carrier of it was presumably a woman.
   So Yulia or Market Walk woman administered at the bench then either thrown in river or disposed of elsewhere.
   Or a lure put down by SIS or FSB.

8. Probably a 5-10ml travel perfume sprayer :

   Quote : The nerve agent that poisoned two people in Amesbury was contained in a perfume bottle, the brother of one of the victims has said.
   Matthew Rowley said his brother Charlie, who is seriously ill in hospital, told him he had picked up the perfume bottle.
   The Metropolitan Police, which is leading the investigation, refused to confirm the claim.
   Previously the force has said only that it was found in a “small bottle”.
   BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said the information about the bottle could be a significant clue for investigators trying to isolate the source of the nerve agent and identify who administered it.
   “Where did it come from, where was it bought, is it something that is very rare, is it something that’s unusual, is it something that was bought in a particular shop at a particular time?” he said.
   “That could be absolutely vital for the investigation to find out who was responsible for the attack on the Skripals and also for the latest attack.”
   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44839805

   Something like this :
   https://www.amazon.com/Clear-Refillable-Travel-Perfume-Bottle/dp/B00K01A4X2

   1. Well, that removes the last obstacle for Rowley being worried to tell the paramedics, who came at 10:15am, about what he and Sturgess had been doing. There is no reason at all why he could not tell them that they had found a perfume bottle, that Sturgess had tried it and here it is! So, what did the paramedics ask and what were they told and why did Rowley not go to hospital on Saturday morning for tests?

9. Most RED herrings have been allowed to run to assist with the countermeasures of Chaff, Distraction, Misinformation and Lies but the Sinister, Aggressive man in the mask was closed down early.

   Also this has the pair in the Mill at 3:00, plants kill, nerve agent can take several hours to work.

   1. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5486163/Fears-Russian-spy-poisoned-bouquet-flowers.html#comments

10. Is that a police radio?

    https://www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/2018/07/09/timeline-of-events-leading-up-to-and-including-the-amesbury-poisonings/

    https://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/45572000/jpg/_45572024_airwaves_poster.jpg

    1. Peter, That is a stock image. Exactly the same image has been used dozens of times. You will find it here, used in 2009:
       http://grcade.co.uk/t:special-constables-11133

       1. Paul

          The photo I am referring to is in the Telegraph piece

          I added the other to assist in ID

          The question I didn’t ask was why

          was it in the flat?

          1. Well it isn’t a phone so police radio sounds reasonable. Why it has been bagged is an interesting question but the caption says ‘Rollestone Street, Salisbury’ – presumably somewhere Rowley/Sturgess visited.

             I might as well put this here too. Article from DM talking about a known drugs stash in QEG:
             http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5930465/Amesbury-Novichok-Dawn-Sturgess-Charlie-Rowley-got-nerve-agent-Salibsury-park-drug-den.html
             Apart from having a beer in the sun, might Rowley have gone there to collect something?

             1. Dawn’s home was in John Baker House, Rollestone St.

                But note what our Home Secretary says in the link you gave;

                ‘We know back in March that was the Russians.”

                That is a lie.

                The Home Secretary is a liar!

11. There is another scenario.
    Russia assessed that the Skripals suicide pact was a plausible story.
    They have access to Sergei’s forensics from his jail time.
    They then put his DNA and fingerprints on the novichok “bottle”, maybe several bottles, and left them around Salisbury where a drunk might pick them up.
    The unfortunate Dawn did find one. That bottle is found and now police and security services either have to lie and say Sergei’s forensics not on it or say they are and checkmate to Russia.
    drunk might pick them up.

12. This Charlie & Dawn overlay posted on imgur of the walking couple video seems quite convincing – via link >>>

    https://imgur.com/fWAovRq

    .

13. And they are wondering why the public is not buying this story. I don’t know if anyone here has felt the effects of CS gas but its very rapid, instantaneous I would say. That’s what it is designed to do.

    I thought Military Grade Nerve Agents had a similar effectiveness but far more deadly, it seems I am wrong or the government is not telling the truth.

    If it hadn’t been for two things I might have considered that the Salisbury Novichok came from a faulty batch (perhaps the wrong proportions of the precursors of the mixing technique) but no!

    “The OPCW, the international chemical weapons watchdog, said its team “notes that the toxic chemical was of high purity. The latter is concluded from the almost complete absence of impurities.”

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/04/12/europe/opcw-report-skripal-poisoning-uk-intl/index.html

    And

    The Director of Public Health England (PHE) Paul Cosford saying that Novichok actually does take a minimum of 3 hours to take effect after contact with a large dose

    “If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.”

    https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2630419/amesbury-incident-novichok-could-be-active-for-50-years/

    1. Maybe that’s the nub of it.

       They don’t care whether the public accept this or not. It doesn’t matter to them because there is nothing the public can do about it except vote Labour in next time but remember what Blair did when he got in.

       As long as we pay their wages and pensions, accept that our internet activity, emails and telephone calls are recorded. That we are tracked by our mobile phones, car reg recognition cameras, cctv and use of credit and bank cards we should be ok. But sadly no!

       We have to accept that we are powerless, they are big we are small they make the rules, we follow them, the law applies to us and not them.

       That is what is being played out in Salisbury and the Salisbury people seem to have gone along with it.

    2. Peter, this is why TPTB don’t like telling us anything – whenever they give us a new ‘fact’, it is met with howls of ridicule.

       When I read the Spire FM report, it felt like I was reading a script! The small bottle part has already fallen into place, next will come the timeline which will match Professor Cosford’s words…

       Then will come the confirmation that it was the same batch that poisoned the Skripals… which will reveal another astonishing property of Novihoax. When you need Novihoax as a gel, it’s a gel; if you need it as a liquid, well there it is, all from the same bottle, whatever you need!

       Boris is in this scandal up to his neck. He could toast May with what he knows but would burn himself in the process. As things stand, however, the parliamentary Conservative party is filled with pro-EU, pinko-liberal, non-Tories and May would win a confidence vote (which is why they have held off on calling one).

       Boris resigned not as a matter of principle but because it was in his personal interests to do so. There are many ways he can use the public scepticism of the Skripal affair to oust May whilst keeping his own nose relatively clean…

    3. The PHE statement is not how scientists should explain matters.
       At best he is saying that the world’s most dangerous nerve agent takes a minimum of three hours to work.
       Why?
       Because it took longer than that to affect an old man in March.

14. If the FSB wanted to bring novichok into UK, it would come in a diplomatic bag.
    If a daughter flying to Heathrow wanted to bring it in for her Russian father to fake attack/revenge suicide she’d put it in a Moskovskaya miniature bottle, a present for Papa.
    So if Sergei chucked it in Avon during “duck feeding” and 4 months in water and mud have taken the Skripals prints and DNA off it – we could be looking at war on the basis of an angry old man and two curious down-and-outs.

    1. I think you’re spot on with the idea that it was Skripal who sprayed the stuff around, its the theory that fits the facts better than anything else, I just don’t think it was pure Novichok. I think Skripal had access via his former career to some sort of disabling chemical of a nerve agent type, or maybe a very weak mix of it that can kill but also can just disable, and he used that. When Porton Down got samples they tested them and the best guess was ‘novichok type’. The politicians then took that and ran with it and shot their mouths off about Russians etc, and suddenly it was an international incident. I then think they egged the pudding by getting Porton Down to send samples contaminated with real Novichok to the OPCW (they ‘knew ‘ it was nerve agent so why worry about a bit of fraud) hence why its come out as military grade highly pure stuff.

       This of course means they have a scandal to hide – if it comes out that it wasn’t the Russians, and the UK government has conspired to frame them for the actions of a deranged agent of theirs, then all hell breaks loose.

15. DID SERGEI SKRIPAL MURDER DAWN STURGESS?

    The Wiltshire police have finally found the source of the novichok poisonings, a bottle in Charlie Rowley’s apartment. It is assumed the Amesbury couple found the bottle in Queen Elizabeth Gardens in #Salisbury the day before they were poisoned. Queen Elizabeth Gardens is also the place where the Skripals were seen feeding ducks and where they spoke with 12 year old Aiden Cooper.

    It seems likely that the novichok bottle was left in the garden by Sergei Skripal. Feeding ducks is part of tradecraft, when you want to dispose of evidence but do not want to be seen throwing away anything.

    Why? Sergei Skripal may have been trying to kill himself. Or trying to frame Putin and Russia for his murder. Or both. He would spray novichok everywhere on his path that day, starting from his doorknob and ending at the restaurant table at Zizzi’s. OPCW Director General Ahmet Üzümcü told The New York Times that there was 100 grams of novichok spread around Salisbury. Last, before throwing away the container, Sergei Skripal would apply the poison on himself and his daughter.

    1. You need to see this about the “100 grams”.
       https://www.rt.com/news/425886-opcw-novichok-grams-correction/

16. Quote : On Wednesday, 11 July, a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley’s house in Amesbury.
    Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, Head of UK Counter Terrorism Policing, said:
    „I also appreciate there is a lot of interest in this; however, we are not in a position to disclose any further details regarding the bottle at this stage.“
    http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-source-of-nerve-agent-contamination-identified-314322

    On the one hand they do not want to reveal any details, on the other hand they speak of a small bottle. This already contains two important information : „small“ and „bottle“.
    Why they did´nt use the very neutral term “container” ?

    Martin Evans, TELEGRAPH´s Crime Correspondent, even knows more then all the others :
    Counter terrorism investigators recovered a small GLASS bottle from the home of victim, Charlie Rowley, which has tested positive for the deadly chemical.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/13/police-find-source-novichok-poisoning-victims-house/

    My five cents are with Rob – it will be a very unique small glass bottle that only Russia is able to produce. Russian perfume „Tet-a-Tet“ or „Putin No.5“ or the already mentioned nail varnish „Novijoke“.

17. I have copied the following timeline from here:
    https://www.somersetlive.co.uk/news/local-news/novichok-poisoning-victim-dawn-sturgess-1768444

    1. 10.15am – Saturday, June 30
    An ambulance was called to the address, where Ms Sturgess had been taken ill. She was taken to hospital.
    2. 12pm – Saturday, June 30
    Mr Rowley visited Boots on Stonehenge Walk in Amesbury, returning to his house around half an hour later.
    3. 1.45pm – Saturday, June 30
    Next, Mr Rowley went to the Amesbury Baptist Centre on Butterfield Drive.
    4. 3pm – Saturday, June 30
    He returned to his home on Muggleton Road.
    5. 6.20pm – Saturday, June 30
    Mr Rowley was also taken ill. An ambulance was called and he was taken to hospital.

    This is what Professor Paul Cosgrove, Medical Director, Public Health England told a meeting in Salisbury, on 10 July, about Novichok:
    “If you become ill with this stuff from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.”

    So, Dawn Sturgess must have come into contact with Novichock a minimum of 3 hours before she fell ill – that would be around 7:00am; possibly 6 hours earlier – 4:00am. Since it did actually kill her, I am assuming that she did not receive a very small dose and won’t bother with the possibility that she took it earlier than 4:00am.

    Their friend, Sam Hobson said he visited Rowley on Saturday morning and Sturgess had spent the night there. “I saw lots of ambulances and Dawn got taken out on a stretcher. She needed to be helped with her breathing.”

    Mr Rowley spent the day with his friend and seems to have been fine until the evening; he had a ‘hog roast’ at the Baptist Centre. So when did he come into contact with Novichok? Well I would guess it is unlikely that he would have used the Novichok while Sam was around, otherwise Sam would have been able to tell that story. So it must have been before 10:30am. Based on Professor Cosgove’s estimates it cannot have been earlier than 6:30am – as that would push it beyond 12 hours.

    Putting this together, the only scenario that fits the ‘facts’ as we know them, is that Rowley and Sturgess took the Novichok between 6:30am and 7:00am. Rowley had a small dose and Sturgess had a larger dose.

    Well, that all fits nicely but there are two very significant problems with this scenario.

    1) Is it credible that having taken an ‘unknown substance’, Rowley didn’t alert the ambulance crew to this fact and give them the bottle remnant so they could check what they had taken? Instead he watched, in tears, as his girlfriend was carried out. Did it not occur to him that he had taken the same substance hours earlier and that he might be at risk? I know that he is a junkie but really?

    2) Rowley was used to drugs. Was he not in the least bit suspicious that, whatever it was they had taken, was not having its usual effect? He spent the day with his friend and didn’t tell his friend that he and Sturgess had found something and had tried it but it had put Dawn in a coma and had had no effect on him?

    Has anyone got a more plausible scenario?

    1. Thanks Paul.

       No, is the simple answer. There is no plausible scenario, because the level of disinformation the authorities are giving us in this case is so mind-boggling, that there is simply no possible scenario we could come up with to explain it all. It’s like trying to square the circle, whilst pinning jelly to the wall, at the same time as trying to pass a camel through the eye of a needle.

       But I am interested in what Professor Cosgrove says: “If you become ill with this stuff from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.”

       How does he know that? Have they performed exhaustive tests at Porton Down to establish how A-234 works, what it does, and how fast it acts? Even though all the scientific literature before March this year suggests that it is a fast acting nerve agent, 5-8 times more toxic than VX.

       This isn’t science – he’s simply parroting what happened to the Skripals, plus Bailey, Sturgess and Rowley and applying circular reasoning to make us believe that this is what A-234 does to people. But then he’s a Professor and that means he can get away with it.

       1. So if you get contact poisoning with a Military Grade Nerve Agent, specifically Novichok A-234 then you can expect to wait at least 3 hours before you feel any symptoms?

          My Voltarol works in a few minutes.

          It will be interesting to see who does the Post Mortem exam on Tuesday, I have an awful feeling that it will be Richard Shepherd.

          And who will verify the Toxicology Results? An amusing detail (to older readers – not the younger generations) is that Flanagan and Allen helped out with the Toxicology in the Dr David Kelly case, you can’t make this stuff up.

       2. Rob, Thanks for the reply – I agree.

          It remains my view that the original plan fell apart on Monday morning, 5 March, when DS Bailey drove himself to hospital and started a media circus. Nearly everything since then has been lies.

          At face value, what we are told sounds reasonable but as you, Craig Murray and ‘b’ keep demonstrating, the stories have no depth and do nor bear scrutiny. They are credible to a point but beyond that point, maintaining the narrative requires the reader to believe that people have acted in very peculiar ways.

          I think the duck feeding story falls apart because it requires us to believe that 3 boys completely failed to notice that the people they had met in the park were the Skripals. Instead I think it was invented to vilify Putin as a child poisoner.

          The Rowley story falls apart because it requires us to believe that from 10:30am to 6:00pm he and his friend, were completely oblivious to the risk he faced – for that matter what about the risk Sam Hobson faced? He had spent the day with Rowley and had been in the house but was happily giving interviews…

          Keep up the good work.

    2. The police have now kindly confirmed that the bottle of Novichok was found at Rowley’s house which means that must be where they used it – incidental contact is now impossible.

       I would simply not believe that the paramedics that attended Sturgess in the morning did not ask Rowley if she had taken anything – and if he had too. He should have gone to hospital at the same time! What were they all thinking?

       As usual, ‘b’ at Moon of Alabama had an excellent piece describing the day:
       http://www.moonofalabama.org/2018/07/british-government-peddles-warmed-over-skripal-muck.html

18. I think it is time to crack this nut before it gets any sillier.

    1) Yulia’s recent extremely angry rant directed at cousin Victoria. Victoria has been helping keep this alive in Russia and creating as much fuss as she can. Which may not be good news for Yulia or Sergei (if he is still alive). The rant was based in fear and not frustration at Victoria’s meddling. Yulia desperately wants her to shut up.

    2) Intelligence existed from the beginning that something could be found in a park or children’s play area but the precise park was not known.

    3)Sergei was up to something on the morning of the 4th, he and Yulia disabled their mobile phones from transmitting their location, the police asked for help in locating them between 9:15am and 1:00pm (when the signal presumably returned).
    Every single person with a mobile phone on that day in Salisbury has had their mobile phone signals traced and their movements tracked.

    4) Sergei is in big trouble with the Brits hence his continued detention with no contact (or perhaps he’s dead) and he’s in big trouble with Russia hence Yulia’s terrified outburst towards Victoria.

    It looks like Sergei was playing two ends and he was in the middle. Possibly he had feared for his life from Moscow hit men and a fake death was planned to protect him but he needed insurance and a carrot for British assistance.

    Sergei didn’t trust the Brits or the Russians

    The Brits did not trust Sergei

    The Russians did not trust Sergei

    The disappearing trick went badly wrong. But the stupid, stupid British government thought it still a good idea to make political capital against Putin. That is the most stupid part of all this and it will get worse for them, Putin will not let them off the hook. Ever.

19. This from the Guardian on the finding of the bottle:

    “In a statement, police said: ‘On Wednesday 11 July, a small bottle was recovered during searches of Charlie Rowley’s house in Amesbury. It was taken to the Defence, Science and Technology Laboratory at Porton Down, Wiltshire, for tests’”.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/13/novichok-that-killed-woman-came-from-bottle-police-believe

    Anyone else find it a bit odd that this bottle was only found on 11th July? A week-and-a-half since the house was cordoned off?

    I’m expecting any moment now word from the Met Police that it’s a unique type of bottle, in the shape of a Matryoshka doll, with a hammer and sickle on it.

    1. 11 July was the day after Charlie regained consciousness on 10 July.
       http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16345450.nerve-agent-victim-charlie-rowley-now-conscious-and-stable/
       https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/10/nerve-agent-poisoning-inquiry-spreads-to-swindon-car-seized-dawn-sturgess

       The Metropolitan Police’s head of counter-terror Neil Basu had said on 10 July:
       “I am hoping Charlie recovers and when he recovers he will be able to tell us and perhaps shed some light on it which will narrow our search dramatically.”
       “There is a possibility they found it on 5 March and only opened it in the past 10 days.”
       https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2630419/amesbury-incident-novichok-could-be-active-for-50-years/

       So Basu gave a specific date for Charlie and Dawn finding the container. The obvious explanation is that the latest part of the story is this: Soon after Charlie woke up on 10 June, he told the police about finding the bottle on 5 March (the day after the Skripal poisoning) and about where he had hidden it in his house.

       1. Your link to Spire FM is astonishing!

          Quote – Speaking in regards to how long it would take before the affects of the nerve agent would come into effect on a person, Public Health England Medical Director Paul Cosford said:

          “If you become ill with this stuff (Novichok) from actually coming into contact with a significant amount of it then its within 6-12 hours, maximum (that symptoms would occur) – 3 hours is the minimum but you have to be in touch with a large dose.” – End quote

          I thought Novichok was many times more lethal than VX.

          But that is not all, the article has a further link to advice from Public Health England:
          https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2630190/updated-safety-advice-following-amesbury-incident/

          The advice was issued on 10 July and contains the following:

          Quote – Toxicologist Professor Alistair Hay says tiny doses can be lethal, and gives an idea of what the container may look like.

          “A few mililitres would be sufficient to probably kill a good number of people and you could store that in a small ampoule, or it might be in a small container like for nail varnish.” – End quote

          Which seems to match the description of the ‘small bottle’ (or ‘ampule’ as the Daily Mail describes it) now said to have been found.

          No doubt it will come to pass that Rowley did find a small bottle on 5 March and despite him being a drug addict, he didn’t touch it for months… furthermore, it will be demonstrated beyond doubt that Dr, Stephen Davies didn’t know what he was talking about when, more than a week after the event, he said no nerve-agents had been involved.

          What a heap of xxxx!!

    2. Is it a bit odd the bottle was only found on 11th July? That was my initial reaction. The police have had access to Rowley’s flat since 30th June so it did seem rather a long time. But I’ve thought about it further – and now I’m not so sure it is such a long time. Here are the factors I considered:

       Although Rowley was taken ill on Saturday, 30th June, the police may not have started a thorough forensics search until later in the week. The police only declared it a “major incident” in the early hours of July 4th. Say the forensics people arrive Wednesday afternoon or Thursday latest. There would be an initial assessment and set-up time. The Met statement says the bottle was found Wednesday 11th. That would give them say 6/7 days if they worked all through the weekend, or 4/5 days if they didn’t.

       Previous reports about the operation have described the slow progress because those searching inside could only work 15 minutes at a time due to the heat building up inside the Hazmat suits. We are having some glorious weather currently.

       We don’t know the condition inside the flat but it could’ve been an absolute tip inside with discarded bottles, cans, snack pots, drug paraphernalia all around the floor, by the bed, in the kitchen, etc. I’m not saying it was – just a possibility.

       The forensics people searching may have been instructed to pick-up everything – every single item whether it’s rubbish, clothing, or newspapers – bag it individually, and label it, to be sent off for analysis.

       The forensics people could work to a room-by-room system.

       If Rowley believed the bottle contained drugs it may have been stashed somewhere in the flat or hidden inside something else, behind a skirting board, tucked away in the loft somewhere, etc. Not easy in Hazmat suits.

       So, on reflection, I don’t think the time involved is excessive.

    3. They searched Rowley’s home on July 5th – and didn’t find this bottle then? …………………. “Police fear missing Novichok ‘syringe’ that left couple fighting for life could have been ‘carried off by a child’ as they admit they have no idea where it is – as authorities FINALLY evacuate homes
       Dawn Sturgess, 44, and Charlie Rowley, 45, fighting for their lives after exposure to Novichok nerve agent
       Couple, understood to be drug users, are in critical condition in hospital after being exposed on weekend
       Family fear Dawn is on the ‘brink of death’ and fear ‘she’s going to die’ after they both fell ill on Saturday
       Experts fear that they may have handled or used a syringe or needle that assassins used to carry the poison
       One friend said: ‘It was definitely an accident. I think they found a package and it looked like drugs’
       Former neighbour claims Dawn would pick up discarded cigarette butts and could have ‘smoked the poison’
       Counter-terrorism police sent samples to MoD’s Porton Down laboratory and confirmed it was Novichok
       Couple found seven miles from where Sergei Skripal and daughter Yulai poisoned with Novichok in March
       Police have locked down several sites new victims visited including a Salisbury park never decontaminated
       By JAKE WALLIS SIMONS, ASSOCIATE GLOBAL EDITOR, IN WILTSHIRE and MARTIN ROBINSON, UK CHIEF REPORTER and NIC WHITE and SEBASTIAN MURPHY-BATES FOR MAILONLINE and CHRIS GREENWOOD and EMINE SIMNAZ and TOM PAYNE FOR THE DAILY MAIL

       PUBLISHED: 18:12 EDT, 4 July 2018 | UPDATED: 16:34 EDT, 5 July 2018 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5919211/Amesbury-couple-exposed-Novichok-poison-fight-lives.html

20. Here is the 17.09hrs update from the Met confirming they’ve found a bottle of Novichok in Rowley’s house.

    They also advise that for Sturgess the post-mortem is Tuesday, 17 July and an inquest opens on Thursday, 19 July.

    http://news.met.police.uk/news/update-source-of-nerve-agent-contamination-identified-314322

21. The ducks were lining up, but perhaps they have found the real stash and this is just fake stuff, as it is the ducks are flapping about again but I am quite relieved.

    The small bottle was not the problem!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5951569/Police-source-Novichok-small-bottle-poisoning-victim-Charlie-Rowleys-house.html

    1. The little bottle doesn’t contain Novichok but its contents are probably the same poison that poisoned the Skripals, Bailey Rowley and Sturgess. However they were not poisoned by that bottle. That poison (the same as in the bottle) came from elsewhere,

       The bottle was conveniently found after how long?

       Its quite complicated but will all make sense.

       1. Peter, you say : “The little bottle doesn’t contain Novichok but its contents are probably the same poison (…)”
          If you think that Porton Down lies about the content of the bottle, why couldn’t we think that there is no poison at all ?

          1. It may well be inert until the IPCW say they are going to to pay another visit but my guess is that Sergei planted some insurance in a park. I’m hoping that that has now been found. The little bottle in the flat may as well have a military grade decapitant traces on it for authenticity.

             1. The OPCW has already been asked to come and is arriving next week. This has the plot of a poorly scripted film, you know what’s coming next.

                1. Yep, the bottle will be scrubbed and tainted with Novichok

                   1. Now bear in mind the bottle will contain the mixed nerve agent so the OPCW might say ; do you know where the precursors are yet?

                      1. Of course they know where the precursers are! Portin Down! Where else?

                         What I want to hear is how you get a ‘gel’ (sufficiently viscous that it does not just drip off a door handle) into or out of a small container…

22. My reconstruction of Dawn´s and Charlie´s movements on June 29 :

    10:06am – „Best 1 Local“, Rollestone Street corner Winchester Street only a few meters from John Baker House. CCTV shows Charlie buying four cans strong lager bear. He seems to be already drunken.
    ???am – „Best 1 Local“, Rollestone Street corner Winchester Street. CCTV shows Dawn buying lager bear and wine.
    12:20pm – Dawn Sturgess and Charlie Rowley are together at John Baker House – a supported housing scheme in Salisbury – about half an mile from the Zizzi restaurant where the Skripals dined before becoming ill.
    They then leave and visit a number of shops in Salisbury before going to Queen Elizabeth Gardens.
    14:08pm – 14:12pm – „Charlie´s Store“, 18 Catherina street, Salisbury. Dawn Sturgess is captured on CCTV buying alcohol.
    – „Barnardo’s charity shop“, 31 Catherina street, Salisbury.
    They walk through the Old George Mall and visit the following shops :
    – „EE“, 14 Old George Mall, Salisbury. It´s a mobile & broadband service provider.
    – „Poundland“, 42-44 High Street, Salisbury. Discount retail chain selling groceries, toiletries, cleaning products and more, all for £1.
    All Shops NOT cordoned off !!!
    Then they walk the Crane Street and enter the Queen Elizabeth Gardens.
    4.20pm – They return to John Baker House. Nobody mentioned the way they took back to John Baker House !!!
    10.30pm – They catch a bus to Amesbury. Together with Dawn and Charlie were their friends Craig Pattenden and Sam Hobson. They didn´t show symptoms.
    The bus was tested, but no Novichok found.
    Police say they believe the couple then spent the night at Muggleton Road, Amesbury.

    1. Liane what is the evidence for the visit to QEGs? And importantly do you know how long did they stay there?

       I only ask because recent revelation’s are moving me to think that a stash of toxins including Novichok could actually be hidden in a park in the Salisbury area. A stash that Sergei was aware of and was using in negotiations.

       1. Peter, when you look at the timeline, Dawn and Charlie were in QEG from about 3:00pm until 4:20pm. That´s the official line.
          But I think they could have been there much longer, jugdging by the amount of alcohol they bought before.

          Here some sources :
          So far our understanding is that on Friday, 29 June, at around 12:20pm, they were both together at John Baker House in Salisbury.
          They then left and visited Salisbury before going to the Queen Elizabeth Gardens that afternoon.
          They both returned to John Baker House at around 4:20pm before catching a bus to Amesbury just after 10pm that night.
          http://news.met.police.uk/news/further-statement-on-investigation-into-incident-in-amesbury-and-salisbury-313688

          Statement from Assistant Commissioner Neil Basu, National Lead for Counter Terrorism Policing in the UK:
          “Of the various sites that have been cordoned off, our focus – at this time – is on Dawn’s address within John Baker House in Salisbury, Charlie’s address in Muggleton Road, Amesbury and an area in the Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury. We believe that Dawn and Charlie handled some kind of container which the nerve agent was in, and we’re focusing our efforts on finding this container.“
          http://news.met.police.uk/news/statement-from-assistant-commissioner-neil-basu-national-lead-for-counter-terrorism-policing-in-the-uk-313952

          Police believe Ms Sturgess and Mr Rowley were exposed to the nerve agent in Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury while drinking.
          Friends Craig Pattenden, 38, and Sam Hobson, 29, who were with them when they got the bus from Salisbury to Amesbury on that evening, said Ms Sturgess was wearing a new pair of sunglasses she ‘found in the park’.
          Mr Hobson told the Sun: ‘She [Ms Sturgess] found some sunglasses on Friday and started wearing them. On the bus back she was saying to me and Craig, ‘Do you like my new sunglasses? I found them’. I think it was in the park.’
          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5936919/Novichok-poisoning-probe-spreads-Swindon-police-seize-car.html

          Neil Basu also said for the first time that a “particular” area of Queen Elizabeth Gardens in Salisbury, rather than the whole park, was a focus. He said it would be several more weeks, if not months, before the investigation was over.
          https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/10/nerve-agent-poisoning-inquiry-spreads-to-swindon-car-seized-dawn-sturgess

23. @ Patrick Mahony @Peter Beswick

    Patrick, I agree with you that there is nothing suspicious about the stop at Minety – as Peter has noted elsewhere, however, that stop is not listed in the incident log (at least the online version). https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/incidents/ – go to page 3.

    Peter, You mentioned in an earlier thread that you had done some work previously on the tracking. Have you noticed the rather odd routing around Derry Hill? Between 16:39:03 and 16:40:33, there is a zig-zag with changing speed and altitude. The 16:30:40 data point appears to be out of sequence and shows the helicopter to the north of the previous point. I don’t know enough about how these systems work to understand that. Do you know if the data is ‘guaranteed’ accurate, or is that likely to be just an anomaly in the data?

    1. Sorry I am no expert on the tracking thing I know there are several systems that can be used and the two trackers I have looked at use a combination of onboard transponder signals (which can be turned off, and they also need a local receiver to hear them) plus various radar capture signals.

       The trackers use a combination of the data available and give specific points where the signal pings are detected (which I believe are fairly accurate) then the computer program joins the pings / dots and creates a path. Where there is an absence of data / pings the program appears to interpolate the last known track to the next one with no certainty that that was the path actually taken but then the timing of the pings give an indication of accuracy for the “estimated” track

    2. I have a screenshot of the air ambulance log. I won’t paste into this, but basically it states 16:16pm Patient Land Assist to Salisbury Hospital. ( Not with the Helicopter Icon in the log and described as Land Assisted.

       So per the current publish Wiltshire Air Ambulance Log, their helicopter was NOT deployed to take Yulia to Salisbury Hospital on that Sunday afternoon?

       Patient fitting, land assisted to hospital. 04/03/2018 Salisbury, Wiltshire Salisbury District Hospital

       1. The log refers to a single patient and not two and the helicopter did eventually, via a sight seeing trip, go to the hospital and land.

          1. I agree, but why would the Yulia journey not be in the log?
             Maybe more to the point, why was secondary transport needed for the daughter?

             Concerned ambulance person loads Col Skripal into the road ambulance to start the 2 mile journey to the hospital. He/she is then instructed to leave the “equally sick lady” to an incoming air ambulance, which eventually is going to make the same 2 mile journey. As I have commented before, that would make interesting reading of the dispatch log.

             “No, leave one there, take the old guy, there is an helicopter on the way for the other one…”
             Maybe the NHS cuts are not as significant as I thought.

          2. Peter, I missed this comment earlier! Which ‘log’ are you referring to? The only log I have seen is the one online which indicates the helicopter was not used to ferry anyone.

             1. I earlier refereed to two different logs in two different comments (I think)

                1) the one saying patient fitting (call 1619) this is a singular reference to one patient

                The other was absence of a log for the Minety visit

       2. People were asking if the helicopter had been decontaminated, so Wiltshire air ambulance confirmed it was not used to transport the Skripals:
          https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2527336/air-ambulance-not-used-to-take-skripal-pair-to-hospital/

          BUT as the transponder was off, we don’t know exactly where it did go. As Peter says, it did at some point visit Salisbury District hospital but that was at 17:51 after it had restarted transmitting around Bourne retail park. There is not a single data transmission point from the west side of the river – which is where all the events we are looking at took place.

    3. @paul @Peter Beswick
       Hey Trowbridge police just put on Facebook a car has been taken from air ambulance base (new one) Semington.
       After Keith Mills car taken from Swindon looks like focus is going to air ambulance and its emergency response vehicle.
       Is ERV and paramedic the common denominator?

       1. Police have collected a car from the Air Ambulance base in Semington as well as at an address in Monkton Park in Chippenham.
          https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2632612/cars-seized-as-part-of-amesbury-incident/

          1. That is a police station in Chippenham. It is not near Salisbury but is close to Minety.
             Speculation but could police car have been first responder in Minety that called in air ambulance.
             Air ambulance vehicle seized presumably rapid response vehicle.

             1. Peter, I have absolutely no idea what is going on! For what it is worth, I am still of the opinion that Dr Davies was telling the truth in his letter to The Times and there were no nerve-agents – I think it was probably fentanyl (like the early local press reports said). I just don’t see any reason why he would have lied – he was head of the relevant department and his letter was more than a week after the event. If anyone knew, HE knew.. but we haven’t heard from him since.

                It seems that somebody is hell bent on creating as many new diversions as possible (Amesbury, Keith Mills in Swindon, now Semington and Chippenham), to mix up and confuse the story. Are they trying to create fear; is it part of a botched cover-up; is there some angle in expanding the geography – who knows!

                The odd thing is that they WANT us to know about all these new incidents but are hiding everything about Salisbury. There will be a reason for that!

             2. My apologies! The reply is to Patrick not Peter. Mea culpa!

24. Thinking and acting like a police officer who actually wants to clear up this case.

    It is important that we establish a time line which covers the Skripal movements from their return from Heathrow on Saturday March 3rd until their collapse on Sunday March 4th around 4pm.

    Information we have released to the public is:
    The Skripal home door knob was smeared with the deadly nerve agent Novichok.
    Sgt. Bailey also received exposure to Novichok at the Skripal home

    13:40: Sergei and Yulia arrived at the Sainsbury’s upper level car park in The Maltings. The pair go to The Mill pub.
    Approximately 14.20: They eat at Zizzi restaurant on Castle Street
    15:35: They leave the restaurant
    16:15: Emergency services are called by a member of the public to the bench where Sergei and Yulia are slumped on a bench.

    The above is really a summary of all the information we have been told. Although, yes, we have been told that Putin and the Russian government were behind the attack.

    Actions that have been taken.
    A table at Zizzi’s restaurant was so heavily contaminated by the nerve agent that it had to be destroyed.
    By identifying the door knob as the application site, that allowed us police officers to not interview the helpful neighbour and his 4×4 vehicle that brought Skripal and his daughter back from Heathrow. Because we knew the nerve agent was applied to the door knob, we did not need to question the neighbour or examine the car.
    We have deliberately not removed the door and the door knob in order to trap returning agents who may wish to cause us further harm. However it is true that with Rowley and Sturgess becoming ill, this tactic has not yet paid off.

    On the basis of the above, we have not realised a more detailed timeline regarding the events in the pub or Zizzi’s restaurant.
    For example, did Skripal pay cash in the pub or restaurant and have these “contaminated” notes been identified and seized etc.?
    Knowing this information might alert the public to a glimmer of fact, so it is understandable that these details which may be of benefit to Putin and his regime are not revealed.
    Also, although the Russian bad agents are no doubt at home watching the football, it is in the best interest of clarity and getting to the facts that no restaurant or pub witnesses have commented on any of the Sunday events since the early days post attack.
    It is obvious that the way to shed light on the investigation is to not allow anyone to speak.
    This is just good policing that has always stood the Met in good stead.

    It has been reported that Col Skripal demanded his restaurant bill quite vociferously and left Zizzi’s in an agitated state.

    Our investigations have determined that this is because the daylight in early March was fading and he had an urgent appointment to feed ducks at the pond.
    This pond may be in Queen Elizabeth Gardens, or it may be nearer the park bench where the Skripals were found unconscious. The ducks are helping us with our inquiries and please remember this is a live and complex investigation.
    We do not need to threaten the ducks, who are so far refusing to speak.
    However, we did point out what fate befell the Skripal guinea pigs and cat.

    In summary, this is a live, complex and ongoing investigation. We cannot tell you what happened in early March as it is believed that if we revealed this in mid July, then the Russian state has access to at least one time machine, and it is important that 4 months later we protect the integrity of the scene.

25. It may help to list the holes in chronological order but that is not possible with reasonable confidence of accuracy because the time line is deliberately fluid and the order of places visited changes to fit whichever narrative is being told at the time. Here’s a stab anyway.

    C 9:15am Skripals visit cemetry to pay respects to wife / mother & son / brother at which point police lose contact with them until c 1:00pm. Police ask public for any sightings for up to 1:00pm.

    Police have not indicated yet when they think the poisoning took place ie when leaving at c 9:00am or 1:30pm and hence no time frame for the application of the Novichok on the door handle has been established

    For some reason the police believe the Skripals were back at home at c 1:00pm but left again at c 1:30 and drove into town getting caught on private cctv on India Avenue and at the Devizes Inn on Devizes Rd.
    (the time stamp on the videos does not fit with the official narrative so has been corrected India Av camera – 1hr 22mins, Devizes Inn + 3mins. The displayed time on the India Ave camera is 14:55 which was when the couple were in Zizzis or the Mill – you takes yer chance))
    (Early reports had the couple walking into town)
    (The driver of the car at the Devizes Inn has a light brown Jacket, Sergei was wearing a green coat according to what a witness, Cain Prince, Snap Fitness Manager said he had been told by police)

    They drive to Sainsbury’s car park and buy a ticket c 1:40. They travel via St Pauls roundabout that has cctv coverage but no council cctv has been released, the head of the council confirms the system was working that day which included the Maltings area where the bench is covered by a Council Camera. The Council cctv system produces High Definition images that clearly shows face details and vehicle number plates.

    And then they go to either the Mill or Zizzis first, they also take in a park with a river and feed ducks at some point giving some bread to 3 children so they can feed the ducks. One report suggests that Garlic Bread was involved so that suggests after Zizzis. Most reports either state or have photographs that identifies the park as the one adjacent to the bench where a couple were later found in a distressed state. Another by the Sun has photographs of a different park, Queen Elizabeth Gardens with a statement that this is where one of the children spoke to Skripal.

    The Mill has 12 cctv Cameras, the police seized the footage and interviewed the manager 8 times. No cctv footage from the Mill has been released.

    This is taking longer than I thought so if Rob is happy I will split it into segments where people can add / criticize to give a fuller picture of the fluid aspect of the story.

    Rob if you think this is inappropriate I shall not be offended if you delete. Well done on what you have done so far, from experience you will have more material given to you shortly by the police / government to keep you busy.

    Next chapter the bench (Rob willing)

    1. Good stuff Peter, I look forward to Chapter 2 The Bench.

       If the police have the events and a verified timeline, then I struggle to understand why they do not give it to the public. As by their own submission they have no suspects, the most obvious way of “jogging the memory” of a member of the public who saw or heard something of significance would be to let the public know the events on that Sunday in early March. Possibly even a video reenactment of the events.

       What could be better for the Met and the CounterTerror squad than a belated witness coming forward and identifying two eastern European types holding syringes and a map of Salisbury?
       Of course this has not happened, therefore it has not happened for a reason.

    2. The bench

       We know the bench is covered by the Council cctv camera above Market Walk walk way and we know from the Council leader it was working.

       And that’s about all we know because the Council cctv footage is being kept hidden from the public

       We don’t know if it was the Skripals who became sick on the bench because witness Freya Church said the people on the bench were “100% Definitely” the couple on the cctv images and Olly Field said it was a “blonde bird”. The couple in the cctv were “100% Definitely” Not the Skripals and Yulia had Reddish Brown hair.

       But we know the timestamp on the Snap Fitness cctv image has Freya leaving her place of work at 4:03, this has not been corrected by the police. She walked a few yards to the bench and saw the couple.

       Then we have a concerned member of the public make a call to the erergency services at 4:15 and a paramedic arrives within 60 seconds, 60 seconds after that another arrives and 60 seconds later an ambulance car.

       But before then Brave Bailey was first on the scene, then an army nurse, then a doctor and someone that held an umbrella over the pair.

       Jenny’s Restaurant (also in Market Walk next to Step Fitness) cctv has people walking towards the bench (no time stamp) including one female with a dog, someone with large black bags, then a ambulance car drives through the narrow walkway then a police car, two more emergency services personnel running towards the bench. Also a police car drives through but interestingly the person the police car drives past hides his face from the car.

       The newspapers name several people who witnessed the events

       Lots of people, lots of witnesses but there has still been no clear clear description of events (timings or who did what) given to the public, its being kept hidden like the Council cctv footage.

       Now why would that be?

       The Couple on the bench (who may not be the Skripals) were not poisoned by nerve agent according to Dr Stephen Davies and his statement was never withdrawn or corrected. They were kept at the bench for about an hour and then either both were taken to hospital by road or the female was taken by helicopter.

       Many reports had Yulai being taken away by the helicopter but in this strange story both may be true.
       The female on the bench taken by road, Yulia (not on the bench) taken by helicopter. Not sure where Sergei’s got to at this stage, I’m not sure it matters.
       The helicopter made a very odd, long and slow journey to get to Salisbury and odd again when it took off , it flew NW towards the cemetery area and spent time there before heading South for the hospital and landing – without a patient!?

       1. Flew NE towards the cemetery

          Also should have mentioned that police were reported at the scene before the 4:15 call to the emergency services so if true begs the question why the member of the public felt they needed to make the call.

       2. On some full screen versions of the Jenny’s restaurant video there is a time stamp of 16:00 but it does not move and it is said elsewhere that the time was actually 16:08.

          Re Yulia’s hair colour. Here is CCTV from Moscow airport that shows Yulia and confirms her hair colour was certainly not blonde:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUtzQxGt8MM

       3. And at 16.19 shout goes to air ambulance.
          I said it before, if this was cooked up by Sergei as a genuine suicide or a faked attack he must have planned the route.
          If Bailey trailed him on a “dry run” that could be why so many resources were available – the authorities didn’t want him to die.

    3. Peter, very good summary. May I add :
       According to the official investigation the Skripals left their home in the morning to visit London Road Cemetary.
       At this time there could not have been poison on the doorknob, because no traces were found at the cemetary !
       Thus, the investigation implies that the poison was smeared on the doorknob in the time the Skripals were in the graveyard – in broad daylight !
       At the same time, the authorities set the time when the Skripals were contaminated with the poison : 12:30 pm when they returned home.
       Curiously, the cat did not die of poison but of lack of food, although she was certainly stroked by the Skripal’s.
       Curiously, the Skripals collapsed simultaneously three and a half hours later at the bench.

       1. Good points Liane

          And we are trying to make sense of the Official Narrative which unfortunately make no sense what so ever.

          My view is that the door handle did not have Novichok applied until much, much later when the OPCW said they were coming to visit.

          That tested as Ultra Pure which is odd because it had the Skripals entering / leaving the home, DI Bailey giving it a tug plus others until the handle was identified as the source, rain and atmospheric pollutants, its original grime and the sample was still Ultra Pure! Well done Russia on making a first class Novichok, lucky for the Skripals and Bailey it doesn’t work.

          And you wouldn’t think an Ultra Pure Novichok of indeterminate doses would have a delayed action of several hours and then strike two very physically different people who had received different doses but were effected rapidly and simultaneously. They both went to death’s door and they both are recovering.

          The level of contempt that the government and police have for the people who pay their wages and pensions is getting quite offensive now

    4. No I don’t think it’s inappropriate at all, Peter. On the contrary, I am finding the contributions made by you and others very helpful. Carry on!

       And yes, there cannot fail to be more material forthcoming from the Keepers of the Official Narrative, since their explanation is bonkers and they know it. I expect they’re spending their days in a darkened room somewhere, furiously brainstorming between gulps of whiskey just how they can dig themselves out of this. Every few days, someone comes up with what is considered a bright idea, which they then try only to find – DOH! – it was even dumber than the last bright idea, and now they need to come up with another one to explain that one.

       Do spare a thought for them. We’re just a bunch of nobodys sitting here trying to work out their muddle; these VIPs are having to work out how they got themselves into it, how they can get themselves out of it, and what will happen to them if they don’t 🙂

       Rob

       1. Exactly! I have been wondering if the duck-feeding episode even happened – was it simply another ruse, intended to expand the vilification of Putin by accusing him of poisoning children?

          I have tried to find a “Luke and Victoria Cooper of Salisbury” and so far have drawn a blank. The only L Cooper listed in the phonebook lives miles away, so it is unlikely they would have a 12 year old son wandering around Salisbury city centre. I have not found the right Luke Cooper on social media either – although there are a couple of other ‘Luke Coopers’ in Salisbury. Do ‘Luke and Victoria Cooper of Salisbury’ even exist? Could a Salisbury resident visit the local library and look at the electoral register to see if they appear there?

26. Sometimes the early articles are closer to the truth. They wrote the Skripals were first at Zizzi and then went to The Mill Pub.

    SUN on March 9 :
    „Officers yesterday took CCTV from inside The Mill.
    1:30pm – The pair arrive at Zizzi’s Italian restaurant off the market square and choose table 37 at the back by the kitchen. Shortly before 2:30pm Sergei demands the bill and storms out of the restaurant with Yulia.
    Skripal and Yulia left Zizzi at around 2.30pm and went to the pub.
    2:45pm – The couple take a short walk and arrive at The Mill pub.“
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5742937/cops-hunt-blonde-woman-seen-on-cctv-20-mins-before-ex-russian-spy-spy-sergei-skripal-and-daughter-yulia-were-poisoned/

    TELEGRAPH on March 10 :
    „Witnesses have said that after eating at Zizzi’s restaurant they went to the Mill pub where Mr Skripal appeared unsteady on his feet, as if “drunk” – even though he had only ordered a single glass of white wine – suggesting the effects of the nerve agent were rapidly taking effect.“
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/10/poisoned-police-officer-not-hero-just-job/

    BBC on March 11 :
    „Steve Cooper, who was at the Mill pub with his wife and dog for a couple of hours last Sunday afternoon, told the BBC he was outraged.
    Some of his friends, who had been in the pub at the same time and seen Mr Skripal head to the toilet, could not remember what they had been wearing that day, he added.“
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-43362673

    ITV News Meridian on March 12 :
    Steve Cooper : „We´d been sitting on the very bench at around 3pm and then moved onto The Mill Pub and left there at 4:45pm where we saw the air ambulance.“
    https://www.facebook.com/itvnewsmeridian/videos/1699234906804241/

    Ben Cousins, CTVNews on March 12 :
    „While waiting for his wife to finish shopping on March 4, Steve Cooper sat on a bench with his dog outside a shopping centre in Salisbury, U.K.
    That day, Cooper also went to “The Mill,” a pub Skripal and his daughter visited before they were found unconscious. Cooper didn’t see the pair inside, but his friends noticed Skripal heading to the washroom.
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/man-who-sat-on-same-bench-as-poisoned-russian-spy-feeling-ok-1.3839381

    If the Skripals really left Zizzi at 2:45pm they had enough time to walk to QEG and then to the Mill Pub !

27. This has the Skripal visit to Zizzis ar 14.20 and a short mention to the play area near the Skripal home being cordoned on

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43315636

    More on the Montgomery Gardens play area here.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/salisbury-russia-nerve-agent-attack-latest-play-area-sergei-skripal-police-investigation-a8279996.html

    As I mentioned before the playground / park aspect has been pre-ordained. Just how we will have to wait and see.

    Now if you were the police wouldn’t you want to publish some evidence to countermeasure the onslaught of ridicule and tittering that is being directed at their pantomime performance?

    Just some CCTV pics with timings of the bench incident, the visit to the Mill and Zizzis. I don’t want to jeopardise their potential case against a dirty would be Russian assassin, in fact it may trigger a recollection in a member of the public that assists them.

    I would just like to see a concise time line with a simple detailed description of events. That’s not asking too much is it?

    1. The Daily Mail allows me to see cctv of people being shot and having their pixelated heads chopped off but I am not allowed to see a pic of Sergei buying a pint in the Mill pub (on the 12 camera cctv set up they have). Why do you suppose that is?

    2. Peter, forgive me for stating the obvious but this is not an ordinary case and nothing about it is simple – including the timeline. It isn’t even a proper criminal investigation – there is ample evidence of that.

       As Rob notes below, it is the: “biggest international scandal in decades” and it is 100% driven by international politics. For want of a better phrase, it is the British part of the ‘swamp’ fighting Trump. The Skripal/Steele dossier is where this part of the story starts and the use made of that dossier by Obama, approved by May, to obtain FISA warrants for MI6 to spy on the Trump campaign. This is already the subject of 2 Congressional hearings – the Judiciary Committee and the Intelligence Committee.

       It is also, thanks to May’s connections, deeply entwined in the “it’s the Russians” narrative initiated by John Brennan, before he quit as CIA director in January 2017. From its outset, this narrative has been intended, by the DNC, to block any rapprochement with Russia and to try to get Trump impeached.

       May has some very poweful backers. How was it that the most incompetent Home Secretary the country has ever seen, was the longest serving for over 100 years and managed to ride out so many scandals, whilst doing so much damage to the police force, stuffing it to the rafters with PC ideology, such that it has become unfit for purpose? Real crime (as opposed to ‘hate crime’ – whatever that is) rates are soaring and the police appear powerless. Sex crimes against children, by the thousand, across the country, have gone uninvestigated for years.

       Now she is the most incompetent PM we have ever seen. She was ‘annointed’, almost unchallenged. How did that happen? The only real opponent was Ledsome, who got stitched up in a dodgey interview, leaving May as the ‘last man standing’. How did she manage to survive the most inept election call the country has ever witnessed? Her ‘Chequers’ white paper is clear proof that she is not fulfilling her promises concerning the referendum – incidentally who wrote that white paper, David Davis was working on his own white paper and knew nothing of it? I could go on but I think you get my point. May is 100% Cabal and it has been the interests of the Cabal that has driven the Skripal scandal (and other things!). There ia a reason why those around her fall on their swords… but never Theresa May. The Sun has a very interesting interview with Trump, to be published today.

       We will get no answers to any reasonable question. There are no ‘facts’ they will tell us – the narrative changes as the political wind blows. Novihoax has a long/short shelf-life. Novihoax is/is not affected by humid conditions. Novihoax does/does not kill in minutes. It is all a farce and the reason they are keen to ensure we do not get facts, is because it allows them to continue changing the narrative. The only thing we can do is what Rob is doing: continue to point out the holes in their argument and ridicule them. Make sure that they know we do not believe their lies anymore.

       I was astonished to read recently that, of 30 European countries polled (1,000 people in each country), the UK came botton, 30th out of 30, for faith in the media! Only 23% of Brits said that they trusted the MSM – which is why we come here to express our views.

    3. We need a Crimewatch reconstruction. Don’t have nightmares 😉

28. Can someone please point me to the evidence that Charlie and Dawn were actually in QEGs before they became ill.

    1. Quote : Sam Hobson, a 29-year-old mechanic, said he was in Salisbury with the couple on Friday evening in locations close to some of the the places associated with the Skripal case.
       They spent time in “Lizzy Gardens” – Queen Elizabeth Gardens – close to the river. “We were having a drink and chilling in the sun,” Hobson said.
       https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jul/04/wiltshire-unknown-substance-leaves-pair-critically-ill-in-salisbury-hospital

29. It would be easy to re-open the Town Path and cordon off the rest of QEG.
    But obviously the authorities have reasons not to do it, although there are countless complaints from the population.

    Angus Macpherson, Police and Crime Commissioner for Wiltshire and Swindon today on Twitter :
    I have become aware of the inconvenience to local residents in #Salisbury, particularly near #Harnham because of the closure of town path which is adjacent to Queen Elizabeth Gardens.
    All agencies involved in this ongoing major incident completely understand and recognise the impact of the closure of the town path in #Salisbury and are aware that local people are keen to see it reopened as soon as possible.
    We’re sure everyone understands that the cordons in and around #Salisbury and #Amesbury are in place to ensure the ongoing safety of the public, and that has to be our number one priority.
    @wiltshirepolice are working closely with other agencies, including @PHE_uk , to ensure that the town path is reopened as soon as it is safe and practicable to do so.
    https://twitter.com/PCCWiltsSwindon/status/1017410476190228481

30. This to me looks to be the bridge they are standing in front of:

    https://www.google.nl/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi5hq6urJrcAhUGbVAKHS9nAQ0Qjhx6BAgBEAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.alamy.com%2Fstock-photo-flooded-footpath-queen-elizabeth-gardens-salisbury-wiltshire-england-66338562.html&psig=AOvVaw0ThBlwFexKwmB2q7zEYFTl&ust=1531511733705455

    https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-flooding-queen-elizabeth-gardens-salisbury-wiltshire-england-uk-65618366.html

    I just googled Queen Elisabeth Gardens and filtered om images.
    Other pictures of a bridge came up, but that one looked very straight. This one has a curve.

    I am not in the UK, but — all this googling cannot substitute real journalistic footwork: get on the phone, interview people, even if off the record, get over there, get in their faces without phoning first, etc.
    Why do people need to stress that even?
    If you turn up empty handed or your theory collapses because of new info – so much the better and salutes, etc. That’s all part of the game.

    1. BJ,

       It’s true.
       We have 40 or so chatting on this blog but NO investigative journalist in the UK running the story!
       Interview young Aiden and his parents, ask what he saw and where he actually was on that Sunday.
       Ask the Chief Constable for the police version. Contrast and compare.

       Why is the door knob still there?
       Would Porton Down not need to remove it for analysis?
       The world’s most deadly nerve agent taking 4+ hours to work….

       Why is the MSM not all over this?

31. Whilst I agree that we are not being told the full story, I think you’re barking up the wrong tree with this park confusion. It’s pretty obvious that the Sun are using creative license. They couldn’t get a photo of the family in the actual park because it was cordoned off so they just took a photo in another park and said it was the one. That’s it. You’re giving way too much credit to the professionalism of reporters from the Sun (although, to be fair, it was probably a sub-editor who captioned the photo, not the journalist or the photographer).

    1. 100% agree. Exactly what I said below this morning (09.28) only better put.

    2. Hi Phil,

       I agree it is a possibility that the Sun used “creative license. However, it isn’t true that they couldn’t have got a photo in the actual get park because it was cordoned off. The park itself was cordoned off, but there is a footpath alongside the river (or at least one part of the river), alongside Sainsbury’s, where it would have been very easy to get some good photos. In fact, it would have made for a perfect picture. With a decent camera, you could have got the river, the family and the tent covering the Skripal bench all in the same shot.

       And over on the other side of the park, there was another walkway by the river which wasn’t closed off either (this is just outside of Market Walk where the people with the blurry faces and red bag were seen). Again, it would have been the perfect place to get a shot of the family, the river and the cordoned off park.

       I can vouch for all of this, because I went there several times and was amazed at just how much of it wasn’t cordoned off, given what we were being told about the substance (for instance, Market Walk was never cordoned off, even though some reports said the Skripals may have had nerve agent on their shoes, and the official story had them walking through Market Walk). There was also a constant supply of reporters and cameras around these areas.

       So whilst I agree that the Sun report may contain some porkies, to be honest if I had been writing and photographing the piece, I could have:

       a) Easily done it in the vicinity of the Avon Playground
       b) Would have done it there because it fits the narrative whereas QEG doesn’t and
       c) Would definitely have done it there in order to get some “sinister” Child + River + Skripal Bench pictures (if I had been a Sun reporter, that is, which I’m not, thankfully:)).

       Rob

32. Liz says:
    July 12, 2018 at 4:30 pm

    “Dumping” the poison in a park would assume the assassin deliberately endangered the public. Why take the detour and not throw it into the bin?

    Kids don’t ask people for bread to feed the ducks without cause. Much more likely spies standing on a pond feeding the ducks and kids joining them.

    Who are the bad guys Aidan is afraid of? And why? Because he saw them?

    And how did the paper get notice? That would be Aidan’s parents giving them the story?

33. Do we know the name of the road where the Skripals lived? I’ve heard it said that QE Gardens is near their home (can’t remember where it was stated) and it’s been suggested that the remains of the poison could have been dumped there – no need for the Skripals to have been in the park at all. It seems strange that the park wasn’t checked after the Skripal attack if it really is near their house.

    1. http://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news/16223479.Police_scale_back_cordons_outside_Skripal_home/

34. Excellent work, thanks.
    But it is still possible that the Sun reporter merely asked the family, “Hey, do you have a snapshot we could use as a visual?” — any snapshot of a park outing for background. Has anyone actually claimed it was taken on the day in question?

    1. David G., they published a lot of pictures. For example Aiden with bread in his hand. I doubt that it was in the family album.
       https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/2425900/schoolboy-12-on-how-he-was-exposed-to-deadly-poison-after-russian-spy-sergei-skripal-gave-him-bread-to-feed-ducks-in-salisbury/

35. Jen says:
    July 12, 2018 at 6:31 am

    Sounds like British spies are very traditional.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/captain-moonlight-spies-of-the-old-school-1428757.html

    So who were Skripals meeting under the cover of feeding the ducks.

    And how come they were filmed.

36. FYI COPY: ORIGINALLY POSTED IN CRAIG MURRAY BLOG DISCUSSION…
    john_a
    July 11, 2018 at 22:39
    Hopefully this English transcript of a news report from the German public broadcasting service on 7th June will be of interest to those who are following the Skripal case.

    Fall Skripal – Berlin hat bis heute keine Beweise aus London
    The Skripal Case – Until today Berlin has no evidence from London
    07.06.2018 | 3 Min. | Source: Deutschlandfunk
    Author: Götschenberg, Michael
    Programme: Informationen am Mittag
    http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/informationen-am-mittag.1765.de.html

    Until today the German Federal Government has been waiting in vain: As RBB Radio has learned from government circles, until today the British Government has presented absolutely no evidence to the Federal Government that would prove that Russia is responsible for the poison attack on the double-agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. The Federal Government reported this yesterday to the Parliamentary Control Committee of the German Federal Parliament in a closed session. Up till now it has simply been learned that the poison concerned was Novichok, a chemical weapon that was produced in the Soviet Union. Beyond this the British Government has so far presented absolutely no evidence. It could neither prove that the poison used came from Russia, nor that the Kremlin was responsible for the attack, it was reported.

    According to RBB information, the German intelligence services also have no information from their own sources that would permit such conclusions.

    After Yulia Skripal, her father Sergei has also now left the hospital. In recent days, Yulia Skripal made a brief statement before the cameras in Great Britain.[A SHORT EXCERPT IN RUSSIAN IS HEARD.] She said that she still found it hard to believe that she and her father were attacked in this way, and that their recovery had been slow and painful. The doctors in the hospital in Salisbury said that the Skripals’ recovery bordered on a miracle; it had really been assumed that they would not survive.

    The Skripal case led to a dramatic deterioration in diplomatic relations between Russia and numerous western countries. After the British Government had declared that it was convinced that Russia was responsible for the poison attack on Skripal and his daughter, over 140 Russian diplomats were expelled from a total of 26 European countries, the USA and NATO, an event that was unique in its scale. Germany also participated, and expelled four Russian diplomats. In return, Russia expelled the same number of diplomats from the countries concerned.

    NDR, WDR, Süddeutsche Zeitung and Die Zeit had reported that in the 1990s a Russian scientist had offered a sample of Novichok to the [German] Federal Intelligence Service [BND]. Since then it is known that the nerve poison was exported from Russia, at least to the West. It is not clear where else it might possibly have found its way to.

    The conduct of the British Government is increasingly putting the German Federal Government in a position where it is difficult to explain itself. Beyond the fact that the poison has been identified as Novichok, there is no trail that leads to Russia, let alone to the Kremlin. The decision to participate in the expulsion of Russian diplomats therefore appears more than questionable.

37. I do not believe the official narrative. But I do not think there is any mystery about this.
    Avon Playground would have been quarantined when the photos were taken.
    Paper wants kid, ducks and water – take photos at QEG.
    Sainsbury’s car park, The Mill pub, Zizzis, the bench and Avon Playground are all next to each other. A heavyset, elderly man wouldn’t take a detour to the QEG to “feed the ducks”.

    1. There is a mystery but one which can be quickly and easily resolved.

       But even if it is bit of creative licence there is quite a bit about the QEG angle (like the rest of the story) that doesn’t add up

38. The reason DI Bailey didn’t die is because he wore gloves and a heavy shower previously in the day had diluted the Novichok on the door handle.

    The reason the Skripals didn’t die was not because they wore glove but because of the heavy shower

    Yet the heavy shower did not wash the remaining snow away, therefore Novichok is more susceptible to water than snow except when you where gloves and that increases its intensity

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/haunting-cctv-shows-ex-spy-12201157

    NB the timing in the above snow-on-the-ground cctv clip is timed at 14:55, the police say this is wrong it should be 13:33 because Sergei was in Zizzis shouting at people at 14:55

    The police imply Freya Church is wrong by saying the bench pair were “100% Definitely” the same as in the CCTV clip (her white hair / red bag)

    The police imply Olly Field is wrong when he said the female on the bench was a “blondle bird”

    The police imply Dr Stephen Davies was wrong when he said “may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning”

    By a direct connection the Skripals, Bailey, Rowley and Sturgess are related so it would be reasonable for the Coroner to want to take evidence at Dawns Inquest from the Davies, Skripals, Bailey, Rowley, Chrurch, Field and anyone else that witnessed what went on around the bench s/he will want to see the Council cctv of the bench and Maltings.

    Well that was the case until they changed the law after the Dr David Kelly death. The law was changed that forces a Coroner to accept the findings of a Public Inquiry even if the Inquiry insufficiently investigated the pertinent facts. Even if new evidence becomes available to the Coroner that wasn’t available to the Inquiry the Coroner Must put on the Death Certificate the findings of the Inquiry.

    This possibility may leave a Coroner with a simple choice; put a known false conclusion on the Death Certificate or as in Dr Kelly’s case abandon the Inquest and not submit a Final Death.
    Certificate.

    Expect a Public Inquiry to hijack an inquest into Dawn’s sad demise.

39. Of course the photo of the boy and his parents is “staged”, but that does not mean the location is incorrect.
    From Rob’s Blog, the Met are stating the following:

    15:35: They leave the restaurant

    16:15: Emergency services are called by a member of the public to the bench where Sergei and Yulia are slumped on a bench

    If the Skripals in good health went to QEG after leaving the restaurant, to feed ducks/meet someone and then were “dosed” that would fit the timeline and the boy’s version. They then walked to the park bench location and collapsed.
    Time delayed nerve agents, 4 hour walk from the door knob etc. just cannot be.
    Why was QEG sealed off this weekend, some 4 months after Skripal 1?

    Possibly because the plod realised it was a place of interest from the first attack.
    If the world’s most deadly compound was administered there, then maybe Sturgess and Rowley were aware of it’s QEG location and snorted/sniffed the chemical last weekend.

    1. “Why was QEG sealed off this weekend, some 4 months after Skripal 1?
       Possibly because the plod realised it was a place of interest from the first attack.
       If the world’s most deadly compound was administered there, then maybe Sturgess and Rowley were aware of it’s QEG location and snorted/sniffed the chemical last weekend.”

       Duncan, I don’t understand your point. If Sturgess and Rowley were aware of the Queen Elizabeth Gardens location of the Novichok, why had they (voluntarily ?) sniffed it ?

       1. My point was the fact that the “Authorities” immediately sealed off QEG when two “drug folk” got sick some 10 miles away.

40. Rob, I think you’ve forgotten that bucket of salt! This whole piece is based on one caption to a photo. The (staged) photo (with bread) was probably taken somewhere convenient; back in the Sun’s offices, someone added a caption pretending it was taken at the ‘scene of the crime’. Journalists tend to exaggerate and overstate.

    More interesting is how the boy was identified, allegedly by CCTV. Can the police really identify someone from amongst the whole population of Salisbury based on a (probably grainy) CCTV image? Do they have photographs of everyone in Salisbury with which to compare??

    1. Martin, the Sun journo is currently in Moscow, ( no coincidence) chasing a football story. I spoke with his editor and the Sun, up until now, don’t see the significance of the location. That may change when Nick Pisa the journo in question returns. Simon Jones was the photographer. Regarding tracing the boys and CCTV, I would have thought they would simply have come forward and presented themselves to the medics to be screened.and were not traced or found by the plod.
       However, if it really was a QEG location, then why not search and decontaminate the park and update the Skripal timeline?

    2. Martin, you are right : bread in the hands of the boy, that is clearly staged. And the whole photo can thus be staged.

    3. The Council CCTV system is High Definition, clear face details and car number plates can be seen and there’s one pointing right at the bench which was working that day.

       The Mill pub had 12 cameras, footage from which was seized by the police, the manager was interviewed 8 times by the police?

41. The Sun article is printed a few days after it first appeared (in Mail, Mirror, Metro etc) all who have the park location behind the bench and pictures of lots of people in protective clothing swarming all over the Maltings play area.

    Two points 1) The Sun had more time to fact check and actually interview the family and photograph them but in QEG

    And 2) A heck of a lot of effort went into earlier establishing that the park concerned was actually by the bench.

    But the photo published in the Sun article and reproduced here by Rob has an extremely important caption (not shown here but follow Sun link in Rob’s piece). It reads;

    “Aiden with his parents by the pond where he spoke to Skripal”

    So it wasn’t just a photo opportunity that needed any old park with water, this is definitely QEG and confirmation that this is where Aiden spoke to the Skripals and was photographed on cctv being given bread by Sergei – I am still not sure that there is a cctv camera covering that location, another trip to Salisbury I think.

    And why haven’t the cctv pics been made public?

42. Can we get a Salisbury local involved? Rob that must be you.
    The London press journos who were involved in the “boys feeding ducks” stories and location maps both seem to indicate that the Skripals and the boys were feeding the ducks southwest of the “expected” location. This reported location is Mill Road/QEG and NOT Market Walk where the Avon River is close to the park bench site where the Skripals collapsed.
    Ascertaining and verifying this is fundamental to debunking the official story.
    The boy is one of three, the parents have been interviewed by the Sun, but possibly London journos did not realise that the meandering Avon presented several duck feeding opportunities.
    One boy is actually reported as eating a piece of the bread Skripal took from the restaurant.

    However, if it was QEG then that adds a very relevant new chapter to the saga.

    Rob, can you sort this out and claim the Pulitzer which is there for the taking?

43. Excuse me but I’d like to throw a spanner into the whole conversation.

    Isn’t “feeding the ducks” some sort of spy jargon? I recall reading on Off-Guardian that “feeding the ducks” is a trope found in John le Carre’s spy novels. And indeed in the link below of a review of one of these novels, there is a reference to an interview conducted while someone was feeding ducks.
    https://orbific.com/category/john-le-carre/

    In other words, this “feeding the ducks” business could have been deliberately planted into the government’s narrative to lead people astray.

    1. Sorry to repeat myself, but we need facts. What does Aiden Cooper exactly say ? In what park did he feed the ducks ? Did the man and the woman look like the Skripals (as shown on pictures on Internet) or rather like the people on the CCTV ? What was the hair colour of the woman ? Did the two persons speak with a foreign accent ? (Thanks to Paul for this idea.)
       Perhaps the fact that the two persons on the bench could be differet from the Skripals induces cognitive dissonance, but Agatha Christie’s Hercule Poirot says in one of her books : “If a detail does not fit with your theory, do not neglect this detail, focus on it.” (I quote from memory.)

       1. Agreed. How can we be 4 months on and unsure where the boys encountered the Skripals? If indeed it was QEG then why not initially seal that area off and look for nerve agent/decontamination etc.

    2. I said below it is tradecraft. Sergei was in Russian Military intelligence. If you want to meet someone, do something, be somewhere, you have to have a reason.
       And we know D-Notices have been issued not to name “ex MI6” officers who live in Salisbury.
       So in fact “feeding the ducks” makes it more likely there was skulduggery.

44. Wow! If this is indeed true—it throws a wrench into the whole story/timeline! I wish I could visit Salisbury to investigate. Ugh! So frustrating. Thanks for the great post!

45. Rob, have you read The Times article of 3 May?
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gloves-failed-to-shield-sergeant-from-novichok-htdzvs6dt

    The article is interesting for a few reasons. Much of the article is based on: “a source with knowledge of the case” and there are some details that I believe TheTimes was the first to print, such as:
    “…the first person to respond to the Skripals when they passed out was an off-duty army nurse who had worked on the ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone. The nurse, a commissioned officer who has asked to remain anonymous, treated them before the emergency services arrived, and was vomited on but is not thought to have suffered novichok poisoning.” I have done a quick search but can’t find those precise details reported elsewhere at an earlier date.

    The article goes on to describe the lunch at Zizzis and again attributes that to “the source”. Immediately thereafter is this:
    “They are believed to have taken bread, potentially contaminating it, to feed the ducks in a park near by. There they encountered three boys.”

    The Times does not name its source but if their source is correct, they left the restaurant intending to feed the ducks. As far as I can determine, it is at least an 8 minute walk to Town Path Bridge from Zizzis and a 7 minute walk back to the bench. There and back is almost exactly 1 mile, so a stroll rather than a walk, is probably more like 25 minutes. If they left Zizzis at 15:35, they had between zero and ten minutes to feed the ducks and be back, in time for Freya Church to find them, collapsed on the bench.

    As I mentioned above, the article is from 3 May, so ‘the source’ had had 8 weeks to investigate the timetable… and what he had come up with, was that they took some bread from Zizzis and went to feed some ducks. Because it cuts time so short, I am not a buyer of this story but on the off-chance it is correct, there must have been a very compelling reason for Sergei to take a 1 mile round trip, after he left Zizzis and frankly, ‘feeding ducks’ is not compelling enough for me.

    The choice of words: “…in a park near by” is also interesting as it is clearly ambiguous. The others may have named the wrong park but The Times does not make that mistake – it chooses not to name any park. Might that have been a detail they chose, or were asked, to omit?

    Finally, the idea that Aiden Cooper and his two friends were completely oblivious to their possible involvement, for 2 weeks, is simply not credible. How could a 12 year old and his 2 friends, who presumably spoke to the Skripals not have noticed their accents and for 2 weeks afterwards not have wondered if they were not the old man and his daughter, the whole country was talking about? How could all three not have noticed that the pictures of the Skripals, which filled every newspaper front page for weeks, looked like the people they had met in the park? Are kids today so uninquisitive that not one of the three said: “Hey [mum/dad] we met that old geezer and his daughter in the park last Sunday. We fed the ducks with them”? Surely at least one of them would have been boasting to their school friends about it.

    1. Are there Commissioned Officers who are “nurses”? NCOs I could believe.

       1. Yes, there are – clearly, you understand very little about the structure of our armed forces.

          1. I did correct it straight away. What’s your rank in the 77th Brigade?

    2. Sorry Paul and Times. It seems all army nurses are commissoned officers.
       But what is a little intriguing is http://www.royallogisticcorps.co.uk/84-medical-supply-squadron-wins-the-escea-for-extreme-logistics/
       The air ambulance on its meanders “circled” RAF Hullavington. The 84 medical supply squadron who were deployed to the ebola outbreak are based there. Then a nurse who has been to Sierra Leone pops up. Another odd occurrence.

       1. The helicopter route continues to intrigue me. Peter Beswick kindly replied to one of my earlier comments on another thread and gave me some useful links for the flight data. One of them was this: https://flight-data.adsbexchange.com/map?icao=406CBC&date=2018-03-04

          At 16:03:38, the helicopter was at lat: 51.604691, long: -1.95588 – this appears to be a house, near to the B4040 at Minety.

          Google Map Reference Here

          According to Wiltshire Air Ambulance’s website, the Skripal incident is listed as:
          Incident description: Patient fitting, land assisted to hospital. Time and date: 16:19 04/03/2018

          The helicopter left Minety ten minutes later, at 16:30:28 and initially flew WSW before circling Hullavington at 16:34 and then turning SSE towards Salisbury. The last data transmission was at 16:45:52 over the Salisbury Plain Training Area. This would have been about 5 minutes flying time, north of Salisbury. The next transmission I can find is at 17:14:20 at Bourne Retail Park.

          There is no data, from the Salisbury area, for the duration of the incident. Does anyone know whether there might be a technical reason that would explain this; or might the transponder have been switched off at 16:45?

          1. Rob, I don’t know why the link is failing to be reproduced on your webpage. Would you please edit the link in my original post (the entire llink should be a hyperlink not just the initial part) and then delete this post and the one immediately above. Thank you.

          2. I am only on a smartphone, Paul, so indulge me. The air ambulance did not scramble from its base – Police HQ Devizes?
             It was already on the ground at Minety?
             When they got the shout they took off, headed towards Hullavington (RAF and Army base), circled, then headed to Salisbury.
             Maybe they need permission to fly over MoD controlled airspace (Salisbury Plain) and that’s why they delayed?

          3. I am only on a smartphone, Paul, so indulge me. The air ambulance did not scramble from its base – Police HQ Devizes?
             It was already on the ground at Minety?
             When they got the shout they took off, headed towards Hullavington (RAF and Army base), circled, then headed to Salisbury.
             Maybe they need permission to fly over MoD controlled airspace (Salisbury Plain) and that’s why they delayed?
             A simple explanation that could be shared without compromising national security.

             1. Patrick, Thank you for the reply. If you plug the coordinates into Google maps and then switch to ‘satellite view’, it is a large isolated house to the south of Minety. The helicopter was there from 16:03 until 16:30. It did not scramble from Devizes.

                It headed straight to Hullavington, then, to the NE of Buckleigh Barracks, over the South Wales Mainline, it did a clockwise circle for just over a minute, before heading straight for Salisbury. Maybe there was some activity on the airfield it had to avoid.

                It continued transmitting until 16:45:52 (altitude: 1500; speed: 137; lat: 51.23542799; long: -1.97063499) just to the NW of Tilshead. Then there is nothing until after the ‘incident’ – Bourne Park at 17:14:20. I am curious why there were no transmissions (right at the time that we want them the most!)

                1. I looked at Google maps. That house appears to have a tarmac rectangle with circular marks on it. Is it a helicopter landing area?
                   The only other oddity is the house to the north is Braydon Hall where Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull lives. It is a 400 acre estate so maybe the “helicopter house” is part of it.

                   1. The area you mention has a wooden fence around it, so it might be an arena for horses but a helicopter could use it too (although it looks like there is no shortage of alternatives). Anyway, that’s where the helicopter was when the call came in. 15 minutes later, it stopped transmitting.

                      1. I saw someone mention it is Distillery Farm (geograph have a pic saying it is, but Zoopla gives different location for DF) don’t want to put their names up but the couple who live there have multiple company directorships in some fairly vague sounding enterprises. He has directorships in a film company (made Layer Cake).
                         Also yearly they have a marquee set up for a mini-glyndebourne style opera for a charity. Could be reason for tarmac?
                         If it is Distillery Farm they don’t seem to have any obvious connection with Wiltshire Air Ambulance, but it would seem odd if the air ambulance had a call out to a property with a helipad.

                         1. Peter Beswick mentioned Distillery Farm (Joining the dots part 5).

                            https://www.list.co.uk/place/20024738-distillery-farm-malmesbury/
                            puts it about 1/4 mile due south of the house we are looking at.
                            Map coordinates: 51.599982, -1.960105

                            1. The family who live there, the daughter has some pics on twitter of horsey stuff. It seems to be DF, the white baulks of wood are in the grass paddock and the plastic jumps are lying on the wooden fence.The “tarmac” area actually seems to be sort of ash/small grit. I think it is DF.
                               You probably googled them – the guy was Sir James Goldsmith’s “private office” right-hand-man. Literally as he wrote the cheques.
                               He was involved in Goldsmith’s Referendum Party. That is not UKIP – the Referendum Party was actually much better funded by (by Goldsmith) and had a higher profile until his death in 1997. After that it was disbanded and a lot joined UKIP. Farage was always a UKIP man though, so no connection.
                               The chopper being there no doubt was totally innocent. Chest pains, fall from horse, dial 999. Then when HEMS paramedics gave all clear they got the shout for Salisbury.
                               But why are no journalists asking these questions? An interview with the people who were with the crew when they got the call would be newsworthy, I think.

                            2. Paul go Bing Maps

                               go Minety

                               go Ordanace Survey Option

                               go Aerial Option

                               Patrick, The “shout” at Minety was not recorded in the logs but not every one was / is.
                               The flight to Salisbury was just plain odd as was the flight from Salisbury. Flying NW away from the hospital, a strange flight pattern and then flying Sth to the hospital and landing – with no patient on board!

                            3. Sorry let me be clearer the flight paths / timings may make perfect sense if we knew what was actually going on.

                               But we don’t!

    3. Very interesting stuff Paul. I had assumed that if they were indeed feeding ducks in QEG, this must have been *before* The Mill and certainly *before* Zizzis. The reason for my assumption is that I reckon it would take a good 10 minutes or so to get to the bridge (which is on the far side of QEG if you’re coming from the Zizzis direction) at a stroll. It’s roughly the same distance back to the bench in The Maltings (maybe a minute or so less if you went down a footpath called Water Lane). So 18 minutes or so. Then there is the duck feeding, which adds some minutes onto it. All in all, pretty difficult to imagine that they could have done this between 15:35 and got back to the bench by 16:03. Apart from anything, why not feed ducks in the Avon by the Avon Playground?

       But if the bread they were using was garlic bread from Zizzis, and if it was indeed QEG, then this would seem to be pretty significant.

       Whoever would have thought that ducks and garlic bread might be so important to the biggest international scandal in decades 😉

       Thanks,

       Rob

       1. If they were seen near the house, driving towards Salisbury at 13:33 and arrived at the carpark at 13:40, there was no time to stop on the way at QEG. 40 minutes later they arrived at Zizzis. Whether before or after The Mill, there would barely be time to walk to QEG and feed the ducks and it would have been something of a ‘pit-stop’ at The Mill! So the idea that they planned a 1 mile walk to feed some ducks does not easily fit in anywhere.

          While looking to see what else might have been said about the timeline, I stumbled over something else. I am sure you have seen the Newsnight story, aired on 29 May: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwhR6wqNEis&feature=youtu.be

          The Washington Post article about this story (also 29 May), says something that does not appear in the programme:
          “Lorna Wilkinson, the nursing director at Salisbury District Hospital, told the BBC that the first clue that it was not a drug overdose was when Sgt. Nick Bailey, a police officer and first responder, was admitted to the emergency room with similar symptoms.”
          http://archive.li/zbuv0#selection-1453.0-1453.257

          Those words do not appear in any UK MSM article but they are used in several US reports along with one Russian and one Indian report. The earliest use appears to be in a US website, dated 28 March – so maybe it is not from Newsnight:
          https://medium.com/@binreminded/a-fresh-look-at-the-skripal-timeline-9739e89add45

          The Medium.com article might simply have the wrong date but Medium.com does not refer to the Newsnight programme at all and the paragraph stands on its own. The ‘postscript’ below the article does refer to matters that would not have been known on 28 March, such as the recovery of the Skripals, so maybe the date is right. In which case, where does it come from?

          It has echoes of the initial local paper report of a drug incident… that was subsequently revised. Even if the Medium.com date is wrong, it is odd that this was reported in the US but not in the UK.

          I think it was approx 10:00am on Monday when DS Bailey drove himself to hospital – do we have any commenters with medical knowledge who might offer a view on treating a suspected drug overdose for 18 hours. Would patients survive if it was not actually a drug overdose? How long would medical professionals continue a treatment if it did not seem to be working as expected? Are there any immediate tests they would have done to confirm a drug overdose and how long would that take?

46. Rob, your texts are very interesting, but I agree with other commenters : you should try to question witnesses : Freya Church, Olly Field, Georgia Pridham, Aiden Cooper… and ask them if the people on the bench looked like the Skripals or rather like the people on the CCTV, if Aiden Cooper was in Queen Elizabeth Gardens a.s.o. A polite phone call is not a crime. If they refuse to answer, you say “Sorry” and it is all.

    1. Agreed. It is so fundamental. If the young chap really encountered the Skripals in a park which is not listed in “official” Sunday story, then that fact must be simple to verify.

       Where is our local hero (no, not Bailey) who can easily determine where and when the duck feeding occurred? I also fear for the ducks as they might have suffered the same fate as the Skripal pets. But perhaps not, as they were of course ingesting the world’s most dangerous nerve gas in bread format.

       Why is QEG now a place of interest? Rowley will tell all, but we will hear nothing.

47. This picture looks awfully Photoshoppy. The background is blurred all the way up to the nearest part of the water. From the size of the ducks, the nearest part of the water would be about 10 feet from the people, so the ducks should be a lot clearer in a real photo. Also, note the whitish edge along the left side of the man’s image. Not proof, but mighty suspicious.

    1. Part of the picture has been photoshopped – if you look at the water surface between the left leg of the father and the right leg of the son, it does not match the rest of the water. I ran that part of the picture through imageedited.com and got: “Probably – Pixels only match software editors.”

       1. Forget that. The grey is the pattern on his trouser not the water! I just ran the whole picture through http://fotoforensics.com and it does not show anything unusual.

       2. There is no image of water between the left leg of the father and the right leg of the son. What you refer to as water is trimimg on the boy’s trousers (which matches the design on the top of the shoulder).

    2. You need to learn about depth of field and its relationship with aperture.

    3. It depends on the type of lens used. A decent portrait lens wide open will tend to give that kind of 3D effect due to the shallow depth of field. Also notice the almost in focus branches hanging down just behind them. It looks real.

48. I commented thus in reply to one of your earliest Skripal posts Rob ~ methinks it’s time to repeat…

    British ‘Deep-State’ is determined to keep us in the EU. In order to ensure Brexit fails they have rolled out a number of covert operations, one of which is the ‘Novichok’ op, the objective of which is to discredit May & Co so badly that the government falls, a general election results, Brexit fails… This will happen if/when deep-state releases to MSM another Novichok saga ‘explanation’ supported by ‘facts’, which, although also false, seem to make sense and completely undermine the claims that Russia has been responsible as made/endorsed by May et al, hoisting them on their own petard, leaving them no choice but to resign at least from govt positions if not as MPs (and effectively barring Boris from becoming leader).

    The fake Assad Syria nerve agent attack claim is similar – another deep-state option for potentially bringing down May & Co. And there are others.

    It is possible that deep state can achieve their aim without releasing counter-narratives – merely threatening to publicly disclose their narrative disgracing May & Co could suffice to bring about deep-state’s objective.

    Meanwhile, fascinating to follow your and others’ pursuit of truth!

    .

    1. You’re absolutely spot on, my thoughts too. Notice that both the original Skripal poisoning, and now this latest Amesbury incident, have both coincided with May making major capitulations to Brussels, both from Chequers meetings. The Skripal story hit the news the same week she made a major capitulation to Brussels in February, completely dominating the news and eclipsing what May had just done. Instead she took the chance to call for a ‘united European response to Russian Aggression’… when she was supposed to be dis-uniting us from the EU. Many european countries expelled Russian diplomats as a result, even the US… with one notable exception. The EU didn’t expel a single one of their 100 strong Russian diplomatic corps. So all of this strengthened the EU’s hand as the gate keeper of diplomatic relations with Russia, at a time when some European countries were lamenting the demonising of Putin and Russia wanting better relations with them.

49. Noviducks?

50. I remember some confusion at the time regarding which park it was but that was “clarified” to be the one adjacent to the Maltings.

    However, from memory, there is no cctv coverage of QEG but supposing there were how did the police know which child was given the bread? A cctv capture of the event? And 2 weeks before they did anything about it and then keep the location secret from the rest of the public particularly those that were in QEG that day when Sergei was giving out bread to kids willy nilly.

    And why park the car in the Maltings why not the car park at the park? It does however push further the theory that they walked into town that day via the short cut onto Wilton Rd and up by the station to Mill Rd and the park. And there is a nice big camera on St Pauls roundabout that should prove useful, it may also catch who was driving the Skripal car when they were having lunch in Zizzis.

    Its not going at all well is it, do you think they will stop being silly now?

    1. Do I think they’ll stop being silly? Ha ha ha! It’s like asking whether a drunk can stop wobbling all over the place.

       Got Spade. Dug Hole. Need to Get Out. Keep Digging. Eventually We’ll Come Out Somewhere.

       Rob

       1. I think you are right.

          But the earlier suggestion for a map & time line I think will assist some on just how wobbly it is.

          Car caught on cctv at India Avenue 2:55 (has been corrected by police to 1.33pm) then on cctv at Devizes Inn 1:32pm, (has been corrected by police to 1.35pm), then drive to Sainsbury’s car park, get ticket b 1.40pm?, (get bread?), walk to QEG, feed the ducks, walk back to Mill pub, have a pint, and in Zizzis c 2.30pm (where Sergei is clearly pressed fro time)

          1. I don’t think there is any suggestion they bought bread in Sainsbury’s. No warnings”if you were in Sainsbury’s wash you clothes” etc.
             What I was thinking if it was a suicide (or faked attack) by Sergei he (or somebody else) had planned the route and the final location.
             The immediate presence of police, paramedics on a Sunday afternoon takes some believing.
             Unless he was tailed (by Bailey?) on a practice run and the thought of what he might do was predicted.

51. Rob, as the officials leave us in the dark – it´s time for „citizen-journalists“ !
    You live in Salisbury and you may do a little investigation :
    1) Ask Aiden Coopers parents which park it was and at what time exactly.
    2) Try to find out at what time exactly the Skripals visited The Mill Pub. Suspiciously, no information was ever given in the media or by the officials.
    3) Try to find out why The Mill Pub and NOT the Zizzi is a crime scene.
    4) Ask Freya Church or the manager of Snap Fitness if the Skripals are on their CCTV walking through Market Walk.
    It could be that the Skripals did not approach the bench through the Market Walk but from the Mill Pub direction !
    That would mean that either The Mill Pub or Queen Elizabeth Gardens were their last whereabouts.
    It could be that the authorities knowingly exposed the population to danger because they were too cumbersome and costly to shut down Queen Elizabeth Gardens.

    1. Even IF we believe the Skripals fed the ducks at the Avon Playground – what does that mean about their path ?
       Zizzi – Market Walk – Avon Playground – and then back to the bench ?
       WHY ? Avon Playground is just a few steps away from Sainsbury car park, where they had parked their BMW. So why should they move back to the bench ?
       The whole timeline of Skripal´s movements stinks to high heaven !

    2. May I add one Question?

       Where and when were the Skripals seen with the red bag?

52. It could make a lot more sense of the known facts if Sergei Skripal had decided to commit suicide in a suitably theatrical way that would be attributed to the Russians. I wonder if there were any life insurance policies on him? And in favour of who? He may have been a) depressed at having to stay in the UK (we know he’d written to Putin personally asking to be allowed to return to Russia) and b) worried that his involvement in the Trump Dossier could come out, and c) have other money/personal worries unknown to us.

    So lets say he decides to top himself, but needs it to look like its not suicide and that Putin has ordered his assassination. He has some contact in Russia to get hold (or maybe had an old stash) of some chemical that will do the job. He gets Yulia to bring it to him. Maybe he doesn’t plan to kill her too, maybe he does, who knows. He goes through the day as we have seen. He feeds the ducks, as cover for throwing away the container (containing more unused ampules), then either doses both himself and Yulia on the bench (or sends her off, then doses himself, and she returns and contaminates herself from him). The extremely dry weather we have had since March (May, June and July so far have had almost no rain) means that the area into which he threw the container is now exposed. Rowley and Sturgess see this poking out of the water/mud and retrieve it, finding the contents. Being druggies they immediately assume its drugs. They take it back to Rowleys in Amesbury. Maybe Sturgess opens it without Rowley, thinking she’ll have the lot to herself. So when Rowley finds her most of the liquid is gone, so he gets a lesser dose from the empty bottle. The rest we know.

    Maybe the chemical is not a military nerve agent, but some sort of similar agent used by Russian secret services that Skripal would have had access to. Maybe its degraded over time and is not as potent as it was, hence why some have survived contact.

    The only problem with all this is that the authorities have said the source of the Amesbury events was not at the house in Amesbury, which you would expect it to be on the story above, plus there should be chemical agent all over the house, and Sam Hobson should also have been contaminated. Maybe they have found the ampule and container at Amesbury, but its markings indicate what it is, thus throwing the whole Novichok idea into disarray, so its been airbrushed out? If the authorities buy the house in Amesbury and demolish it, that might answer that question……

    1. I suppose when Dawn fell ill and the ambulance was called, Charlie had plenty of time before he got ill to dispose of an ampule.
       Last night at the meeting Basu said the container could be in a landfill and safe. Maybe they have figured it out too.

       1. True. Rowley has done time for heroin possession, when Sturgess fell ill his immediate reaction would be to dispose of the evidence. Yes, that landfill statement is interesting, it suggests they know what they’re looking for and that Rowley may have disposed of it in in some way that would mean it ended up in a landfill.

    2. As the author of the dossier, Sergei was already a candidate for Arkancide. Steele is still dodging 2 Senate committees that would like to speak to him and Chuck Grassley sugested criminal proceedings against Steele in January. Sergei had plenty of reasons to be fearful that ‘something’ might happen to him as there are LOTS of people who do not want him to speak. He did not want to kill himself, he was trying to stay alive, which was why he tried to go back to Russia and put himself beyond reach. He not only wrote to Putin, he also made several visits to the Russian Embassy.

       When returning to Russia failed, plan B was a deal with the British government to ‘disappear’. Theresa May and Boris Johnson would have agreed. They approved the MI6 operation to spy on Trump in September 2016 and also renewed the spying AFTER the US election, all the time knowing the FISA warrants were based on Skripals’s dossier. I believe that the ‘D’ notices were to prevent further disclosure of Johnson and May’s involvement.

       The only problem was to make sure he ‘disappeared’ in a way that ensured nobody would later try to find him. For example: a couple of people collapsed on a park bench, who were said to have ‘died’ in hospital a few days later, would have been a local newspaper story and anyone looking for Sergei would end the search with a local newspaper obituary.

       Once Sergei was ‘dead’ Steele could go to the US and tell the Senate committees that the original source of the dossier was a credible former spy, who has sadly since died. With Skripal alive, he can’t do that…

       One of the few things we know for sure is that the Skripals have disappeared. I suggest that that was the intention from the start and it went to plan until Monday morning when DS Bailey drove himself to hospital, which got picked up by the national press starting the media circus and the ridiculous cover story started.

       1. Paul,
          Part of the issue, and the lack of main stream media enthusiasm is the active DSMA ( formerly D notices) in effect. Early in the Skripal saga the media were sent a reminder of the standing DSMA notices which are constantly in effect. This was a warning “don’t mess with this”. Pablo Miller et al, were of course known, but cannot be printed. (Although I have just done so.) This had lead me to focus on the “how” rather than the “why”.

          1. Duncan,
             I understand what you are saying but if my suggestion of ‘why’ is correct, the ‘how’ is easy – all you need is a couple of patsies – people easily bribed with a bit of cash. “Take this red bag and walk to the park bench. When you pass the gym, we will see you and know you are on schedule – make sure the bag is visible on the ground. Wait on the bench until a man and his daughter approach you. Then get up and walk away, leaving the bag behind.”

             The patsies, of course, did not know that they were to be the ‘victims’. When they walked by the gym the ‘poisoner’ got into position and sprayed them (non-lethal) when they arrived at the bench. A few minutes later Freya Church identified the patsies on the bench as the ones on the CCTV. In the meantime the Skripals were whisked away (in the helicopter? It did not transmit whilst involved in the incident) and disappeared. The patsies quickly recovered after a night in hospital and went home. The local newspaper picked up the story as a drug incident.

             Sergei had kept copies of the dossier and drafts as an insurance file. When he was happy that MI5/6 had not double-crossed him, he told DS Bailey where the file was hidden. DS Bailey went to the house and destroyed the file.

             The Skripals had disappeared. Everything had gone to plan until DS Bailey drove himself to hospital on Monday morning.

53. Rob, Another Scenario

    What if the young chap was mistaken? Could it be that couple feeding the ducks was not the Skripals but actually the Amesbury twosome? This might be why the QEG park was sealed off last weekend when the supposed drug addict/alcoholic couple fell ill.
    The police then closed the QEG because they had earlier footage from March which showed the boy and the Amesbury two in that location.
    It was never a place of interest as far as the Skripal trail was concerned, that Sunday in March.
    However, as the boy required testing, and his clothes required burning, it was immediately a place of police interest as far as nerve agent was concerned.
    This concern re-manifested itself when the Amesbury couple fell ill, and that is why QEG was immediately closed off last weekend.
    The Amesbury couple and the boy were identified in March, but like the “other” couple in the CCTV picture, with the red bag, this line of inquiry was never pursued in public.
    Why no police “people of interest”, can the public help identify these two. etc.

    Because all along they were known, and the Sun report was a bit bothersome as it did not fit the official narrative.

54. The obvious answer is that Sergei chucked the novichok container into the water along with the bread.
    They went to pub then Zizzis. So where did he get the bread? Presumably Zizzis. In a restaurant in UK it is not normal to ask for a doggy bag, and nobody would do it for bread. Plus we know he was agitated and in a hurry. Getting the bread was deliberate act.
    The Skripals went to the cemetery. IMO to say last goodbyes to mother and son prior to suicide.
    The motive was revenge on Russia for as they saw it killing mother and son. Sergei knew the blowback his death would cause.
    Yulia brought novichok with her from a stash he had whilst in Soviet military intelligence.
    The drought caused container to become exposed, found by Dawn.
    It is amazing not one journalist would track down this family and ask them more details – like where it was.

    1. The DM article explains it was the garlic bread from Zizzis. It also names the park as “Avon Playground” which Google maps has as the small green space adjacent to the bench.
       The container could have gone downstream again the drought revealing it in QEG.

       1. So, the Skripals ate some garlic bread while waiting for their rissotto and took what was left with them. They used some of it to feed ducks and gave more to 3 boys who spotted them, one of whom “ate the slice handed to him”. Err… just how big is a portion of bread in Zizzis? Sounds like Sergei was only a couple of fish short of ‘feeding the five thousand’.

          The 3 May DM article contains several errors – and for some reason mentions a “highly-durable poison” when others have said it is unstable and degrades readily in humid weather. Eight weeks after everyone had been told a baby-wipe was all they needed, it speaks about ‘specialist cleaning’ – twice! Anyone would be forgiven for thinking the article is a plant, intended to start to change the narrative about the nature of the poison, so that a second incident could happen a few weeks later. Oh,… wait..

       2. Hi Rob
          Thanks for all your hard work you are doing an excellent job. Perhaps people unfamiliar with Salisbury need to know that no container could be washed downstream from either part of the river running adjacent to the Maltings bench location because there are heavy duty grills that catch all debris before the sluice next to the Mill pub. Therefore if such a container was put into the river could only be disposed of by the pub (very public – unlikely) or in QEG.

          Perhaps others are right and those of us concerned locally should seriously think of organising in order to methodically contact all the local witnesses.

          Kind regards

          1. Thanks very much Suzie. Very interesting that you are local. If you get time, and if you have any thoughts, I would be interested in hearing whether you have any sense of what Salisbury people in general think about all of this. Are they buying the Official Story, or do they think it is hocus pocus?

             Rob

          2. Can anyone in Salisbury confirm whether there were ducks on the river near the park bench in early March, or if they were ever a regular feature at that location? The reason I ask is that a New York Times report from Salisbury in June said that the ducks had apparently disappeared from there. That makes me wonder if people just assumed that the ducks were there before because of the media reports about Sergei and the boys feeding them there.

             “Others fret about the ducks that used to gather on the Avon River near where the Skripals collapsed, saying they must have been quietly culled. (Mr. Dean, the City Council head, says they simply migrated downstream.) ”
             https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/16/world/europe/uk-skripal-russia-salisbury-propaganda.html

             Ducks can’t just paddle effortlessly through the town if the river is blocked by grills and sluice gates. There’s nothing stopping them from walking or flying some of the way, but they might be put off from gathering near the park if the barriers stop them moving as freely as in QEG. I see from Google Earth that there’s something like a sluice gate further north as well on one part of the river where it forks off.

             BTW Rob, the New York Times reporter also spoke to some locals about what they thought of the official story. To summarise, there is some doubt but most people trust the government and believe what it tells them. I assume that there is more doubt since the Amesbury incident, since the ‘discarded container’ theory makes the official story even more complicated and therefore harder to believe.

55. “Aiden Cooper, 12, was playing in a park with pals when they saw Skripal and daughter Yulia beside a stream.”

    “Aiden with his parents by the pond where he spoke to Skripal”

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5916870/schoolboy-salisbury-nerve-agent-attack/

    A pond is a stream is a pond?

    Journalists and photographers tend to “decorate” reality to let it appear more interesting. Is it possible the picture was taken later “by the pond” in Queen Elizabeth Gardens, because “beside a stream” (the Avon) didn’t look picturesque enough? Has anybody actually asked the familiy, where they met the Skripals? And was the answer really “Elizabeth Gardens”?

    1. My thought exactly.

56. Wanted to send this privately, so please delete. ‘Avon’ is not Old English. Old English is the language of the Anglo-Saxons. It’s safe to call it Celtic (or Brythonic)

    1. Thanks Pyotr. I have corrected it.

       Rob

57. Is there any chance we could get a timeline and map on this?. I am confused with all these movements of Skripal’s, drug attics, police, special branch agents, kids, ducks, etc. etc. A mysterious red back that seems to appear out of thin air. I’ll have to spend some time on google maps tomorrow to familiarize myself with the area.

    Regardless, keep up the good work.

58. That would be the time when Skripals’ phone was switched off – ie morning?
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5893197/russia-spy-mobile-mystery-skripal/

    So why did they come after two weeks for the boy? Surely, there is no video surveillance in the park?

    Because Skripals told them?

    Why did they not cordon off Elizabeth Garden? Because they did not want the people using the hideout for communicating with Skripal to know that they know? That Skripals were alive to tell them?

    When did Yulia make her phone call – two weeks after this?

    1. Yulia’s VK account (Russian Facebook) was accessed on 7 March but the phonecall to her aunt was at 10:30am (Moscow time) on 4 April.

59. Rob, A really excellent spot! Congratulations.

    From memory, there was more than one child who took bread from the Skripals to feed the ducks, One of them even ate some of the bread because he/she was hungry.

    How long would it take to walk from the restaurant to the duck pond and then back to the bench? We know that Freya Church was on CCTV, leaving the gym, just after 4:00pm and said the couple were on the bench as she walked past. How much time could they have had at the pond to fit in with the timetable?

    Also, where would the Skripals have got the bread? Take out from the restaurant, bread seller at the pond etc.? (I don’t expect you to have the answer!)

    Also, I have always thought the duck-feeding part of the story indicates people with time on their hands. Why has the agitation in the restaurant turned into peaceful duck-feeding? I wonder if his agitation in the restaurant might have been because he wanted people to remember seeing him there.

    1. Because using his tradecraft he wanted to chuck something in the river but have a plausible explanation for it.

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